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4 smokin butts
08-28-2012, 10:59 PM
just couious ,contest this past weekend,gave u empty envelope with form inside at awards,fil it out or no check.......every call,,,,100.00or 300. 00.....so team winning 100.00 hadto fill out w-9 to get paid kcbs web says 15,000.00 in cash?????:crazy:

Diva
08-28-2012, 11:18 PM
I'm not following what you're saying. We've cooked contests that have W-9's in the envelope. Usually have one filled out in my purse to hand over immediately and the check is mailed. What's the dealio, Bro?

4 smokin butts
08-28-2012, 11:32 PM
just heard rumbling,we won 100.00 fill out irs papers???/ thought 600.00 was paper time.... many contests cash ...green stuff... raytown cash,not sure on rgc or gc .... just saying,cash is cash ......this weekend states at quapaw w-9 is filled out with app.........ok organizer ,when approched on suggistions,i mentioned forms,.....he went off on me.....now were doingsomthing illleagle wanting cash.....if they only new what we spend comming to there city:grin:

huminie
08-28-2012, 11:50 PM
They can require it for any amount, but the $600 point is where they are required to send you a tax doc at the end of the year.

It shouldn't really matter since you are reporting it on your taxes whether it is cash or check anyway, right? I mean, it would be illegal to not report earnings. You can always claim expenses to offset the winnings so you don't pay tax on it, but you have to report it either way.

Getting cash saves you the hassle of filling out the form, but it still needs to be reported.

caseydog
08-29-2012, 12:05 AM
Being self employed, I keep a signed W-9 on the computer to send out to my customers. It is necessary for payers in order for them to file a 1099 in January. It is standard practice -- just do it. It is the law, and it is incredibly easy.

You can use your costs as deductions. It's not that hard to figure out. Keep you receipts -- or not, and bitch and moan about your taxes. Seriously, it is not a big deal if you took the time to keep decent records. I do my own taxes with Turbo Tax, and I get it done in a few hours.

CD

djqualls
08-29-2012, 03:08 AM
The Quapaw deal is a casino regulation. Hope to meet you if you are going!

Balls Casten
08-29-2012, 06:46 AM
I agree, I'm uncomfortable handing my social over to someone that is placing it on an unknown computer.
At Ames we were asked to fill one out when we entered. No problem if you win something but to ask for it ahead of time is a bit much.

dhuffjr
08-29-2012, 07:50 AM
They asked for it in Marietta Ohio. When I called questioning them I was told it would be okay to fill it out on Saturday if needed.....and that the past winners had declined to turn it in early. I took that as a clue to not submit a form in advance LOL We didn't win but we didn't do too bad either.

Teamfour
08-29-2012, 08:15 AM
I agree, I'm uncomfortable handing my social over to someone that is placing it on an unknown computer.


Me too, that is why I obtained an Employee Identification Number (EIN) from the IRS. Easy to get and free, and it eliminates the need to provide a SSN.

glenntm
08-29-2012, 09:34 AM
I'd say more that 1/2 of the events we entry have you fill one out when you arrive or before awards. We use the LLC ID number.

weatherman
08-29-2012, 10:19 AM
Ok.. what if you have a sponser who buys stuff or donates meat or something like that. You can't write that off on your taxes and some people won't give you their information for you to turn in to get that check sent to them? some of the expenses go to the competitor while others go to the sponsor. some sponsors might take up all the expenses. How do they get the check then?

tyotrain
08-29-2012, 12:16 PM
My team is not a LLC or anything like that it's just a BBQ team. My ? Is can I still keep my recites and clam it as a expense? Kind of new to this. Should I keep any other records or just recites that I spend on the team?


Have fun and happy smoking
BBQ UP

caseydog
08-29-2012, 12:26 PM
My team is not a LLC or anything like that it's just a BBQ team. My ? Is can I still keep my recites and clam it as a expense? Kind of new to this. Should I keep any other records or just recites that I spend on the team?


