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View Full Version : What happened last weekend in McMinnville, TN that warrants a special KCBS BOD meeting?


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Brauma
08-17-2012, 07:28 PM
Does KCBS BOD have an option to "sleep on it" or table a decision for 24 hours? Or do they HAVE to vote on a matter the day they hear it?

Reason I ask this: whenever I have a big matter to make a decision on, if emotions are in play, I'll make a bad decision every time. If I sleep on it, I do better. If I have an email that tweaks me, I'll write a reply and save it to draft. Then I'll ask myself, "am I the least bit steamed"? Usually the answer is yes. If so I'll take a walk, go get a Coke (if I smoked I'd go take a smoke), or sleep on it if possible. 99% of the time I rewrite the email.

If BOD members do not have the option of voting to table a matter for 24 hours I'd like to suggest it.

wmaes47
08-17-2012, 07:51 PM
Any one know if the above anti-harrassment policy is for employment or events? Any one know if it is a sexual harrassment and hostile workplace policy, or if it applies to all forms of harrassment, even not for protected classes? It seems like a mish-mash and is hard to tell.

dmp

This is in the first paragraph of the policy, which I have now underlined and made bold:

"This policy governs all aspects of KCBS events, and all judges and KCBS personnel are required to abide by this Policy. KCBS also strictly prohibits retaliation against anyone who in good faith exercises his or her rights under this policy."

dmprantz
08-17-2012, 07:59 PM
And my second question about whether this applies to all forms of harrassment or just hostile workplace situations?

dmp

Jorge
08-17-2012, 08:15 PM
That was not a factor, and the period between learning of the incident and the meeting was much greater than that. One individual that received discipline called me at 2 PM on Sunday.

Does KCBS BOD have an option to "sleep on it" or table a decision for 24 hours? Or do they HAVE to vote on a matter the day they hear it?

Reason I ask this: whenever I have a big matter to make a decision on, if emotions are in play, I'll make a bad decision every time. If I sleep on it, I do better. If I have an email that tweaks me, I'll write a reply and save it to draft. Then I'll ask myself, "am I the least bit steamed"? Usually the answer is yes. If so I'll take a walk, go get a Coke (if I smoked I'd go take a smoke), or sleep on it if possible. 99% of the time I rewrite the email.

If BOD members do not have the option of voting to table a matter for 24 hours I'd like to suggest it.

Brauma
08-17-2012, 08:31 PM
Thanks Jorge. Just for the record, here is my concern and what I just emailed my team:

Guys, it seems KCBS has just banned a team for three years with no precedent. This scares me for this reason: It would more than suck if we won our first GC and afterward someone complains and says they were offended by our name. Then KCBS votes to strip us of what we’ve worked so hard for. I’m just trying to stay ahead of the game here.

We have asked our logo guy how much it would cost to alter our logo to put more of a space between Cat and Sass. It sucks but as I've learned at work, perception is reality.

txschutte
08-17-2012, 08:33 PM
I, for one, applaud the BOD's stance for no tolerance to this sort of situation. If it had been confined to a cook site, maybe I could be a bit more forgiving. My kids attend and cook with me at every event. I got into competition BBQ because it was a relatively cheap sport that all of my family could get involved in. I wouldn't take them if I knew there were bachelor party antics going on.

nthole
08-17-2012, 08:54 PM
Mark, Cat Sass isn't sexually suggestive in any manner, and I think it would hardly fall into the offensive category. You might be over reacting a bit on getting your logo redone.

On the other hand, I guess there is a fair question there. Is the BOD ready to preapprove all team names and t-shirts so that a team doesn't have to worry about this? I can't imagine the man power that's going to require but it's a VERY fair question. If you set a precedent without setting rules on whats ok and whats not...that's not really ok.

watertowerbbq
08-17-2012, 08:57 PM
I guess I'm more upset about fixing score cards and removing meat from the contest site. Both are cheating.

WineMaster
08-17-2012, 09:58 PM
That was not a factor, and the period between learning of the incident and the meeting was much greater than that. One individual that received discipline called me at 2 PM on Sunday.

Here is where I have to disagree, IMHO if the Rep for this contest was not a Board Member for KCBS, this incident would not have been handled so swiftly.

Sticks-n-chicks
08-17-2012, 10:33 PM
So what's the consensus here
- This was over the top and inappropriate behavior and not "funny
- penalty was excessive,
- Precedence set or lack there of to begin with leaves Teams concerned
- What is the Team Captain Responsibility and are they to be thrown out with the infraction whether or not they had knowledge?

