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View Full Version : Legal Help wanted, what shall I do when I meet a cheater from BBQ-Brethren


woodpelletsmoker
07-17-2012, 10:19 PM
A member of bbq-brethren bought my controller and gravity feed burner from eBay on June 04.2012. I sent out the goods on June 07,2012.
As he paid sea and land mail cost, I sent the goods by sea and land mail, which will usually take 8 weeks.
This buyer left negative feedback on eBay.
I do not know the secret trick of his deal, but today eBay told me that his fund is not available, and I am forced paying back US$328 to eBay.
This means this buyer paying nothing to get my Burner and Controller.
What can I do it.
Personally I would pay for anything I can afford to to fight the bad people
e-commerce needs a clean environmental to grow healthily.
At this time, I do not publish his BBQ-Brethren.com ID.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
For the time being I hide his full email and tel. no.

Business Name:
******
Email:
XX@yahoo.com (mike.simonXX@yahoo.com)

Business Contact Information

Customer Service URL: http://www.***** (http://www.Stylishborders.com)
*****@yahoo.com (mike.simonXX@yahoo.com)
Customer Service Phone:
-XXXX

Total refund amount:
-$328.00 USD
PayPal fee refund:
$13.09 USD
Refund from your account:
-$314.91 USD

Date:
2012-Jul-17
Time:
07:43:03 PDT
Status:
Placed

PayPal has placed a temporary hold while we're reviewing it. We'll contact you shortly with further information.

Ron_L
07-17-2012, 10:22 PM
You need to work this out through eBay. If he's somehow withdrawn his payment he is in violation of the agreement between buyer and seller. eBay has a process for this.

woodpelletsmoker
07-17-2012, 10:44 PM
find the trick.
The buyer asks for refund by "not receiving the goods"

My Spit Motor, 3 Skewer Rotisserie, Smoker, Burner are heavy metal things while the value is lower. Air mail cost will be prohibitive.
Usually I send surface mail (sea and land).
Unfortunately Surface mail takes 8 weeks.
I state these clearly in my eBay description.

But this bad people takes use of this and tries to get free things from me.

I am doing e-commerce since 1997 and main market is American.
It is oil painting (www.oilpaintingshop.com), which is sent by air mail.
Usually air mail takes 2 weeks. Even un-deliverable, the parcel will be sent back to me within 5 weeks. If after 5 weeks, the buyer or I fail to get the parcel, it means the parcel is lost. It happens one or two times a year. In this case I send second piece to buyer.

The base of e-commerce is trust and honest.
I am trusting American so many years and American are so honest.
e-commerce save cost, and buyers can pay much less than buying from a local retailer. and I can also earn a little extra

But today I get hit so much.

mytmouz
07-17-2012, 11:51 PM
Exactly why I stopped selling on Ebay. I saw the hand writing on the wall when they would no longer allow sellers to leave negative buyer feed back. They decided that sellers were their 'employees' and they make the rules. Rule #1 is the customer is always right. You must make the customer happy, and they side with the buyer in most every case. Funny thing is though, the sellers are not their 'employees' but their customers...

woodpelletsmoker
07-18-2012, 12:34 AM
Does eBay know that the bad buyers are ruining eBay.
I am chinese in Beijing China, still I understand the word of "mutual"

woodpelletsmoker
07-19-2012, 12:15 AM
I find from the "active visitors", that ID is reading my posts.
He may be smiling by successfully stealing from China and I can do nothing toward him.
He left ugly negative feedback on eBay and I can not argue, and I can not leave negative feedback to him.
I am written an request to track the parcel. When I receive officially reply, I must send post cards to his neibhours, local newspaper, police station, and local school. What what do you recommend.
Today I meet second bad buyer from eBay, not member here.
Bad people are ruining the e-commerce one day.

timzcardz
07-19-2012, 07:14 AM
Woodpellet, I have to question why this is even posted here, as in my mind it really has nothing to do with the Brethren, other than you did businerss with someone, somewhere elase, who also happens to be a Brethren.


However, what did you expect to happen?


You SHOULD know Ebay/PayPal rules.

Buyer bought on June 4.

You shipped on June 7.

Under PayPal rules, buyer has 45 days to file a claim.

It appears that buyer waited almost all, if not all of those 45 days.

If you can't prove delivery, PayPal finds in favor of Buyer and refunds. You KNOW that, or at least SHOULD KNOW that if you are doing business.

If buyer doesn't file a claim, and never receives merchandise, then the buyer is out of luck. Again, YOU should know that.

