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Uncle Buds BBQ
09-08-2012, 04:33 PM
Winder is a cute little town off of I-85 not too far from Atlanta. I ran up there on Friday night to visit with some teams. The name of the the contest is Jug Tavern which goes way back in history somewhere.

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There were lots of food vendors.
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Doug built the Dawg smoker himself. He also built a 7' chicken smoker that weights 700 lbs!!!!
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Our wonderful contest reps...Phillip & Kathy and Ernie & Linda.
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Uncle Buds BBQ
09-08-2012, 04:48 PM
So here we are Sat. morning. Judging is indoors (yeah cause it looks like rain)

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OK...judging is over. Back outside to visit. My judge report will be at the end.
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Peoples choice.
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Uncle Buds BBQ
09-08-2012, 05:10 PM
Judge report.

Lot's of experienced judges. When the rep asked for any first time judges? No hands went up which is unusual.

Chicken
Our table got 5 entries all bone in, skin on, thighs. 3 entries were dark in color and 2 were noticeably lighter. Each box contained 6 thighs.

All were above average in taste and tenderness! As we talked after scoring we all agreed that they were collectively "awesome". One of the lighter entries had a mustard taste which caught us by surprise but we all liked it.

One was a little salty which I'll attribute to a brine.

Ribs
Again only 5 entries. All spares. 2 were bland..no taste. 2 were good and 1 was awesome. We all agreed that we would kill for a plate of these!

Pork
5 entries. One box had money muscle, pulled, and chunks. One had only MM. 2 had MM and pulled and the last one had pulled and chopped.

One had an over powering taste of vinegar. You could smell it when the table captain opened the box. I did not score it well. The other 4 were just OK on taste. 3 entries were mushy.

Overall we were disappointed.

Brisket
5 entries. 3 were slices and burnt ends and 2 were just slices. One of the just slices box was tough to the point that I could not pull test it. One of the boxes with BE the slice was just OK but the BE was great so it pulled up the taste score from me.

None of the entries "wowed' us.

Due to the impending rain I didn't wait around for awards. Overall impression is that Winder does a great job and cooks and judges I talked to were happy.

Oh...one note....during the rep. talk before we started we were told to curb any fraternization with the teams on Sat. We were told that talking to teams is OK..just don't stop walking. Something different.

efpoland
09-09-2012, 05:14 AM
Third year for a really great contest. Good organizer group with an active committee. Just look around and there are lots of bright green shirts. Ask them for anything and they would do it.
The fact that they fill up with teams about two months before the contest speaks well for what cooks think of the contest.

sdbbq1234
09-09-2012, 05:42 AM
Really great pics! Looks like a great event.

Thanks for sharing.

wallace

beerguy
09-09-2012, 06:50 AM
Looks like a great venue. Thanks for the pics and the report.

chrisnjenn
09-09-2012, 09:14 AM
Thanks for the pictures and commentary. I have heard nothing, but great things about this comp.. We are planning to be there next year.

DawgPhan
09-09-2012, 07:52 PM
heard several judges grumbling about the awful food this weekend. dont know what was up with that. We cooked solid food and took home so low scores for the trouble.

Uncle Buds BBQ
09-10-2012, 08:19 AM
heard several judges grumbling about the awful food this weekend. dont know what was up with that. We cooked solid food and took home so low scores for the trouble.

What is your team name?

DawgPhan
09-10-2012, 09:10 AM
What is your team name?

I cook with Terre and Chris on Kudzu Q.

Uncle Buds BBQ
09-10-2012, 09:17 AM
I cook with Terre and Chris on Kudzu Q.
Yea I noticed you guys were down in the ranking for chicken and pork.

DawgPhan
09-10-2012, 09:43 AM
Yea I noticed you guys were down in the ranking for chicken and pork.


Chicken wasnt the problem. I knew the skin wasnt great on the chicken. some was, some wasnt. scores reflected that.

My problem was with ribs...2 comment cards on ribs. Both said that they were overcooked. I disagree with that assessment. The real problem I have with the ribs though is that one of the comment cards came from someone that gave a 7 in apperence and an a 5 in tenderness. I dont think we have gotten a 7 in AP all year. Every other judge gave a 8 or 9 on AP in ribs. To me the really low AP score is a red flag.

Seems like our neighbors landed on the same rib table and got the same comment card.

Just seems like we had to have landed on the table with the judge I met in the parking lot would was loudly complaining about all the awful food he ate and that he gave out a lot of 6's.

Never really come across a judge that complained so much about the food. Most of the time I give a "get any good bbq today?" and get back a mix of responses, but mostly positive. This was the first time I have had anyone just plain pissed about the food he ate.