My concern is the slippery slope that has been set before us. The relevance of the punishment does not fit the crime, I'm sorry but it doesn't fit. The mention of a "lifetime ban" would be funny if the conversation didn't happen. I have been in situations inside and outside of BBQ with and without my kids where I had to turn and walk away and do my best to explain the situation away or step up and say "hey, you mind knocking it off".

More importantly is knowing the rules and taking the vagueness out as much as posible. INTENT is an important factor in any situation and in court is taken into consideration and people who are charged have rights more specifically to representation. The decision is made by Judges and Juries (instructed by judges) to make a rational decision the Juries are made up of piers not Boards.

Maybe this is a chance to create a judicial arm to KCBS to evaluate, define and uphold the rules. This arm would need to consist of 8-10 members of which would be our piers, (fellow cooks) and a couple of Board members.

I would not want to go before a board for an infraction however if I had to go in front of a combined group who creates, defines and upholds the rules consisting of a jury of my piers then I could accept the punishment, knowing full well I was given it from my piers. Let's face it there seems to be no hard line on what the punishment might be for a given offense, banning or probation or nothing, who's to say??

So KCBS it is up to you to listen to the members and begin to define the rules and applicable punishments and exactly who is deciding the outcome and the procedures for doing so.

moocow
08-17-2012, 11:42 PM
The Board made the right call deciding that the team needed to be punished. They totally screwed up the punishment and I am quickly loosing confidence in what they are doing. We voted you in because you said you would be fair and responsible and I don't feel that is being done on this matter. Who of you on the board has the balls to admit your wrong and your punishment needs to be adjusted to fit the crime? My guess would be nobody because you are hard headed and this is what we have come to expect for you. Just wanted to point out I love KCBS and am not a BoD basher, this is just not right!

Jeff_in_KC
08-18-2012, 12:04 AM
Shane, I suggest you run for the board then. There are going to be openings. I've kept quiet for a day now and watched myself and the board be TOTALLY trashed and I'm sick of it. It's too bad those involved won't tell why the board did what we did because they know. You all demand answers from board members and when you get them, there's crap being flung in every direction. Well you got your answers. Board members came on and had the decency to answer what questions we are able to answer and paid the price for doing so. Probably best we leave you in the dark next time. Couldn't be any worse than this has been. I'm sure I'll see many of you on the ballot come January, right?

Cue's Your Daddy
08-18-2012, 12:19 AM
In speaking with some people, it seems the individual who had the apron on has done some things at past contests that were very inappropriate. I don't know if it is true, but maybe someone can tell me if this is true. It seems to me that he is an individual that has caused some problems before. I don't believe evrything I hear that's why I am asking the question.

bigabyte
08-18-2012, 12:38 AM
I just can't seem to keep my nose out of this one.

This thread has an interesting dichotomy.
The first pages are filled with hate and disgust towards the team, organizers and reps with many calls for zero tolerance and banning for any and all of them. Dmprantz himself commented on it.

After dmprantz's post, the thread became filled with hate and disgust towards the BOD.

The only story anyone has heard about in all this is what dmpramtz said, and he said he was unaware of what happened, provided no specifics as to what really happened, and said he accepted responsibility and apologized for that very thing he was unaware of and provided no specifics about. The BOD can't say anything. The guy who wore the apron hasn't said anything either.

Yet everyone claims to know what is wrong and what should have been done instead in light of the immense volume of jack chit that they actually know?:roll:

I would hate to know what you folks would do on a jury when you actually do have facts to arm your opinions, as opposed to the carnage you try laying down when you are clueless.

The Cosmic Pig
08-18-2012, 01:41 AM
Mark, Cat Sass isn't sexually suggestive in any manner, and I think it would hardly fall into the offensive category. You might be over reacting a bit on getting your logo redone.

On the other hand, I guess there is a fair question there. Is the BOD ready to preapprove all team names and t-shirts so that a team doesn't have to worry about this? I can't imagine the man power that's going to require but it's a VERY fair question. If you set a precedent without setting rules on whats ok and whats not...that's not really ok.


Does it really need stated explicitly in the rules that "no contestant should wear a fake penis on stage to receive their award" to know that that's not acceptable behavior? And can't at least 99.9% of us look at any given sign, shirt, or logo and know what's lewd and what is acceptable without it being written in the rules? Come on, folks. Apply common sense. And if someone doesn't know better than to wear a fake penis on stage, are they going to be receptive to the suggestion that they take it off? I highly doubt it.
I was a union representative once and I know what it's like to try and please a small group of people, much less a group of this size; it can't be done. I also remember before the last KCBS election that lots of people wanted to "throw the bums out," and now it's the same thing all over again. It's a thankless task, and you couldn't melt me and pour me into a position like that again. Give these folks some credit for trying to do what they thought was right. I've seen the board members' post on this thread, and they seem very sincere in their attempt to resolve this situation with the best interest of competition BBQ in mind. The majority of the membership put their trust in them, and that's why they got elected. Don't second-guess their decisions unless you're willing to put yourself in their position. I guarantee you'll be the next "***hole" that someone, somewhere wants to throw out!