Buyer may very well issue you payment again, once merchandise is received. Time will tell.

Whether it is right or wrong, YOU are the one that willingly chose to engage in the Ebay/PayPal business model, so you really have no right to complain about the outcome, which by the way, is still to be determined.

The buyer has played by the rules that you chose to integegrate into your business, and may have taken the required steps within the system that YOU CHOSE to protect their financial interests. That's called good business.

To come here and allege that a Brethren is a cheat, because they are engaging in a business transaction in accordance with the rules that YOU CHOSE, in my mind is just wrong.

I would expect that if the merchandise is finally delivered, and you receive a new payment, that you will come back and explain that you jumped to the wrong conclusion.

woodpelletsmoker
07-19-2012, 11:23 AM
People are social lives.
I know it is stupid and helpless. But I feel relief to speak out.
I state very clearly about delivery time of 8 weeks in the description.
It has nothing to do with the 45 days protect if he knows the delivery time of 8 weeks and still places the order

deguerre
07-19-2012, 11:30 AM
Personally, I would have waited the 8 weeks, and then contacted YOU directly if it hadn't arrived yet instead of reporting it to the website first.

timzcardz
07-19-2012, 11:33 AM
It has nothing to do with the 45 days protect if he knows the delivery time of 8 weeks and still places the order

Actually it has everything to do with it, because regardless of the 8 weeks delivery time, you still agreed to PayPal terms when you agreed to take payment in that manner.

Wait and see how it turns out in the end. You really don't have another choice anyway.

timzcardz
07-19-2012, 11:44 AM
Personally, I would have waited the 8 weeks, and then contacted YOU directly if it hadn't arrived yet instead of reporting it to the website first.

Guerry, I may have also, but that doesn't mean that someone that doesn't is a cheat. Remember, we are only hearing one side.

Business is business.

I have bought several things, OK, sportscards, from sellers in Asia. What I have found is that I can get them at a significanlty better price because buyers are wary of time required to get them. I've never had a problem, but I have also been very careful about following Ebay/PayPal rules to be sure that I am protected in the event that there is an issue.

The seller gets to set the rules, by their choice of selling venue in this case. I certainly can't fault a buyer for playing by those rules.

I am assuming that the buyer is using the rules to protect themself and not to work the system for free stuff. Time will tell if that is a valid assumption or not.

deguerre
07-19-2012, 11:48 AM
Oh, I wasn't questioning your logic at all Tim. Perfectly understandable. Here's hoping everything works out for both.

Squeal Appeal
07-19-2012, 12:04 PM
Wood Pellet Burner Transfer Grill BBQ Smoker to Automatic Pit, burn charcoal too



trustedinventer (http://myworld.ebay.com/trustedinventer?_trksid=p2047675.l2559) ( 203 (http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback&userid=trustedinventer&iid=140627075018&ssPageName=VIP:feedback&ftab=FeedbackAsSeller&_trksid=p2047675.l2560)http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/icon/iconTealStar_25x25.gif)
95.4% Positive feedback



http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/s.gif pellet-pits (http://stores.ebay.com/pellet-pits?_trksid=p2047675.l2563)



More than 10 available / 9 sold (http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBidsLogin&_trksid=p2047675.l2564&rt=nc&item=140627075018)





Item location:
BEIJING, CN, China


Ships to:
Worldwide




Delivery: SEE POST BELOW FOR LISTED SHIPPING TIME

If purchsaed today this is how your delivery time is stated,,, There is nothing stated about 8 weeks....Also i am Not a Theif or a cheat,,, and for you to come on this forum and post my info and making the statements you have made is SLANDER.... I also request that you be removed from these forums for making these posts and statements......all i have done is protect myself in my purchase as other members have stated. I still have not received my product...............I will be sending all of your post to ebay and paypal requesting you be removed from there sites as a seller, if you continue to SLANDER and make threats about me....THIS SHOULD NOT BE OUT HERE>>> This is between you , me and PAYPAL...:evil:

Squeal Appeal
07-19-2012, 12:06 PM
Item condition:
New

Quantity:
http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/s.gif
More than 10 available / 9 sold (http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBidsLogin&_trksid=p2047675.l2564&rt=nc&item=140627075018)





Item location:
BEIJING, CN, China


Ships to:
Worldwide


Estimated between Fri. Aug. 17 and Thu. Aug. 30 (javascript:;) Estimated delivery dates [newWindowTxt] (http://pages.ebay.com/help/buy/contextual/estimated-delivery.html) include seller's handling time, and will depend on shipping service selected and receipt of cleared payment[newWindowTxt] (http://pages.ebay.com/help/buy/contextual/domestic-handling-time.html). Delivery times may vary, especially during peak periods.

