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bogyo1981
07-08-2012, 09:24 PM
This is my chicken box from this weekend at the Sam's event in Southgate. A few weeks ago I took I posted a box and took peoples advice and tried to fix the problems. Like before any and all critiques would be useful.

Bentley
07-08-2012, 09:49 PM
An 8, I try hard not to judge anything but the meat, as I was admonished on another site for allowing my mind to be swayed by garnish.

Would like to give it a 9, but the Voodoo bones in the box make it tough...

Twelvegaugepump
07-08-2012, 09:56 PM
An eight from the picture, possibly a 9 in person with a little shininess to make my mouth water. How did they score?

Pelkster
07-08-2012, 10:02 PM
I give it a solid 8. The overall presentation is very nice. The part that got me was the sauce on the bones.

nthole
07-08-2012, 10:04 PM
Sauce on the bones for me as well. Like the idea though. 8

Bentley
07-08-2012, 10:25 PM
Ohh, and I guess this will just show I am biased the other way, but who cares...Thanks for "thinking outside the box"...assuming your meat does not blow...there were/going to be some lucky judges recently/in the future!

Hallelujah and thank you...maybe the Evil Reign of the Thigh is coming to an end!

I give you my word as a Judge, I will work on my bone bias...

CivilWarBBQ
07-08-2012, 11:22 PM
Interesting meatpops.

I've never been presented with a box like this at the judging table, so rather than score it, I'll give you the first impressions that went through my mind.

"Wow, that's different"
"Those bones look really dry"
"Meat looks good though. I wonder how I should score this? Since the bones are just being used as handles, should the fact that they don't look that good affect my score?"

Still not sure in my own head how I would score this box. More importantly, if I'm confused it probably means other judges may be too. Definitely an interesting box to ponder on!

I wonder if some vegetable oil applied to the bones would make them look better and boost scores?

BRBBQ
07-09-2012, 01:41 AM
An 8, I try hard not to judge anything but the meat, as I was admonished on another site for allowing my mind to be swayed by garnish.

Would like to give it a 9, but the Voodoo bones in the box make it tough...
I'm with you on the bones but maybe a 7 for me

cmohr74
07-09-2012, 07:02 AM
I would have to say that for me the color of the meat looks a little dark. I personally think the bones look great. Maybe its just me, but would you want a clean dry bone to pick up the lollipop with or a black, burnt bone. It's a huge improvement over your St. Charles box you posted a few weeks ago. The bones look much cleaner and more natural. I would give it an 8. Keep it up the improvements.

Bbq Bubba
07-09-2012, 07:48 AM
Bones look dry?

Sauce on the bones??

Did anybody notice the meat???

9 all day.

Balls Casten
07-09-2012, 08:57 AM
agreed a big improvment over the last box and I hope they scored well.

as to a critique ... I wonder what it would look like with the meat in the center and bones outward or stacked/over lapped. ??? If you ask the question does it make me want to dig in and eat, Im first drawn to look at the bones. There is room for more wow factor, better glaze??

Ron_L
07-09-2012, 09:03 AM
Would like to give it a 9, but the Voodoo bones in the box make it tough...

Voodoo bones?


"Those bones look really dry"


Can bones look moist?

Lake Dogs
07-09-2012, 09:19 AM
A side question, to chicken. As judges are supposed to sample/eat what is presented, skin & all, what about bones? Shouldn't they be sampled/eaten?

Otherwise, I like the entry. The meat itself looks natural with a natural shine. Nice mahogany/reddish BBQ color to it. 8 at very least if not 9 in appearance.

YankeeBBQ
07-09-2012, 09:26 AM
I think the meat looks great but those white bones somehow bother me. Maybe at some point if you unwrapped the bones and browned them a little it would be more appealing. Maybe it's just me.

Warthog
07-09-2012, 09:26 AM
I would give that box a solid 8. In person I might just give it a 9. Nice change of pace from the standard cupcake thighs. As for the complaints about the bones I don't get it. Your not eating the bones. Real good job.

YankeeBBQ
07-09-2012, 09:29 AM
A side question, to chicken. As judges are supposed to sample/eat what is presented, skin & all, what about bones? Shouldn't they be sampled/eaten?



That's not a serious question is it ? Do you expect judges to eat your rib bones ?:confused:

DawgPhan
07-09-2012, 09:29 AM
the meat just looks like weird lumps of meh. Again, I am not thinking, oh let me get a piece of that. To me, the eye first goes to those bones and I dont like eating bones.

hide the bones.

rib runners
07-09-2012, 09:32 AM
I think the appearance would improve if you snip the knuckle off the ends of your leg bones before cooking. And you might get a couple more pieces in the box.
Great looking color on the meat.