AUBBQ
09-10-2012, 01:29 PM
Good pictures. Thanks for sharing your comments on the judging as well.
It was nice to get a comment card, but we were stumped with the “overcooked” statement as well.
Nice meeting ya’ll Kudzu Q.

cdkeach
09-10-2012, 03:22 PM
You too Hicktown. We'll look forward to seeing you in the Fall.

Chris

ModelMaker
09-11-2012, 09:21 AM
You all want comment cards for low scores, and when you get them you disagree with the assesment?
Ed

DawgPhan
09-11-2012, 09:32 AM
You all want comment cards for low scores, and when you get them you disagree with the assesment?
Ed


why can't I disagree with the cards? If I had gotten a card in chicken that mentioned the skin, I would have agreed. When I saw the 2 7's in tenderness in chicken, I knew exactly what it was and knew that we got lucky with the 1 9 we got in tenderness.

Ribs being way way overcooked is something I would have noticed when I sampled, handled, and boxed those ribs. Combine it with a 7 in AP and I know that the guy was off. Follow that up with a little second hand story about what happened on 1 particular rib table, with 1 particular judge and I think it paints a pretty clear picture.

All anecdotal, some second hand, but I know when the food is good, bad, or really bad. The ribs maybe were not perfect, but they were not way way overcooked.

6 ribs, in a row from the same rack.

AUBBQ
09-11-2012, 10:06 AM
I appreciate the judge taking the time to write a comment card, but that doesn’t mean I have to agree with him. Taste is subjective, I wouldn’t complain if I had gotten low scores on taste, that’s his personal opinion. But I know when ribs are over or underdone. My ribs were not way overcooked by any means.

Sounds like we just caught a bad table…. It happens.

Uncle Buds BBQ
09-11-2012, 10:53 AM
why can't I disagree with the cards? If I had gotten a card in chicken that mentioned the skin, I would have agreed. When I saw the 2 7's in tenderness in chicken, I knew exactly what it was and knew that we got lucky with the 1 9 we got in tenderness.

Ribs being way way overcooked is something I would have noticed when I sampled, handled, and boxed those ribs. Combine it with a 7 in AP and I know that the guy was off. Follow that up with a little second hand story about what happened on 1 particular rib table, with 1 particular judge and I think it paints a pretty clear picture.

All anecdotal, some second hand, but I know when the food is good, bad, or really bad. The ribs maybe were not perfect, but they were not way way overcooked.

6 ribs, in a row from the same rack.

Would you be willing to post the actual scores from the 6 judges? I am curious to see them.

Pigs on Fire
09-11-2012, 01:54 PM
7-8-5
8-8-9
9-9-9
9-9-8
8-9-8
8-7-7

We got two cards on being overdone. One card looked EXACTLY like Hicktown's...almost like they were printed at home prior.

So that's three 9's in taste, two 9's in tenderness, two 8's in tenderness.

Looking at the Rib scores, I wouldn't be surprised to learn that two competitors in the top 6 overall were at the same table.

It's over, it wasn't our weekend. BTDT...

The ribs this past weekend were just as good, if not slightly better in taste, than Kennesaw. Tenderness was probably equal.

Uncle Buds BBQ
09-11-2012, 04:55 PM
7-8-5
8-8-9
9-9-9
9-9-8
8-9-8
8-7-7

We got two cards on being overdone. One card looked EXACTLY like Hicktown's...almost like they were printed at home prior.

So that's three 9's in taste, two 9's in tenderness, two 8's in tenderness.

Looking at the Rib scores, I wouldn't be surprised to learn that two competitors in the top 6 overall were at the same table.

It's over, it wasn't our weekend. BTDT...

The ribs this past weekend were just as good, if not slightly better in taste, than Kennesaw. Tenderness was probably equal.

Thanks for sharing your scores.

For others out their viewing this post...I'm a cook since 2007 who decided that this year I would try to judge 30 contests to get my masters. I'll come up short my about 8 contests!

With that..I'm trying to figure out what others turn in and what the AVERAGE judge likes. So...this is my opinion....

1. Judges like to hide their score card (myself included) but from what I have seen a 2 point swing is VERY common. The 7 in taste from judge 6 has the largest impact but since there is no standard to judge by...he thought the taste was just "above average" where 2 judges thought "excelent".

2. The 7 from judge 1 in appearance maybe questionable but again without a standard what does he judge by? As a cook I tend to give a lot of 9's where my table mates give 8's.

3. The 5 from judge 1...who knows??? I can tell you that this year I have bitten into a rib and get a clean bite...while the judge next to me gets a complete pull away.

Maybe...just maybe...with the new KCBS scoring system that will track scores by table and judge will be useful in the future. It's hard to tell until there is enough data available.