bmonkman
08-18-2012, 05:13 AM
Shane, I suggest you run for the board then. There are going to be openings. I've kept quiet for a day now and watched myself and the board be TOTALLY trashed and I'm sick of it. It's too bad those involved won't tell why the board did what we did because they know. You all demand answers from board members and when you get them, there's crap being flung in every direction. Well you got your answers. Board members came on and had the decency to answer what questions we are able to answer and paid the price for doing so. Probably best we leave you in the dark next time. Couldn't be any worse than this has been. I'm sure I'll see many of you on the ballot come January, right?

I for one having served on a board of an organization run by volunteers know first hand how thankless your job is. It really is a shame you folks had to deal with this. Perhaps a mailing out to all KCBS members reminding them of the the fact these events are to be family friendly and EVERY member has the moral and ethical responsibility to speak up when actions/choices of others puts this at risk.

We can't refuse to take responsibility and say it is the BOD's responsibility (or their rep) and then scream foul when that is exactly what happens. I may disagree with the decision, but I do respect it.

dmprantz
08-18-2012, 06:41 AM
In speaking with some people, it seems the individual who had the apron on has done some things at past contests that were very inappropriate. I don't know if it is true, but maybe someone can tell me if this is true. It seems to me that he is an individual that has caused some problems before. I don't believe evrything I hear that's why I am asking the question.

I've been to several competitions with the individual who wore the apron, and I am not aware of any "very inappropriate" behaviour in the past. I believe that "some people" are telling you "some misinformation." Personally, I think these "some people" should stick to facts and speak for themselves, both publically and privately. If some one believes that I am wrong and that there is a track record, feel free to let me know privately of what you mean, and I'll correct myself.

dmp

Ford
08-18-2012, 07:13 AM
If that policy posted above is now used to govern contests then I think all members need to be made aware of it. I've never seen it before and I have read the bylaws and rules. Cooks need to know this. There's lots of team logos and names and "tag lines" that would disappear. I would think a pig that has obvious female organs not appropriately covered would be harassment. I know in the workplace a lot of calendars have been banned.

moocow
08-18-2012, 07:58 AM
Shane, I suggest you run for the board then. There are going to be openings. I've kept quiet for a day now and watched myself and the board be TOTALLY trashed and I'm sick of it. It's too bad those involved won't tell why the board did what we did because they know. You all demand answers from board members and when you get them, there's crap being flung in every direction. Well you got your answers. Board members came on and had the decency to answer what questions we are able to answer and paid the price for doing so. Probably best we leave you in the dark next time. Couldn't be any worse than this has been. I'm sure I'll see many of you on the ballot come January, right?

Jeff, you are taking this way to personally. I supported your campaign and voted for you. You of all people know I am not a BoD basher and support them most of the time. I still support 99% of your decisions. I even support the decision of banning them just not how long the ban is. You guys gave them a death sentence in my opinion, they will probably never return again! Just remember it might be you some day who has a laps in judgment and makes a very bad decision. I have seen and heard you do or say questionable things in the past, we are all guilty of it including myself. I applaud you for all of your comments on here, that is exactly the reason I voted for you but that still doesn't mean I don't think you are wrong. I can disagree with the BoD and that does not make me a board basher/hater. I may of overstated that I was loosing confidence with the Board because over all they are doing a pretty good job but when poor decisions are made it reminds me of the past boards and it concerns me. Do you think the ban could be reduced to 1 year and still be effective? As to your original Question, I will not be running for the Board because I support you and feel like I can live with you being wrong 1% of the time on KCSB matters! Please don't take it so personally, it will eat you alive.

Teamfour
08-18-2012, 08:11 AM
It's too bad those involved won't tell why the board did what we did because they know.

I wish Paul Harvey was around to tell "the rest of the story".

USMC_BBQ
08-18-2012, 08:16 AM
In speaking with some people, it seems the individual who had the apron on has done some things at past contests that were very inappropriate. I don't know if it is true, but maybe someone can tell me if this is true. It seems to me that he is an individual that has caused some problems before. I don't believe evrything I hear that's why I am asking the question.

