PDA

View Full Version : What in the world are judges thinking


Buckscent
08-28-2012, 09:28 AM
I judged a kcbs comp this weekend and a couple
Of the judges left their score cards on the table
As they where scoring. Some of the chicken box's
Looked like they just threw the chicken in the box
Not trimmed, burnt looking and not just good. I looked
At their presentation scores and they scored them
9's. Now I had already had my score down
Before I looked at theirs since they where not
Covering them up. I later found out one of them
Was a master judge. I just don't understand it,
Am I just being strict????

Sledneck
08-28-2012, 09:36 AM
Did they have coolers? I was at a table judging once where 2 judges were taking the smallest bite possible and then putting each meat in zip locks in the cooler. I glanced at the scorecard and they both had 999 for everything they judged.

DawgPhan
08-28-2012, 11:18 AM
wait till it sinks in that you are the judge that the teams complained about after the awards.

Gadragonfly
08-28-2012, 11:50 AM
I judged a kcbs comp this weekend and a couple
Of the judges left their score cards on the table
As they where scoring. Some of the chicken box's
Looked like they just threw the chicken in the box
Not trimmed, burnt looking and not just good. I looked
At their presentation scores and they scored them
9's. Now I had already had my score down
Before I looked at theirs since they where not
Covering them up. I later found out one of them
Was a master judge. I just don't understand it,
Am I just being strict????

Out of curiosity, was the chicken actually burned? I've judged chicken that appeared dark, as if it were burned, but then the taste was very good. The dark appearance was the sauce that was used. I think we, as judges, and I can speak only for the Southeast, give the benefit of the doubt on appearance scores. I've given low appearance scores when warranted, but not trimmed? I'm assuming you're saying they weren't little pillows or round thighs. There's nothing wrong with chicken looking like chicken. If it truly warrants a low score then you are justified in giving a low score but that's a very subjective category. Were your taste and tenderness scores close? Julie

MAP
08-28-2012, 11:57 AM
What in the world are judges thinking?

That is what I wonder as a cook some times. Had a Judge leave me a comment card for pork that said "Tastes Outstanding, needs more sauce" Taste score a 7. Got 9s on taste from all the other judges.

Buckscent
08-28-2012, 01:16 PM
It was not just the chicken. It was a couple of
Catagories. But as far as the chicken goes it was a
So so taste. I think as judges when we need to be fair
But if that box does not look like u can't wait
To eat it then judge appearance accordingly
For appearance only not the "well it might taste good"
So I'll give appearance a better score. And I gave
It a 7 on appearance and 7 and 8 on taste and
Tenderness. I will never give a 6 unless it
Very bad. Cooks spend alot of time and money
Cooking and deserve the best honest score
They can get. And If i do give a 6, which I did
For brisket, I will give them a comment card

Gadragonfly
08-28-2012, 01:39 PM
It was not just the chicken. It was a couple of
Catagories. But as far as the chicken goes it was a
So so taste. I think as judges when we need to be fair
But if that box does not look like u can't wait
To eat it then judge appearance accordingly
For appearance only not the "well it might taste good"
So I'll give appearance a better score. And I gave
It a 7 on appearance and 7 and 8 on taste and
Tenderness. I will never give a 6 unless it
Very bad. Cooks spend alot of time and money
Cooking and deserve the best honest score
They can get. And If i do give a 6, which I did
For brisket, I will give them a comment card

It sounds like you gave a fair score and perhaps the other judges did score high. This is why I think judges should take the time to discuss the boxes that cross their tables after the cards have been turned in. Perhaps you could have given them a perspective that they hadn't considered. Thank you for taking the time to reply to my post and clarifying my understanding of the situation.
Julie

Shotgun
08-28-2012, 02:10 PM
I get tired of hearing of all these judges that just really dont care and it makes me very discouraged. I have however, seen and met alot of very good judges and I have said before, there needs be some type of management to the tables. This is NOT a restaurant. With that being said, those who win continue to win so what do I know.

Buckscent
08-28-2012, 02:32 PM
I get tired of hearing of all these judges that just really dont care and it makes me very discouraged. I have however, seen and met alot of very good judges and I have said before, there needs be some type of management to the tables. This is NOT a restaurant. With that being said, those who win continue to win so what do I know.

You are correct. There should be something in
Place to correct/train judges. I think the judging class
Is somewhat of a joke. A 3-4 hour class spent
Eating BBQ? Now I do believe it is a good
"start" on learning to judge. I think table captains
Or the reps need to look at the scores and if
Something in one or two of them is off then
After the judging ask them why they scored so
High and what they should have been scored.
Like I said cooks spend alot of money, time and gas
And I try my very best to judge each box as honest
And fairly as I possibly can. Do I screw up sometimes
Sure we all do but I want to leave the event
Knowing I did the very best for the cools as I can
It since judging is "in the eye and taste of the
Beholder". It will continue as is

mobow
08-28-2012, 02:37 PM
It was not just the chicken. It was a couple of
Catagories. But as far as the chicken goes it was a
So so taste. I think as judges when we need to be fair
But if that box does not look like u can't wait
To eat it then judge appearance accordingly
For appearance only not the "well it might taste good"
So I'll give appearance a better score. And I gave
It a 7 on appearance and 7 and 8 on taste and
Tenderness. I will never give a 6 unless it
Very bad. Cooks spend alot of time and money
Cooking and deserve the best honest score
They can get. And If i do give a 6, which I did
For brisket, I will give them a comment card

