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View Full Version : I need help with a new comp system/rules


PatioDaddio
07-14-2012, 04:57 PM
Back in May I posted (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=134025) an idea for a new non-denominational (think open
source) competition process and scoring system. Well, I've completed the
first cut of the Open BBQ rules and I'd really appreciate your thoughts.

Here (http://files.patiodaddiobbq.com/docs/OpenBBQCompetitionRules.pdf) they are.

Thanks in advance,
John

bbqbrad
07-14-2012, 05:07 PM
link not working...

PatioDaddio
07-14-2012, 05:26 PM
Sorry. I fixed it.

John

Theresa B
07-14-2012, 05:26 PM
:sad:

Theresa B
07-14-2012, 05:27 PM
Sorry, the website openbbqcompetitionrules.pdf cannot be found.....10 seconds ago.

Tack
07-14-2012, 05:32 PM
It worked for me

dmprantz
07-14-2012, 06:52 PM
This is great. I wanted to do something similar for unsanctioned comps in Tennessee. A lot of teams liked the idea but no organizers wanted it and local associations wanted to sell it. If I can help at all let me know and share the requirements to use it. With my proposed system it was going to be required to be free and copy written so that no one could charge for them.

Shiz-Nit
07-14-2012, 07:01 PM
Section 5 states
Any BEEF can be cooked whole at least 5 pounds

Section 12 states
You have to turn in BRISKET?


Other than a quick over view okay

PatioDaddio
07-14-2012, 07:03 PM
Section 5 states
Any BEEF can be cooked whole at least 5 pounds

Section 12 states
You have to turn in BRISKET?

Other than a quick over view okay

Thanks! I'll fix that. It should be simply "beef".

John

Ford
07-14-2012, 07:04 PM
Need to address fire dept requirements for propane cookers. A lot of local fd's will have local requirements. Make it generic.

PatioDaddio
07-14-2012, 07:22 PM
Thanks! I'll fix that. It should be simply "beef".

John

Fixed!

John

PatioDaddio
07-14-2012, 07:30 PM
Need to address fire dept requirements for propane cookers. A lot of local fd's will have local requirements. Make it generic.

I've added the red below. Does that cover it sufficiently?

6. Cookers & Fuels
Any charcoal, wood or gas grill or cooker designed for outdoor cooking is permitted.
Electric cookers are prohibited.

Fuel may consist of wood, charcoal or propane, or any combination thereof.

The types of cookers and/or fuel may be limited by local fire requirements,
regulations, or policies. Itís the responsibility of the contest organizer and
representative to make any such limitations known prior to the contest.

The team captain is responsible for the safe and prudent operation of each of the
teamís cookers at all times.
John

Boshizzle
07-14-2012, 08:41 PM
A couple of thoughts, electric cookers make better barbecue than propane fueled cookers, IMO. So, why the hate on electric cookers?

Also, "proper and courteous behavior" is pretty subjective. And, wouldn't "public intoxication" be covered under local law?


What's the difference between country style ribs and sliced pork shoulder?

How do you prove that meat purchased from local butcher was UDSA inspected especially in the case of pork where the stamp may be on the ham and the contestant is cooking a butt and ribs?

Your rules say that if a team consists of two or more cooks a captain must be identified. Then, it says that the team captain must attend the cook's meeting. What if there is a team with a single member? There is nothing in the rules that requires a team captain or attendance at a cook's meeting.


" If for any reason the team captain is not able to attend, he or she must contact
the representative to make other arrangements." Other arrangements for what? I think some specifics are needed here.


"The representative must ensure that all meat inspections are
completed the day prior to turn-in." Should be more specific. "The day prior" could mean as late as 12am.


"No seasoning or cooking of any kind is permitted until after the meat inspection." What about meat enhanced by the packer?


1. Chicken: 11:00 AM
2. Pork Ribs: 12:00 PM
3. Pork: 1:00 PM
4. Beef: 2:00 PM

That's a lot of time between turn ins. I'd get very bored waiting that schedule out.

"All judging will be blind." Probably needs some explanation.

"The use of any eating utensils at the judging table is prohibited." This is extreme and makes no sense. I can see that judges shouldn't need utensils to judge the BBQ but sometimes they are needed to get the BBQ out of the box especially when pulled and chopped meat is involved.

"7. The table captain ensures that all scores for the entry." I have no idea what that means.


I may have more after I read it again. But, "non-denominational" insinuates non-dogmatic so there is a balance that must be found where the rules are not dogmatic about being non-dogmatic or non-denominational because, apparently, dogmatic is bad. Also, you are running the risk of creating a new denomination with all of these rules that are slightly different than other sanctioning body rules.

