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View Full Version : Who's Judging Your Food?


FatBoyz
07-26-2012, 12:22 PM
I have a story to tell. I was given the great privlage of judging Sams Madison. While I was doing my thing with the chicken i looked at the older lady next to me me and i relized she was just licking the chicken she licked under the skin and then the top of the skin.. then she put it down and moved on to the next peace. I thought to my self well she is a MASTER JUDGE she must know what she is doing... flash forward 1 week. my good friend Fat Andy called me and said hay one of the ladys that cooked with me that i said should not be MASTER JUDGES god scolded by Buzz for not eating the chicken!!!!!! when questioned why shy was not biting the meat she said she only likes the sauce...now this is hear say on the second part but i saw the first part with my own eyes...

questions
1 how is she a judge
2 how is she a master judge
3 why arn't the rep's hearing about this kind of stuff.
4 HOW DO YOU JUDGE TENDERNESS WITH A LICK!!!!!!!!!

please KCSB dont tell me that you are going to have some bad apples in every bunch.... i spend far to much money and time to compete to here that... YOUR JOB IS TO MAKE SURE JUDGES LIKE THIS ARE NOT JUDGING OUR FOOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

oh yes i got a comment card at my sams event... i love the crunchyness of the chicken bone shard..... scores 999 lolololol

thank you all for reading please go back to watching olympic soccer

Alexa RnQ
07-26-2012, 12:28 PM
i looked at the older lady next to me me and i relized she was just licking the chicken she licked under the skin and then the top of the skin.. then she put it down and moved on to the next peace.
Did you call this to the attention of the table captain or rep?

Lake Dogs
07-26-2012, 12:28 PM
You're right. She shouldn't be let back, and she should have her CBJ revoked.

NBBD
07-26-2012, 12:29 PM
While I was doing my thing with the chicken i looked at the older lady next to me me and i relized she was just licking the chicken she licked under the skin and then the top of the skin.. then she put it down and moved on to the next peace. I thought to my self well she is a MASTER JUDGE she must know what she is doing...

Ok, Im a new judge and don't compete but isn't the point when you discretely notify the table captain ...

FatBoyz
07-26-2012, 12:33 PM
Did you call this to the attention of the table captain or rep?

buzz was the table captain... this was in Iron Mountain

FatBoyz
07-26-2012, 12:40 PM
see i did not think i should say something thay put master judges with new judges as a mentering thing.... If i ever judge again i will not be quiet

Q-Dat
07-26-2012, 12:40 PM
Wow this is discouraging....

dmprantz
07-26-2012, 12:41 PM
Did she tell you if she prefers Blues Hog or Sweet Baby Rays?

FatBoyz
07-26-2012, 12:42 PM
open pit

Zig
07-26-2012, 12:45 PM
They need to start making the judges pay the same entry fee as the teams, to be a judge for the competition. This would get rid of the dead weight.

fingerlickin'
07-26-2012, 12:45 PM
Never trust a farking chicken licker.

Lake Dogs
07-26-2012, 12:52 PM
They need to start making the judges pay the same entry fee as the teams, to be a judge for the competition. This would get rid of the dead weight.

Not really; doesn't work.

Mind you, I'm all for getting rid of dead weight. However, I recall one of the largest contests here in the south is the Big Pig Jig in Vienna. You dont hear much 'round here about this because it's a huge MBN competition. Anyway, in 2006 they had too many judges and lots of complaints about this, so they decided to weed the pack down a little and charge judges $25 to judge. Well, they went from many hundreds (like 500) of judges down to something like 80 the next year (to judge 100+ teams). That tack pretty much had FAIL all over it. They've since changed that.

Oh, bye the way, an MBN dead-weight person that I know of did pay her $25 and went that year...

Never underestimate dead-weight.

mobow
07-26-2012, 12:56 PM
The rep can't do anything if he is not notified. You should of said something the other judges at the table should of said something and your table captain should of said something. keith

motoeric
07-26-2012, 01:26 PM
They need to start making the judges pay the same entry fee as the teams, to be a judge for the competition. This would get rid of the dead weight.


Man, I'm hoping that this was a joke.