Squeal Appeal
07-19-2012, 01:36 PM
Nuf Said !!!:boxing:

woodpelletsmoker
07-19-2012, 01:58 PM
Sorry for my mistake.
I did not state 8 weeks in the description. I told the buyer by eBay message sent to him on Jun-02-12 06:34 AM


To: rags-two-riches
From: trustedinventer
Sent: Jun-02-12 06:34 AM

eBay sent this message to Zhaohui Wang (trustedinventer).
Your registered name is included to show this message originated from eBay. Learn more.
This member has a question for you.
Do not respond to the sender if this message requests that you complete the transaction outside of eBay. This type of offer is against eBay policy, may be fraudulent, and is not covered by buyer protection programs. Learn More.

Dear rags-two-riches,

Thanks for your order.
List price of $99 is for WOLF only.
WOLF Fan Adapter US$128.
If sent together with Burner, free mail cost for WOLF packge.

Right now there are 2 burners are available.
Burner made from 3 mm single wall stainless steel. Size 6"x6"x20", price is US$130, mail cost door to door US$70
and
Burner of double walls of 1 mm and 2 mm with heat insulator, size 7"x7"x 20",price is US$150,mail cost door to door US$80.

Please confirm what you want, I will send you invoice acordingly

I will send sea and land mail, which usually takes 8 weeks
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Please pay attention to the last words

landarc
07-19-2012, 02:08 PM
Maybe he actually didn't get the unit?

BBQchef33
07-19-2012, 02:10 PM
At this point it is HIGHLY RECOMMENDED that this be taken private and the parties work this out. As usual there are 2 sides to every story and there is not need to air it here..

timzcardz
07-19-2012, 02:11 PM
landarc!

Your signature looks like it was written specifically for your post above! :clap:

woodpelletsmoker
07-19-2012, 02:32 PM
I just want to hear advise from BBQ Brethren
I did not publish his ID of BBQ-Brethren
Please read my post again and pay attention to "At this time, I do not publish his BBQ-Brethren.com ID." and I also hide his full email address.
I do not air him, but a general discussion
It is him, the buyer airs his ID to all Brethren here.

cameraman
07-19-2012, 02:33 PM
Maybe he actually didn't get the unit?

The email is dated June2. So it's about 6 weeks in. ebay is getting worse all the time. I hesitate to do business with anyone under a 99 rating. It's tough for a seller to have no recourse to a negative response but sellers were countering valid buyer negatives with vindictive negatives and ebay wasn't doing anything about it. I had my 100 rating besmirched by one such vindictive phark who sent me a low end version of a motherboard I ordered and refused to correct the problem. He was eventually bounced from the site and my purity was restored. To the original poster I would say you have to do everything possible to protect your ratings and inform your buyers (which it appeared you did.) You must also be persistent on holding ebay accountable to hold up their responsibilities to you. The buyers make it possible, but the sellers pay the bills.

woodpelletsmoker
07-19-2012, 02:49 PM
If you can't prove delivery, PayPal finds in favor of Buyer and refunds. You KNOW that, or at least SHOULD KNOW that if you are doing business.

Yes I took a photography of original receipt from China Post Group and sent to Paypal.

I sent message to the buyer stating sea and land mail takes 8 weeks on June 02.

Buyer paid for on June 04.