Have fun and happy smoking
BBQ UP

You do not have to incorporate to write off expenses as a "business." Just set yourself up as a "sole-proprietor," and keep track of your winnings and expenses. Now, if your expenses exceed your winnings for every year, it could be a red flag for the IRS. A business that loses money year after year will eventually look suspect.

CD

Balls Casten
08-29-2012, 01:06 PM
Im no account so easy on this advice ...
Use a credit card for you bbq expenses then should you win something big and you or your tax guy need recepts you can go back and get them.

tyotrain
08-29-2012, 01:17 PM
Im no account so easy on this advice ...
Use a credit card for you bbq expenses then should you win something big and you or your tax guy need recepts you can go back and get them.

My ? Is do I have to set up a sole proprietorship to do that.


Have fun and happy smoking
BBQ UP

AZScott
08-29-2012, 01:37 PM
My team is not a LLC or anything like that it's just a BBQ team. My ? Is can I still keep my recites and clam it as a expense? Kind of new to this. Should I keep any other records or just recites that I spend on the team?


Have fun and happy smoking
BBQ UP

My accountant ran all of our earnings and expenses for the past two years as a hobby. Keep all your receipts and a tally of winnings and as long as you aren't making too much you should be fine. This year everything will be ran as an LLC.

Pigs on Fire
08-29-2012, 01:52 PM
Wow.

I'm sure to take some heat for this next statement, but it's the truth....some of you don't need to be voting....you have no clue about simple tax procedures.

1. The beginning number for the requirement to issue a 1099 is $600.01. Not "$600"...

2. Most of these entities that put on contests are municipal or county governments. They are going to follow the law and they are going to make sure their accounting is as tight as possible. I don't like it any more than anyone else, but it's the current tax code. If YOU don't like it, start voting for someone other than the morons that are on the ballot in November....turn the channel from ESPN or American Idol in February and March....

3. There's probably 8-10 teams in the entire United States that will have to pay taxes on net income from BBQ contests in any given year. They'll be the top 10 teams ranked at the National BBQ Rankings. Other than that, if you do more than 2 contests a year and don't win Grand at all of them, your expenses (including mileage) is going to severely outweigh any winnings you receive. This means you won't pay taxes on any of your winnings. It's just a matter of keeping your receipts and mileage records and reporting it all. You won't even pay FICA taxes.

5. It doesn't matter you have LLC'ed up, if it is "ran as a hobby" or anything else. It's friggin' income pointed towards whoever filled out the W9 form at the contest. That particular income can have expenses charged against it. More expenses than income = $0 net income to tax against.

I'm going to bet that an organizer who has run a contest or two and needs to have W9s on hand has figured out it's easier to get them for EVERY payout than to hunt down the teams that took home more than $600.00. This way, they only issue a 1099 to the teams (person) who took home more than $600.00 and don't waste their time on the ones that finished 4th with a $200 check/cash...It's NOT required for them to report the $200 and it saves them paperwork/bookkeeping by NOT issuing you a 1099 for the $200...

Pack-A-Smokes
08-29-2012, 02:04 PM
I would much rather fill a W9 out if I have to. I really don't like sending them in with my contest app. for my number to be on file with the organizer. One organizer told me the reason he started requiring them prior to the contest is because he attempted to get the info after the contest by mail and the GC of the comp never returned the form.

Smokedelic
08-29-2012, 02:11 PM
My team is not a LLC or anything like that it's just a BBQ team. My ? Is can I still keep my recites and clam it as a expense? Kind of new to this. Should I keep any other records or just recites that I spend on the team?


Have fun and happy smoking
BBQ UP

I am not an accountant.

You'll report any 1099 income you receive on a Schedule C form when you do your taxes. You report your gross income you received from bbq contests, regardless of if you received a 1099 for it or not. You also report all of your bbq expenses you incurred on the same 1099 form. Unless bbq is your primary business, you can only offset up to the amount of income you received from contests with the bbq expenses you incurred. In other words, if you won $3000 in prize money for the year, you can only offset that income with up to $3000 in bbq expenses.