Eric

FatBoyz
07-26-2012, 01:28 PM
again folks how is this person a MASTER JUDGE... Andy said he gave them a realy bad review on there paperwork...

Parts_Guy
07-26-2012, 01:52 PM
I was cooking at this comp in MI and was cooking next to Andy. I heard this exact same thing and was ticked off more than I can say. The whole time they were announcing the awards for chicken, I kept thinking 6 teams got screwed on their chicken scores because of this 1 "master" judge.

mobow
07-26-2012, 02:08 PM
again folks how is this person a MASTER JUDGE... Andy said he gave them a realy bad review on there paperwork...
I guess 180 other people over 30 contest did not say anything either. People in WI must be more reserved than people down here. keith

FashionBiff
07-26-2012, 02:09 PM
As a rokie judge, is this a slam of judges or the system. I see this as a "system" issue not that the OP was going either way.
We were told that if you dont like it you still need to taste (bite it) it. Taste it, chew it, rate it spit it out if you are not a fan. She needs some re-education and yes table captain should have been notified.

INmitch
07-26-2012, 02:24 PM
buzz was the table captain... this was in Iron Mountain

Hhmmm...........kinda explains a little. I wonder if this was the table throwing the REALLY low scores?

Podge
07-26-2012, 04:10 PM
So, this 'master' judge has had at least 30 contests of just licking meat. And no one said anything about it during this time.. Disturbing. Very, Very disturbing.

Smoke'n Ice
07-26-2012, 04:35 PM
As a rokie judge, is this a slam of judges or the system. I see this as a "system" issue not that the OP was going either way.
We were told that if you dont like it you still need to taste (bite it) it. Taste it, chew it, rate it spit it out if you are not a fan. She needs some re-education and yes table captain should have been notified.

Actually, the table captain should have seen it with his own eyes. He then should have called the rep over and asked for a replacement judge at that point, the first time it happened on chicken. I assume it also happened on all three other meats.

If this turns out to be the case, then the table captain failed at his job. The times that I have tc'd, I watch the scores and body language and encourge the use of comments cards to the entire table while looking at the person I am directing the comment to and also mention abnormalities to the rep when I hand in the cards. This is especially true when I note a judge consistently give scores that are 2 points less than the rest of the table.

Coz
07-26-2012, 04:46 PM
To the best of my knowledge Buzz made the lady take bites . At least she isnt calling the organisers tellin em she is the Wi BBQ Association.

Coz
07-26-2012, 05:46 PM
Also I have judged at the same table as her a few years ago and she did take bites minimal but she took bites. I am not sayin I approve or disapprove of her as a judge , but until KCBS starts some kind of tracking program theres no way to "judge " if she is or isnt in the ballpark.

Podge
07-26-2012, 05:54 PM
Also I have judged at the same table as her a few years ago and she did take bites minimal but she took bites. I am not sayin I approve or disapprove of her as a judge , but until KCBS starts some kind of tracking program theres no way to "judge " if she is or isnt in the ballpark.

if she took minimal bites, I disapprove of her being a judge.. why would she be a judge of bbq ?!?!?!?.. :mad2::mad2:

Harbormaster
07-26-2012, 06:00 PM
But did she hand out '2s' for asppearence scores?

I'm truly disappointed by what I read here.

Trainwreck
07-26-2012, 06:09 PM
Billy I confirmed what you had heard but I did not blow the whistle. I can not confirm what the table captain actually did or saw as I did not talk directly to him. I confirmed what I had heard from other teams. As I said to you Billy this morning why didn't you bring it to the reps attention while you were there. I think these two judges will continue to judge until someone brings it up to the attention of the reps at a contest. Just my 2-cents. Going back to my corner now.

Podge
07-26-2012, 06:11 PM
I wish someone would give me a good reason why I should still spend $800 per contest to have these sorts of judges at a contest !!..

(now, i know this ain't the norm, as I believe 95%+ judges do the best they can, and I am friends with some great people who are judges, but a bad table with a judge like that can ruin a contest for a team or a number of teams)

FatBoyz
07-26-2012, 06:23 PM
To the best of my knowledge Buzz made the lady take bites . At least she isnt calling the organisers tellin em she is the Wi BBQ Association.

we are starting it up again ask andy or mike or buzz all are on the board. so is anita and tony, i did not know trying to help oganizers with there contest was a bad thing.

