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Buckscent
09-21-2012, 07:04 PM
If you have been cooking BY and want to try the pro division and don't do good can you go back to backyard?

82's BBQ
09-21-2012, 07:07 PM
Yes. There is nothing that prevents you from competing in the backyard divisions after doing sanctioned events.

CBQ
09-21-2012, 09:06 PM
On the other hand, most teams are bad when they start. Stick with it for a while, even if you do poorly. We were bad when we started . We still aren't an elite team, but heading to the Royal, SAMs National, and The Jack this year. Who knows where it could take you?

gmholler
09-21-2012, 10:28 PM
If what you want to do is go back to "backyard" cooking after cooking "pro" for a while, I'd make sure before I tried to do so that the contest I'm looking at participating in doesn't have a problem with it - many contests frown on that sort of thing, and there's nothing preventing an organizer from making a rule about that for their contest. True, I've know plenty of contests that don't care one way or the other, but in going back to "backyard" after cooking "pro" you are likely to earn the disdain of many other cookers - many of whom have been where you are and wondered the same things you are. But I have to agree with Chris - stick with it & watch where it takes you!!

Lynn H.

4uweque
09-22-2012, 12:24 AM
Honestly I think cooking in the pro divisions are the best way to improve your product. BY doesn't always have CBJs so you may not be getting accurate feedback. At least you have a standard to strive for.

Q-Dat
09-22-2012, 01:10 AM
Depending on the situation, it may be allowed, but I can tell you with confidence that even if you don't place all that well after you move up, that cooking the backyard division will probably not do it for you anymore.

CivilWarBBQ
09-22-2012, 01:11 AM
Yes. There is nothing that prevents you from competing in the backyard divisions after doing sanctioned events.

Not true.

Some backyard events do not allow anyone to participate who has cooked Pro - the Shadetree division at The Jack is the most well-known example.

Buckscent
09-22-2012, 06:04 AM
Yea, I am for sure not ready for pro but there is a kcbs comp here close and was just wanting to try It just once for now. Who knows, like some have mentioned I might like it and stay. I just want to know I can go back to BY if I don't

YankeeBBQ
09-22-2012, 07:59 AM
Yea, I am for sure not ready for pro but there is a kcbs comp here close and was just wanting to try It just once for now. Who knows, like some have mentioned I might like it and stay. I just want to know I can go back to BY if I don't

Sure you can but if you go back to backyard and win just be prepared for some of the whiners complaining that your a pro team. They'll probably complain to the organizer too.

The_Kapn
09-22-2012, 08:04 AM
Common thread here.

A little reading from the recent past:

http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=143595&highlight=backyard

TIM

CBQ
09-22-2012, 06:53 PM
Common thread here.

A little reading from the recent past:

http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=143595&highlight=backyard

TIM

Ya, Bill has the organizers and cookers complaining to him, and he didn't even cook the event. Thats the kind of stuff that can happen.

Contracted Cookers
09-22-2012, 09:26 PM
Yea, I am for sure not ready for pro but there is a kcbs comp here close and was just wanting to try It just once for now. Who knows, like some have mentioned I might like it and stay. I just want to know I can go back to BY if I don't
go for it. if you like it and time , money and family or friends are there that is all it is about . it is just bbq . alot of people can't dedicate 2 days for a contest every weekend or 500.00 -700.00 every contest. cook any contest that you fill comfortable cooking . with rules that are in play. good luck

OutlawSwine
09-22-2012, 10:22 PM
Yea, I am for sure not ready for pro but there is a kcbs comp here close and was just wanting to try It just once for now. Who knows, like some have mentioned I might like it and stay. I just want to know I can go back to BY if I don't

I'm not far from you at all. Let me know if you have any questions. We are by no means a top tier team, but we hold our own and have learned a ton of stuff.

MattG
09-23-2012, 09:20 PM
We are in the same boat. And alas most backyard comps around here will not let you in even if you have only been in one Pro event.

Pigs on Fire
09-24-2012, 09:03 AM
I'd rather the organizers charge 75% of the Pro entry fee, make 3 meats mandatory and had a maximum purse of $1,000 for Backyard contests.

