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Smokgineer
01-14-2013, 07:38 PM
I am mainly a lurker on the forum and spend most of my time reading posts and trying to learn something new from those with much more experience. But in this case I feel that sharing is something that someone may find a small amount of value in (read very small if you like). I am not trying to insight problems, and if you disagree please enlighten me.

I joined KCBS last summer when I took a CBJ class with intentions of judging/competing someday. That being said I am mainly a backyard cook who is a KCBS member. It is clear that KCBS is a sanctioning body, but what about the average joe. There are few benefits in being a member if you don't compete, judge or rep. Restaurant depot is great, but Costco, Sams or even the local butcher or internet can easily replace it for the backyard cook. I was disappointed to see minimal BOD candidates advocating for this segment of members. Those that did, only referred to the community as a whole. I did vote, but doubt I will re-up my membership and vote again as KCBS seems to only cater to those who are involved in competition in some way. The BOD candidates seemed to reiterate and support this notion.

It seems to me that if KCBS really wants to become a "community" for BBQ'ers of all types, it would make sense to pay as much attention to the greater BBQ community as they do to the competition community.

Just my 2 cents. I thought I would share my overall disappointment with joining KCBS as a non-competing member. I think my money would be better spent on a subscription here, which is exactly what I plan on doing rather than rejoining KCBS.

(mods can move this to "for the board" per http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-119131.html if they wish, but I am really not addressing them as much as the other members)

Pappy Q
01-14-2013, 07:49 PM
KCBS is an organization for sanctioning BBQ competitions. That's going to be the main focus. What were your expectations?

landarc
01-14-2013, 07:54 PM
I remember some time ago, KCBS was out there saying they were promoting BBQ, and the BBQ lifestyle or some such thing. Claiming they were raising awareness of BBQ. Not mentioning that it was all about competitions.

Now, I happen to think there has been a lot of good out of the promotions that KCBS has done, so that while I think they have not exactly promoted BBQ in general, the fallout has been an overall plus for backyard cookers (which is what I am). There are loads of newer cookers, charcoals, rubs and sauces, a whole lot more awareness of BBQ in general, and all of that is, at least in part, from KCBS and comp BBQ.

Smokgineer
01-14-2013, 07:59 PM
KCBS is an organization for sanctioning BBQ competitions. That's going to be the main focus. What were your expectations?

I understand this and even mentioned it in my post. But, the KCBS mission says,"Recognizing barbeque as America's Cuisine, the mission of the Kansas City Barbeque Society is to celebrate, teach, preserve and promote barbeque as a culinary technique, sport and art form." I do not see the word competition mentioned once. It may be implied by sport but many many more people are interested in the celebrate, teach, preserve and promotion of the culinary technique than the sport or competition. If just one BOD candidate had said that they wanted to teach or promote with the lay member I may have felt differently.

dmprantz
01-14-2013, 08:04 PM
KCBS membership is honestly a waste of money if you don't shop at RD, stay at their brand of hotels, or compete in Sam's Club. They require it to be a "Certified" judge, but don't require any CEUs like a real certification program. They don't require it to be a competitor, but they punish you more harshly if you aren't one. If you want to vote, you have to pay, but if you don't care about it, don't get suckered in.

A lot of people on this forum will tell you that you should pay because it's like a union or because you use the services or they are lifetime members so they think you should too. It's all BS. As a competitor, you pay when you compete. If they want you to be a member, make them earn that $35 a year, not guilt trip you into it. Or step up and act like a real company and require membership instead of hiding behind 501(c)(3) status.

Yeah, I'm a bit bitter, but I've got every right to be. Every time I've paid to be a member, I've gotten hosed by the KCBS, promised bennefits that weren't there. Then at the end I get hosed even worse for garbage. I saw look at the bennefits and pay for them or not, but don't let a few people here guilt trip you into it. A large percentage of the money they make gets given away anyway (fact).

dmp

Eggspert
01-14-2013, 08:56 PM
I agree. If you don't plan to compete or participate as a CBJ, there is no reason to renew your membership. If you are thinking you would like to do either of these activities then it is worth it.

There is something to be said about supporting an organization that supports something you love to do, but I understand that times are tough.

dmprantz
01-14-2013, 09:09 PM
There is something to be said about supporting an organization that supports something you love to do.

To be clear and honest, KCBS doesn't "support" competition BBQ. They charge money to proliferate it. They market and merchendise it. Then they give that money away. There's a difference. They charge organizers a fee to sanction. They charge teams (through organizers) a fee to compete, and then they charge judges a fee to be "certified" on the promise that it will help them get picked to judge, with nothing in return. They sell merchendise for a profit, and they attract marketing deals with partners that bring in more money, some of which bring more money into the organization.

To me, the people who SUPPORT competition BBQ are the teams, the organizers, and the judges. KCBS is just money making machine, who gives the money, not back to the teams and judges, but to charities. They used to guratentee prize purses, but then they had one issue, and they decided it was best to pretend prize purses don't exist. They used to help teams get into The Royal, but they decided that it didn't help the Sam's Club series, and they stopped that just long enough to screw the pooch. I know there are charities who appreciate the money, but let's not pretend that they GIVE much of anything to Competition BBQ, k?

dmp

dmprantz
01-14-2013, 09:12 PM
Like I said, I'm bitter, but nothing I've written above is untrue. If KCBS would like to rectify any of the issues I've mentioned, I'd love for them to do so. Give back to those who made you. Stop selling out to corporate sponsors, and stop playing favourites for members who add to your bottom line. I guess today isn't the best day for me to sugar coat things with this group. I'm sure it will hurt me with those who want nothing more than peace and money, but sometimes doing right feels better than getting into some one's good graces. I welcome arguments to the contrary rather than back room deals.

dmp

Smokgineer
01-14-2013, 09:16 PM
I agree. If you don't plan to compete or participate as a CBJ, there is no reason to renew your membership. If you are thinking you would like to do either of these activities then it is worth it. Tts

There is something to be said about supporting an organization that supports something you love to do, but I understand that times are tough.

The problem is I would like to compete, albeit only 1-2 contests a year. I have at least 5 this year all within a few miles of my house. I may pursue a Minnesota BBQ society membership just so I don't feel like a total leach, but I think the KCBS is missing the boat when choosing not to promote to, educate, and include the average backyard guy. I have read the bull sheet and while I thought it would be pretty valuable it seems to be mostly ads and of little value to the backyard guy.

TooSaucedToPork
01-14-2013, 09:21 PM
I can think of 30 other Barbeque organizations. Jump ship and join one. KCBS is just one of many, and like any group, each has its own personality. Mindsets are different in each of the sanctioning organizations I have cooked in.

Maybe one of them will be a better fit.

Smokgineer
01-14-2013, 09:22 PM
I can think of 30 other Barbeque organizations. Jump ship and join one. KCBS is just one of many, and like any group, each has its own personality. Mindsets are different in each of the sanctioning organizations I have cooked in.

Maybe one of them will be a better fit.

Thanks! I agree. Read my edit above.

dmprantz
01-14-2013, 09:27 PM
The problem is I would like to compete, albeit only 1-2 contests a year.

If you compete, you pay. Why pay more on top of it for nothing in return?

I have read the bull sheet and while I thought it would be pretty valuable it seems to be mostly ads and of little value to the backyard guy.

Exactly. Anyway, pay attention to who writes the articles. I haven't gotten it in a while, but it used to be a bunch of fluff written by the office staff, some of which caused current KCBS board members to send public letters of complaint to the org. They've had some turnover, but is it worth keeping that in your mailbox?

dmp

motoeric
01-14-2013, 09:48 PM
Unless the event you want to compete at is a Sam's Club event, you don't have to be a KCBS member.

I had mixed feelings reading this thread. I feel that the KCBS is, in general, a positive for BBQ.

When I read the OP, my immediate thoughts were that you can't fault the KCBS for not succeeding at something that they aren't attempting.

Then I read the quote that seems to declare their mission statement "Recognizing barbeque as America's Cuisine, the mission of the Kansas City Barbeque Society is to celebrate, teach, preserve and promote barbeque as a culinary technique, sport and art form." and I changed my mind.

Then I changed it back again when I realized that the quote was puffery, akin to Burger King stating that it has the juiciest burgers in the business.

If part of your goal is to support an organization that supports BBQ and promotes the preservation of our native cuisine, I highly suggest that you purchase a BBQ Brethren subscription. It's not a lot of money, expands your options here at the forum and helps pay for the overhead.

Eric

Balls Casten
01-14-2013, 10:09 PM
I would like. To say it is a damn nice organization. I renewed my membership this year.