There are IRS guidelines that determine whether your hobby is actually a business or not which can have further tax implications. When in doubt, consult a CPA.

...I am not an accountant.

caseydog
08-29-2012, 02:14 PM
I would much rather fill a W9 out if I have to. I really don't like sending them in with my contest app. for my number to be on file with the organizer. One organizer told me the reason he started requiring them prior to the contest is because he attempted to get the info after the contest by mail and the GC of the comp never returned the form.

I'm sure that's why they ask for them up front. Some of my new customers over the years would not mail my first payment until they had a W-9 on file, even if the amount of the first invoice was less than $600 (okay, $601). The $601 minimum is not per invoice, it is for the year, so they want the W-9 on file from the start.

It seems like organizers could just hold onto checks until a W-9 is turned into them, and not make everyone turn one in, up front. But, I'm sure the easiest thing for the organizer to do is get one from everyone up front.

CD

Candy Sue
08-29-2012, 03:13 PM
I only wish I had lots of reasons to fill out w-9s!

Actually I'm very proud that one year I was actually in the black income/expenses with comps. Only been doing this since 2004...

jbrink01
08-29-2012, 04:10 PM
Wow.

3. There's probably 8-10 teams in the entire United States that will have to pay taxes on net income from BBQ contests in any given year. They'll be the top 10 teams ranked at the National BBQ Rankings. Other than that, if you do more than 2 contests a year and don't win Grand at all of them, your expenses (including mileage) is going to severely outweigh any winnings you receive. This means you won't pay taxes on any of your winnings. It's just a matter of keeping your receipts and mileage records and reporting it all. You won't even pay FICA taxes.
...

I disagree. You forget sponsors. If you want to be honest, all of their funding must be counted as income. If you are lucky and frugal, you CAN get to break even or better and not "win Grand at all of them"....

riblette
08-29-2012, 07:52 PM
I optained a different tax ID # specific to the BBQ team. It was easy to do, and it keeps my SSN from needing to be supplied to anyone in the BBQ world. Just a thought.

Pigs on Fire: Happy Angry Over-Reaction Day, Dude!

Teamfour
08-29-2012, 08:24 PM
I optained a different tax ID # specific to the BBQ team. It was easy to do, and it keeps my SSN from needing to be supplied to anyone in the BBQ world.

Yep. That is what I was referring to earlier when I recommended getting an EIN.

tyotrain
08-29-2012, 08:31 PM
Wow.

I'm sure to take some heat for this next statement, but it's the truth....some of you don't need to be voting....you have no clue about simple tax procedures.

1. The beginning number for the requirement to issue a 1099 is $600.01. Not "$600"...

2. Most of these entities that put on contests are municipal or county governments. They are going to follow the law and they are going to make sure their accounting is as tight as possible. I don't like it any more than anyone else, but it's the current tax code. If YOU don't like it, start voting for someone other than the morons that are on the ballot in November....turn the channel from ESPN or American Idol in February and March....

3. There's probably 8-10 teams in the entire United States that will have to pay taxes on net income from BBQ contests in any given year. They'll be the top 10 teams ranked at the National BBQ Rankings. Other than that, if you do more than 2 contests a year and don't win Grand at all of them, your expenses (including mileage) is going to severely outweigh any winnings you receive. This means you won't pay taxes on any of your winnings. It's just a matter of keeping your receipts and mileage records and reporting it all. You won't even pay FICA taxes.

5. It doesn't matter you have LLC'ed up, if it is "ran as a hobby" or anything else. It's friggin' income pointed towards whoever filled out the W9 form at the contest. That particular income can have expenses charged against it. More expenses than income = $0 net income to tax against.

I'm going to bet that an organizer who has run a contest or two and needs to have W9s on hand has figured out it's easier to get them for EVERY payout than to hunt down the teams that took home more than $600.00. This way, they only issue a 1099 to the teams (person) who took home more than $600.00 and don't waste their time on the ones that finished 4th with a $200 check/cash...It's NOT required for them to report the $200 and it saves them paperwork/bookkeeping by NOT issuing you a 1099 for the $200...