It's almost comical to go to a contest and see a "Backyard" team with a 32' MBN type trailer with two huge cabinet smokers, 12' stainless steel counterop/bar, 37 monogramed folding chairs, bar stools, TV and Fridge or a "Backyard" team roll in with a 35' Toy hauler.

What are they there for?? Their minimum expense for the weekend is twice the maximum payout they can attain. Plus, it's not their first contest. No, it's not about the money as much as it's not their first few contests. You don't buy all that stuff before you've got your feet wet a few times.

My question is this- If you cook more than 2 backyard contests.... Why?

tnjimbob
09-24-2012, 03:03 PM
simple answer - not enough $$$ to compete in Pro division.

Pigs on Fire
09-24-2012, 03:12 PM
I'm sorry, I don't understand your answer.

Are you saying that you can spend $450 to compete in a backyard contest where the purse is $1500, but can't spend $600 to compete in a Pro contest where the purse might be $10,000?

tnjimbob
09-24-2012, 03:46 PM
I've never spent $450 for a backyard comp. Too expensive for my budget. More like $250-300, which is a huge gap from $600. Most pro teams I know spend more than that for comps, regardless of the possible purse amount.

MattG
09-25-2012, 11:30 AM
I'd rather the organizers charge 75% of the Pro entry fee, make 3 meats mandatory and had a maximum purse of $1,000 for Backyard contests.

It's almost comical to go to a contest and see a "Backyard" team with a 32' MBN type trailer with two huge cabinet smokers, 12' stainless steel counterop/bar, 37 monogramed folding chairs, bar stools, TV and Fridge or a "Backyard" team roll in with a 35' Toy hauler.

What are they there for?? Their minimum expense for the weekend is twice the maximum payout they can attain. Plus, it's not their first contest. No, it's not about the money as much as it's not their first few contests. You don't buy all that stuff before you've got your feet wet a few times.

My question is this- If you cook more than 2 backyard contests.... Why?

I went to Pigs and Peaches in my 20' Vending trailer and competed in Backyard(10th overall). I had a Stumps Stretch and a Traeger 100 on the back porch. Does that make me a pro? I have never done a pro event and have only cooked in about 7 backyard comps in about eight years. I cooked my first pro event in Winder GA (this year) only because that was the only way they would let me vend (19th Overall). You stated its not their first contest if someone comes in with a lot of equipment. My question to you is how do you know it's not their first comp? How do you know it's not a new team that has a BBQ Joint, vends, or knows a person that has a store and wants free advertisement? The team that was beside us two years ago had 5 XL Eggs with them. His brother sells them and let them use them for the advertisement. The guy behind us in Kennesaw rolled up in a huge 40' trailer with plasma screen and 3 smokers. But he got it all from the man that he worked for. He didn't do well at all in the comp. And it was his first one. It's not trying to get over on the backyard guys or the pros, its knowing your place and your BBQ ability. It's just too easy to judge a book by the cover. Rant over!!!!

Lake Dogs
09-25-2012, 11:44 AM
From: Pigs on Fire

> It's almost comical to go to a contest and see a "Backyard" team with a 32' MBN type trailer with two huge cabinet smokers, 12' stainless steel counterop/bar, 37 monogramed folding chairs, bar stools, TV and Fridge or a "Backyard" team roll in with a 35' Toy hauler.

I dont know. I had my 30' RV 8 years before we competed in our first BBQ competition. I know many people who just "roll" this way. For that matter, I cooked in a few MBN contests. Trust me, 32' competition trailers dont win; great Q wins, and it can be done with a few EZ Up tents...


> I'd rather the organizers charge 75% of the Pro entry fee, make 3 meats mandatory and had a maximum purse of $1,000 for Backyard contests.

I think the whole idea of "Backyard" vs. "Pro" is silly to me. There are accomplished competitors, some not quite as accomplished, and rookies. There are sanctioned contests, and unsanctioned contests. I dont know. It was just never my style. I never understood why anyone would want to compete if not competing against the very best. I'd like to see the whole concept go away. Enter in the sanctioned contest, or be spectator.

pmanzi
09-25-2012, 11:52 AM
Isn't it more about consistency? We have done 4 comps over the past 2 seasons and planning to do a few more in the next few months all as backyard. We have been lucky enough to walk at each of these events but in each case it has been for 1 meat while the others did middle to back of the pack. I have thought about doing pro next season but may no another year of BY just to get more experience and work on consistency of my cooks.