Smokgineer
01-14-2013, 10:44 PM
Then I changed it back again when I realized that the quote was puffery, akin to Burger King stating that it has the juiciest burgers in the business.
Eric

I would like to quote something I read a long time ago when I first joined this site. It is one of the reasons I joined here and is in similar fashion to the KCBS. It is found at this link: http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14668

"Welcome to the BBQ Brethren. We are an Online BBQ community dedicated to the teaching, promoting and growth of the Art of BBQ. We are here for both the backyard enthusiast and seasoned veteran. We have membership ranging from the Backyard to the American Royal. Our goal: To help anyone who comes in to make the best BBQ they ever produced, whether it be for your family, your friends or the KCBS judge,and at the same time, build lasting friendships and a commaraderie that makes us stand out from other internet forums."

You say the KCBS mission statement is fluff but when a proper mission statement is drafted, and pursued, I think we can all see and feel what the effects are. I find that I have learned more here because of the mentality of the members to encourage teaching, learning, and promoting BBQ than all the bull sheets I could get my hands on.

I think KCBS should be held accountable to what they publish as a mission. The only way I can have a voice is by with-holding membership because it does seem to be a priority to the BoD candidates. This was the point I was trying to make in my Initial post. IMHO this should be a priority of KCBS.

CBQ
01-14-2013, 11:30 PM
"Welcome to the BBQ Brethren. We are an Online BBQ community dedicated to the teaching, promoting and growth of the Art of BBQ. We are here for both the backyard enthusiast and seasoned veteran. We have membership ranging from the Backyard to the American Royal. Our goal: To help anyone who comes in to make the best BBQ they ever produced, whether it be for your family, your friends or the KCBS judge,and at the same time, build lasting friendships and a commaraderie that makes us stand out from other internet forums."

You say the KCBS mission statement is fluff but when a proper mission statement is drafted, and pursued, I think we can all see and feel what the effects are.

BBQ Brethren really exists for the purpose of their mission statement.

I really believe KCBS does, in a way too. They do promote BBQ, their primary method of doing that is by supporting and encouraging competition BBQ. A solid network of contests does promote the sport. One could also argue that national sponsors and media attention does as well.

Would BBQ Pitmasters exist without KCBS? Maybe...or maybe not. Could you promote BBQ in a different way? Sure, but these are the methods KCBS has chosen to use, and I think it's hard to argue with the results. BBQ is getting more attention, and KCBS is a contributor to that.

As the end of the day though, KCBS is a 501(c)3 corporation. The IRS narrowly defines what a 501(c)3 is, and the closest match for what KCBS is all about is an educational charity. The IRS even suggests in their own documentation that an educational charity mission is the right direction to go for a hobbyist organization that wishes to become a 501(c)3. You have to have a public mission to be a 501(c)3, and providing public services, giving away money (a foundation), or providing education are pretty much the only ways to do it.

The KCBS mission statement and bylaws are carefully written to comply with IRS guidelines for a 501(c)3 (as is any public charity), so you have to read them through that lens.

CivilWarBBQ
01-15-2013, 02:22 AM
Or you could truly take up your chosen banner and *be* that voice of the backyard cook at KCBS by running for the Board yourself. Now is the time to start stumping the circuit for the 2014 election!

For myself, I find the small fee of KCBS membership delivers a great deal more benefit than many other organizations I've given to over the years. But then I'm a pro cook, CBJ and contest organizer, so the focus on competition suits me.

TooSaucedToPork
01-15-2013, 05:28 AM
Or you could truly take up your chosen banner and *be* that voice of the backyard cook at KCBS by running for the Board yourself. Now is the time to start stumping the circuit for the 2014 election!

For myself, I find the small fee of KCBS membership delivers a great deal more benefit than many other organizations I've given to over the years. But then I'm a pro cook, CBJ and contest organizer, so the focus on competition suits me.

+1 be a Change Champion and develop a program from the inside.

timzcardz
01-15-2013, 07:13 AM
Unless the event you want to compete at is a Sam's Club event, you don't have to be a KCBS member.

I had mixed feelings reading this thread. I feel that the KCBS is, in general, a positive for BBQ.

When I read the OP, my immediate thoughts were that you can't fault the KCBS for not succeeding at something that they aren't attempting.

Then I read the quote that seems to declare their mission statement "Recognizing barbeque as America's Cuisine, the mission of the Kansas City Barbeque Society is to celebrate, teach, preserve and promote barbeque as a culinary technique, sport and art form." and I changed my mind.

Then I changed it back again when I realized that the quote was puffery, akin to Burger King stating that it has the juiciest burgers in the business.

If part of your goal is to support an organization that supports BBQ and promotes the preservation of our native cuisine, I highly suggest that you purchase a BBQ Brethren subscription. It's not a lot of money, expands your options here at the forum and helps pay for the overhead.

Eric

Eric, it had better not be puffery when they declare this to the IRS on their tax return in support of their not-for-profit status!

http://www.cal-lector.com/Brethren/KCBS2008990-2.JPG

DawgPhan
01-15-2013, 08:22 AM
Like I said, I'm bitter, but nothing I've written above is untrue. If KCBS would like to rectify any of the issues I've mentioned, I'd love for them to do so. Give back to those who made you. Stop selling out to corporate sponsors, and stop playing favourites for members who add to your bottom line. I guess today isn't the best day for me to sugar coat things with this group. I'm sure it will hurt me with those who want nothing more than peace and money, but sometimes doing right feels better than getting into some one's good graces. I welcome arguments to the contrary rather than back room deals.

dmp


you might be right, but you are no martyr.

DawgPhan
01-15-2013, 08:29 AM
Or you could truly take up your chosen banner and *be* that voice of the backyard cook at KCBS by running for the Board yourself. Now is the time to start stumping the circuit for the 2014 election!

For myself, I find the small fee of KCBS membership delivers a great deal more benefit than many other organizations I've given to over the years. But then I'm a pro cook, CBJ and contest organizer, so the focus on competition suits me.


the guy is in MN...you really think there is a snowball chance he gets elected to the board. Doesnt compete, doesnt judge, doesnt organize, and I doubt he is a Walton. Seems like a tough road to hoe.

identifying an issue and having the time, talent, and treasure to fix it are 2 totally different things.

dmprantz
01-15-2013, 08:29 AM
you might be right, but you are no martyr.

My point is that there will be some who read that (or already have) and will take to take action against me, or fail to take action for me, because I don't support the organization. I've been told that multiple times already. That's the kind of thing that isn't scaring me right now.

dmp

dmprantz
01-15-2013, 10:06 AM
Eric, it had better not be puffery when they declare this to the IRS on their tax return in support of their not-for-profit status!

What "education of barbecue cooking" does KCBS have? Does selling BBQ cookbooks for profit count? This is an honest question?

dmp

Scottie
01-15-2013, 11:27 AM
Or you could truly take up your chosen banner and *be* that voice of the backyard cook at KCBS by running for the Board yourself. Now is the time to start stumping the circuit for the 2014 election!

For myself, I find the small fee of KCBS membership delivers a great deal more benefit than many other organizations I've given to over the years. But then I'm a pro cook, CBJ and contest organizer, so the focus on competition suits me.


Bingo. Well stated, Gowan.

carlyle
01-15-2013, 12:16 PM
My 2 cents worth from a fellow Minnesotan.

At our contest I have seen active participation, help, guidance, and encouragement for both our backyard contestants and our Kids Q participants and parents from our KCBS Reps.

2 of those Reps are Don Harwell and David Londeen - both running for the BOD.

Both agree that backyard is a feeder program for the KCBS contests so they willingly participate in those parts of our events.

Actions speak louder than words. You may not have heard the campaign rhetoric that you were looking for. But I have seen the interest and the actions at work that demonstrate their commitment .

KCBS is worthy in my book. Not perfect. The place to make change is from the inside working within the system, not outside.

MN BBQ Society is a great place to be. You would be most welcome there. Our annual banquet is Jan 26th. Time enough to join and come have a good time with us.There are cooks, judges, and organizers all working together to make BBQ better in MN.
Oh, and David Londeen is President of MN BBQ Society.

What ever you decide to do, please stay active and stay vocal.

nukenight
01-15-2013, 12:45 PM
I think you have hit the nail on the head. As a judge who cooks occasionally, I find myself asking the same question about the value of KCBS membership. I've been a member since 2003 and am having a difficult time with the notion of membership. Why should I pay to join something where the benefits are minimal? You are asking the right question. If I was you, I'd dump KCBS and then get involved in your local BBQ group. In my case, we are very pro-active in Louisiana about helping new cooks. We have a Best Head Cook program where we give out prizes and money (hopefully soon) to the best new head cook. In fact, one of our new head cooks (first year cooking at contests) was GRAND CHAMPION at one of our bigger contests! This is where local BBQ groups really shine. They typically know the lay of the land and know what is needed at the local level.

