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Smoke Ring
11-14-2012, 11:23 AM
Sometimes it's really hard not to say I told you so.

KCBScore COMMITTEE REPORT - Mike Budai

I met with Carl of InDevX on 11/5 and was informed that due to medical reasons, Dejan (Score's programmer), has left InDevX and the project. We discussed options and met again 11/7 to go over Dejan's progress notes on the changes given to InDevX on 9/11. These changes dealt with program bugs, report structure and the API. I will be meeting with InDevX's CEO, James, 11/12 to go over the change order and discuss what kind of delay to expect in order to get a new programmer up to speed.

DawgPhan
11-14-2012, 11:33 AM
Sometimes it's really hard not to say I told you so.

KCBScore COMMITTEE REPORT - Mike Budai

I met with Carl of InDevX on 11/5 and was informed that due to medical reasons, Dejan (Score's programmer), has left InDevX and the project. We discussed options and met again 11/7 to go over Dejan's progress notes on the changes given to InDevX on 9/11. These changes dealt with program bugs, report structure and the API. I will be meeting with InDevX's CEO, James, 11/12 to go over the change order and discuss what kind of delay to expect in order to get a new programmer up to speed.

So who on the board has a personal connection to this company?

Smoke Ring
11-14-2012, 11:37 AM
So who on the board has a personal connection to this company?

The company belongs to Sonny Ashford's son. Sonny has a few friends in high places on the board.

drbbq
11-14-2012, 11:37 AM
How long have they been working on this?

Smoke Ring
11-14-2012, 11:42 AM
How long have they been working on this?

About a year and a half.

Scottie
11-14-2012, 11:42 AM
Seems like 25 years...

Smoke Ring
11-14-2012, 11:48 AM
Seems like 25 years...

That's just the latest incarnation. That's not counting the previous debacle that was going to cost $70,000. Of course with all the delays and change orders from KCBS InDevX is probably up to that by now. This is the second time they have lost the programmer working on it. I guess they only employ one programmer at a time.

bover
11-14-2012, 12:39 PM
Wow.

I'm just a network engineer/datacenter guy, but I work on a lot of product development projects that are a heck of a lot more complex than this. Based on that experience, I just can't imagine how something like a scoring system should take longer than six months at max if properly managed. Has it really been going on for 18+ months?

Dan - 3eyzbbq
11-14-2012, 02:08 PM
So...the programmer leaves the company and the company is then going to issue a Change order to get a new programmer up to speed? That makes zero sense to me. The company should be responsible and on a deadline. Shouldn't be KCBS's problem that the company lost an employee.

BBQchef33
11-14-2012, 02:15 PM
had someone write The BBQ brethren scoring program in 6 weeks. :)

eggzlot
11-14-2012, 03:18 PM
I work at an IT consulting firm. I am not trying to sell our services to KCBS or anyone on this board, I am just saying in my 9 years in this industry, haven't seen such a small task take so long to complete. Losing an employee should not deter the project, the firm should have people in place to resume the work - its called a contingency plan. This does not seem like rocket science work. I am not behind closed doors with KCBS to know the specifics, but building a scoring system seems like an average task, at best, which should be completed in weeks, not months.

TheJackal
11-14-2012, 05:43 PM
Yup. I would expect my guys to knock this out in a few weeks. (plus testing etc). Data Integration is our game (INFA). Manage, Analyze, Architect, Design, Build, Test, Deploy, Operate. It's called a methodology. When an employee leaves, the knowledge transfer burden falls to the vendor, not the customer. It's called an 'execution discount'.

Apparently there are a lot of IT guys here that also like to BBQ! :)

Rich Parker
11-14-2012, 06:13 PM
I could have wrote in COBOL .NET by now. :twisted:

Slamdunkpro
11-14-2012, 06:40 PM
I could have wrote in COBOL .NET by now. :twisted:
Hell, I could have done it on punch cards by now.

DawgPhan
11-14-2012, 07:25 PM
I could have written it for a TI-86.

also there are lots of IT type guys in bbq...though seems like most of them are hardware guys.

CBQ
11-15-2012, 01:16 PM
Apparently there are a lot of IT guys here that also like to BBQ! :)

It would appear so. Comes in handy when hooked up The Stoker. :becky:

Cue's Your Daddy
11-15-2012, 04:39 PM
I could have gone back to college for a masters in computer programming, and could finish it before they do. Isn't 70k what they pay for rent of the kcbs Building?:doh: must be the same person setting it up.