I know it doesn't help much...but...that's what I think.

This weekend instead of judging I'll be competing at Atlanta so if any Brethren want to stop by we can bitch about those dang judges together. :-D

Lake Dogs
09-12-2012, 11:56 AM
The problem with some/many comment cards isnt so much that they're not needed/warranted, but the comments often times are wrong. I cannot tell you how
many times I'll hear judges, who have no experience behind a pit whatsoever, talk
about how overcooked this was when it was obviously tough and UNDERcooked.

They really should stick strickly to the facts, ala. "it was mushy", or "it was tough", etc.

I sat next to a lady this weekend who went on and on about the babybacks at the table... Come to find out she was talking about a riblet piece of a spare rib that someone submitted. My point is that many judges dont even know the cuts.

Mind you, to know good Q and what meets the tenderness criteria you dont have to
know all of this, but you shouldnt fill out comment cards as if you're knowledgable when
in truth you have no clue.

I filled out a comment card this weekend, at a GBA contest, gave a rib a 9 in tenderness (vs. perfect 10). It tasted great, and was VERY tender, BUT it wouldn't pull from the bone, not at all. BEAUTIFUL bite marks in it and it was something else, BUT it didnt meet the GBA criteria at all. I figured the guy would want to know why that great rib was getting all 9's in tenderness when otherwise it was possibly a winning rib.

DawgPhan
09-12-2012, 12:34 PM
that is a really good point and one that I hadn't really thought of. I would believe that the ribs were a little undercooked more than I would believe they were overcooked.

If they thought that tough meant overcooked, then we might actually have something.

tough or mush are more descriptive.

AUBBQ
09-12-2012, 01:21 PM
Great point Lake Dogs.

Lake Dogs
09-12-2012, 03:05 PM
that is a really good point and one that I hadn't really thought of. I would believe that the ribs were a little undercooked more than I would believe they were overcooked.

If they thought that tough meant overcooked, then we might actually have something.

tough or mush are more descriptive.


I kid you not, I've seen this type of talk among judges at least one time in every contest I've judged. They think tough is overcooked... They may thing mushy is undercooked (can be in Loin, but otherwise not). They'll talk about some Q's injection having no idea whether that person injected or not, and all kinds of stuff. Mind you, they were right, it was tough, or mushy, or tasted bizarre, but the comments are way off...

My guess is you got one of those; the person who knows Q but has NO CLUE how to make Q.

Mind you, it still could've been a nim-rod, however most judges I know of are fairly accurate to dead on with their judgement, just not with determining what caused the problem. For this reason I'd really like to see comment cards pre-printed with check-box type of comments on them, of which "undercooked" and "overcooked" aren't on the list.


I do have a question to fellow cooks; is it even possible to cook a loin so long that it gets mushy and falling apart like a butt can? I've never cooked one nearly that long to find out.

Pigs on Fire
09-12-2012, 03:15 PM
I do have a question to fellow cooks; is it even possible to cook a loin so long that it gets mushy and falling apart like a butt can? I've never cooked one nearly that long to find out.

Not mushy so much, but 'falling apart'. The white meat of the loin is, as you know, a much more lean and linear muscle. The small amount of fat and connective tissue in it will break down like any other muscle and make the strands fall apart.

The problem is that it will be dry/mealy even if it's braised, IME. The darker meat on the rib and sirloin ends will fair better.

Yankees take pork loins, put them in Crock Pots with Kraft BBQ sauce and make "Pulled Pork".... :grin:

Lake Dogs
09-12-2012, 05:42 PM
Not mushy so much, but 'falling apart'. The white meat of the loin is, as you know, a much more lean and linear muscle. The small amount of fat and connective tissue in it will break down like any other muscle and make the strands fall apart.

The problem is that it will be dry/mealy even if it's braised, IME. The darker meat on the rib and sirloin ends will fair better.

Yankees take pork loins, put them in Crock Pots with Kraft BBQ sauce and make "Pulled Pork".... :grin:

I heard one lady judge talk about, after judging loin, how her piece was mushy and almost falling apart and way overcooked. Thinking to myself, the only way I know to make one mushy is to have it undercooked, I guess it could be so mushy that it appeared to almost fall apart... I dunno...

The only time I cooked one anywhere near falling apart is was bone dry and tough... I didnt want to correct her there, but it hit me like when talking about brisket, ribs, etc. that she probably had a piece undercooked and didnt know the difference.

MattG
09-12-2012, 09:23 PM
Really nicely put together Dave. It was good to see you again.

Uncle Buds BBQ
09-13-2012, 06:12 AM
Really nicely put together Dave. It was good to see you again.
Thanks. Sorry I got only one shot of the "Pot's BBQ" rig. It looks like a great operation.