Candy Sue
01-15-2013, 02:07 PM
I probably should slap my fingers off the keyboard! <<I hear you, Jorge...>>

KCBS gives back plenty. Ask the kids of KCBS members who applied for and received a grants in aid to help pay for their education. Ask the organizations who received grant money to further their missions, from a kids' group buying cookers to senior Q. Things like this aren't shouted from the rooftops and not near as interesting as slinging dirt around.

KCBS provides a framework for organizers to put together contests, officials to officiate the contests, trained judges who know the judging method and structure for the cooks competing. $35 a year gives you the Bullsheet every month that's less than $3 for each issue. I don't use any of the other member discounts, but I may sometime.

Those of you who do not know me, I admit up front I AM BIASED towards KCBS. I have served it's members for 2 years and 11 months on the board of directors and I have been president for the last year and 11 months. KCBS isn't perfect, but it provides the structure and method for a pastime I enjoy very much.

Smokin' Hicks
01-15-2013, 02:11 PM
I am not very smart but, I thought the KCBS was primarily for those who compete, judge, or rep. If you took the competitors, judges, and reps out of the mix for KCBS would there even really be a reason for the KCBS? As mentioned above the KCBS is a BBQ sanctioning body that sanctions BBQ competitions and this is the reason why competitors, judges, and reps. get the just of the attention within that sanctioning body.

Scottie
01-15-2013, 02:26 PM
I will stand on a chair and say it. the KCBS has awarded my foundation Grants and it is much appreciated by myself that they believe in me and my cause enough to support it.

Not sure if I am supposed to announce that. But I can tell you that it makes me swell with pride that they do it for us. I believe enough in the KCBS that I am now a lifetime member.

Cast Iron Chef
01-15-2013, 03:36 PM
KCBS is making more available to the backyard cooks. They are sanctioning grilling contests. These are 1 day burger, steak, wings contests. We held one here in las Vegas and Whiskey Ranch in AZ will have a few this year. Lower entry fees and a great chance for backyarders to get the feel and excitement of a cooking competition.

paydabill
01-15-2013, 03:43 PM
You Know I go through this every year when my membership and/or a vote for BOD comes up. In the end I pay my membership.

I do not shop at RD (not one near me), I do not stay at the hotels (can get a better deal on the Internet).

Is the Bullsheet worth it, hard to say - can find a lot of the information on the Internet.

The BOD has been a disapointment for me. I voted last year on change - I have not seen much of that.

In the end I pay, because when friends of mine put on events - they get the support of the KCBS and the rules are clear, and when I compete it is at even as possible.

Just imagine what competition would be like without the rules we have in place - cook a backyard once and watch the mayor win (the same guy who ate 1/2 of a slab of your ribs saying how great they are).

Pappy Q
01-15-2013, 03:50 PM
If you don't like what an organization does either work to change it from within or don't be a part of the organization. No one is forcing anyone to join or stay joined. It's $35/year for Gods sake. If it's not worth it to you, move on an quit complaining about it.

dmprantz
01-15-2013, 04:04 PM
If you don't like what an organization does either work to change it from within or don't be a part of the organization. No one is forcing anyone to join or stay joined. It's $35/year for Gods sake. If it's not worth it to you, move on an quit complaining about it.

I agree. Those people with their silly opinions should just keep them to themselves! How dare any one suggest that things aren't as good as they should be. We should all give money hand-over-fist so that they can give it away to some one else. Any one who disagrees with us doesn't deserve to have a voice. Cut their tongues out! Break their fingers so they can't talk! Find a way to keep them away from the rest of us!

dmp

Big Poppa
01-15-2013, 04:10 PM
Maybe some are tired of your rants over KCBS? We all know how you feel...most know you are suspended....

I get my $35 dollars worth. Im happy. Im going to the banquet and gonna have a blast.

Cloudsmoker
01-15-2013, 04:18 PM
Here's a good example that agrees with your point. I once was a fairly serious tennis player. The United States Tennis Association covers the whole gamut - from recreational leagues to the U.S. Open. Gives the whole association a much different tenor.

dmprantz
01-15-2013, 04:18 PM
I don't feel I've ranted in this thread, but if expressing an opinion and clarifying facts counts as one, color me guilty. Most also know that I was punished for the actions of some one else. I'm glad you feel you get value out of your $35 Sterling. As I've said before, you're welcomed to ignore me. Why do you continue to read what I have to say if you're so tired of it?

dmp

Smokgineer
01-15-2013, 04:19 PM
I probably should slap my fingers off the keyboard! <<I hear you, Jorge...>>

KCBS gives back plenty. Ask the kids of KCBS members who applied for and received a grants in aid to help pay for their education. Ask the organizations who received grant money to further their missions, from a kids' group buying cookers to senior Q. Things like this aren't shouted from the rooftops and not near as interesting as slinging dirt around.

KCBS provides a framework for organizers to put together contests, officials to officiate the contests, trained judges who know the judging method and structure for the cooks competing. $35 a year gives you the Bullsheet every month that's less than $3 for each issue. I don't use any of the other member discounts, but I may sometime.

Candy,

I am happy to hear that you are comfortable with the membership where it is, but it disappoints me that KCBS would not work towards growing membership with the thousands, if not millions, of casual backyard BBQ enthusiasts. You say KCBS gives back plenty, but as a member I have never heard anything about any charitable giving aside from the Jan bullsheet where the grants in aid application was hiding between some ads. It is not my intention to attack or shame the KCBS, but the response that I have gotten not only from you but many others, affirms my suspicion that KCBS is not a the community orientated, education focused, and charitable organization it's mission statement spouts, and I expected it to be. So many others have already said what the true mission is of KCBS, it is not to teach, not to preserve, but to sanction BBQ competitions.

I however do take offense to those that seem to think that me asking these questions is some how wasteful of their time. "It is only $35 for God's sake..." I am sorry that I ask why things are the way they are, I am sorry that you don't have the patience or tolerance to answer and have a reasonable conversation. Candy, you are right when you say that KCBS is not perfect. Pappy, I only asked these questions as a fairly new member seeking to understand. You guys can all enjoy your little club...

Big Poppa
01-15-2013, 04:23 PM
Look if its rehashing Harry Soo or diving into any KCBS site with the same venom...you are sadly predictable and yes I will ignore you.

I wonder who has the most ignores here?

ssbbqguy
01-15-2013, 04:26 PM
If someone doesn't like something, leave it alone. I will say when you start getting flip with Candy or Sterling, you are clueless. Calling it a little club is foolish and childish also. As pointed out if you don't like things, make an effort to change them in the proper way. Not keyboard attention to yourselves. Don't like things move on. No big deal, just don't whine and not expect an earfull. Steve.

Robert
01-15-2013, 04:32 PM
As sorta said above, no one is holding you at gun point to force you to re-new your membership. If you can't perceive a value in membership, then don't let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya!!!

Perhaps KCBS should restate their mission statement. Or perhaps not.

When I became a member in 1995, there were about 45 KCBS sanctioned cook-offs. There were a few state or regional societies that I remember, Gobs, PNWA and maybe NEBS. No bbq related TV shows. Where are we today? How many different bbq societies, TV shows and KCBS cook-offs are there presently? I'm sure we can hand some credit to MIM(MBN) IBCA, FFA, FBLA, VICA, DECA, :blah::blah::blah:etc, but I'm getting off track. I would say that most of the credit for the proliferation of this BBQ craze should go to KCBS. And along with that, as stated above, is a proliferation of BBQ products associated with this hobby, sport, sickness. And, along with all of that, a greater BBQ education for the masses. Heck, without this greater education, we might be left scratching our head and wondering what all the rave about Steve Raichlen's Beer Butt Chicken was about.:crazy:

And as said above, the great success of KCBS, has had allowed them to be benevolent towards many different things. Youngster education, more backyard promotions, the Great BBQ tour they have is 3-5 five years old, Senior Que, and even giving to Scottie's Foundation.

So, if there is no perception of value, good luck spending your 35 bucks elsewhere. As a great man once told me, "you can lead a horse to water, but before you push him in, think about how bad a wet horse smells".

YMMV

big brother smoke
01-15-2013, 04:38 PM
I think, if you come to an open forum and complain about an organization to part of it's membership, you are subjected to it's membership's response be it negative or positive.