I am fully aware of the morons that are in office.. I am a back country hillbilly and even I no you can't spend more than you make....

sdbbq1234
08-29-2012, 09:03 PM
Hellz Bellz! I hope I "have" to fill out a form for the tax folks; that would mean I actually won something!!!!

wallace

Muzzlebrake
08-29-2012, 09:13 PM
Wow.

I'm sure to take some heat for this next statement, but it's the truth....some of you don't need to be voting....you have no clue about simple tax procedures.

1. The beginning number for the requirement to issue a 1099 is $600.01. Not "$600"...

2. Most of these entities that put on contests are municipal or county governments. They are going to follow the law and they are going to make sure their accounting is as tight as possible. I don't like it any more than anyone else, but it's the current tax code. If YOU don't like it, start voting for someone other than the morons that are on the ballot in November....turn the channel from ESPN or American Idol in February and March....

3. There's probably 8-10 teams in the entire United States that will have to pay taxes on net income from BBQ contests in any given year. They'll be the top 10 teams ranked at the National BBQ Rankings. Other than that, if you do more than 2 contests a year and don't win Grand at all of them, your expenses (including mileage) is going to severely outweigh any winnings you receive. This means you won't pay taxes on any of your winnings. It's just a matter of keeping your receipts and mileage records and reporting it all. You won't even pay FICA taxes.

5. It doesn't matter you have LLC'ed up, if it is "ran as a hobby" or anything else. It's friggin' income pointed towards whoever filled out the W9 form at the contest. That particular income can have expenses charged against it. More expenses than income = $0 net income to tax against.

I'm going to bet that an organizer who has run a contest or two and needs to have W9s on hand has figured out it's easier to get them for EVERY payout than to hunt down the teams that took home more than $600.00. This way, they only issue a 1099 to the teams (person) who took home more than $600.00 and don't waste their time on the ones that finished 4th with a $200 check/cash...It's NOT required for them to report the $200 and it saves them paperwork/bookkeeping by NOT issuing you a 1099 for the $200...

WOW!

That is one of the most pompous self righteous posts I have read in a long time. In addition to inferring that the folks who posted prior to you were morons who do little more than watch reality TV, you are wrong in nearly every point you try to make.

1. IAW IRS 2012 Instructions For Form 1099 MISC, a 1099 is required for "At least $600 in rents, services (including parts and materials), prizes and awards, ........."

2. Most contest are not run by any type of government. In fact the highest paying contests such as Sam's Club and SOTW are not even run by chartiable organization they are put on by private for profit companies.

3. First of all there is no way you can even begin to quantify your statement about how many teams may need to report income. I have done " more than 2 contests", haven't won a single one of them but if I happen to win the Royal Open trust me I will be in the black for the year. Unless you are employee of the BBQ team you compete with you will not pay FICA, no matter what your team's income is. If it is your business and reported as income in Box 7, you may be subject to Self Employment Tax. Prize monies are to be reported in box 3 which is not subject to Self Employment Tax

4. If you take expenses from your team as a hobby you may not take more expenses than income you have earned and are not able to,claim a loss. If it is a business you may be able to take more expenses than your income and claim a loss.

Finally issuing a 1099 to anyone receiving payout actually can assist in reducing paperwork and bookkeeping time and expense by providing a standardized form accounting for all prize distributions irregardless of amount.

You might want to not only lighten up a little bit brother, you may even consider a little research. I even managed to read the IRS publication while I watched a football game but hey I'm just a ESPN watching idiot that doesn't know simple tax codes...........