Coz
07-26-2012, 06:28 PM
if she took minimal bites, I disapprove of her being a judge.. why would she be a judge of bbq ?!?!?!?.. :mad2::mad2:

I am tryimg to stay somewhat diplomatic thru this while my blood is boiling out of my ears .I know that theres other things going on and just hate seeing the pot stirred when I believe that if people with concerns would talk with the organisers team and the reps as some have done ,would come closer to getting some resolution on the whole deal. I was there and heard all of this and expressed my concerns to the correct people as did others.

Butt Rubb'n BBQ
07-26-2012, 06:29 PM
That's because they will let anyone be a judge. There should be a much tougher criteria to become a judge.

mobow
07-26-2012, 06:29 PM
I wish someone would give me a good reason why I should still spend $800 per contest to have these sorts of judges at a contest !!..

(now, i know this ain't the norm, as I believe 95%+ judges do the best they can, and I am friends with some great people who are judges, but a bad table with a judge like that can ruin a contest for a team or a number of teams)
I think the whole table should be told they can not judge anymore. The lady for not taking bites. The other judges for not saying anything and the table captain for having his thumb up where it did not belong. keith

Coz
07-26-2012, 06:30 PM
we are starting it up again ask andy or mike or buzz all are on the board. so is anita and tony, i did not know trying to help oganizers with there contest was a bad thing.


So it is or isnt a working organisation at the present time?

Rich Parker
07-26-2012, 06:40 PM
Well this explains a lot why we got 2nd place chicken (excellent sauce) and 26th place brisket (no dayum sauce). :-P

All of the drama and i still can't wait to go back next year. The pasties were delicious.

sdbbq1234
07-26-2012, 06:41 PM
Actually, the table captain should have seen it with his own eyes. He then should have called the rep over and asked for a replacement judge at that point, the first time it happened on chicken. I assume it also happened on all three other meats.

If this turns out to be the case, then the table captain failed at his job. The times that I have tc'd, I watch the scores and body language and encourge the use of comments cards to the entire table while looking at the person I am directing the comment to and also mention abnormalities to the rep when I hand in the cards. This is especially true when I note a judge consistently give scores that are 2 points less than the rest of the table.

+1!!!

I cannot believe that the table cap did not notice this. They are a "table captain" and that means more than just holding the box for a visual, and then holding the box for samples.

But as someone else pointed out, everyone at the table is guilty is some way. SAY SOMETHING!!!!

wallace

FatBoyz
07-26-2012, 07:41 PM
So it is or isnt a working organisation at the present time?

we have the bod and are getting the legal papers done and the name changed. and yes we will be rolling out the hole thing in oct. but i dont think that we should not try to help comps now. i.e. seeing if anita can help some of the new comps. what is going on with the judges i dont think has anything to do with the organizers. i belive it is on the kcbs to make shure all judges are judging according to the training thay where given.
if you dont think we should be trying to help comps in wi let me know and i will tell everyone we need to stop. I dont know of anyone yet who is upset with andy mike and myself trying to help them.

FatBoyz
07-26-2012, 07:43 PM
+1!!!

I cannot believe that the table cap did not notice this. They are a "table captain" and that means more than just holding the box for a visual, and then holding the box for samples.

But as someone else pointed out, everyone at the table is guilty is some way. SAY SOMETHING!!!!

wallace

you are right i should have said something in madison when i saw this. i was in the wrong for not saying something.

Boss Hog Wild
07-26-2012, 09:23 PM
I am going to open my mouth when a large part of me is telling me to keep it shut. First off, if there was an issue with this judge I as an organizer was not aware of it, and I know the two reps were not aware of it. Prior to our event, I spoke to the reps about every judge that i may have had a concern with. And yes... organizers talk to each other about judges and about teams. There are good and bad in both camps. As far as helping organizers with events i will simply say that the best people to help organizers are other organizers. I judge, I table captain, I cook on a team, I organize and I even get to occasionally lecture at the culinary school bbq class. Nobody knows the shoes an organizer has to wear except another organizer. ORGANIZERS need to be the ones helping and supporting other organizers. Sorry to say, but cooks inherantly come at it from a biased postion, as do judges. And I will argue to the gates of hell about that fact. I think it is upon the shoulders of all of us, judges, teams, and organizers to work together to make this a better sport. Silence will only mask the issue as unseen. Speaking up, in a constructive and positive manner is the only way to make improvements that will bring about effective change. As I have heard the story, and it is like fifth hand by the time it got to me today, the table captain saw the situation, commented on it, and it was corrected. So apparently the judge tasted the chicken as require. Albeit with proding that should have not been neccessary.