Why do you give a 6 for very bad. That is a inflation on your part. 6 is average, very bad would be in the 3 or 4 area. keith

Buckscent
08-28-2012, 02:54 PM
[QUOTE=mobow;2192706]Why do you give a 6 for very bad. That is a inflation on your part. 6 is average, very bad would be in the 3 or 4 area. keith[/QUOTE


Keith, you are correct and maybe I should not
Have said very bad. I have never got very bad
BBQ at a compitition. I guess what I was saying is
Something I can get at any BBQ shack, if it does
Not stand out I will give it a 6. I start every box before
I even see it a 7. 7 is above avg and every cook
At the comp should be above the avg bbqer. Then
I adjust my score from there. Now I have given
Alot well several 7's. There are alot of 7's out there
But if I see and eat 5 box's in a row that are
9's I give them 9's

Lake Dogs
08-28-2012, 02:59 PM
100% agreed; more rigorous training needed. However, many things including
how appetizing something is quite subjective. For example, for many people
my age who grew up in my region, the very sight of chopped pork brings up
very negative images and usually is not very appealing. Certainly for others
that's very different. In your case, those folks may've really been attracted
to grilled almost burned chicken and like that it looks natural, like chicken. I for
one never cared for the overly trimmed "balls of luv", because they dont look
like chicken. Some look like Christmas ornaments (really), and frankly I dont want
to bite into a Christmas ball. That's kinda the ***** of it. It's subjective.

carlyle
08-28-2012, 03:08 PM
Did you discuss these scores Buckscent with those other judges?
That is permitted and encouraged between categories.
Maybe everyone would have learned something.

Buckscent
08-28-2012, 03:56 PM
Well in a way I said something. I did not want
Them to know I was looking at their card. I said
Something like "man box X looked bad not
Even trimmed and looked burnt" and how and
What I scored it.

LD- its hard to get big chicken like that in
A box and look good. I would like to see
Different chicken. Like legs and pulled breast
Just something different

kenthanson
08-28-2012, 11:23 PM
Well in a way I said something. I did not want
Them to know I was looking at their card. I said
Something like "man box X looked bad not
Even trimmed and looked burnt" and how and
What I scored it.

LD- its hard to get big chicken like that in
A box and look good. I would like to see
Different chicken. Like legs and pulled breast
Just something different

Good luck trying to get pulled breast turned in. Drums are popping up here and there more so and we always cook 12 ever time, but we have always turned in thighs. The reason everyone turns in thighs is because that's what is expected, and not to many teams are going to chance bombing chicken because the judges were expecting thighs and got drums.

Shotgun
08-29-2012, 08:50 AM
Good luck trying to get pulled breast turned in. Drums are popping up here and there more so and we always cook 12 ever time, but we have always turned in thighs. The reason everyone turns in thighs is because that's what is expected, and not to many teams are going to chance bombing chicken because the judges were expecting thighs and got drums.

I turn in thighs because I have a better chance at them not drying out. We have turned in drums too with pretty good results and would love to do breast, but we havent come up with a method to keep them from drying out.

Ackman
08-29-2012, 08:22 PM
I think that there is a fundamental flaw in the scoring system that you are not allowed to revise a number once written on the score card

Buckscent
08-29-2012, 08:38 PM
I think that there is a fundamental flaw in the scoring system that you are not allowed to revise a number once written on the score card

I don't think that is a flaw or the problem. If you could change the score 1) it would take tables all day to finish scoring and 2) that would allow you to compare each one to the other.

kenthanson
08-29-2012, 11:18 PM
I don't think that is a flaw or the problem. If you could change the score 1) it would take tables all day to finish scoring and 2) that would allow you to compare each one to the other.

Plus I think the biggest is that you don't have a shady table captain or head judge alter score without it being obvious.

tmcmaster
08-30-2012, 01:39 PM
Did they have coolers? I was at a table judging once where 2 judges were taking the smallest bite possible and then putting each meat in zip locks in the cooler. I glanced at the scorecard and they both had 999 for everything they judged.

Now you sound like ME.
:icon_shy

Uncle Buck
08-30-2012, 05:02 PM
I judged my first contest a couple of weeks ago and was shocked as well! We got done with chicken and all the judges at the table said well that was all really good looking and tasting chicken. One judge was a master as well. I could have fallen off my chair I was so shocked! It all looked BAD. They also did not have enough kcbs judges so they grabbed people walking by, which really upset me as a competior.
I am by no means a seasoned judge or competior but something has got to change! There needs to be way more management at tables. I know there are some great judges out there but the guys that were at my table were there for the free meal!

Tack
08-30-2012, 10:37 PM
It seems to me that if a judge scores lower for legs being put in the box instead of thighs he or she is guilty of not judging as presented. If ya get thighs judge them fairly and if ya get legs do the same. Having a preconcieved notion of what should be in the box is close minded and not fair to those that think outside of the box. Makes ya wonder if these same judges score down if there are no burnt ends

tmcmaster
08-31-2012, 01:56 PM
It seems to me that if a judge scores lower for legs being put in the box instead of thighs he or she is guilty of not judging as presented. If ya get thighs judge them fairly and if ya get legs do the same. Having a preconcieved notion of what should be in the box is close minded and not fair to those that think outside of the box. Makes ya wonder if these same judges score down if there are no burnt ends
Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh:icon_shy