4 smokin butts
08-29-2012, 10:50 PM
wow!!!!!!!what happened too going out and having a good time bbqing,and fellowship with freinds......i know if your points chasing,iknow these forms are sometimes,must be ....for higher awards....my original intent on this post was ,15,000.00 in cash and prizes, advertised ,at least say with w9s,and from what im seeing 600.00 or less dosent need one.:loco:

jbrink01
08-29-2012, 11:02 PM
Looks like you opened a can of worms...;-)

4 smokin butts
08-29-2012, 11:27 PM
thats what breathern do .......anilize it out....mayby'' rebel'' smokers is wearing off on me ......organizers want input from us ,when we give it , or _one team gives it,your the out cast,in there eyes.....just looking out for us smokers,we are what makes there contest,we spend money on gas,food ice ,etc:grin:

DocStl
08-30-2012, 08:33 AM
The problem with Lincoln contest is I got 2 calls $110.00 and $130.00. Each call they required me to fill out another W-9. You get 3 calls, you fill out 3 separate W-9s. I questioned it and they said it was equired by the city. I have been self employed for 30 years and business' that pay me OVER $600.00 I fill one out. I won $240.00 total, no W-9 should have been required at all, much less 2 complete. They know how much each team won ahead of time as the checks are pre written. Go figure...

Smokinclone
08-30-2012, 08:54 AM
Doc, I'm pretty sure that was just easier for them to fill out multiples for everyone that won a prize to make sure they got them all filled out instead of trying to track cooks down. Could have accomplished the same thing by having every team fill out one at the cooks meeting but that would have drawn the same criticism.
We expect and hope to fill out a W-9 at every contest, if we don't that means we are probably not doing very well. Even if it is cash, it still has to be reported. That's what the book says anyway. :)

Pigs on Fire
08-30-2012, 09:40 AM
WOW!

That is one of the most pompous self righteous posts I have read in a long time. In addition to inferring that the folks who posted prior to you were morons who do little more than watch reality TV, you are wrong in nearly every point you try to make.

You're right. I need to go back to school and take some remedial reading/comprehension courses...I had a tough time making it through those first few posts...

I'll try to do better next time, Muzzzle

Muzzlebrake
08-30-2012, 01:50 PM
For many of these organizations, it's just easier and/or more cost efffective for their accounting systems to issue one for any payout. It leaves an easy to follow trail to show where all expenditures go. Lots of contest are organizers have to account for things to many levels such as local BoDs that impose regulations above and beyond those required federal and state agencies.
It's not really that big of a deal. Keep in mind though that you are required to report all income above the threshold from all sources. It's very possible that you may only have won $200 at a contest but do that at 12 contests and you better have a talk with your tax preparer.

Muzzlebrake
08-30-2012, 02:00 PM
You're right. I need to go back to school and take some remedial reading/comprehension courses...I had a tough time making it through those first few posts...

I'll try to do better next time, Muzzzle

Think I get what you're saying and I apologize if I seemed too harsh, it's the NY smart ash in me. I'm hoping next year to compete down your way, maybe we can share a tasty and complain about " The Man" :becky:

:rockon:

Cgraue01
08-30-2012, 09:08 PM
wow.

I'm sure to take some heat for this next statement, but it's the truth....some of you don't need to be voting....you have no clue about simple tax procedures.

1. The beginning number for the requirement to issue a 1099 is $600.01. Not "$600"...

2. Most of these entities that put on contests are municipal or county governments. They are going to follow the law and they are going to make sure their accounting is as tight as possible. I don't like it any more than anyone else, but it's the current tax code. If you don't like it, start voting for someone other than the morons that are on the ballot in november....turn the channel from espn or american idol in february and march....

3. There's probably 8-10 teams in the entire united states that will have to pay taxes on net income from bbq contests in any given year. They'll be the top 10 teams ranked at the national bbq rankings. Other than that, if you do more than 2 contests a year and don't win grand at all of them, your expenses (including mileage) is going to severely outweigh any winnings you receive. This means you won't pay taxes on any of your winnings. It's just a matter of keeping your receipts and mileage records and reporting it all. You won't even pay fica taxes.