Coz
07-26-2012, 10:12 PM
we have the bod and are getting the legal papers done and the name changed. and yes we will be rolling out the hole thing in oct. but i dont think that we should not try to help comps now. i.e. seeing if anita can help some of the new comps. what is going on with the judges i dont think has anything to do with the organizers. i belive it is on the kcbs to make shure all judges are judging according to the training thay where given.
if you dont think we should be trying to help comps in wi let me know and i will tell everyone we need to stop. I dont know of anyone yet who is upset with andy mike and myself trying to help them.

I think offering advice to organisers is fine .Representing yourself as someone speaking for the cooks as a whole thats another story . As a person whos name you used with a couple of organisers earlier in the year without permission that is unforgivable. Deny all you want they called me. Most of us who have been here 3 or 4 years havent forgot you mooning the cameras at the Falls contest or you ranting and raving on here about how stupid the organisers are etc .Yep your the guy I want telling the organisers how to run a contest .

Sylvie
07-26-2012, 10:30 PM
A number of teams in Southern Califonia have voiced concerns with a judge who thinks he can detect phosphates and their chemical aftertaste in meats and makes comments to that effect with lower taste and texture scores though often the cook states there were no phosphates used. (Phosphates are odorless and tasteless per a respected source).

It has been reported to the KCBS BOD though the rep at one specific contest failed to acknowledge there was problem with this judge who was noted as an experienced judge and cook. I received responses which noted that this is like a judge not liking spicy or sweet which it seems is acceptable.

I was also informed that the organizers of events have the right to not accept specific judges for an event. The reps know who the bad judges are but the cooks do not. Referring the organizer to contact the reps to identify the bad judges is about all we as cooks can do until a better system is developed.

I know this is unlike a judge witnessing another judge doing wrong. The problem is still bad judges who as masters or experienced cooks and judges are spoiling it for the cooks meats they judge.

Bottom line is we as cooks also have to push the reps and organizers to not accept these identified bad judges who may be at an event.

afreemaniii
07-26-2012, 10:58 PM
So which competition did this occur at? Was it at Sam's Club in Madison or at UP Hog Wild? Your posts are contradicting each other.

Bentley
07-26-2012, 11:32 PM
That's because they will let anyone be a judge. There should be a much tougher criteria to become a judge.


An what should that tougher criteria be?

FatBoyz
07-27-2012, 12:28 AM
i am not sure why this has gone the way it has . i am talking about a judge NOT an organizer...this tread is not about how to organize or who should or should not give advice... "by the way i did organize a comp for 3 years it was not sactioned but it was a comp." I dont think bad judging has anything to do with the organizer it has to do with the KCBS. so if some people feel the need to azz pack me do it in a PM. i talked to 3 or 4 people before i posted this. this is about judging and judging only. i know if i am going to spend $1000 or more on a comp i want to think that im geting the best judges i can. in the last 4 comp's i've done i thing the judging i got was spot on. but i do have to wonder it the folks getting judged at this table with this person are being judge fairly. IN NO WAY IS THIS TREAD ABOUT ANY CERTIAN COMP OR ANY ORGANIZER!!!!!!!!!!!if in any way i made this confuzing i am sorry but i hope this fixes that!!!

CivilWarBBQ
07-27-2012, 01:37 AM
The solution for this sort of thing is much better Table Captain training, not judges. Ask 1000 CBJs if licking chicken is proper sampling and 999 will say "Hell no!". Unfortunately there is always that one oddball that decides their way is better than what they have been told repeatedly by KCBS, and the only way to catch and weed out these people is by making sure Table Captains are paying close attention to the judges at their table and making them more confident in their part of the process.