Ron Yater

EatonHoggBBQ
07-09-2012, 09:32 AM
I would give them a 9. They're different, they're interesting, and I want to taste them. Sauce on the bones don't matter to me. It's Barbeque, not an art project.

I was a table captain at the Southgate Sam's contest and I wish these would have hit my table. Can't believe these scored the way they did at the contest.

Ron_L
07-09-2012, 09:33 AM
Not picking on anyone, but could this discussion of bones be why so many cooks turn in thighs? Doing anything else seems to just bring up new objections.

boogiesnap
07-09-2012, 09:50 AM
what's funny is the bones were dark in the first box. they got hammered. now the bones are light and.....

Balls Casten
07-09-2012, 09:53 AM
absolutly Ron, we get criticized for the ends of the bones on our thighs.

does this layout make you focus more on the meat?

cmohr74
07-09-2012, 10:50 AM
Not picking on anyone, but could this discussion of bones be why so many cooks turn in thighs? Doing anything else seems to just bring up new objections.

This couldn't be futher from my thoughts. I did this at my past contest, thought I absolutely nailed it. The color was great, the chicken had fantastic flavor, bite-thru skin, and it was the best I had ever made. I wanted to go with something other than thighs. Took 20th out of 30. Went back to the thighs at the next contest...same color, same flavor, same everything but cut and took 2nd out of 26. How can it be so different from one cut to another if everything other than cut is the same?

Rich Parker
07-09-2012, 11:27 AM
This is my chicken box from this weekend at the Sam's event in Southgate. A few weeks ago I took I posted a box and took peoples advice and tried to fix the problems. Like before any and all critiques would be useful.

It was nice meeting you this weekend! I would say probably an 8 maybe 9 in person.

nthole
07-09-2012, 03:11 PM
That arrangement definitely puts the meat together, allowing the eye to draw to it and not be scanning over the bones.

It's interesting, just the argument here on the board of, I like it, Don't like it, hey don't look at it, etc should tell you that you WILL get that same variance at a judging table. Whether the folks that like the look want to agree to it or not, and it only takes 2 judges who don't like it to tank it (1 gets dropped, the other kills you). I wonder if the idea of a little rub on the bone of oil and a few minutes on the smoker might give the bones a consistent color. Although, in this layout, I think they stand out a LOT less.

landarc
07-09-2012, 03:18 PM
I think I would love to grab one of those bones in the OP, to me that means a high score. The bones are a part of the chicken, not off putting at all.

big brother smoke
07-09-2012, 05:45 PM
I am going to give a 9 on what is presented. Thinking outside the box is great in some walks of life, just not comps, imho. You can do top 5 one contest and bottom 5 the next contest with the same product when thinking outside the box. Been there, done that with skinless thighs. :wink:

CivilWarBBQ
07-10-2012, 10:28 PM
If I were using this box, the question I would ask myself would be:

"Is Frenching these drumsticks helping or hurting me with the judges?"

Given that even a couple people had comments about the bare bones, what advantage to you believe that peeling them is giving you? This is not a rhetorical question, I'm really curious as to your motive for the treatment.

Q-Dat
07-10-2012, 10:38 PM
If I were using this box, the question I would ask myself would be:

"Is Frenching these drumsticks helping or hurting me with the judges?"

Given that even a couple people had comments about the bare bones, what advantage to you believe that peeling them is giving you? This is not a rhetorical question, I'm really curious as to your motive for the treatment.

The way I understand it is that this way you can remove all of the tendons in the drumstick. Also it appears that its easier to get six uniform looking legs than it is with thighs.

cmohr74
07-11-2012, 06:42 AM
The way I understand it is that this way you can remove all of the tendons in the drumstick. Also it appears that its easier to get six uniform looking legs than it is with thighs.

I completely agree with Q-Dat. I came across this photo on the internet. I wish I could quote the source, but I don't remember. The reason for frenching it is to pull out the tendons that will not render down. IMHO, just like with thighs, you remove what you don't want the judge to bite into and leave a bad taste in their mouth. Now that the tendons are removed, you want it to look pretty and uniform...much like the thighs. I have done both ways, but I honestly feel that anyone can cook a thigh because of it forgiveness in temp range. Ok, maybe an overstatment, I have messed them up before. But getting the perfect drum without the tendons, with bite-thru skin, in the small window between mosit and dry takes more skill and patience and I think it goes unappreciated more often than not. There is a lot of time involved in prep and attention to detail. Rack of lamb, do you want to impress someone with Frenching it or just unwrap it, cook it, and serve it with little to no prep?