PatioDaddio
07-14-2012, 09:08 PM
Thanks for your thoughts.

John

PatioDaddio
07-14-2012, 09:38 PM
A couple of thoughts, electric cookers make better barbecue than propane fueled cookers, IMO. So, why the hate on electric cookers?

No hate. I just think that the minimum to be considered BBQ is some form
of flame. Also, electric cookers obviously require electricity, which can be a
pain for organizers, and it can be unsafe for surrounding teams if those
using them are careless.

Also, "proper and courteous behavior" is pretty subjective. And, wouldn't "public intoxication" be covered under local law?

Public intoxication is very subjective, as are many laws. Check the KCBS
rules, there's a very similar paragraph. The goal is to keep things family-
friendly.

What's the difference between country style ribs and sliced pork shoulder?

One is sliced into "ribs" and the other is whole.

How do you prove that meat purchased from local butcher was UDSA inspected especially in the case of pork where the stamp may be on the ham and the contestant is cooking a butt and ribs?

I'll have to think about this. The intention is to keep Billy Bob from bringing
meat from an animal that he killed and butchered in his backyard.

Your rules say that if a team consists of two or more cooks a captain must be identified. Then, it says that the team captain must attend the cook's meeting. What if there is a team with a single member? There is nothing in the rules that requires a team captain or attendance at a cook's meeting.

Clearly in a one-man team (I am one) the sole cook wears all hats. That's
brain-dead easy, but I will add a statement that a solo cook is his own
team captain.

"If for any reason the team captain is not able to attend, he or she must contact
the representative to make other arrangements." Other arrangements for what? I think some specifics are needed here.

Other arrangements like, "Hey, I can't make the meeting. Is there anything
that we need to know? Oh, and where can I pick up my turn-in boxes?"

"The representative must ensure that all meat inspections are
completed the day prior to turn-in." Should be more specific. "The day prior" could mean as late as 12am.

Yup, there are often teams that arrive very late. I don't want to
unnecessarily handcuff the representative.

"No seasoning or cooking of any kind is permitted until after the meat inspection." What about meat enhanced by the packer?

I'll add an exception for that.


1. Chicken: 11:00 AM
2. Pork Ribs: 12:00 PM
3. Pork: 1:00 PM
4. Beef: 2:00 PM

That's a lot of time between turn ins. I'd get very bored waiting that schedule out.


Yep, it is intentionally long to give new teams some breathing room. Many
other sanctioning bodies use one-hour intervals.

"All judging will be blind." Probably needs some explanation.

I think it's fairly self-explanatory.

"The use of any eating utensils at the judging table is prohibited." This is extreme and makes no sense. I can see that judges shouldn't need utensils to judge the BBQ but sometimes they are needed to get the BBQ out of the box especially when pulled and chopped meat is involved.

It says "eating utensils", not "serving utensils".

"7. The table captain ensures that all scores for the entry." I have no idea what that means.

Thanks. This has beed corrected.

I may have more after I read it again. But, "non-denominational" insinuates non-dogmatic so there is a balance that must be found where the rules are not dogmatic about being non-dogmatic or non-denominational because, apparently, dogmatic is bad. Also, you are running the risk of creating a new denomination with all of these rules that are slightly different than other sanctioning body rules.

Boshizzle
07-14-2012, 10:43 PM
I have been heavily involved in three first time comps this year and the concept of "blind judging" is foreign to them. I think some additional explanation is necessary.

I can understand and greatly appreciate "family friendly" but redundancy is not needed.

I still think the utensils thing needs more explanation based on my experience with KCBS.

And, be very clear on the country style ribs thing.

Good luck!

Lake Dogs
07-15-2012, 08:56 AM
Generally I liked it, but IMHO "country style ribs" shouldn't be in a rib category. You'd mentioned that they'd been "cut into ribs". They're not ribs though. Very different taste, texture, type of cooking, can't pull them from a rib bone.

Otherwise, pretty darned good. I rather like the beef being beef category. Pondering, if someone found a large set of beef ribs (over 5lbs), that would qualify, yes?

PatioDaddio
07-15-2012, 10:57 AM
Pondering, if someone found a large set of beef ribs (over 5lbs), that would qualify, yes?

Yup, totally legal.

John

sitnfat
07-15-2012, 10:16 PM
The Murphysboro contest has long waits between turn ins it was miserable waiting

PatioDaddio
07-16-2012, 12:01 AM
I think a 45-minute turn-in interval would be perfect, but that
seems really weird. Is it?

John