Fat Freddy
01-15-2013, 04:44 PM
If you don't like what an organization does either work to change it from within or don't be a part of the organization. No one is forcing anyone to join or stay joined. It's $35/year for Gods sake. If it's not worth it to you, move on an quit complaining about it.

I was going to stay out of this but i dont think what was said is fair. I am a KCBS member, supporter, judge and cook. First some people have to watch every dollar spent and to say " It's $35/year for Gods sake" just blows my mind. My opinion only but $35 is $35. If this organization is only for people that have money, Then the KCBS as a society has bigger problems than I thought.

Second if no one has the right to question/or complain then why do we have elections for the board at all? i mean isnt it different people with different views? Granted some are more vocal than others.

I personally wish I would hear more of the charitable work the KCBS does. To me the bullsheet is the perfect place for stories like that and I would very much like to read them. I know they are done but it would still be nice to read articles on them.

Scottie
01-15-2013, 04:56 PM
Maybe some are tired of your rants over KCBS? We all know how you feel...most know you are suspended....

I get my $35 dollars worth. Im happy. Im going to the banquet and gonna have a blast.


Can i get a new tshirt? Mine is worn out from wearing it so much...

See you friday! :-P

Eggspert
01-15-2013, 05:04 PM
The problem is I would like to compete, albeit only 1-2 contests a year. I have at least 5 this year all within a few miles of my house. I may pursue a Minnesota BBQ society membership just so I don't feel like a total leach, but I think the KCBS is missing the boat when choosing not to promote to, educate, and include the average backyard guy. I have read the bull sheet and while I thought it would be pretty valuable it seems to be mostly ads and of little value to the backyard guy.

You will have to check for sure, but I think you have to be a KCBS member to participate in KCBS competitions. Am I wrong about that? They are educating the average guy about BBQ. You took a class, you joined KCBS, you know about competition BBQ. KCBS helps raise awareness about BBQ. Whether that's helping get more comps going or whatever else they do.

Just my 2 cents!
Eggspert BBQ

mr dirts bbq
01-15-2013, 05:09 PM
i was going to add my 2 cents but after reading the paragraph i wrote for a response i figured ill shut up delete it and leave this weak response, lol
but i will say there is valid points on both sides of the argument here.

motoeric
01-15-2013, 05:28 PM
What "education of barbecue cooking" does KCBS have? Does selling BBQ cookbooks for profit count? This is an honest question?

dmp

I don't know how intertwined things are between the KCBS and Sam's Club, but the Sam's Club tour has demos (or at least it did at the one I attended).

Eric

motoeric
01-15-2013, 05:39 PM
You will have to check for sure, but I think you have to be a KCBS member to participate in KCBS competitions. Am I wrong about that?

Yes. With the exception of the Sam's Club event, you do not have to be a member of the KCBS to participate in events sanctioned by the KCBS.

Eric

motoeric
01-15-2013, 05:50 PM
I'm rather surprised by the heated responses to the OP.

He seems disappointed by one facet of the KCBS (educating the backyard enthusiast), expressed why and said that he was going to probably not re-up his membership (and instead, get a subscription here). He also questioned the accuracy of the mission statement. Why is this a problem for some?

Seriously, where did he go wrong? I even saw mention of mud slinging. If this was directed towards the OP, I have no idea what was meant by it.

Eric

KevinR
01-15-2013, 06:42 PM
I probably should slap my fingers off the keyboard! <<I hear you, Jorge...>>

KCBS gives back plenty. Ask the kids of KCBS members who applied for and received a grants in aid to help pay for their education. Ask the organizations who received grant money to further their missions, from a kids' group buying cookers to senior Q. Things like this aren't shouted from the rooftops and not near as interesting as slinging dirt around.

KCBS provides a framework for organizers to put together contests, officials to officiate the contests, trained judges who know the judging method and structure for the cooks competing. $35 a year gives you the Bullsheet every month that's less than $3 for each issue. I don't use any of the other member discounts, but I may sometime.

Those of you who do not know me, I admit up front I AM BIASED towards KCBS. I have served it's members for 2 years and 11 months on the board of directors and I have been president for the last year and 11 months. KCBS isn't perfect, but it provides the structure and method for a pastime I enjoy very much.

As a KCBS Member and a somewhat new CBJ... 3 contests and 18 months… it’s always refreshing to see that you (Candy Sue) post on various forums.

That said… I see nothing wrong with the OP. Since KCBS BOD members post here, how difficult is it for any of them to professionally respond to the OP and answer his / her questions? Candy Sue was kind enough to reply.

Maybe some of you more experienced Brethren can assist with further educating the masses about the benefits you enjoy from your KCBS membership.

There is no need for anyone to get so defensive. Several of these of responses are why many “lurk” :icon_shy, instead of joining the conversations. JMHO.

Kevin

Smokgineer
01-15-2013, 07:01 PM
If someone doesn't like something, leave it alone. I will say when you start getting flip with Candy or Sterling, you are clueless. Calling it a little club is foolish and childish also. As pointed out if you don't like things, make an effort to change them in the proper way. Not keyboard attention to yourselves. Don't like things move on. No big deal, just don't whine and not expect an earfull. Steve.

My comment directed towards Candy were not meant to be flip in anyway, merely a response. I apologize to her if they were taken that way. I was genuine in my questions and concerns in this thread. I never whined, and I asked for comments and feedback. Instead, many chose to respond in tones I would construe as disrespectful.

A large organization seeks its members feedback and I was merely choosing to seek input from other potential members. Responding with "if you don't like it leave", and "it is only a $35 bucks" is the attitude of a club, not a professional organization seeking to grow its members. Just my two cents. Sorry to have ruffled so many feathers. I will go back to lurking and making my 0.8 comments per month.

Robert
01-15-2013, 07:40 PM
You obviously didn't see the benefits to membership that I pointed out in my post. So, what would you like to see directed towards the non-competing, non-judging, non-organizing membership persons? A Myron Mixon private lesson? I'm on the other side of members, so I'm asking since you brought it up. And you might notice that I mainly lurk here as well.

Robert

Muzzlebrake
01-15-2013, 08:14 PM
to the OP; I'm sorry you don't see any value in your membership. I'm a competitor so I think being a KCBS member is well worth the $35 annual fee.

While I don't agree "KCBS seems to only cater to those who are involved in competition in some way", I will say that KCBS not only does have a heavy focus on competition, I don't think they in any way try to hide that. If you take a look at the website, the overwhelming majority of content is in some way shape or form about competing.

You said you originally joined with intentions of judging and/or cooking a contest. It sounds as though you have since changed your mind and are considering taking a different approach, which is all fine and well, it is certainly your prerogative. What I don't understand is, why you would be disappointed the organization you joined to become part of the competition process (by either judging or cooking) is focused on the competition community?

RangerJ
01-15-2013, 08:16 PM
With regards to the backyard stuff. Perhaps reach out to Tom and Jennifer Duncan in AZ. They are growing their "Competitor Series" with the help of KCBS.

Its worth the $35 for me to know that when I show up there is somewhat of a standard for how things are going to be done, no matter where I travel to.

All this other stuff, to me, falls into over thinking what is supposed to be a hobby.

Balls Casten
01-15-2013, 08:34 PM
My comment directed towards Candy were not meant to be flip in anyway, merely a response. I apologize to her if they were taken that way. I was genuine in my questions and concerns in this thread. I never whined, and I asked for comments and feedback. Instead, many chose to respond in tones I would construe as disrespectful.

A large organization seeks its members feedback and I was merely choosing to seek input from other potential members. Responding with "if you don't like it leave", and "it is only a $35 bucks" is the attitude of a club, not a professional organization seeking to grow its members. Just my two cents. Sorry to have ruffled so many feathers. I will go back to lurking and making my 0.8 comments per month.

What I find really funny is people were wrong when they misunderstood your questions as disrespectful. But you consider yourself correct when you categorize their comments as disrespectful.

It is wrong to say "There are few benefits in being a member if you don't compete, judge or rep."

sdbbq1234
01-15-2013, 08:44 PM
Sorry to have ruffled so many feathers. I will go back to lurking and making my 0.8 comments per month.


Umm, no!!!!!

WTF!!! It should be obvious that your OP has created some great comments and replies. Everyone has his or her opinion. We all have the choice, one way or another.

I do agree with you OP "It seems to me that if KCBS really wants to become a "community" for BBQ'ers of all types, it would make sense to pay as much attention to the greater BBQ community as they do to the competition community" in that there is not enough stuff related to "BBQ'ing" in general.

We pay our $50.00 per year.

My thought is: If this is going to affect our bank account, or our moral ideas, then we are in more trouble than we know about. FARK IT!!!