Whoever you talked to is misinformed or has him confused with someone else. The guy has cooked for 8 years on two different teams (MBN and KCBS) and has never had any prior incidents or issues.
I believe the penalty by the board was so outlandish because of the teams that complained, if it were not two TOTY contenders and it was Joe Blow BBQ than it might be different or if one of the people involved were not BOD Arlie Bragg the punishment might have fit the crime.

and by theway: GO Sachem Flaming Arrows!

bbqbrad
08-18-2012, 08:20 AM
Too often we...enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought. - John F. Kennedy

Jorge
08-18-2012, 09:34 AM
Whoever you talked to is misinformed or has him confused with someone else. The guy has cooked for 8 years on two different teams (MBN and KCBS) and has never had any prior incidents or issues.
I believe the penalty by the board was so outlandish because of the teams that complained, if it were not two TOTY contenders and it was Joe Blow BBQ than it might be different or if one of the people involved were not BOD Arlie Bragg the punishment might have fit the crime.

and by theway: GO Sachem Flaming Arrows!

For the sake of clarity...Is your name Jesse?

dmprantz
08-18-2012, 09:59 AM
And my second question about whether this applies to all forms of harrassment or just hostile workplace situations

So no one is able or willing to comment on wether all forms of harrassment are covered by this policy? Interesting. If any one ever finds out the answer, I'd appreciate it if you'd let me know.

dmp

Pitmaster T
08-18-2012, 10:11 AM
Someone mentioned in this thread other examples of behavioral problems (judges, contestants) and among them are "sex in porta potties," guns, fights, etc.

What I would like to have is somebody PM me some good evidence of these examples PLUS a picture of the offending apron and I will see what I can do about this. This is a serious issue that deserves a smear campaign of the highest order. It would also be great fun dragging members of the board through the mud in a youtube video. Great election year stuff.

I think what the team did was wrong, I personally would have made SURE the guy did not wear it, but I think 3 years is just way too much considering what goes on at a KCBS event. I think its lazy. They should have banned the team one year with one year probation (possibly more for the offender personally) and then sent out a new edict on moral conduct banning certain conducts and such. It would have gone a long way toward fixing the problem.

Personally, if its so family friendly, lets nix the alcohol all together. Three years plus 2 probation is ridiculous. Especially considering what went on with me and my team in that market in the 1990's regarding racial slurs sprayed on my camper years ago.

Jorge
08-18-2012, 10:16 AM
Here is where I have to disagree, IMHO if the Rep for this contest was not a Board Member for KCBS, this incident would not have been handled so swiftly.

My reply was in answer to whether or not the board acted within 24 hours. There were actually three members of the board present at this contest. The board did have more first hand info than usual in this case, but I don't know that it drove the board to call the special meeting. There were multiple complaints submitted. One Rep did spend time talking with many teams at that contest, not just ToY contenders, and the feeling and comments were uniform and outspoken. There were also some time sensitive issues involved as well. One team is in the Jack draw. That draw will occur before the next scheduled meeting. Whether the Jack chooses to honor the ban is up to them. It's not a sanctioned KCBS event. Personally I'd hate to see a team drawn, banned, removed from the Jack, and not replaced. Had that scenario unfolded the board would then be criticized by some for not be decisive, whether that's right or wrong.

My personal decision was based on ALL of the info available to me Wed. night. When Mr. Pomerantz called me on Sunday to explain his side I told him I wouldn't make a decision until the board met, and I also suggested to him that he should communicate his side to the ENTIRE board sooner rather than later because I did not believe that he'd have 30 days until the next scheduled meeting. I can't, and won't, speak for the rest of the board but I don't feel that I rushed to judgment.

The Board made the right call deciding that the team needed to be punished. They totally screwed up the punishment and I am quickly loosing confidence in what they are doing. We voted you in because you said you would be fair and responsible and I don't feel that is being done on this matter. Who of you on the board has the balls to admit your wrong and your punishment needs to be adjusted to fit the crime? My guess would be nobody because you are hard headed and this is what we have come to expect for you. Just wanted to point out I love KCBS and am not a BoD basher, this is just not right!

Shane, read that and tell me that you don't understand why Jeff thought it went a little far. If you tell me that I made a mistake and explain why you believe that I'm fine. When you tell me I'm hard headed and have no balls, I'm not sure how you expect me to not take that at least somewhat personally. Knowing you personally, I'm sure I take that somewhat differently than those that don't know you at all would.

USMC_BBQ
08-18-2012, 10:37 AM
For the sake of clarity...Is your name Jesse?

No, but Jesse is a friend,yeah, I know he's been a good friend of mine
But lately something's changed that ain't hard to define
Jesse wore himself an apron and he got himself a fine

Jorge
08-18-2012, 11:33 AM
In speaking with some people, it seems the individual who had the apron on has done some things at past contests that were very inappropriate. I don't know if it is true, but maybe someone can tell me if this is true. It seems to me that he is an individual that has caused some problems before. I don't believe evrything I hear that's why I am asking the question.