5. It doesn't matter you have llc'ed up, if it is "ran as a hobby" or anything else. It's friggin' income pointed towards whoever filled out the w9 form at the contest. That particular income can have expenses charged against it. More expenses than income = $0 net income to tax against.

I'm going to bet that an organizer who has run a contest or two and needs to have w9s on hand has figured out it's easier to get them for every payout than to hunt down the teams that took home more than $600.00. This way, they only issue a 1099 to the teams (person) who took home more than $600.00 and don't waste their time on the ones that finished 4th with a $200 check/cash...it's not required for them to report the $200 and it saves them paperwork/bookkeeping by not issuing you a 1099 for the $200...


amen!!!!!!!!!!!1

Cgraue01
08-30-2012, 09:08 PM
Wow.

I'm sure to take some heat for this next statement, but it's the truth....some of you don't need to be voting....you have no clue about simple tax procedures.

1. The beginning number for the requirement to issue a 1099 is $600.01. Not "$600"...

2. Most of these entities that put on contests are municipal or county governments. They are going to follow the law and they are going to make sure their accounting is as tight as possible. I don't like it any more than anyone else, but it's the current tax code. If YOU don't like it, start voting for someone other than the morons that are on the ballot in November....turn the channel from ESPN or American Idol in February and March....

3. There's probably 8-10 teams in the entire United States that will have to pay taxes on net income from BBQ contests in any given year. They'll be the top 10 teams ranked at the National BBQ Rankings. Other than that, if you do more than 2 contests a year and don't win Grand at all of them, your expenses (including mileage) is going to severely outweigh any winnings you receive. This means you won't pay taxes on any of your winnings. It's just a matter of keeping your receipts and mileage records and reporting it all. You won't even pay FICA taxes.

5. It doesn't matter you have LLC'ed up, if it is "ran as a hobby" or anything else. It's friggin' income pointed towards whoever filled out the W9 form at the contest. That particular income can have expenses charged against it. More expenses than income = $0 net income to tax against.

I'm going to bet that an organizer who has run a contest or two and needs to have W9s on hand has figured out it's easier to get them for EVERY payout than to hunt down the teams that took home more than $600.00. This way, they only issue a 1099 to the teams (person) who took home more than $600.00 and don't waste their time on the ones that finished 4th with a $200 check/cash...It's NOT required for them to report the $200 and it saves them paperwork/bookkeeping by NOT issuing you a 1099 for the $200...

Amen!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DocStl
08-31-2012, 09:36 AM
Doc, I'm pretty sure that was just easier for them to fill out multiples for everyone that won a prize to make sure they got them all filled out instead of trying to track cooks down. Could have accomplished the same thing by having every team fill out one at the cooks meeting but that would have drawn the same criticism.
We expect and hope to fill out a W-9 at every contest, if we don't that means we are probably not doing very well. Even if it is cash, it still has to be reported. That's what the book says anyway. :)

I honestly dont mind filling one out (when needed) .
But, if your writing checks for awards back at the office, you can see who won what. If team B has 2 calls and the add up to 300.00. just put the checks in the envelope. If team J gets 2 calls, and the top 600.00. Put a w-9 in HIS envelope. That way I dont have 3 w-9s floating around with my name address and SSN. (Didnt have my tax id number with me) Just a suggestion.

Also if Im filling out a w-9 I cant see whos getting call ;-)

CBQ
08-31-2012, 01:45 PM
The problem with Lincoln contest is I got 2 calls $110.00 and $130.00. Each call they required me to fill out another W-9. You get 3 calls, you fill out 3 separate W-9s. I questioned it and they said it was equired by the city. I have been self employed for 30 years and business' that pay me OVER $600.00 I fill one out. I won $240.00 total, no W-9 should have been required at all, much less 2 complete. They know how much each team won ahead of time as the checks are pre written. Go figure...

Sam's Club requires you to turn in a W-9 at the cook's meeting, and that's fine with me. Doesn't make any sense to fill out a W-9 for each check. If you do well, you could be filling out 5 of 'em. I am sure the IRS would prefer 1 over 5 too.