I do agree with others and their thoughts and unfortunate outcomes from events. That was stupid.

wallace

BBQchef33
01-15-2013, 09:50 PM
i pay the 50$ a year for my TEAM, with the rationalization that its supporting the body that helps my hobby. This is the same as 25$ to my daughters dance troop or the $100 bucks to my sons boys scouts.

However. I agree that Competition BBQ is more supported by the teams, the judges, the organizers. You dont need KCBS to put on a contest(there are other sanctioing bodies) and its a pretty big nut that an organizer pays to have KCBS onsite. My 48 team contest has nearly a $2000 bill between rep fees and expenses, listing fee and sanctioning(per team) fees. KCBS gets paid to put on the contests, so I doubt any of my 35$ is being used there. We also pay for the judging clases as well as the travel expenses of the instructors.


But the 35 bucks goes to the aforementioned grants and keeping the organization going. To me, its worthwhile, I just dont expect much.



on an admin note.. i see some truly unnecessary venom in this thread.. please let folks voice their opinions, counter civilly, but theres no need to step out attacking them.

boogiesnap
01-15-2013, 10:02 PM
i need to buy a snowmobile.

YankeeBBQ
01-15-2013, 10:13 PM
I'm sorry you feel KCBS does not support your interest in BBQ. No organization can be everything to everyone. I believe the majority of KCBS members are involved in comp bbq in some way, either as cooks, judges, reps or organizers.

With that being said I am curious what a 'backyard barbecuer' is looking for from a bbq organization. What services do you think would be beneficial ? What would give a membership to KCBS value to you ?



I joined KCBS last summer when I took a CBJ class with intentions of judging/competing someday. That being said I am mainly a backyard cook who is a KCBS member. It is clear that KCBS is a sanctioning body, but what about the average joe. There are few benefits in being a member if you don't compete, judge or rep. Restaurant depot is great, but Costco, Sams or even the local butcher or internet can easily replace it for the backyard cook. I was disappointed to see minimal BOD candidates advocating for this segment of members. Those that did, only referred to the community as a whole. I did vote, but doubt I will re-up my membership and vote again as KCBS seems to only cater to those who are involved in competition in some way. The BOD candidates seemed to reiterate and support this notion.

It seems to me that if KCBS really wants to become a "community" for BBQ'ers of all types, it would make sense to pay as much attention to the greater BBQ community as they do to the competition community.

Just my 2 cents. I thought I would share my overall disappointment with joining KCBS as a non-competing member. I think my money would be better spent on a subscription here, which is exactly what I plan on doing rather than rejoining KCBS.

(mods can move this to "for the board" per http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-119131.html if they wish, but I am really not addressing them as much as the other members)

boogiesnap
01-15-2013, 10:27 PM
Maybe some are tired of your rants over KCBS? We all know how you feel...most know you are suspended....

I get my $35 dollars worth. Im happy. Im going to the banquet and gonna have a blast.

i appreciate DMP's opinions and thoughts. always did and still do. i don't think they changed much just because of a misfortune.

with that said, i think if KCBS openly, publicly, and tranparently declared how much money an organizer pays to them per contest and what charities our membership fees are given to and for what there would be much, much less chatter.

at that point, you can do your own math and make your own decision.

i did not renew. if i compete, my entry fee, in part, directly or indirectly, will pay the sanctioning fees and thus fund KCBS,

if i feel like judging, i think the $85+$35 is well worth the opportunity.

boogiesnap
01-15-2013, 10:35 PM
I'm sorry you feel KCBS does not support your interest in BBQ. No organization can be everything to everyone. I believe the majority of KCBS members are involved in comp bbq in some way, either as cooks, judges, reps or organizers.

With that being said I am curious what a 'backyard barbecuer' is looking for from a bbq organization. What services do you think would be beneficial ? What would give a membership to KCBS value to you ?

as has been said in this thread already, steve, KCBS offers little to the backyarder, but that should be understood as a member.

the value for paid service is here(bbqbrethren.com), be it even voluntary....

SaucyWench
01-15-2013, 11:27 PM
I gave my husband a KCBS membership as an anniversary present in 1999, simply because of his love for BBQ. I became a member in 2001 when I enrolled us in a CBJ class, and we are lifetime members now. I admit, the only reason I joined was because I didn't want to wander around aimlessly while he judged, but I wouldn't change a thing.
What are my benefits? Making countless friends and going to places I would have never gone otherwise. I think KCBS has been a community for much longer than most members can imagine.

Jeff_in_KC
01-15-2013, 11:53 PM
I do not disagree that KCBS is competition-centric and while I am in agreement with Steve in that I'd love to hear what anyone's thoughts are on how KCBS can cater more to the needs of the backyard BBQer, I just don't know what that might be that you can't get in other places. My gosh, take a look at the Q-Talk forum here and there's a danged LIFETIME of knowledge and information. But if you have ideas, please send me an email at jstith@kcbs.us and I'll be glad to discuss them with you.

And to the person (don't recall who it was) who said they voted for change and still don't see it on the board, I will say it is not for a lack of trying sometimes. There are three of the four of us left from last year but I believe we've said all along that it may take an election or two to really make a difference. Folks, we are in need of some new ideas all across the slate of KCBS. Whether you run for the board, support someone who is running with good ideas or just want to share your ideas, just do so! I started up a Facebook page for myself JUST to be present and accessible any time. Contact me. It's not up to twelve board members to think of all the good ideas. That's not happening - no matter who is on the board. We rely on members to make suggestions and come to us saying things like "Hey, the other day, I had this really great idea that I'd like to share with you for KCBS and maybe it can be fleshed out into something awesome". Obviously there are those of you with dissatisfaction. Don't just tell me you aren't happy... tell me why and offer some suggestions. Thanks... off my soapbox now.

timzcardz
01-16-2013, 08:23 AM
With that being said I am curious what a 'backyard barbecuer' is looking for from a bbq organization. What services do you think would be beneficial ? What would give a membership to KCBS value to you ?

I do not disagree that KCBS is competition-centric and while I am in agreement with Steve in that I'd love to hear what anyone's thoughts are on how KCBS can cater more to the needs of the backyard BBQer, I just don't know what that might be that you can't get in other places. My gosh, take a look at the Q-Talk forum here and there's a danged LIFETIME of knowledge and information. But if you have ideas, please send me an email at jstith@kcbs.us and I'll be glad to discuss them with you.


I probably should slap my fingers off the keyboard! <<I hear you, Jorge...>>

KCBS gives back plenty. Ask the kids of KCBS members who applied for and received a grants in aid to help pay for their education. Ask the organizations who received grant money to further their missions, from a kids' group buying cookers to senior Q. Things like this aren't shouted from the rooftops and not near as interesting as slinging dirt around.


I was solely a backyard guy, but have now competed for the last 5 years. As input, the thing that pops into my mind is the American Homebrewers Association (AHA). I was a member 20 plus years ago and the thing that was most valuable to me was their magazine, which was packed full of information about brewing, and I assume still is. In comparison, the Bullsheet has very little information about BBQing.

Look at the Smoke Signals magazine put out by The BBQ Brethren. It addresses things that are of interest and importance to both teh competition cook and the backyard cook. Sure you can point to that and say its already available to everyone, but as "America's BBQ Expert" (or whatever that phrase was that they trademarked) why isn't KCBS putting out a publication that addresses ALL of BBQ? Experts are useless if they don't put their expertise to good use.

Also AHA was a voice for legislation, etc., that affected homebrewing. Where is KCBS with respect to BBQ issues such as communities that put restrictions on outdoor cooking, or issues that come up with health departments at competitions, etc.?

Maybe KCBS is involved, but as a member I sure don't know about it.

Whatever KCBS is doing should be shouted from the rooftop! Members are supporting the organization, and KCBS should be shouting about what they are doing in return.

i think if KCBS openly, publicly, and tranparently declared how much money an organizer pays to them per contest and what charities our membership fees are given to and for what there would be much, much less chatter.

If you are that interested in the information, then it is readily available.

Go sign up at http://www.guidestar.org/ and search for KCBS, and you can see the latest tax returns and see where the money is going. Guidestar makes available financial information on not for profit organizations. I usually check out any not-for-profit before I donate. May not get all the detail from a tax return, but you can generally see where the money is coming from and going to.

dmprantz
01-16-2013, 08:43 AM
I wonder who has the most ignores here?