Currently TCs are fed more warnings about taking any action than they are helpful tips on what sort of judging problems to watch for and what to do about it. The constant mantra of "You can't do anything - go ask the Rep" leaves the new TC feeling like their purpose is only to pick up trash and pass out water.

For me, if I had to choose between having solid Table Captains or tables full of Master Judges I'll take good TC's every time.

2Fat
07-27-2012, 06:22 AM
as the TC in mentioned incident maybe can throw a little light on the incident--when observing said judge tasting with tongue told her to make sure she bites it too--she did and had eaten previous pcs too--her scores were on the high end all day.
Think there is a problem sometimes with judges taking smaller bites so there is more food to take home that is the bigger issue to me--the only solution would be the banning of take home containers!

FatBoyz
07-27-2012, 06:37 AM
no i think buzz did the right thing all the way. i feel i was wrong to say nothing when i saw this happining.

Bentley
07-27-2012, 08:44 AM
I dont think bad judging has anything to do with the organizer it has to do with the KCBS.


I was under the impression that the Promoter of the Competition selects judges? If that is not true and the KCBS Reps select them then I agree with your statement. If on the other hand, the Promoter is the one responsible for selecting the judges and getting them to the tables for the KCBS Reps to work with, you could not be more wrong.

As Sylvie pointed out, if a judge shows a predisposition to show bias, and refuses to even consider change, it is incumbant upon the Promoter if they have the power, to make sure this judge is not seated until they have been able to work through these issues.

carlyle
07-27-2012, 10:01 AM
It is the promoter/ organizer who collects judge applications and decides who gets seated to judge a KCBS contest.

That is my job with our contest. If I have had a bad experience with a judge for whatever reason, they do not return. I am very thankful that so far I have not had to exclude anyone.

There needs to be clear communication between the CBJ's, TC's , Reps and organizers to detect and correct problems.

Parts_Guy
07-27-2012, 10:08 AM
So which competition did this occur at? Was it at Sam's Club in Madison or at UP Hog Wild? Your posts are contradicting each other.

UP Hog Wild.

afreemaniii
07-27-2012, 12:18 PM
UP Hog Wild.

Thanks for clearing that up. The first post on the thread stated that this happened at a Sam's Club event in Madison, weird.

Smoke Ring
07-27-2012, 12:46 PM
Also I have judged at the same table as her a few years ago and she did take bites minimal but she took bites. I am not sayin I approve or disapprove of her as a judge , but until KCBS starts some kind of tracking program theres no way to "judge " if she is or isnt in the ballpark.

If KCBS hadn't kicked us out and handed the development over to MMA the judge tracking would have been implemented by now.

FatBoyz
07-27-2012, 01:13 PM
it did happen in sams madison. i was sitting one away from her. that was my point she does it all the time. i talked with buzz about it today and i told him when i saw this in madison i really did not know to say anything. Is this a good exsample of why we need furthering education?

JD McGee
07-27-2012, 01:29 PM
LMAO!...:loco: Could explain our scores this year if we have any chicken lickers out here...lol!

Parts_Guy
07-27-2012, 01:34 PM
Thanks for clearing that up. The first post on the thread stated that this happened at a Sam's Club event in Madison, weird.

I think it happened at both but the majority of the story carried over into the UP Hog Wild comp.

G$
07-27-2012, 01:50 PM
Yeah, the good news in all of this is that I HAVE perfected a bite through chicken sauce recipe.

JD McGee
07-27-2012, 03:39 PM
Yeah, the good news in all of this is that I HAVE perfected a bite through chicken sauce recipe.

Totally useless...ya gotta go with "lick-thru"...get that perfect tongue mark on there...:tongue:

Leatherheadiowa
07-28-2012, 08:28 AM
Why doesn't someone with first hand knowledge of who the person is call her out by name and help other organizers and cooks out? Beating around the bush protecting a chicken licker isn't helping the situation any. What has happened isn't going to change but issues in the future could be mitigated. Sometimes the humiliation will change behaviors or the problem itself fades away, sitting around waiting for something to change typically doesn't work.
Like someone said before, we all have a great deal invested and per KCBS, the sanctioning and rules are in place to give everyone an even and fair chance.