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Podge
07-10-2012, 03:19 PM
To you CBJs and MCBJs..two questions..

When you took the judging class, how did they teach you to judge pork? After learning that, how do you judge pork at a contest?

mobow
07-10-2012, 03:46 PM
I think that pork is one of the weaker categories as far as guidance as to what to judge for. It should be moist and tender but not mushy is about all you get. Should not dissolve if pressed up into the roof of the mouth. So, if it is moist and tender to my bite and chew rather than dry and tough or mushy I score it well. Knowing the difference has really come more from experience of eating many different samples over the years more than what I got from the class. Also taught that it can be sliced, chopped and or pulled. keith

Podge
07-10-2012, 05:45 PM
After seeing comments on here recently about very good teams scoring so wildly from one contest to the next in pork, makes me wonder.

Bourbon Barrel BBQ
07-10-2012, 08:58 PM
I'd give anything to learn what scores high in pork consistently. Key word being consistently.

Drh7003
07-10-2012, 09:02 PM
I think MoBo hit the high points as far as what is taught. I think it comes down to the individual judge's palate. But, I could be wrong...

Rookie'48
07-10-2012, 11:29 PM
If I remember right . . . we were taught more about tenderness than anything else. Like Keith said ^^^^^ above. Experience has done more for me than the first class did but I think that helping out at a few other CBJ classes did a lot, also.

GreenDrake
07-11-2012, 07:21 AM
From what I can see, 1st place today can take DAL tomorrow.

Lake Dogs
07-11-2012, 07:51 AM
To you CBJ’s and MCBJ’s..two questions..

When you took the judging class, how did they teach you to judge pork? After learning that, how do you judge pork at a contest?

You're asking regarding KCBS, yes?

In MIM/MBN class (which is an all day class) it's stressed fairly heavily, probably more so than anything else (at least in the class that I took),
talking about how to squeeze it, pll it apart, put it in the roof of your mouth, and when chewing it...

GBA is similar to MIM/MBN above and stressed fairly heavily, but not nearly as much as MIM/MBN.


I judge pork to the standards set forth by the sanctioning body. In my case, their standards are the same.

bigabyte
07-11-2012, 09:32 AM
This was as presented to me a couple years back by Ed Roith. This is based on my recall, and looking at the handbook and notes from that day.

Tender but not mushy, moist. Bark is optional, and can vary in texture, but should be tasty.

For all categories, taste was discussed, which meant the same applied to pork. That was to judge it based on the way it was intended to be presented. If you don't like spicy but find it spicy, don't score down for it because it was intended to be spicy. Instead judge it on the flavor as intended. I still hear many judges saying they scored an entry down for being too spicy, even judges who are quick to criticize the judging methods of others. Just this year there was a "chicken wing" category, and someone turned in some sweet and spicy jalapeno bbq wings. I didn't think they were all that hot, but had a noticeable kick. Two other CBJ's at the table, one an MCBJ, commented that it was too spicy and was their least favorite entry. I don't know if they scored down for it though, I did not have time to ask because we were breaking down the tent at that point. They could have just been saying it was their least favorite personally. It's a best effort on any day to be as fair and impartial as possible, but flavor is always going to be subjective and impossible to make perfectly fair.

I judge pork based on taste, tenderness and moisture. Oh, and presentation too...of course.

Still Smokin
07-11-2012, 11:26 AM
From what I can see, 1st place today can take DAL tomorrow.

I did a KCBS comp last year, got 62nd out of 63 (thank god I did not get DAL, cause I said I would quit if I got DAL), next comp was dual sanctioned, 2 separate turn ins, got 2nd in KCBS, 2nd in SBA.

KC_Bobby
07-11-2012, 07:34 PM
Around KC, something has changed (at least for us). 2008-10 pork was a hot category for us, it generally placed/scored very well. Since ... not so much. Appearance and tenderness scores are still generally aways 8/9 but taste has dropped from 8/9 to 7/8s. Even changed recipes without luck.

Scratching my head.

Time to trim chicken for this weekend

jbrink01
07-11-2012, 09:14 PM
Same here Bobby. Seemingly could do no wrong last year. This year i've been (roughly) 30, 20, 2, 2(180), 12, 1, 15, 20
Beats The Fark Outta Me. My flavor profile leans bold which could exaserbate the hit or miss nature of it........

Q-Dat
07-11-2012, 09:20 PM
I have noticed while listening to Greg Rempe's show the last few months that many of his guests are having the very inconsistent scores all over the place.

Perhaps many of the judges are getting sick of the same flavors, while many others may still like it.

carlyle
07-12-2012, 10:28 AM
Interesting thread-
No doubt that there is variation in scoring from judge to judge and contest to contest.
When you review your scores from a contest, is there a lot of inconsistency within the table? Or is there a general consensus?

Something that has not been mentioned yet - there are no 2 pork butts that are the same. Even though your recipe may be the same and cooking technique the same,
isn't it just possible that part of the variability in scores from contest to contest has something to do with variations in how the pork turns out?

Why lay 100% of the blame at the feet of the judges?
Just a thought.

Bourbon Barrel BBQ
07-12-2012, 01:19 PM
Interesting thread-
No doubt that there is variation in scoring from judge to judge and contest to contest.
When you review your scores from a contest, is there a lot of inconsistency within the table? Or is there a general consensus?

Something that has not been mentioned yet - there are no 2 pork butts that are the same. Even though your recipe may be the same and cooking technique the same,
isn't it just possible that part of the variability in scores from contest to contest has something to do with variations in how the pork turns out?

Why lay 100% of the blame at the feet of the judges?
Just a thought.

I don't blame the judges for all of it. I think the newest of newbies can cook a decent pork butt. If a new team is going to score a call in their first comp chances are it will be in pork. I dont think there is an archetype of pork like their is for the other categories. I think combination of those two things make it difficult to win CONSISTENTLY.

carlyle
07-13-2012, 08:57 AM
Well said Bourbon Barrel.

Agree that KCBS can do a better job in setting a pork standard, teaching it to judges
and giving teams a clearer target to shoot for.

Rest in pork
07-14-2012, 07:40 AM
WE scored 999 from 2 judges and had 2 others score us 666 and 667. i wish if they score that low. that they would leave a comment on what is wrong.

Q-Dat
07-14-2012, 10:04 AM
WE scored 999 from 2 judges and had 2 others score us 666 and 667. i wish if they score that low. that they would leave a comment on what is wrong.

Now thats weird.

By any chance is your pork particularly spicy? That could explain some loving it, and others not. I guess sauced vs unsauced could do it too.

Boshizzle
07-14-2012, 07:44 PM
I have a novel theory on pork BBQ and kcbs judges. My theory is that good pork BBQ gets good scores and bad pork BBQ gets bad scores. It's really that simple.

There are so many things that can be different from one piece of pork to another in a box that can explain why one judge gives an exceptional score and another gives a mediocre score.