67494

bigabyte
07-11-2012, 09:47 AM
An 8 from me as well, and would have been a 9 with more consistent saucing...either none on the bones, or all of the bones.

Shady
07-11-2012, 10:12 AM
I also would go with an 8, the sauce on the bones is not even, details matter and in my opinion these are the things that get you scored down.

Still Smokin
07-11-2012, 10:22 AM
I have frenched legs twice for a comp, but both times, I did thighs as well and fit 6 of each in the box, very tight, but I scored well in both, 3rd out of 34 in one, 16th out 63 in the other.

bogyo1981
07-11-2012, 11:40 AM
Thank you for everyone who took time out to give there critiques. The reason their is sauce on the bones is because we dipped the meat into the sauce and the highest point of the meat was were the sauce ended on the bone. We tried to wipe it off but it just ended up smearing and it stained the bone. The reason I do chicken this way is I personally hate thighs, and isn't a judge supposed to judge whats in the box and not what they think should be in the box? If a judge marks down because it isn't thighs isn't he doing his job wrong? The funny thing to me is that these were DAL at the competition but with a score of 154. I normally use a homemade brine with chicken but I went with Kosmos chicken soak and to me it left the meat to be tough on the outside. These are the scores 887 665 988 778 978 888. I'm going to keep on doing chicken this way and I know I can get my taste and tenderness scores up. And thank you Balls Casten I really like the layout you did.

Bigmista
07-11-2012, 11:47 AM
I would have to say that for me the color of the meat looks a little dark.

Really? You think this chicken looks dark? I thought it was a beautiful color. What color do you think cooked chicken should be?

Bigmista
07-11-2012, 11:49 AM
A side question, to chicken. As judges are supposed to sample/eat what is presented, skin & all, what about bones? Shouldn't they be sampled/eaten?

Only if they are going to eat the rib bones too.

mobow
07-11-2012, 12:33 PM
Looks much better than the last ones but I am still having a hard time jumping to it being something appealing to me. I would go 9 for originality but a 5 on appetizing and end up with a 7 for your score. Good luck as you work on trying to perfect it. I'll keep rooting for you. The unwritten norms of BBQ competition only change when competitors like you keep throwing out new things to see and taste. keith

Wampus
07-11-2012, 01:03 PM
In contrast, how does this stack up? (Not a hijack....just offering contrasting looks here) Bones had some smoke on them to make em not so white. The white may be what's jumping out at people and distracting from the meat? (excuse the farkin shadow in the photo)
67525

Pelkster
07-11-2012, 01:22 PM
The color of the chicken is great, and the color of the bones is a lot better, but visually, all of the bones clumbed together is not appealing because they are right in the center of the box, and that is where my eyes naturally go. Maybe you could dress it with a parsley bouquet to hide the ends a bit?

cmohr74
07-11-2012, 01:48 PM
Here is one of the turn-ins that I did earlier this year. This is very similar to Bogyo's. Same thing, not trying to hijack, but any feedback is good feedback.

67526

DaveMW
07-11-2012, 02:26 PM
To me the idea has already been brought up but it is like any design; where are your eyes drawn to? To the center, with the bones in the center of the box that ends up to be the focus imho. I say meat to the middle and bones outward for a more appealing visual. As far as the meat itself goes, I would love to bite in to that chicken, it looks awesome.

Big Mike
08-04-2012, 08:56 PM
Thank you for everyone who took time out to give there critiques. The reason their is sauce on the bones is because we dipped the meat into the sauce and the highest point of the meat was were the sauce ended on the bone. We tried to wipe it off but it just ended up smearing and it stained the bone. The reason I do chicken this way is I personally hate thighs, and isn't a judge supposed to judge whats in the box and not what they think should be in the box? If a judge marks down because it isn't thighs isn't he doing his job wrong? The funny thing to me is that these were DAL at the competition but with a score of 154. I normally use a homemade brine with chicken but I went with Kosmos chicken soak and to me it left the meat to be tough on the outside. These are the scores 887 665 988 778 978 888. I'm going to keep on doing chicken this way and I know I can get my taste and tenderness scores up. And thank you Balls Casten I really like the layout you did.

If you can stain the entire bone, I think it would look better. Maybe stain the bone and then dip the meat, that way you aren't trying to wipe the whole bone after you dip the meat

Pappy Q
08-05-2012, 06:53 AM
These very well may be the next big thing in chicken trends but I just don't get the "lollipop" presentation. Why can't thighs look thighs (ie: cupcakes) and legs look like legs?

Just my worthless opinion...

indianagriller
08-05-2012, 07:34 AM
Pappy, I agree... and our thighs that we turn in look... well like thighs and mostly because i hate trimming chicken... and so far we havent been dissapointed.:biggrin1: