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Cloudsmoker
12-15-2012, 11:10 PM
Thanks in advance for a newbie question. I know you cannot separate the money muscle from the shoulder while cooking. But if you want it less cooked, is it allowable to separate at an earlier internal temp, then put the rest of the butt back on?

txschutte
12-15-2012, 11:18 PM
no.

That is separating.

que_dawg
12-16-2012, 07:07 AM
That is against the rules in KCBS, you can't put the pork butt back on the cooker after it has been separated in any way. Lots of guys on here will cook multiple butts for that reason. They will cook multiple butts and cook two to the temp they want for the MM and two to a higher temp for pulling.

boogiesnap
12-16-2012, 07:49 AM
not that i do it or see any reason to, but, i'm not sure if that would actually be illegal.

if the meat stayed on the cooker while the MM was sliced off and the remaining portion was still over five pounds it could be argued as legal(i.e. trimming?), so long the MM did not return to the cooker.

i could also be waaaay wrong though and wouldn't suggest trying it either way.

Goddahavit
12-16-2012, 08:32 AM
way wrong. in my opinion.

PORK: Pork is defined as Boston Butt, Picnic and/or Whole
Shoulder, weighing a minimum of five (5) pounds. Pork shall
be cooked whole (bone in or bone out) and shall not be
separated during the cooking process. At no time shall the
meat once separated be returned to a cooker.

read it how you will, but it it clear to me, just because you can cut it in the cooker and not "return" it to the cooker, I feel the rule is clear.

It could be trimming, but then in my opinion you would consider the MM trimed meat and toss it or eat it after the comp....

boogiesnap
12-16-2012, 09:19 AM
i can agree with that.

wjwheeler
12-16-2012, 09:56 AM
IMHO The KCBS Board needs to better define this rule. It seems to be open to many different interpretations.

Outnumbered
12-16-2012, 10:07 AM
way wrong. in my opinion.

PORK: Pork is defined as Boston Butt, Picnic and/or Whole
Shoulder, weighing a minimum of five (5) pounds. Pork shall
be cooked whole (bone in or bone out) and shall not be
separated during the cooking process. At no time shall the
meat once separated be returned to a cooker.

read it how you will, but it it clear to me, just because you can cut it in the cooker and not "return" it to the cooker, I feel the rule is clear.

It could be trimming, but then in my opinion you would consider the MM trimed meat and toss it or eat it after the comp....

I see in no way how this can be misinterpreted. Shall not be separated during the cooking process is very clear. Can't return it to the cooker.

boogiesnap
12-16-2012, 10:31 AM
agreed, i remembered it as parted and returned only....

wjwheeler
12-16-2012, 10:38 AM
I see in no way how this can be misinterpreted. Shall not be separated during the cooking process is very clear. Can't return it to the cooker.

I've seen teams at comps open the smoker and separate the mm without taking the butt out of the smoker. Since it was never taken out - it was never returned. Others have set it on the firebox and not returned it to the smoker. They felt they were not in violation of the rule.

PorkQPine
12-16-2012, 10:58 AM
I've seen teams at comps open the smoker and separate the mm without taking the butt out of the smoker. Since it was never taken out - it was never returned. Others have set it on the firebox and not returned it to the smoker. They felt they were not in violation of the rule.

This is how sports are ruined. People knowing what the rules say and trying to get around them. Kinda like politicians.

Jaskew82
12-16-2012, 11:00 AM
that is separating and is illegal.

Outnumbered
12-16-2012, 01:14 PM
that is separating and is illegal.

That is exactly what it is. In the spirit and letter of the rule.

JD McGee
12-16-2012, 01:22 PM
PORK: Pork is defined as Boston Butt, Picnic and/or Whole
Shoulder, weighing a minimum of five (5) pounds. Pork shall
be cooked whole (bone in or bone out) and shall not be
separated during the cooking process. At no time shall the
meat once separated be returned to a cooker.


The rule is crystal clear to me...but...a cheater is gonna cheat and folks are always gonna try to argue the facts to gain an advantage...you just need to figure out which one of those folks you are. :cool:

Cloudsmoker
12-16-2012, 02:44 PM
Thanks, all. You guys are terrific - really appreciate it.

smoke-n-my-i's
12-16-2012, 02:58 PM
IMHO The KCBS Board needs to better define this rule. It seems to be open to many different interpretations.