I don't know who you talked to, and I can't really discuss the information presented in executive session. I can tell you that I don't recall having any information presented to me that the individual wearing the apron had a history of "problems" or anything like that. You might want to share that with your source, and suggest that they might want to quit sharing that scoop.

WineMaster
08-18-2012, 11:47 AM
My personal decision was based on ALL of the info available to me Wed. night. When Mr. Pomerantz called me on Sunday to explain his side I told him I wouldn't make a decision until the board met, and I also suggested to him that he should communicate his side to the ENTIRE board sooner rather than later because I did not believe that he'd have 30 days until the next scheduled meeting. I can't, and won't, speak for the rest of the board but I don't feel that I rushed to judgment.


Thank you for explaining how you made your decision. It couldn't have been easy. I hope there is not alot of teams pushing buttons and seeing what they can get away with this weekend. Its time to put this thing to rest.

moocow
08-18-2012, 01:24 PM
My reply was in answer to whether or not the board acted within 24 hours. There were actually three members of the board present at this contest. The board did have more first hand info than usual in this case, but I don't know that it drove the board to call the special meeting. There were multiple complaints submitted. One Rep did spend time talking with many teams at that contest, not just ToY contenders, and the feeling and comments were uniform and outspoken. There were also some time sensitive issues involved as well. One team is in the Jack draw. That draw will occur before the next scheduled meeting. Whether the Jack chooses to honor the ban is up to them. It's not a sanctioned KCBS event. Personally I'd hate to see a team drawn, banned, removed from the Jack, and not replaced. Had that scenario unfolded the board would then be criticized by some for not be decisive, whether that's right or wrong.

My personal decision was based on ALL of the info available to me Wed. night. When Mr. Pomerantz called me on Sunday to explain his side I told him I wouldn't make a decision until the board met, and I also suggested to him that he should communicate his side to the ENTIRE board sooner rather than later because I did not believe that he'd have 30 days until the next scheduled meeting. I can't, and won't, speak for the rest of the board but I don't feel that I rushed to judgment.



Shane, read that and tell me that you don't understand why Jeff thought it went a little far. If you tell me that I made a mistake and explain why you believe that I'm fine. When you tell me I'm hard headed and have no balls, I'm not sure how you expect me to not take that at least somewhat personally. Knowing you personally, I'm sure I take that somewhat differently than those that don't know you at all would.

Jorge, I have no problem with them being punished. I just don't like the fact that the punishment was so harsh considering some of the punishments that were handed out in the past for other infractions. We need to come up with some new rules and a way to investigate and enforce them. If there were a situation at a contest where the law had to be called because the cooks were out of line and the situation became dangerous it might warrant that type of punishment but it seems unfair to do that without a rule in place. A three year ban is a lifetime ban in my opinion, I am not saying they did not deserve it and i am in no way standing up for them. They made a very bad decision. You are one of the most stand up guys I know and no doubt have a big ole set between your legs. Sorry to ruffle your feathers, I should not have used the "balls" comment. I do have confidence in the Board and I am sure they will get this corrected for future problems.

Robert
08-18-2012, 03:56 PM
I wish Paul Harvey was around to tell "the rest of the story".
Me too, because I'm sure there is more. I don't think the BOD would have handed down such a stiff sanction if the actions didn't warrant that. I think this goes further than an obscene apron. Remember, some of the BOD were in favor of 5 year ban! Odd thing is, there were 32 teams there, but the only ones we have heard from were the two teams sanctioned. Surely, out of the other 30 teams, someone saw the whole thing go down. As a result of less than the whole story being told, the BOD is taking the hit for being the bad guy in this situation. The BOD has taken the position not to air the dirty laundry of the whole situation. Remember, before the punishment became public, there were cries for the offender to be banned.

So, for the sake of fairness for all involved, I ask that the rest of the story be told by someone that was in attendance. That is the only way this thing will die a much needed death. Otherwise, the proverbial horse flogging will continue ad infinitum. Flame away.

Robert

RangerJ
08-18-2012, 04:45 PM
No, but Jesse is a friend,yeah, I know he's been a good friend of mine
But lately something's changed that ain't hard to define
Jesse wore himself an apron and he got himself a fine

Well, I think this has run it's course.

When the defender of the Eagle, Globe and Anchor for all these pages resorts to Rick Springfield lyrics, the topic has perhaps jumped the shark.