Lake Dogs
09-25-2012, 12:26 PM
Many of the team competing in the sanctioned contests have the same issue.

Back to the original question. Many "Back Yard" contests are just unsanctioned contests. Why would a competitor who has competed in
a sanctioned contest want to compete in a unsanctioned contest? There are hundreds of good reasons. Warm up. Just likes the simpler
format (perhaps doesnt like cooking chicken), close to home, etc.

Now, if you're asking in say KCBS, should someone compete in the "pro"/sanctioned side, then later play in the "backyard"/unsanctioned
side? I dont know...

I wouldn't. Makes no sense to compete in the "backyard" portion to me in the first place... Waste of money, time, effort IMHO.

Pigs on Fire
09-25-2012, 12:59 PM
Yeah, there was a ton of heavy hitters at the Pigs and Peaches contest. That is a tough field to get a call in.




I just don't get the whole backyard thing, tho. Yeah, I know there's a pre-determined mindset that it will be an easier contest, that the backyard fields aren't seasoned veterans. But if there's 4-5 teams here that have done 7 backyard contests and the rest of the 15 backyard teams are the same ones you see at the same contests every year, what's the point?

Some say money is the concern. It has been my experience that the backyard teams spend more on alcohol and food to feed the 30 family members that are there than they do on competition meats.

Whatever. I know when I started there was a small temptation to do one or two backyard contests. But I also wanted to jump in feet first and find out about it. I've pretty much done that with everything along the way anyway.


And the vending thing....ask any successful team out there that has been competing for several years- they will tell you that if you compete and vend, you have a chance at doing well in one of the two, not both unless you bring in a completely separate staff. Then you have more expense.

As for Winder, she was waaaaaaaay to cheap on the vendors at $75. I guess that is why there was a flood of them there.

fnbish
09-25-2012, 01:54 PM
From: Pigs on Fire

I think the whole idea of "Backyard" vs. "Pro" is silly to me. There are accomplished competitors, some not quite as accomplished, and rookies. There are sanctioned contests, and unsanctioned contests. I dont know. It was just never my style. I never understood why anyone would want to compete if not competing against the very best. I'd like to see the whole concept go away. Enter in the sanctioned contest, or be spectator.

Playing devils advocate......so to the point of "I never understood why anyone would want to compete if not competing against the very best." do you hold this statement true in all facets of life/sport/competing? Like if you just started playing basketball, would you go out to local courts where you know some of the best recreational players play and get stomped? Or tennis is a good example if you know of Alta around Atlanta. Would you start competing against one of the higher ranking tiers as a beginner? If a person did then they wouldn't even stand a chance. And also they couldn't improve because they were playing against someone who so much better they probably couldn't even return a ball.

Granted in competitive bbq you don't have to play "defense" so to speak as it isn't like another team is coming over to try and mess up your food. So those comparisons might be apples to oranges to some folks and I say them somewhat joking as well, but I think they hold true to an extent for folks that say things like "go big or go home" or "if you don't play with the big boys then why come out", etc. Not everyone thinks the same way. I just don't get how people don't get that. Some people look at it as a hobby and aren't as into it as others. Some get that, some don't.

Oh I just thought of a more accurate comparison.....if someone who just started playing the piano went to a piano competition (do they even have those? lets assume they do for the sake of this post :-P) should they compete in the top ranked national concert pianists? Ah and another good one. If you just started playing chess would you want to immediately start playing Garry Kasparov?

Lake Dogs
09-25-2012, 02:13 PM
Playing devils advocate......so to the point of "I never understood why anyone would want to compete if not competing against the very best." do you hold this statement true in all facets of life/sport/competing? Like if you just started playing basketball, would you go out to local courts where you know some of the best recreational players play and get stomped? Or tennis is a good example if you know of Alta around Atlanta. Would you start competing against one of the higher ranking tiers as a beginner? If a person did then they wouldn't even stand a chance. And also they couldn't improve because they were playing against someone who so much better they probably couldn't even return a ball.