Since we're asking arbitrary questions, I've got one of my own: When the BSA sued you for something that you feel was just a technicality, put you on the news, made a very public example out of you, and you went on your FOSS campaign removing as much proprietary software as possible and "telling any one who would listen" about about how you didn't want Microsoft in your business, would you have decided that your losses didn't mean anything if a random Windows user told you he was tired of hearing about it? And besides, is telling people that they can get by without being a KCBS member really that different from telling people they can get by without buying Microsoft Office?

dmp

bmonkman
01-16-2013, 08:57 AM
I was going to just read this thread and glean from it whatever thoughts and facts I felt useful. However Candy Sue's post, followed by some other borderline vitriolic comments, has prompted me to comment.

There is not doubt in my mind that the KCBS does a great job in supporting BBQ competitions. And while there is some grumbling about the fees charged for sanctioning an event it does seem to me to be reasonably fair. Especially when you consider there are other options out there like MIM and MABA, just to name a couple.

I am not yet a KCBS member and have been seriously considering what value I would get out of joining. I am considering entering BBQ competitions and also taking a CBJ class. My lovely wife is willing to indulge me in this and has expressed a desire to do both with me. (She sure is a keeper!!) I have looked at the KCBS mission statement and was pleased to see there was no apparent bias to support of competitive BBQ. However, there was no obvious, to me, or visible support of the backyard hobbyist.

Candy Sue's post clarified that for me significantly. It was clear, to me, that in her position as President of KCBS her primary interest was to support competitive bbq. She didn't say she was not interested in supporting the backyard hobbyist. But the absence of any statement acknowledging that the backyard hobbyists are important to the KCBS leads me to conclude that they aren't, at least to her. I respect her stated bias and can appreciate where she is coming from. But as a prospective member it has done nothing to encourage me to join. I want any organization I join to be inclusive, not exclusive. And from what I have read in the KCBS mission statement the goal is to be inclusive. So I find that Candy Sue's position hard to reconcile with the KCBS mission statement.

Moving on to the comment about it being only $35 to join. Would it make a difference if the fee was $100, $200, $1,000? Or would it be more reasonable to understand that people want to get value for their money. And if they question the value of what they have rec'd, then perhaps they have a right to question that. Being judgmental only serves to devalue a discussion such as this.

The OP really put himself out there. He had serious questions and he did ask them in a very respectful way. I think he deserves to be treated the same way.

And finally dmp - does he have an axe to grind? Of course he does. Is he justified? I have no idea and frankly I don't think anyone other then dmp or the BOD can answer that question honestly. I think he has as much a right to post his thoughts on issues such as what the OP raised as you or I do. Do I think he goes a tad far at times? Yes. However, I can honestly say if I was in his shoes I would most likely be a lot more emotional and my commentary would not be nearly as measured as his.

So, my 2 cents worth. Nuff said from me on this.

Brian

big brother smoke
01-16-2013, 09:50 AM
Since we're asking arbitrary questions, I've got one of my own: When the BSA sued you for something that you feel was just a technicality, put you on the news, made a very public example out of you, and you went on your FOSS campaign removing as much proprietary software as possible and "telling any one who would listen" about about how you didn't want Microsoft in your business, would you have decided that your losses didn't mean anything if a random Windows user told you he was tired of hearing about it? And besides, is telling people that they can get by without being a KCBS member really that different from telling people they can get by without buying Microsoft Office?

dmp

I think he has you on "ignore" per your request :wink:

Scottie
01-16-2013, 11:13 AM
Low blow Dan. No need to get personal.

dmprantz
01-16-2013, 11:17 AM
Low blow Dan. No need to get personal.

Everything I mentioned is public information, and Sterling has claimed in interviews to be quite happy with where he is as a result. I can only hope to be as satisfied with my situation in 15 years as he is now. My intent was not to get "personal" and dive into private information, but to ask if the similarities between situations might not deserve a closer inspection.

dmp

Candy Sue
01-16-2013, 11:32 AM
...
Candy Sue's post clarified that for me significantly. It was clear, to me, that in her position as President of KCBS her primary interest was to support competitive bbq. She didn't say she was not interested in supporting the backyard hobbyist. But the absence of any statement acknowledging that the backyard hobbyists are important to the KCBS leads me to conclude that they aren't, at least to her. I respect her stated bias and can appreciate where she is coming from. But as a prospective member it has done nothing to encourage me to join. I want any organization I join to be inclusive, not exclusive. And from what I have read in the KCBS mission statement the goal is to be inclusive. So I find that Candy Sue's position hard to reconcile with the KCBS mission statement.

...

Brian

There's one word in the mission statement that encompasses all the competition part -- SPORT. I am very interested in backyard barbequers and backyard competitors (started off as one myself!), but it's the SPORT of BBQ that generates the passion in KCBS members. Unfortunately, that passionate core is probably only 20% or less of the total membership.

My opinion is that reading all the information out there (and there's alot of it) on competition barbeque will make you a better backyard cook. The eaters in my family all agreed that my cooking improved considerable when I became interested in competition barbeque. So, my opinion is that any backyard cook can learn lots from reading about competition.

With that said, I will request that the Bullsheet committee consider more general barbeque cooking material in addition to Paul Kirk's Recipe Xchange.

And, I really appreciate your commments!

Big Poppa
01-16-2013, 11:38 AM
Hey it doesn't matter....

I never questioned anyone's right to speak.. I did point out that many might be tiring of it.

When bad things have happened I have tried to make something good about it....there are 1000's of businesses using open source due to our example.

Same with a health issue that struck a my family.....kids all over the world are on medicines our foundation paid for the research and living near normal lives.

Now,onto the topic....it would be great if a non profit foundation with a board of 12 volunteers could be everything to everybody. I believe bbq is better because of kcbs and further believe that competition bbq is much better because of them. I also believe while I'm at it that people think that they would pay the same per contest if there was no membership revenue are sort of missing a point.

bmonkman
01-16-2013, 11:46 AM
Candy Sue, thanks for your reply.

May I be so bold and suggest that the BOD consider having a standing committee whose would be to develop strategies to promote and foster the art of BBQ in all of it's forms. And that the members of this committee consist board members, competitive bbq'ers and that at least half of the members be non-competitive bbq'ers.

I think if this were to be setup a large part of the concerns raised here would be addressed.

Brian

There's one word in the mission statement that encompasses all the competition part -- SPORT. I am very interested in backyard barbequers and backyard competitors (started off as one myself!), but it's the SPORT of BBQ that generates the passion in KCBS members. Unfortunately, that passionate core is probably only 20% or less of the total membership.

My opinion is that reading all the information out there (and there's alot of it) on competition barbeque will make you a better backyard cook. The eaters in my family all agreed that my cooking improved considerable when I became interested in competition barbeque. So, my opinion is that any backyard cook can learn lots from reading about competition.

With that said, I will request that the Bullsheet committee consider more general barbeque cooking material in addition to Paul Kirk's Recipe Xchange.

And, I really appreciate your commments!

bmonkman
01-16-2013, 11:59 AM
Now,onto the topic....it would be great if a non profit foundation with a board of 12 volunteers could be everything to everybody. I believe bbq is better because of kcbs and further believe that competition bbq is much better because of them. I also believe while I'm at it that people think that they would pay the same per contest if there was no membership revenue are sort of missing a point.

This has nothing to do with what an organization with an all volunteer BOD can or cannot be to everyone. In fact, I think that suggestion is extremely wide of the mark. It has to do with, in my opinion (and perhaps the OP can correct me if I am wrong), a member who feels his expectations were not met and that he wants to be heard. I really do think it boils down to wanting to be heard.

I have always felt that when an organization stops listening to everyone then that is an organization with issues. There really is no reason in my opinion that the orignal OP's issues/concerns could not be addressed. It comes down to resources, priorities and motivation. If the will of the BOD is that something be done about the issues raised here then something will be done. If the BOD feel the backyard hobbyist's interests aren't important to the goals of the organization then nothing will happen.

Now I do have a question because I don't understand what you meant when you said "I also believe while I'm at it that people think that they would pay the same per contest if there was no membership revenue are sort of missing a point." Are you suggesting that KCBS sanctioned events cost the same when it comes to entry fees?

Brian

dmprantz
01-16-2013, 12:11 PM
I never questioned anyone's right to speak.. I did point out that many might be tiring of it.

....there are 1000's of businesses using open source due to our example.

Now,onto the topic....it would be great if a non profit foundation with a board of 12 volunteers could be everything to everybody. I believe bbq is better because of kcbs and further believe that competition bbq is much better because of them. I also believe while I'm at it that people think that they would pay the same per contest if there was no membership revenue are sort of missing a point.

FWIW, I've been a supporter of FOSS for years. I use such programs daily, and have contributed to many of them. I'm also a professional developer who gets paid for that type of work and appreciate that the two are different. Custom software puts food on my table.