Sledneck
08-18-2012, 05:05 PM
Yawn

Rookie'48
08-18-2012, 11:39 PM
Here's my first, last and only post on this subject:

As others have stated, we can't (and shouldn't) repeat what happens in Executive Session. There were three members who called in and gave their own version of the events. Each of them were asked questions by any Board member who so desired, and each was allowed to explain, answer or state their reasons for what ever was asked.

I was one of the BoD members that was at McMinnville, although I left a couple of hours before the awards program and did not witness any part of the "problems" that came later. I met the two members of the offending team, one for the first time and one for the second time on Friday evening, along with a number of other folks at a pot luck. Neither of them seemed to fit the "Loser" label, at least to me on Friday evening.

That's my total and complete personal knowledge of what went down at the awards and afterwords.

Complaints were made to the Board and the BoD decided to hold a special meeting to handle this. The BoD listened to all who called in, read some letters that were sent to us by various members, and then we debated (argued?) amongst ourselves for about 2 hours until a consensus was reached on all three persons involved.

We came back into public session, motions were made, votes were cast and results were announced. I will say that I voted "No" on the 3 year / 2 year motion but that's all that I'm going to say. The Board, by a majority of it's members has spoken.

Now - - - it seems that there are a few suggestions out here for some rule changes. How about writing them down and send them to either the Rules Committee at: rules@kcbs.us or to me at: dcompton@kcbs.us.

Again - this is the only time that I'll publicly post on this mess in McMinnville. And all thoughts are mine alone, not those of the Board or any other member.

DocStl
08-18-2012, 11:43 PM
OK, For those of you that think the BOD is hiding info behind executive sessions, Heres why. Say something happens at a contest and YOUR wife calls KCBS and complains. If her identity is not kept private, what do you think happens at the next contest you cook? Hey, wasnt YOUR wife the one that got my buddy banned for a year? Now its on at another comp. And things would stop being reported, Exec sessions are for that pourpose.

Secondly, I was at this contest, I stood at the stage while Arlie and DMP went at it, I was at DMPs site, after awards. I was with the reps that spoke to other teams. I can only comment on what I saw, and will in length.

Ill say this much now, lets think of the team that got great calls while sitting in front with his wife, 5 year old, and mother. Covering the little girls eyes, thrilled to win a category and pissed at the same time. Kinda kills some of the thrill of His day dont you think?

Big Poppa
08-19-2012, 12:03 AM
Wow this is a crazy thread.

MilitantSquatter
08-19-2012, 11:02 AM
Secondly, I was at this contest, I stood at the stage while Arlie and DMP went at it, I was at DMPs site, after awards. I was with the reps that spoke to other teams. I can only comment on what I saw, and will in length.



so, there is more to this saga...

:drama:

boogiesnap
08-19-2012, 12:01 PM
i thought dan wrote he wasn't at awards.

damn, whatever happened, i'll miss dan's thoughts on comp BBQ if he leaves for good.

Sledneck
08-19-2012, 12:40 PM
At first i thought the bod was to harsh. Now after reading all of this i applaud them for acting swiftly to resolve this situation. Thank you bod for doing what you do and for taking the heat. Can we get back to bbq now ?

parrdist
08-19-2012, 12:45 PM
I am not a member of KCBS and after reading all 21 pages of this thread I doubt if I will ever become a member.

Sledneck
08-19-2012, 12:47 PM
I am not a member of KCBS and after reading all 21 pages of this thread I doubt if I will ever become a member.

Why if you dont mind me asking?

dmprantz
08-19-2012, 12:49 PM
Secondly, I was at this contest, I stood at the stage while Arlie and DMP went at it, I was at DMPs site, after awards. I was with the reps that spoke to other teams. I can only comment on what I saw, and will in length.

Ill say this much now, lets think of the team that got great calls while sitting in front with his wife, 5 year old, and mother. Covering the little girls eyes, thrilled to win a category and pissed at the same time. Kinda kills some of the thrill of His day dont you think?

Is this how you do things Doc? You ask other people to say things that you cannot or will not, and when no one does you speak in half truths?

I'm not sure about where you were, but after awards, I was to the side of the "stage" trying to pickup my score sheet and having a conversation with one of the reps about the situation. I was told I would probably get a one year ban for it, and I was asking about if that was so even though I didn't wear the apron. Arlie Bragg interjected himself into the conversation demanding to know who signed the app as head cook, and I believe the entirety of my exact words to him were "My name was listed as head cook, so you're right. I'll suffer the consequences for team behaviour when the BOD meets. Now can I get my score sheet so that I can get back to my site and leave?"

