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twinsfan
07-08-2012, 03:32 PM
What is the obsession with using skin-on thighs and spending all this time trying to get bite through skin? I've scanned and scanned online and can't find anywhere on the KCBS site which indicates thighs should have skin on, or any point deductions if they don't.

Anyone had success with skinless thighs?

Thanks

Brauma
07-08-2012, 03:36 PM
Nope.

You can cook any part of the chicken you like, but bone-in, skin-on is what wins. Most of the time. Not saying you can't win with wings or drums or boneless skinless. But the odds are on regular thighs.

lcbateman3
07-08-2012, 03:46 PM
I tried them once..............

Won't do it again.

Butt Rubb'n BBQ
07-08-2012, 05:25 PM
For some reason judges don't like people who think outside the box. The main problem with comps is that at turn in everyone thinks there is only one right way to do things. It would be great to see different items wining.

bam
07-08-2012, 05:54 PM
Looks better skin on.

parrdist
07-08-2012, 06:00 PM
"I HATE CHICKEN" At my last contest I screwed up my chicken had to turn in skinless thighs. Finished second. So who knows, all I do know is at the next contest I'm going to try skinless again, less stress trying to get skin perfect.

Podge
07-08-2012, 06:03 PM
Nothing in the KCBS rules says you got to do what it takes to win, but we all know we need to.. so, bone-in, skin on thighs for me.

bmanMA
07-08-2012, 07:05 PM
"I HATE CHICKEN" At my last contest I screwed up my chicken had to turn in skinless thighs. Finished second. So who knows, all I do know is at the next contest I'm going to try skinless again, less stress trying to get skin perfect.

Similar story here. Minus the great finish :mmph:

Q-Dat
07-08-2012, 07:43 PM
Unfortunately, it seems that you must account for judges that are looking for something not to like about your entry. Many judges also like to make assumptions about your cooking process, such as "must not be very good at cooking with the skin on" and then score down for it.

Its very wrong, but theres alot of them out there, and they aren't going away.

twinsfan
07-08-2012, 08:12 PM
Alright. Thanks. I want to start doing something different in chicken so maybe I'll try a different kind of sauce or rub. Thanks.

GreenDrake
07-08-2012, 09:39 PM
I feel pretty good about my chicken and usually finish in the top three with it. I think the thing that got me over the hump was the motivation of other people hating it so much. I just spent time with it, doing about two eight packs a week for a few months until I knew it was dead on perfect every time. Trimming out, scraping and hacking knuckles becomes second nature after that much practice. The thing I love about chicken is the method is dead on accurate for time and temp, every time, same results. I kind of dig that, especially after the trainwreck my pork went through last comp with a dual stall late finish debacle. Guess I am practicing pork all summer. LOL.

Here's my turn in from last weekend, yes I rearranged the chicken after taking this shot and before turn in. Took 2nd place with this one.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v462/motorcade1/2012%20BBQ/jackasschicken.jpg

GreenDrake
07-08-2012, 09:44 PM
BTW, off topic but if you ask about a parsley box, parsley is the new chicken to me. I tried, I really tried to do the putting green thing. After about a half hour attempting to put it together at the comp, everyone in the pits heard me proclaim a rather pronounced F Parsley statement, I then took it out into the main area, threw it on the ground and stomped on it. When I got home I designed a T-Shirt and ordered it for the comp this coming weekend. I will be wearing it during night prep. Not really something I would wear when families are walking through the pits.

Bentley
07-08-2012, 10:16 PM
For some reason judges don't like people who think outside the box. The main problem with comps is that at turn in everyone thinks there is only one right way to do things. It would be great to see different items wining.

As a judge I would have to disagree. As someone who has judged for 10 years, do you really think I want to see those 6 boxes of chicken roll up to the table, knowing everyone is basiclly a clone of the next? Look at the drumsticks in a thread a few doors over, I could not muster a 9 with just a photo, maybe in person. I gave it an 8, maybe in time I will beable to look past the exposed bone and give a 9...I would be lying if I said it did not influence my score...I guess if I am the dreaded judge 6, so be it!

I think teams, and I include myself in this, are to scared to try it on a regular basis in competitions. They try it once dont get the results they "think" they should have and they shy away from ever doing it again. Do they go and change the thigh recipe each time when they get those same results?

If teams are not willing to take the chance, we the judges dont get a chance to show that we are not All bias and expect the same thing, time, after time, after time...

Red Valley BBQ
07-08-2012, 10:24 PM
For some reason judges don't like people who think outside the box. The main problem with comps is that at turn in everyone thinks there is only one right way to do things. It would be great to see different items wining.