Granted in competitive bbq you don't have to play "defense" so to speak as it isn't like another team is coming over to try and mess up your food. So those comparisons might be apples to oranges to some folks and I say them somewhat joking as well, but I think they hold true to an extent for folks that say things like "go big or go home" or "if you don't play with the big boys then why come out", etc. Not everyone thinks the same way. I just don't get how people don't get that. Some people look at it as a hobby and aren't as into it as others. Some get that, some don't.

Oh I just thought of a more accurate comparison.....if someone who just started playing the piano went to a piano competition (do they even have those? lets assume they do for the sake of this post :-P) should they compete in the top ranked national concert pianists? Ah and another good one. If you just started playing chess would you want to immediately start playing Garry Kasparov?

Ummm.... You're comparing physical activity of which one can get harmed to cooking. Not equals, but, YES. When I competed in triathlon, I did compete against pros, actual factory sponsored professionals whose sole income was derived from participating in this sport. I have a $6,000 titanium bike that I purchased used from the Quintana Roo factory after their competitor rode it in Hawaii. My last one was a 1/2 Iron Man, and at 46 years old I was 1st out of 500 men in the swim. Anyone will tell you, that's a sure kiss of death, I watched as 1/2 of the pack passed me in the run... But, at my age, and only 5'6" tall, competing against 26 yr old kids who are 6'3" tall, I think I did ok finishing middle of the pack, and frankly I'm damned proud of it. Would I have wanted to compete against a bunch of 46 yr old drunkards who cannot swim or run at professional race speed, in race conditions? No. Did I have a sinners chance in hell of winning this race, NO. I knew it ahead of time. Then, using my own logic against me, why did/would I compete? Because it's about measuring ones self, setting goals, seeing how you're doing, challenging ones self. That's why. I wanted to see if I could push those kids around the lake, and damned if I didnt do it. Was only a few weeks ago my daughter asked me about those days and that race. She came to a realization of what a 1.5 mile swim, a 56 mile bike ride, and a 13.2 mile run in 95 degree heat with 95% humidity can do to a person, and that the old man was a "bad ass".

But, it's still different. BBQ is a hobby, especially competition. There are guys out there competing whose income is derived from BBQ, but not solely from competition. We're all just participating in a fun hobby.

As to the piano, yes. Matters not whether you've played 6 months or 6 or 60 years, if you want to compete, then compete.

Otherwise, why compete? Seriously, why? Just enjoy cooking at home for friends. But if you want to compete, then by all means, DO IT.

DawgPhan
09-25-2012, 02:16 PM
you are too wrapped up in the getting beat part, you should be focused on the getting better part.

different strokes for different folks.

Pigs on Fire
09-25-2012, 02:19 PM
Jason,

I understand the desire to do some backyard contests...as I said, the thought even crossed my mind.

But back then, there weren't the $4,000 pursed backyard contests, at least not that I was aware of. And therein lies the rub that is starting to grow....an organizer doing a contest with the desire to draw a decent-sized field of pro teams with a sub-par purse and a backyard purse that offers too much enticement to "stay backyard". The organizer sees barely 30 Pro teams show up and 20 backyard teams with the backyard purse 80% of the Pro purse.....like the contest 10 days ago.

fnbish
09-25-2012, 02:24 PM
Otherwise, why compete? Seriously, why? Just enjoy cooking at home for friends. But if you want to compete, then by all means, DO IT.

I simply think this type of thinking can discourage newcomers from wanting to compete if they read it and think a bunch of the pro guys believe what they are doing is a waste of time. Doesn't seem in the spirit of growing competitions bbq to me.

Pigs on Fire
09-25-2012, 02:32 PM
What will grow BBQ competitions is larger fields of Pro competitors and larger purses, along with GREAT organizers, good venues and competitors who are there to compete.

If folks have the natural desire to compete, they will figure out a way to enter the contest, finance it, and extract the knowledge and skills needed to succeed.

Lake Dogs
09-25-2012, 02:34 PM
When competing, are we trying to grow a competitive hobby, or are we trying to compete and test our skills against someone else?

Lake Dogs
09-25-2012, 02:34 PM
What will grow BBQ competitions is larger fields of Pro competitors and larger purses, along with GREAT organizers, good venues and competitors who are there to compete.