Without going into a lot of detail, the rules committee has tried..... but to no avail. The board did not like it, so it got turned down.

smoke-n-my-i's
12-16-2012, 03:01 PM
Once the butt has been cut in any way into two or more pieces, it is considered separated, and can NOT remain in the cooker, or returned back to the cooker.... period.

Like it has already been said, that is why many teams cook multiply numbers of butts, to pull some at a lower temp for the MM, and let the rest finish cooking for pulling. That is the safest way to cook as to not violate the rules.

boogiesnap
12-16-2012, 10:03 PM
The rule is crystal clear to me...but...a cheater is gonna cheat and folks are always gonna try to argue the facts to gain an advantage...you just need to figure out which one of those folks you are. :cool:


just because one can debate the rule as written i wouldn't suggest them to be a cheater. but that's just me.

Q-Dat
12-16-2012, 11:09 PM
Separation of the money muscle, after it is cooked to the desired doneness, and returning the rest of the butt to the cooker = not legal.

Wastefully cooking numerous pork butts to achieve the same results as the above = totally legal.

dosvans
12-17-2012, 06:35 AM
Wastefully cooking numerous pork butts to achieve the same results as the above = totally legal.

Why would you think that cooking numerous Pork Butts (4 or more) is wasteful if you achieve what you set out to do and get paid, and are also able to sell the leftovers to friends and neighbors?

lazyjacres
12-17-2012, 02:34 PM
I've seen teams at comps open the smoker and separate the mm without taking the butt out of the smoker. Since it was never taken out - it was never returned. Others have set it on the firebox and not returned it to the smoker. They felt they were not in violation of the rule.

The rule is: If it is seperated, it cannot be returned to cooking. In the cooker, out of the cooker, on the fire box, whatever............
If you need 2 different final result temps, cook 2 butts.

Q-Dat
12-17-2012, 07:28 PM
Why would you think that cooking numerous Pork Butts (4 or more) is wasteful if you achieve what you set out to do and get paid, and are also able to sell the leftovers to friends and neighbors?

Right now I only get to cook a few contests a year, so I have no trouble finding uses or homes for leftovers. However there are plenty who cook so many contests that a whole lot of perfectly good pork gets tossed in the trash.

Cooking multiple butts to get properly cooked money muscle takes no more skill than it would take to separate and then continue cooking the rest of the butt.(probably less if you really think about it) It only makes you spend more money.

gettinbasted
12-17-2012, 08:00 PM
There is a third alternative. Cut your money muscle off the same butt as your pulled chunks when it is all cooked. It is pork, not rocket science.

INmitch
12-17-2012, 08:03 PM
IMHO The KCBS Board needs to better define this rule. It seems to be open to many different interpretations.

Everybody knows what the damn rules are!!! All this crap comes up (every year) about interpreting the rule different. If you want to turn in sliced MM cook an extra butt. Plain n simple!! If some one has seen a team seperating in the smoker, tell the KCBS rep. They should be DQ'd.:mad2:

INmitch
12-17-2012, 08:11 PM
The rule is crystal clear to me...but...a cheater is gonna cheat and folks are always gonna try to argue the facts to gain an advantage...you just need to figure out which one of those folks you are. :cool:

Exactly!!!!:thumb:

BKBBQ
12-17-2012, 10:10 PM
I love the fba.

dosvans
12-18-2012, 09:00 AM
However there are plenty who cook so many contests that a whole lot of perfectly good pork gets tossed in the trash.



I know this is off subject, but no matter how much someone cooks, it's sad to think that someone would throw perfectly good BBQ away. If I can't sell my BBQ, I will usually give it to the guy who orders my parsley at the grocery store, or the butcher who provides my meat. If I still have some leftover, there is always the homeless shelter.

Coz
12-18-2012, 06:31 PM
At what point does the Butt NOT have to weigh 5# any more. I always assumed it had to weigh 5 when it went in the cooker. I saw some that I seriously doubt were 4 .I asked a couple different reps and it seems they differ in their opinions. One said after meat inspection it didnt matter .