I would have to disagree as well. I have had success with boneless thighs and breast meat in the box. Thinking outside the box is not a bad thing, as long as you don't go overboard.

http://i790.photobucket.com/albums/yy186/redvalleybbq/DSC_4777.jpg

Q-Dat
07-08-2012, 10:30 PM
As a judge I would have to disagree. As someone who has judged for 10 years, do you really think I want to see those 6 boxes of chicken roll up to the table, knwing everyone is basiclly a clone of the next? Look at the drumsticks in a thread a few doors over, I could not muster a 9 with just a photo, maybe in person. I gave it an 8, maybe in time I will beable to look past the exposed bone and give a 9...I would be lying if I said it did not influence my score...I guess if I am the dreaded judge 6, so be it!

I think teams, and I include myself in this, are to scared to try it on a regular basis in competitions. They try it once dont get the results they "think" they should have and they shy away from ever doing it again. Do they go and change the thigh recipe each time when they get those same results?

If teams are not willing to take the chance, we the judges dont get a chance to show that we are not All bias and expect the same thing, time, after time, after time...

I agree with you, but with all the money spent in a comp, there is alot riding on a roll of the dice.

I'm not a points chaser. For now I only get a small handful of opportunities in a year, so I have to make the most of them. For me that means turning in the safest entry, when I would probably rather try something different.

Bentley
07-08-2012, 10:39 PM
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/lwnna/Pelletheads/IMG_0001-21.jpg



I agree with you, but with all the money spent in a comp, there is alot riding on a roll of the dice.

Yep, and I rolled em at the last competition and turned this in...Top ten...Keep widening that box girls & boys!

Pretty sure the way I cook thighs, if I had turned them in they would have been bottom 10 in scoring, so the judges are at least opening there eyes!

early mornin' smokin'
07-09-2012, 08:40 AM
only time i've ever placed or won has been with drumsticks

daveinwestmont
07-09-2012, 11:08 PM
I cooked Arthur, Il last fall. Third time I had ever cooked a comp. Tried a new chicken source and my skins shrunk to postage stamps. In a rash decision I pulled the skins, basted the meat and handed it in. Took first place against some tough competitor's. Dumb luck - who knows. Tried it again at Westmont, Il this Memorial day and was slammed 49 out of 66.. Who knows what works.

Bunny
07-10-2012, 08:10 AM
I hate chicken, too. It's our biggest downfall in the competition. I think it's because I don't care for thighs. The only person who ever made good ones was my sister in law and they are great boneless thighs. At Sam's in Lenexa we did 7th in Brisket, 9th in pork (or visa versa) 11th in ribs and 28th in chicken.

I also can't stand to scrape the skin. I honestly have to walk away several times while in the process just to get a breather. They are disgusting. There's gotta be a better way. I'd love to perfect the breast.

KCass BBQ

Outnumbered
07-10-2012, 08:16 AM
I would have to disagree as well. I have had success with boneless thighs and breast meat in the box. Thinking outside the box is not a bad thing, as long as you don't go overboard.

http://i790.photobucket.com/albums/yy186/redvalleybbq/DSC_4777.jpg

Red Valley, what kind of success? I'm glad to see you tried this. I was brainstorming the other day thought this might be a good idea, too. Not all judges like dark meat, so give them a choice.

p.s. I really like the looks of it.

Outnumbered
07-10-2012, 08:34 AM
Bunny, you might be a great one to answer this, but what constitutes "deep-frying"? If you put the chicken in a cast iron skillet to crisp the skin with a small amount of oil, would that be legal as long as the heat source is the grill? I saw Southern Krunks do that on Pitmasters. I realize that is not KCBS rules or sanctioned, but it got me to wondering.

boogiesnap
07-10-2012, 09:07 AM
Bunny, you might be a great one to answer this, but what constitutes "deep-frying"? If you put the chicken in a cast iron skillet to crisp the skin with a small amount of oil, would that be legal as long as the heat source is the grill? I saw Southern Krunks do that on Pitmasters. I realize that is not KCBS rules or sanctioned, but it got me to wondering.

legal. i believe deep frying would be fully submerged.

hamiltont
07-10-2012, 10:40 AM
I'm a fairly new judge. At this point I'm sticking to the practice of focusing on the meat, not the garnish, and with no preconceived notions of what it should or shouldn't be. We all owe that to the teams! If I were presented a box of skinless thighs, the fact that there was no skin would not effect my score. That's how I make them for family & friends and they're awesome that way!!!

Cheers!!!