Believe it or not, I try to get through my daily posts here on The Brethren without bringing up my situation with KCBS. Most people are aware of it, and I would hate to be a complainer always mentioning it. I didn't even start the two long threads on the topic. If I come across as ranting about that situation, it's not my intent.

I have felt for some time that cooks, competing and otherwise, should not feel obligated to join KCBS. My reasons, without getting into all the details, are well documented and precede my current situation. I feel that there is a lot of peer pressure and bullying on this forum to make people who don't join feel badly, and I don't appreciate that. The topic comes up several times a year without me instigating, and just like one poster always adds to those threads that KCBS helps his foundation, I try to always add that it is not required and people shouldn't feel badly for not re-upping. I've always said that if you appreciate the bennefits, go for it, but it's not worth it "just because." In this particular instance I had a fairly negative interaction with KCBS the day that the OP was made, so I'll admit I may have been a bit further over the top than usual. If I came across that way, I apologize. I tried to keep it factual and not just about me.

dmp

bigabyte
01-16-2013, 12:16 PM
Is it BBQ season yet?

bmonkman
01-16-2013, 12:19 PM
Is it BBQ season yet?

BBQ is always in season. It just depends on how much of a zealot one is. :-P

Big Poppa
01-16-2013, 12:22 PM
This has nothing to do with what an organization with an all volunteer BOD can or cannot be to everyone. In fact, I think that suggestion is extremely wide of the mark. It has to do with, in my opinion (and perhaps the OP can correct me if I am wrong), a member who feels his expectations were not met and that he wants to be heard. I really do think it boils down to wanting to be heard.

I have always felt that when an organization stops listening to everyone then that is an organization with issues. There really is no reason in my opinion that the orignal OP's issues/concerns could not be addressed. It comes down to resources, priorities and motivation. If the will of the BOD is that something be done about the issues raised here then something will be done. If the BOD feel the backyard hobbyist's interests aren't important to the goals of the organization then nothing will happen.

Now I do have a question because I don't understand what you meant when you said "I also believe while I'm at it that people think that they would pay the same per contest if there was no membership revenue are sort of missing a point." Are you suggesting that KCBS sanctioned events cost the same when it comes to entry fees?

Brian

Brian to the people who say that $12 dollar of their entry fee goes to KCBS so they are paying their way Im just saying that the fee would be higher if there were no members.

I have never said that the op didnt have a point...here is someone who posted in the comp section tha he was going to compete...joined kcbs and then changed his mind and wished there were more for the general bbqer.

From there it got ugly....

Things can be improved and you have the president respond twice here...I think that is pretty impressive.

Scottie
01-16-2013, 12:26 PM
Everything I mentioned is public information, and Sterling has claimed in interviews to be quite happy with where he is as a result. I can only hope to be as satisfied with my situation in 15 years as he is now. My intent was not to get "personal" and dive into private information, but to ask if the similarities between situations might not deserve a closer inspection.

dmp


This is where I was coming from, Dan. Ernie Ball is a corporation that Sterling happens to be the CEO of. You have a beef or objection to something that Sterling may have said. No need to drag Ernie Ball the corporation into it. I for one respect what they as a corporation has done to help others. And i also have a huge amount of respect for what Sterling has done for that matter. But at some point there has to be a separation. To dig up something that happened with the corporation over 10 years ago, doesnt really pertain to anything (at least on my opinion) with his remark.

Just some observations

bmonkman
01-16-2013, 12:53 PM
Brian to the people who say that $12 dollar of their entry fee goes to KCBS so they are paying their way Im just saying that the fee would be higher if there were no members.

Thanks for the clarification. I get it now.

I have never said that the op didnt have a point...here is someone who posted in the comp section tha he was going to compete...joined kcbs and then changed his mind and wished there were more for the general bbqer.

From there it got ugly....

It did indeed. The online equivalent to a drive by shooting. My intent wasn't to suggest YOU were saying that. Though I know I did infer that and I shouldn't have. It just irks me to no end how people can throw all kinds of stuff out there without having any consideration of what the intent of the OP was/is. Replying to your message was a handy platform for me to say that. I'm just a dumba$$ at times. My lovely wife would be happy to confirm that.:eusa_clap

Things can be improved and you have the president respond twice here...I think that is pretty impressive.

It is impressive. But as a man much smarter then me would love to say - that and better will do.

Brian

dmprantz
01-16-2013, 01:01 PM
This is where I was coming from, Dan.....

Maybe we should take this off line to discuss further, but Sterling himself has given personal interviews on the topic. Were they given by him as CEO or COB or some such? Maybe, but I was referring to quotes he made personally. He also spoke personally at a Linux convention some where if I recall, and he is known with in the FOSS community as proponent such. Perhaps I see it differently and you are referring to the fact that he is "BPS" here and not "EB/MM." If I felt that this was something that was super secret, I never would have brought it up, but all it takes is Google to find out this information including the direct quotes.

And...where was the support when he brought up my suspension in the first place? Did it really affect the discussion for any one to say "What does it matter, we all know you've been suspended." I'm not trying to say I was fighting fire with fire or anything, but it feels a little bit one sided at this point, and as has been pointed out, my POV on this topic did not change as a result of the suspension (It may have solidified).

dmp

bdodd444
01-16-2013, 01:53 PM
I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this, but I believe competitions support the backyarder. I do maybe 6 comps a year and who are the throngs walking around, having a good time admiring smokers and asking questions? I would venture to say a lot of them are backyard cooks having a great time and picking up cooking tips. Just my dos centavos...

BBQchef33
01-16-2013, 02:59 PM
this is last warning.

Stay ON TOPIC. Seriously? Linux conventions? Microsoft? WTF? Digging up dirt, public or private, that has NO BEARING on this thread will not be tolerated. Next post I see like that, the author WILL find the doors locked. You want to piss in someones cereal bowl, take it private, or go do it somewhere else.

The rules are clear. NO AIRING DIRTY LAUNDRY. Cut the crap and stay on topic.

CivilWarBBQ
01-16-2013, 03:24 PM
Seems like this horse has been well-beaten. I vote you close the thread and we move on.

Sawdustguy
01-16-2013, 06:03 PM
I'm sorry you feel KCBS does not support your interest in BBQ. No organization can be everything to everyone. I believe the majority of KCBS members are involved in comp bbq in some way, either as cooks, judges, reps or organizers.

With that being said I am curious what a 'backyard barbecuer' is looking for from a bbq organization. What services do you think would be beneficial ? What would give a membership to KCBS value to you ?

Why not help promote backyard style contests and offer an inexpensive sanction fee. Not every contest that you sanction has to be a full up four catagory pro event with two reps and CBJ class etc. etc. Why not offer sanctioning for and promote one day backyard grilling events for the backyard cook like NEBS does. This will create a new market for the KCBS, build a rapport with the backyard cook and create an avenue and some contest experience for those backyard cooks who may be interested into moving up to the pro ranks.

Hawg Father of Seoul
01-16-2013, 06:04 PM
Seems like this horse has been well-beaten. I vote you close the thread and we move on.

Why don't we turn it around and post ideas of how KCBS can support the backyard guys better. I thought adding to the bullsheet was a good idea.

I think the seminar type stuff that Sterling did was good, although not in support of the KCBS. But why couldn't we shig it? I am already mounting cameras in his bbq rig. Shigging that seems like small time.

Like the way that Pollock thinks

Sawdustguy
01-16-2013, 06:26 PM
I do not disagree that KCBS is competition-centric and while I am in agreement with Steve in that I'd love to hear what anyone's thoughts are on how KCBS can cater more to the needs of the backyard BBQer, I just don't know what that might be that you can't get in other places. My gosh, take a look at the Q-Talk forum here and there's a danged LIFETIME of knowledge and information. But if you have ideas, please send me an email at jstith@kcbs.us and I'll be glad to discuss them with you.

And to the person (don't recall who it was) who said they voted for change and still don't see it on the board, I will say it is not for a lack of trying sometimes. There are three of the four of us left from last year but I believe we've said all along that it may take an election or two to really make a difference. Folks, we are in need of some new ideas all across the slate of KCBS. Whether you run for the board, support someone who is running with good ideas or just want to share your ideas, just do so! I started up a Facebook page for myself JUST to be present and accessible any time. Contact me. It's not up to twelve board members to think of all the good ideas. That's not happening - no matter who is on the board. We rely on members to make suggestions and come to us saying things like "Hey, the other day, I had this really great idea that I'd like to share with you for KCBS and maybe it can be fleshed out into something awesome". Obviously there are those of you with dissatisfaction. Don't just tell me you aren't happy... tell me why and offer some suggestions. Thanks... off my soapbox now.