Rich Parker
11-15-2012, 06:20 PM
Hell, I could have done it on punch cards by now.

:bow::bow::bow:

hamiltont
11-15-2012, 06:39 PM
Hell, I could have done it on punch cards by now.
029 or 129??? Remember those? I'm an ex COBOL programmer tried & true! And yes, it appears to me someone is raking someone over the proverbial coals...

Outnumbered
11-16-2012, 02:35 PM
I'm new to KCBS, within the past year, so I'm not sure what is entailed here. I want to jump on the bandwagon and I'm sure I will, but what's the background here and what is involved in this project?

Slamdunkpro
11-16-2012, 03:05 PM
029 or 129??? Remember those? I'm an ex COBOL programmer tried & true! And yes, it appears to me someone is raking someone over the proverbial coals...
I used to do systems work for IBM back in the MVT/VM/MVS days.

PICTURE 88 !!!

Slamdunkpro
11-16-2012, 03:08 PM
That's just the latest incarnation. That's not counting the previous debacle that was going to cost $70,000. Of course with all the delays and change orders from KCBS InDevX is probably up to that by now. This is the second time they have lost the programmer working on it. I guess they only employ one programmer at a time.
Maybe KCBS is their only active IT development client?

Teamfour
11-16-2012, 03:36 PM
I communicated with someone on the board on the topic of issuing team numbers in lieu of using the head cook's KCBS number in the scoring system. What started as a nice back and forth quickly turned defensive. I was told the project had been going on for five years and has seen "three programmers, a change in the database manager, and a myriad of other circumstances" that has delayed the project. It appears that it is too late for changes (although a change order is being issued for a new programmer) and that the developer has been "very kind with their charges".

As a previous contracting officer for huge IT projects, and manager of a development team for some very complex data collection and reporting systems, this scoring system (by itself) is a nine month project at the most, IMHO.

hamiltont
11-16-2012, 06:59 PM
I used to do systems work for IBM back in the MVT/VM/MVS days.

PICTURE 88 !!!

Operated a 360/30 & 50 as well as a 370/145 & 148 at a bank back in the 70's. Good memories...

Smokin Mike
11-16-2012, 07:19 PM
at best InDevX website is buggy!

Smokin Mike
11-16-2012, 07:22 PM
at best InDevX website is buggy!

info should not point to woothemes:shock:, contact, should not point to your email client,,,:shock:

EDIT: ok, I looked at the portfolio,,, I spoken to soon, they really knock it out the park for the clients. but, whats up with the wootheme, and to:mail links?

CBQ
11-17-2012, 08:45 AM
I started with Fortran 66 on OS 370/VM. Despite that language having no data types for anything but numbers (no letters) it could have been written in that by now.

It could be done in a couple of days on force.com. I don't think 70k is unreasonable, but the timeframe is. Using the chief cook's number is also completely useless for our team, since we have 2 pitmasters and split contest registrations between us. Under the new system, our ranking will be wrong all the time. It was just a poor design choice because it makes an assumption (teams have only one head cook) that isn't always true.

ique
11-17-2012, 11:28 AM
I used to do systems work for IBM back in the MVT/VM/MVS days.

PICTURE 88 !!!

Punch cards would actually work pretty well

Nordy
11-17-2012, 07:00 PM
Using the chief cook's number is also completely useless for our team, since we have 2 pitmasters and split contest registrations between us. Under the new system, our ranking will be wrong all the time. (teams have only one head cook) that isn't always true.

Hmmm... Can't teams only have one head cook? Otherwise I could have a "team" with "head cooks" all over the country and every weekend compete somewhere, but never actually have the same set of cooks do the cooking... ie whoever has a contest in their hometown or nearby cooks under the team name that weekend. Doesn't seem right...

IMHO a team can have many members... but the designated "head cook" should be present at every comp...

Maybe I'm confused...

Sorry for the deviation off topic...

CarolinaQue
11-18-2012, 09:06 AM
Hmmm... Can't teams only have one head cook? Otherwise I could have a "team" with "head cooks" all over the country and every weekend compete somewhere, but never actually have the same set of cooks do the cooking... ie whoever has a contest in their hometown or nearby cooks under the team name that weekend. Doesn't seem right...

IMHO a team can have many members... but the designated "head cook" should be present at every comp...

Maybe I'm confused...

Sorry for the deviation off topic...