I sent on June 07

Buyer sent eBay ugly words about me on July13

Buyer left me negative feedback on July 13

Buyer left me negative feedback second time on July 19

woodpelletsmoker
07-19-2012, 02:51 PM
Feedback From/price Date/time
Filed Claim with Paypal, nvr received,Buyer Beware,Calls me theif on BBQ forums- Buyer: rags-two-riches ( 118) Jul-19-12 11:46
Wood Pellet Burner Transfer Grill BBQ Smoker to Automatic Pit, burn charcoal too (#140627075018) US $100.00 View Item
Very nice,thank you Buyer: cuplex ( 251) Jul-19-12 08:59
Charcoal Burning BBQ Grill Smoker Pit Temperature Controller, 600' Remote, WIFI (#140654979876) US $99.00 View Item
just as listed Buyer: sly2304 ( 159) Jul-16-12 08:14
Wood Pellet Burner Transfer Grill BBQ Smoker to Automatic Pit, burn charcoal too (#140627075018) US $100.00 View Item
just as listed Buyer: sly2304 ( 159) Jul-16-12 08:14
Wood Pellet Burner Transfer Grill BBQ Smoker to Automatic Pit, burn charcoal too (#140627075018) US $100.00 View Item
just as listed Buyer: sly2304 ( 159) Jul-16-12 08:14
Charcoal Burning BBQ Grill Smoker Pit Temperature Controller, 600' Remote, WIFI (#140654979876) US $99.00 View Item
Shipping isTerrible,,combined items fee 2 ship was 79.90. 6 weeks still not here Buyer: rags-two-riches ( 118) Jul-13-12 07:12
Charcoal Burning BBQ Grill Smoker Pit Temperature Controller, 600' Remote, WIFI (#140654979876) US $99.00 View Item

Squeal Appeal
07-19-2012, 02:56 PM
I just want to hear advise from BBQ Brethren
I did not publish his ID of BBQ-Brethren
Please read my post again and pay attention to "At this time, I do not publish his BBQ-Brethren.com ID." and I also hide his full email address.
I do not air him, but a general discussion
It is him, the buyer airs his ID to all Brethren here.


1. At this time... was a threat to me. I felt i needed to reply. Best thing to do is drop the whole thing. It might bite you in your ass

2.It is him, the buyer airs his ID to all Brethren here...(Smart ASS).. We can read...

3. Good luck with your business.....

4. My appologises to all the BBQ Breathren

woodpelletsmoker
07-19-2012, 02:58 PM
Any way this is a good lesson for me.
Soon or later I must meet this problem.
Later on, if buyer selects delivery of sea and land mail, he or she must declare in this paypal payment form that he will wait for delivery of 8 weeks before asking for refund.
My negative feedbacks are mostly from delivery problem.
A few buyers always want to pay least shipping cost but ignore that I am on the other side of the earth

FlavorSavor
07-19-2012, 03:58 PM
I buy stuff from China on a regular basis via eBay. Mainly parts for my plotter/cutters - I don't understand how they sell these parts so cheaply in China. Anyway, waiting several weeks is not unusual, even for the smallest of parts.

Personally, I think you have every right to be upset and I think your comments here are justified to warn other Brethren who may be considering doing business with this individual. So, thanks for the heads up.

plethoraofpinatas
07-19-2012, 04:53 PM
This is definitely a matter for Ebay/Paypal and in my opinion a dispute over payment and/or delivery of products purchased on Ebay/Paypal is not "on topic" for this forum. Woodpelletsmoker and Squeal Appeal should take their business private to prevent any further detrimental posting on the part of either Brethren. I fear a repeat of the Huntington County Customs debacle.

HawgNationBBQ
07-19-2012, 05:09 PM
Iíve tried to think through both side of this and still feel this is not the place for this discussion. I canít understand how any of this is on topic and relative to the brethren site. As many have said, I would discuss this offline between the two of you and PayPal/EBay. Good luck.

Teamfour
07-19-2012, 05:38 PM
Having sold hundreds of items on eBay, I can advise you to NEVER ship items till the payment is in your bank account.

Plus, theist thread doesn't belong here.

Squeal Appeal
07-19-2012, 05:44 PM
I have taken this Private,as far as i am concerned!!!!! Lock this thread or remove it. It doesn't belong here........

Pitmaster T
07-19-2012, 05:54 PM
and for you to come on this forum and post my info and making the statements you have made is SLANDER....

if you continue to SLANDER and make threats about me....THIS SHOULD NOT BE OUT HERE>>> This is between you , me and PAYPAL...:evil:

I agree with this. Where is our integrity? (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=135662&highlight=integrity)

However... this would be libel, not slander. You sue for libel when someone "writes" something. Slander is from an "oral utterance."

My posts are trying to help.... which reminds me of another saying...

Pitmaster T
07-19-2012, 05:58 PM
Having sold hundreds of items on eBay, I can advise you to NEVER ship items till the payment is in your bank account.

Plus, theist thread doesn't belong here.


Team four, I totally agree... in fact, I think it a bit naive to just hope everything pans out... esp. internationally....

Like we say in Texas, "You can dress Kim Fields up like Elvis and let Ms. Garret do the pre-lube, but no amount of rouge is gonna get Liberace to rise from the dead.

http://imageretouchingblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/Elvis+Liberace_Retouched.jpg

Ron_L
07-19-2012, 07:59 PM
This thread is closed and the matter is being handled privately.