Phil will probably shoot me but if I was the KCBS I would beg Phil Rizzardi to become KCBS President. Look at what he has created here. Look at what he has done for BBQ and the work he has done to spread good will throughout the community on behalf of the Brethren. I have no doubt in my mind he could do the same thing with the KCBS. How many members here are dissatisfied I ask? None!!! Phil is the type of visionary that the KCBS sorely needs. :clap:

Big Poppa
01-16-2013, 08:12 PM
hawg Ill set them up for you and give you the ip address! can I just peek when you cook the devil meat chicken?

YankeeBBQ
01-16-2013, 09:42 PM
Why not help promote backyard style contests and offer an inexpensive sanction fee. Not every contest that you sanction has to be a full up four catagory pro event with two reps and CBJ class etc. etc. Why not offer sanctioning for and promote one day backyard grilling events for the backyard cook like NEBS does. This will create a new market for the KCBS, build a rapport with the backyard cook and create an avenue and some contest experience for those backyard cooks who may be interested into moving up to the pro ranks.

Actually KCBS already provides this service. It's called a competitor series event I believe. Someone will correct me if I'm wrong. I believe some of the NEBS grilling events actually use KCBS sanctioning either as an extra added category or competitor series event.

Sawdustguy
01-16-2013, 10:47 PM
Actually KCBS already provides this service. It's called a competitor series event I believe. Someone will correct me if I'm wrong. I believe some of the NEBS grilling events actually use KCBS sanctioning either as an extra added category or competitor series event.

Maybe I have my head in the sand but I have never heard of the competitor series. I am sure I am not the only one. It doesn't say much if anything about the competitor series on the website either.

Crash
01-16-2013, 11:09 PM
This is from the KCBS site:

Competitors Series
For the Organizer who wants to have a unique barbeque experience a Competitor’s Series may be contest you are looking for. With a Competitors Series, the Organizer chooses the types of meats to be cooked, instead of the 4 standard meats used by KCBS. In addition, the Competitors Series contest allows for alternative heats sources. Traditional sanctioning fees and costs apply. The Competitors Series Contest is not eligible for the American Royal or the Jack Daniels World Championship. In addition, teams who participate in a Licensed Contest will not receive KCBS Team of the Year points.


I know that there are a few of these events popping up in AZ. The last one in December had Burger, Wings, Hot Dog and Steak as categories.

Big Poppa
01-17-2013, 12:14 AM
King of the Smokers was a competitor series event

CivilWarBBQ
01-17-2013, 12:46 AM
So was the LPQue for gassers.

Jorge
01-17-2013, 08:33 AM
Why not help promote backyard style contests and offer an inexpensive sanction fee. Not every contest that you sanction has to be a full up four catagory pro event with two reps and CBJ class etc. etc. Why not offer sanctioning for and promote one day backyard grilling events for the backyard cook like NEBS does. This will create a new market for the KCBS, build a rapport with the backyard cook and create an avenue and some contest experience for those backyard cooks who may be interested into moving up to the pro ranks.

NEBS, I believe, already does this and does it well from my experience. While I served on the board one thing that I strongly believed in was establishing better relationships with regional organizations. I'd hate to see KCBS perceived to be the 800 lb. gorilla coming in to dominate a space they'd previously ignored, and harming a regional organization in the process.

Actually KCBS already provides this service. It's called a competitor series event I believe. Someone will correct me if I'm wrong. I believe some of the NEBS grilling events actually use KCBS sanctioning either as an extra added category or competitor series event.

Correct. The price structure is the same as the traditional 4 meat contest and I believe that's a hurdle that's difficult to overcome for a separate grilling event, or backyard event. If either of those two types of events are run the same day as a traditional contest the opportunity is there to cut costs be having the other categories turned in before or after the usual 4...but then you run into issues about the quantity of food you ask a judge to consume or need a separate judging pool. Randy and I discussed it, but never got to a point where I felt we had the answers to bring it to the board.

dmprantz
01-17-2013, 09:18 AM
My opinion: The thing that any organization can do to help non-competitive BBQ is to foster communication. If you don't compete, what else is there? You buy stuff, you learn stuff, you cook stuff, and you eat stuff. There needs to be a place where BBQ cooks can learn about what to buy and how to cook, share pictures, and maybe even organize get-togethers and meet-ups for eating the stuff. Fortunately this forum (and a few others) already exist and allow that for free.

I know that the KCBS has talked about getting some form of forum, but I'd be concerned that it's going to be heavily moderated and/or members only. I understand both of those, and why should KCBS allow non-members to participate, except that other locations do. If you want to "compete" as it were, and you want to promote BBQ to every one, not just those who increase your bottom line, you should find ways to foster communication for every one. It goes against the revenue generating NPO mindset that exists, but that's my humble opinion. Of course, even if it is created, it needs to be differentiated enough to attract users away from existing forums and social networking sites.

dmp

big matt
01-17-2013, 01:46 PM
I feel like I get my 35 bucks worth..I'm KCBS biased but why wouldn't I be?..sactioned contests across the country.we can go to any state and compete and expect to be judged fairly and professionally..go to RD when needed or use the hotel discount,the bullsheet..seems worth it to me..whether you like it or not KCBS is the measuring stick of competitive BBQ across this country..yes there are other bodies but IMO KCBS is king and will continue to be.

INmitch
01-17-2013, 10:05 PM
If not for the KCBS I wouldn't be traveling around the country blowing $ to cook comps. I've cooked for the last 5 years on a rather large pit that is big n black with a lot of chrome n shiney things (it drips testosterone). It tends to get a LOT of passers by to stop and ask questions.
I'm a people person and always answer any and all questions and enjoy it. Even during turnins.
So the question is does KCBS lean towards competition??? Ya probably. But out of the hundreds and hundreds (if not more) that I've answered questions to or just shot the sh!t with. Have I not sparked an interest in bbq? I think so.





I guess you could call it trickle down.

Rich Parker
01-18-2013, 05:38 AM
I hope to always be a member of KCBS. The reasons for joining aren't going to be the same for everyone it's about you and if you believe it's worth it. Oh, I also support FOSS!

Spydermike72
01-18-2013, 06:59 AM
If not for the KCBS I wouldn't be traveling around the country blowing $ to cook comps. I've cooked for the last 5 years on a rather large pit that is big n black with a lot of chrome n shiney things (it drips testosterone). It tends to get a LOT of passers by to stop and ask questions.
I'm a people person and always answer any and all questions and enjoy it. Even during turnins.
So the question is does KCBS lean towards competition??? Ya probably. But out of the hundreds and hundreds (if not more) that I've answered questions to or just shot the sh!t with. Have I not sparked an interest in bbq? I think so.





I guess you could call it trickle down.

All while blasting Pull Me Under on your iPod!! :becky::becky:

---k---
01-18-2013, 11:45 AM
I'm a little late to the party. I have to admit that I share some of OP's sentiment. I've for a long time considered posting a similar thread, with a slightly different take on the topic.

I'm wondering what is in KCBS for me? What am I missing or failing to see?

I have absolutely no interest in competing or judging. I've taken Scottie's charity cooking class, and it just isn't for me. But, I joined last year primarily for the ability to shop at RD, since that is the only supply of brisket around here. And honestly, I really didn't know what I was joining when I joined. Since joining, I have very much enjoyed shopping at RD. I have enjoyed reading Bull Sheet each month -though I'm mostlylooking at the adds for smokers and dreaming.

BUT, I am a bit shocked at how narrowly focused on competitions KCBS seems to be. I didn't expect that when I joined. I figured I had to be missing something. At the end of the day, I realized that KCBS is an organization for competitors and there is nothing wrong with that. They appear to be serving a purpose.

$35/yr is worth it to me for access to RD -Less expensive than Costco- so, I'll probably continue to be a member. And honestly, I did spend time trying to think whatelse they could be doing to serve me. The best I could come up with was more features in the Bull Sheet, such as real Equipement Reviews, more teaching, or maybe an yearly BBQ Buyers Guide that that lists all manufacturer's of smokers, rubs, injections, etc. Sort of like Audiophile magazine and other publications do.

Smoke'n Ice
01-18-2013, 07:43 PM
It takes a simple State Sales Tax certificate to join RD and this way you get flyers and unadvertised special. This cost minimal or not at all and you only have to file a sales tax which is 0 if you don't have any sales quarterly or yearly on-line depending on your state and they send you a reminder. Check out your state requirements. Your name is all that is needed and it saves hassel.