You failed to mention that Arlie said to me that he would physically attack an organizer if he showed up on site to perform his organizer in training duties. You failed to mention that this poor head cook with the five year old daughter is about 300 lb and was heard by multiple people saying that he was going to physically attack and hurt both my teammate and me over the incident. You failed to mention that after I had taken the blame and said I would leave Arlie took it upon himself to confront my teamate, cuss at him, call him names, and prevent us from leaving. All of these acts of threatened violence were known to the board, yet they did nothing. Never mind the fact that they actually allowed Arlie to be a part of punishment deliberations even though he wasn't voting. I'm sure they'll all hide behind executive session privilege about what they knew and why they chose to take action or not, but the above are all facts.

I am on vacation right now, trying to give my children a chance to spend time with their extended family. I had a very hard week and a bad mood leading up to the vacation, and I hoped that I wouldn't have to monitor this thread to make sure that no one was slamming me. It looks like I was wrong. I've tried very hard to take the high road here and not call others' questionable behaviour into question here despite the innuendo. If people really wanna continue talking about this and make me out to be a bad guy, I'll lay all the cards on the table, but I think it's going to get worse for all involved. Is that what any one wants?

dmp

dmprantz
08-19-2012, 12:51 PM
i thought dan wrote he wasn't at awards.

I'm not going to go back and look at exactly what I wrote, but what I believe I said was that I did not walk to awards with my teammate, nor did I sit at awards with him. Awards started early, and he left for them before me. By the time I got there he was at a table without room and I sat at a different table. I was not with him when he accepted the award.

dmp

chrisnjenn
08-19-2012, 01:23 PM
I am not a member of KCBS and after reading all 21 pages of this thread I doubt if I will ever become a member.

I'm a member. This situation has certainly opened up my eyes more than usual. Good ole boy system is alive and well in the KCBS. No surprise there. Different set of rules for different set of people. Just depends how far up the food scale you are. No consistency. I was hoping things might have changed a little over how it was in the past. Guess not.

Don't get me wrong. That team deserved some punishment. That we all agree on. But the punishment does not fit the crime or even come close. It is like executing someone for stealing a pack of gum. Once again, everyone on this thread is in agreement that the team should of been reprimanded/punished.

Thankless job? I serve on a couple of nonprofit boards and I don't need to be thanked. I do it because I want to. Makes me feel good. Many do it for attention, power, makes them feel important, etc.. Whatever motive they have, no one forced them to do it. If they don't like it., then quit. There will be plenty who will gladly take their place.

Dmp, keep your head up. Sad you were used as an example unfairly. Shame on the board for killing this team.

bbqczar
08-19-2012, 01:27 PM
I'm a member. This situation has certainly opened up my eyes more than usual. Good ole boy system is alive and well in the KCBS. No surprise there. Different set of rules for different set of people. Just depends how far up the food scale you are. No consistency. I was hoping things might have changed a little over how it was in the past. Guess not.

Don't get me wrong. That team deserved some punishment. That we all agree on. But the punishment does not fit the crime or even come close. It is like executing someone for stealing a pack of gum. Once again, everyone on this thread is in agreement that should of been reprimanded.

Thankless job? I serve on a couple of nonprofit boards and I don't need to be thanked. I do it because I want to. Makes me feel good. Many do it for attention, power, makes them feel important, etc.. Whatever motive they have, no one forced them to do it. If they don't like it., then quit. There will be plenty who will gladly take their place.

Dmp, keep your head up. Sad you were used as an example unfairly. Shame on the board for killing this team.

As my buddy Dave Hester would say,Yuuuup !

parrdist
08-19-2012, 03:04 PM
Why if you dont mind me asking?

Read this thread, infighting, playing of favorites, good old boys network, uneven handling of rules, it's who you know in how you will be treated. Rules applied differently for each offense. Judges dealt with differently than teams. No problem with suggestive team names. That said after reading all 21 pages the punishment way too harsh. Suspend for the rest of this year and 2 years probation would have sent a clear message that this will not be tolerated.

Smoke'n Ice
08-19-2012, 03:07 PM
We have gone from someone wearing what was purported to be a "statue of David" apron to going up on stage with a penis apron in all it giant proportions to accept an award from the Mayor of McMinnville at the Civic Center at what was billed as a family affair, to bashing the BOD, to bashing Arlie. What did I miss.

They, the team, screwed up; they, the team, was affored the opportunity to speak to the BOD to present their side and to answer questions; they, the team, got punished by a super majority of the BOD only after several hours of debate and deliberation; they, the team, accepted the punishment; they, the team, are out for three years with an additional two years of probation; they, the team, can petition the BOD for reconsideration at a future date.

Most of us felt the crime did not fit the punishment but, as more little tid bits are revealed, the talk of a permanent ban by the BOD may have not been that far out of line.

dmprantz
08-19-2012, 04:11 PM
. What did I miss.