I believe this is only true in KCBS if there are 2 different contests with the same turn in day. In KCBS, if you have 2 contests with a turn in day on different days, such as 1 with a turn in day of Saturday and 1 with a turn in day of Sunday, you can actually enter both contests under the same team name with two different head cooks and be inside the parameters of the rules. If I'm wrong, I apologize and please correct me if so.

CBQ
11-18-2012, 09:31 PM
Hmmm... Can't teams only have one head cook?

No, no restriction on that. You just can't cook in two locations that have turn ins on the same day. It's a team event, not a personal competition, right? The new scoring system turns KCBS into a personal event, not a team event.

gettinbasted
11-19-2012, 07:14 AM
I could have written it for a TI-86.

also there are lots of IT type guys in bbq...though seems like most of them are hardware guys.

Software guy here. I could have this written in days, not weeks or months. Including a full REST based api. Does anyone have an idea of the specs? If I had a copy of those I would write this thing for them for nothing.

drbbq
11-19-2012, 08:01 AM
If I had a copy of those I would write this thing for them for nothing.

I've always felt that we could get this and a lot of other stuff done well, fast, and cheap if we just asked properly. KCBS has 16,000 members.

drbbq
11-19-2012, 08:04 AM
Software guy here. I could have this written in days, not weeks or months. Including a full REST based api. Does anyone have an idea of the specs? If I had a copy of those I would write this thing for them for nothing.

Maybe you should email the BOD and make this offer.

DawgPhan
11-19-2012, 08:46 AM
Software guy here. I could have this written in days, not weeks or months. Including a full REST based api. Does anyone have an idea of the specs? If I had a copy of those I would write this thing for them for nothing.


them building out a proper API would be an awesome development for bbqrace.com and nationalbbqrankings.com and my wheels are spinning thinking of the amazing reporting that we could do on the information once it was all opened up.

gettinbasted
11-19-2012, 09:01 AM
Maybe you should email the BOD and make this offer.

Will do. Do you know who the best point of contact is for this?

timzcardz
11-19-2012, 09:07 AM
Will do. Do you know who the best point of contact is for this?

How about the entire board?

bod@kcbs.us

gettinbasted
11-19-2012, 09:09 AM
them building out a proper API would be an awesome development for bbqrace.com and nationalbbqrankings.com and my wheels are spinning thinking of the amazing reporting that we could do on the information once it was all opened up.

My thoughts exactly and an open api would be the reason I would donate my time to something like this. Just a plain old http based system so developers could pull and spin the data as needed. A Kcbs system would be the trusted keeper and repository for the data allowing others to develop consistent applications. Win win for everyone.

Does the Kcbs have a technology steering committee of any kind?

drbbq
11-19-2012, 11:05 AM
The KCBS comittees are typically a board member and a couple of his/her friends. The interaction with the entire membership is pretty limited. But you know, this would be a great way to start a positive change.
The obstacle is probably an existing contract.

Candy Weaver is the President so she'd probably be a good place to start. cweaver@kcbs.us If you get directed to the Executive Director (where many good ideas go to die) let us know and we'll find you a BOD member willing to help.

hcj3rd
11-19-2012, 11:49 AM
IBM 370-145 1/2MB memory I could still wire a board for the sorter if need be. LOL

Teamfour
11-19-2012, 12:08 PM
Maybe you should email the BOD and make this offer.

Will do. Do you know who the best point of contact is for this?

I contacted the entire board with the same offer. I received one reply that was supportive. I then swapped a few emails with another member who, in the end, basically told me KCBS has it handled. Thanks but no thanks.

Good luck.

gettinbasted
11-19-2012, 12:26 PM
I contacted the entire board with the same offer. I received one reply that was supportive. I then swapped a few emails with another member who, in the end, basically told me KCBS has it handled. Thanks but no thanks.

Good luck.

I will send out an email with my bona fides, offer to help, and let them take it from there. I'm not trying to ruffle any feathers. I just think something like this done correctly would add to our experience as cooks and help competition bbq grow. Change is hard for various reasons so I'm sure my results will be the same as yours.

Uomograsso
11-19-2012, 02:58 PM
My guess is you will get the same response. As another IT guy who is also a KCBS member, I agree this project should have taken 6 months, tops. I think it is a combination of lack of experience with IT projects on the boards part coupled with the consulting firm over selling it's capabilities. Maybe what it would take is a few members requesting to speak at the next board meeting to ask some questions about what is going on?