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tmcmaster
08-30-2012, 02:30 PM
So, this one has been beaten to death I am sure, but I am still questioning...

And maybe I should simply ask for responses from judges, but...

Does inclusion of burnt ends in any way effect your brisket scoring, i.e, if there are NO burnt ends, does the entry automatically get a lower score from you?

Parts_Guy
08-30-2012, 02:43 PM
I think you will get answers from those that think you should always put them in. I think the best answer is, if they are good put in them. If not, don't.

Trucky1008
08-30-2012, 02:48 PM
I think you will get answers from those that think you should always put them in. I think the best answer is, if they are good put in them. If not, don't.

I concur.

Uncle Buds BBQ
08-30-2012, 03:32 PM
A good judge will score the meat "as presented"! So excluding something does not reduce the score.
:deadhorse:

timzcardz
08-30-2012, 03:33 PM
FWIW, 4 weeks ago I truned in burnt ends ONLY, because I thought they were so good that I wouldn't want to eat the slices if I had a choice between the two.

Took 4th place out of 42 teams.

We've struggled with brisket, and that was our best brisket finish ever.

sdbbq1234
08-30-2012, 06:54 PM
As a judge myself, I say NO.

KCBS rules say to score on what looks appealing. It says nothing about what "has to be in the brisket box" other than brisket.

Logically thinking, when I am judging, I only see 1 box at a time. I cannot go back and change a score after I have recorded it. If I have anticipation of a box (or boxes) that might have burnt ends, and after seeing all 6 boxes none of them have burnt ends, but yet I scored lower than a 9 based on my anticipation (geez, starting to sound like an old commercial on TV) of a box with burnt ends, then I have not done what was/is expected of me as a judge. If have essentially "possibly" robbed someone of a perfect score based on something that I "anticipated".

Just ain't farking fair IMHO.

wallace

Bikini BBQ
08-30-2012, 09:04 PM
How much or how many pieces of brisket go "in" a box ? That will help me decide if and when I do a brisket for a comp. (sorry for hijacking thread) Thx, for replies....

cvath
08-30-2012, 10:32 PM
As a judge I judge only what is in the box. I don't deduct points or anything else based on the absence of burnt ends.

Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 2

bignburlyman
08-31-2012, 06:43 AM
How much or how many pieces of brisket go "in" a box ? That will help me decide if and when I do a brisket for a comp. (sorry for hijacking thread) Thx, for replies....

KCBS requires 6 seperate pieces, not sure of all the other sanctioning bodies. I believe there are a couple that require 7 pieces. So if you put slices and burnt ends put 6 of each. You would not get a DQ (I believe) if you put 3 slices and 3 burnt ends, but you would not be liked very well at the table.

dosvans
08-31-2012, 06:50 AM
We just recently completed our 12th contest. The first 6 contests, I put burnt ends in the box. The next 5 I only put slices in the box, and then on the 12th contest I included burnt ends (they were really good!!). After analyzing all my appearance scores since I started, I noticed our appearance scores were actually lower for the 5 contests when we did not put burnt ends in the box. The only thing that changed as fas the arrangement of the boxes, was that we did not have the row of burnt ends in the box. We just made sure to added more slices to compensate for no burnt ends. I do think that there are some Judges out there who score lower on appearance for no burnt ends in the box. BTW, we got all 9's in appearance for the 12th contest when we decided to add burnt ends!!

Balls Casten
08-31-2012, 08:00 AM
Aside from their quality/condition .. why wouldnt you put them in?

rookiedad
08-31-2012, 09:32 AM
why even include slices at all? carmelized deckle cubes are the thighs of the beef catagory, slices are the breast of the beef catagory. it seems to me that slices might be the risk, and if judges must only judge whats in the box and brisket is brisket why not just scratch slices completely?

timzcardz
08-31-2012, 09:35 AM
why even include slices at all? carmelized deckle cubes are the thighs of the beef catagory, slices are the breast of the beef catagory. it seems to me that slices might be the risk, and if judges must only judge whats in the box and brisket is brisket why not just scratch slices completely?


Shhhhh.

Others might take you up on it and make it tougher on me. :wink:

Pack-A-Smokes
08-31-2012, 09:46 AM
FWIW, 4 weeks ago I truned in burnt ends ONLY, because I thought they were so good that I wouldn't want to eat the slices if I had a choice between the two.
.

I kind of thought about this at a competition last weekend after the brisket turned out a little dry. Instead I put in the slices and cut them where I had enough room to also load the box with the burnt ends that turned out great. 9th out of 42.

As to the question. If placing burnt ends in the box helps the overall appearance and they are good then yes.

Stoke&Smoke
08-31-2012, 10:49 AM
As a judge myself, I say NO.

KCBS rules say to score on what looks appealing. It says nothing about what "has to be in the brisket box" other than brisket.

Logically thinking, when I am judging, I only see 1 box at a time. I cannot go back and change a score after I have recorded it. If I have anticipation of a box (or boxes) that might have burnt ends, and after seeing all 6 boxes none of them have burnt ends, but yet I scored lower than a 9 based on my anticipation (geez, starting to sound like an old commercial on TV) of a box with burnt ends, then I have not done what was/is expected of me as a judge. If have essentially "possibly" robbed someone of a perfect score based on something that I "anticipated".

Just ain't farking fair IMHO.

wallace


Haven't judged in a while, but I believe KCBS rules say judge meat as it is presented, no mention of what is appealing. And each box is to be judged by its own individual merits, not compared to others. If you are comparing box to box, you aren't doing what's expected of you as a judge either

CBQ
08-31-2012, 12:29 PM
Haven't judged in a while, but I believe KCBS rules say judge meat as it is presented, no mention of what is appealing. And each box is to be judged by its own individual merits, not compared to others. If you are comparing box to box, you aren't doing what's expected of you as a judge either

All true, but human nature tends to override the guidelines. "That chicken looks great, but the previous one looked even better, so I can't give this one a 9 too because it's not as good." That's not the guideline, but you know people think like that.

boogiesnap
08-31-2012, 04:23 PM
All true, but human nature tends to override the guidelines. "That chicken looks great, but the previous one looked even better, so I can't give this one a 9 too because it's not as good." That's not the guideline, but you know people think like that.

i know what your saying but if it doesn't appear as good as the 9 to you then it's not a 9. a 9 is 9 regardless of what came before or after.

sdbbq1234
08-31-2012, 06:15 PM
Haven't judged in a while, but I believe KCBS rules say judge meat as it is presented, no mention of what is appealing. And each box is to be judged by its own individual merits, not compared to others. If you are comparing box to box, you aren't doing what's expected of you as a judge either

"I will judge each entry on its own merits in keeping with the KCBS standards".

Yes, those are the words. And while the words "appealing" are not in the judges code of conduct, that is what was presented by KCBS "verbally".

Maybe I need to clarify my previous comments in that "I judge each box based on its own looks (merits?)."

Remember, I cannot change my score once recorded!

My comments were simply to say that I would not score based on a box that did not have burnt ends. That is not what the scoring is about. If KCBS wants to make burnt ends part of the scoring, then so be it.

Until then, I will score based on what is in the box WITHOUT anticipation of what I think "should" be there as in burnt ends.

wallace

Hogtie N' Ride
08-31-2012, 09:36 PM
Turn in your best, burnt ends or slices. The judges have to take both if you present both and average the score for the two presentations. I'd only put in both if both are equal in quality, otherwise only put the best in the box.