You're mis-stating some facts. A very early post in the thread indicated that the apron had genitalia on it. Some one mentioned a David apron off topic and a few ppl now want to accuse me of claiming that's what it was. I never said that. As for bashing Arlie, please look back at the first person in this thread to mention him. 7 on the KCBS BOD is not a "super majority."

Diva
08-19-2012, 04:29 PM
The board members are bound to silence but everyone else isn't. Blows my mind that ALL of these people were present (and "offended") but, no one will say what happened. Good grief.

Smoke'n Ice
08-19-2012, 04:30 PM
Actually, I mis-interpeted the apron because I did not believe that anyone in their right mind would wear such a thing in public unless they were drunk, blitzed or zoned.

Second, of the 11 people voting (the president only votes in case of a tie and we don't know her position on this vote), two abstained, two voted no and seven votes yes. A supermajority is normally defined as 2/3rd of thoes voting. If we count the abstentions, then 7.333 votes are needed to be a supermajority, if we don't, then only six would be needed to have a supermajority. Either way a lot of the people that we elected, made their desires known.

Ron_L
08-19-2012, 05:07 PM
Mod Note:

This thread is a discussion of the events at the McMinnville, TN competition and the subsequent actions by the board. If there are issues with other competitions or specific individuals that should be brought to the attention of the KCBS Board, then please follow their process for getting them involved. There is no need to bash individuals or the board on this forum. Stick to the topic of this thread. Any further off topic posts will be deleted.

jacob
08-19-2012, 05:12 PM
Didn't you read the post above you?

This issue holds a lot of anger on both sides it seems. Sorry to see something like this happen to a sport I have admired for years. I don't compete so I wouldn't begin to take sides here. Just seems that you guys are mostly friends and you are letting the actions of one man or just a few tear you apart.

Ron_L
08-19-2012, 05:15 PM
Mod Note:

This thread is a discussion of the events at the McMinnville, TN competition and the subsequent actions by the board. If there are issues with other competitions or specific individuals that should be brought to the attention of the KCBS Board, then please follow their process for getting them involved. There is no need to bash individuals or the board on this forum. Stick to the topic of this thread. Any further off topic posts will be deleted.

Was something not clear about this?

This topic has run it''s course. DMP has done the right thing by going public with his team's involvement and has publicly accepted responsibility for his team mate's actions. Unless someone has something constructive to add to the discussion I am going to closed the thread and we can all go back to discussing BBQ.

bbqbull
08-19-2012, 05:48 PM
Mod Note:

This thread is a discussion of the events at the McMinnville, TN competition and the subsequent actions by the board. If there are issues with other competitions or specific individuals that should be brought to the attention of the KCBS Board, then please follow their process for getting them involved. There is no need to bash individuals or the board on this forum. Stick to the topic of this thread. Any further off topic posts will be deleted.

Was something not clear about this?

This topic has run it''s course. DMP has done the right thing by going public with his team's involvement and has publicly accepted responsibility for his team mate's actions. Unless someone has something constructive to add to the discussion I am going to closed the thread and we can all go back to discussing BBQ. :shock::doh:

You have warned several times. I too have the power to close this thread and I promise you I will do it!!!

Please stop the allegations and name calling NOW!

WineMaster
08-19-2012, 08:47 PM
Actually, I mis-interpeted the apron because I did not believe that anyone in their right mind would wear such a thing in public unless they were drunk, blitzed or zoned.

Second, of the 11 people voting (the president only votes in case of a tie and we don't know her position on this vote), two abstained, two voted no and seven votes yes. A supermajority is normally defined as 2/3rd of thoes voting. If we count the abstentions, then 7.333 votes are needed to be a supermajority, if we don't, then only six would be needed to have a supermajority. Either way a lot of the people that we elected, made their desires known.

Or Zoned,
I for one dont know too many people that aren't Zoned at the contests. After getting up early and leaving Friday. Then cooking all night long and waiting 4-5 hrs after the last turn in for awards, along with all the adrenalin of the competition. Everyone is beat, exhausted, and in some situations incapable of rashional thoughts. Thats b-4 you throw in a couple of cold ones. It still dont excuse the behavior. Butt........

boogiesnap
08-19-2012, 09:07 PM
I'm not going to go back and look at exactly what I wrote, but what I believe I said was that I did not walk to awards with my teammate, nor did I sit at awards with him. Awards started early, and he left for them before me. By the time I got there he was at a table without room and I sat at a different table. I was not with him when he accepted the award.

dmp

i wasn't questioning you.

enjoy your vacation, this'll all still be here when you get back.