If folks have the natural desire to compete, they will figure out a way to enter the contest, finance it, and extract the knowledge and skills needed to succeed.

Thank you! YES!


> I simply think this type of thinking can discourage newcomers from wanting to compete if they read it and think a bunch of the pro guys believe what they are doing is a waste of time. Doesn't seem in the spirit of growing competitions bbq to me.

You keep referring to these guys as "pro guys". They're just guys. Mind you, they may have a few thousand more hours behind a smoker, but they're still just cooking. Myron has forgotten more than I'll ever know, BUT he's still beatable. Last time I did an MBN comp, if I recall correctly, I tied for 4th in shoulder and Jack's Old South was around 10th... What
does that prove? Nothing. I had a better outing that day than him. That's all. Myron has his wonderful set-up, and I have a few EZ Up's. He's got his big dollar smokers, and I have my 1 lowly Lang. Didnt matter. I competed, against some serious big boys, and I did ok.

DawgPhan
09-25-2012, 02:41 PM
What will grow BBQ competitions is larger fields of Pro competitors and larger purses, along with GREAT organizers, good venues and competitors who are there to compete.

If folks have the natural desire to compete, they will figure out a way to enter the contest, finance it, and extract the knowledge and skills needed to succeed.


your free market is showing.

fnbish
09-25-2012, 02:48 PM
When competing, are we trying to grow a competitive hobby, or are we trying to compete and test our skills against someone else?

For different people I absolutely think one or the other could apply. And that is a point I'm trying to make. I'm simply saying that I believe the 2 ideas you have exist on their own for certain people and for some both apply. I cannot tell you why certain people think certain ways, but the fact that I don't understand why they think that way doesn't bother me.

Lake Dogs
09-25-2012, 02:55 PM
From what I've seen, most beginners who compete in the "Backyard" sections do so because they want to learn and enjoy. There's nothing wrong with their goals. But, Backyard doesn't provide the teaching/learning properly. Not consistently. Ask most who've done well, honed their skills in backyard and go "pro" (which I truly find amusing; because there is no Pro), only to get trounced. They were being judged by different standards, different judging pools, etc. They've perfected an apple only to enter into an orange contest. That's why I'm trying to say. The only way to learn is to do IT, COMPETE, do the real deal.

Mind you, if someone likes their local non-sanctioned comp, that's fantastic. Dont blame the seasoned veteran (ala. pro) if he likes it too... They may like it for the same reason.

fnbish
09-25-2012, 02:56 PM
Jason,

I understand the desire to do some backyard contests...as I said, the thought even crossed my mind.

But back then, there weren't the $4,000 pursed backyard contests, at least not that I was aware of. And therein lies the rub that is starting to grow....an organizer doing a contest with the desire to draw a decent-sized field of pro teams with a sub-par purse and a backyard purse that offers too much enticement to "stay backyard". The organizer sees barely 30 Pro teams show up and 20 backyard teams with the backyard purse 80% of the Pro purse.....like the contest 10 days ago.

I'm saying for the guys starting out backyard can be good or applicable to them. I did 3 backyard to start the year off and knew I would do pro the rest of the year out and forever in my mind. Competition bbq is my passion and I want it to become something even more and I 100% want it to continue to grow and understand your points above.

That being said my only real point I was trying to make is there is nothing wrong with "backyard" events. And for the folks that don't get them, they just need to let that go. Some people just want to go out, drink a few beers and don't care who they compete against. I can't explain it, but they do exist. Not sure why it bothers anyone when they don't have the same mindset as another man/woman. People think differently.

Pigs on Fire
09-25-2012, 03:05 PM
your free market is showing.

I left out a very important part- Sponsors. Great, generous sponsors who are tuned in to the exposure competition BBQ has is very important.

I left out Reps....because for the most part, the Reps who work GA in KCBS are the best and the folks that compete in GA know it....it doesn't need to be explained. It's going to suck when they decide to stay home or do something else. Well, I shouldn't say that. Let me rephrase that to they will be sorely missed. I have faith in them that their replacements will be trained by the best and the eventual replacements will strive to be like the ones we see now.