ModelMaker
07-10-2012, 10:52 AM
Bunny, you might be a great one to answer this, but what constitutes "deep-frying"? If you put the chicken in a cast iron skillet to crisp the skin with a small amount of oil, would that be legal as long as the heat source is the grill? I saw Southern Krunks do that on Pitmasters. I realize that is not KCBS rules or sanctioned, but it got me to wondering.



As I see it:


Rules per KCBS website (if your a KCBS member you can (and should) read the rules there).


6) Fires shall be of wood, wood pellets or charcoal. Gas
and electric heat sources shall not be permitted for cooking
or holding. Propane or electric is permitted as fire starters,
provided that the competition meat is not in/on the cooking
device. Electrical accessories such as spits, augers, forced draft
are permitted. No open pits or holes are permitted, except at
the election of the contest organizer. Fires shall not be built
on the ground.



Parboiling, deep-frying and
sous-vide cooking competition
meat is not allowed.


Deep frying means covered in oil, pan frying is oil that does not cover the meat.

Just a word of caution if your chicken looks fried you would be wise to have the rep over to your site and explain your process waaay before turn ins.

Ed

smoke-n-my-i's
07-10-2012, 05:49 PM
Ok, I too hate chicken.... to cook at least. My chicken has NEVER done good.... usually in the bottom 1/3 of the pool.

So, at my last comp., I went way outside the box.... went out on the limb so to speak.... I did boneless skinless thighs.... they were overdone and hard to keep together or I believe I would have been better than the 11th place they did get.... you tell me what you think.....

boogiesnap
07-10-2012, 06:25 PM
I'm a fairly new judge. At this point I'm sticking to the practice of focusing on the meat, not the garnish, and with no preconceived notions of what it should or shouldn't be. We all owe that to the teams! If I were presented a box of skinless thighs, the fact that there was no skin would not effect my score. That's how I make them for family & friends and they're awesome that way!!!

Cheers!!!

agreed it wouldn't effect score just because there was no skin, but might it after you tasted?

boogiesnap
07-10-2012, 06:30 PM
Ok, I too hate chicken.... to cook at least. My chicken has NEVER done good.... usually in the bottom 1/3 of the pool.

So, at my last comp., I went way outside the box.... went out on the limb so to speak.... I did boneless skinless thighs.... they were overdone and hard to keep together or I believe I would have been better than the 11th place they did get.... you tell me what you think.....

thats gotta be one damn good sauce, :becky:

care to share? :biggrin1:

Red Valley BBQ
07-10-2012, 08:35 PM
Red Valley, what kind of success? I'm glad to see you tried this. I was brainstorming the other day thought this might be a good idea, too. Not all judges like dark meat, so give them a choice.

p.s. I really like the looks of it.

If my memory is correct, I believe that box finished 3rd. Also had a 4th, 6th, and a 7th. Of course I had a few comps where adding the breast wasn't received well.

Bourbon Barrel BBQ
07-10-2012, 08:38 PM
Ok, I too hate chicken.... to cook at least. My chicken has NEVER done good.... usually in the bottom 1/3 of the pool.

So, at my last comp., I went way outside the box.... went out on the limb so to speak.... I did boneless skinless thighs.... they were overdone and hard to keep together or I believe I would have been better than the 11th place they did get.... you tell me what you think.....

They seem over sauced to me but that may or may not be true when the taste portion happens.

smokaholic
07-10-2012, 09:25 PM
those must be tiny pieces of chicken to fit a breast down the middle.

Bunny
07-10-2012, 11:13 PM
Bunny, you might be a great one to answer this, but what constitutes "deep-frying"? If you put the chicken in a cast iron skillet to crisp the skin with a small amount of oil, would that be legal as long as the heat source is the grill? I saw Southern Krunks do that on Pitmasters. I realize that is not KCBS rules or sanctioned, but it got me to wondering.

OK. Many years ago I tried exactly what you described. The problem was that my grease was so hot over the Weber fire that my chicken skin shriveled up to an inch in length. LOL It was NOT deep frying as there was only a quarter inch of oil in the cast iron skillet over the fire. I was only trying to perfect the skin. I wasn't trying to fry the chicken...just the skin. Needless to say, (no pun intended), I cast the skillet aside and never tried it again. Others have said they've also tried it but have failed. To deep fry is exactly that...dunking the whole piece of chicken below oil to fry.

Let me know if you can perfect that.

Outnumbered
07-11-2012, 10:29 AM
We may try it this weekend in Weston. We'll keep the old way too, but WTH. We'll try it.

bigabyte
07-11-2012, 10:52 AM
Unfortunately, it seems that you must account for judges that are looking for something not to like about your entry. Many judges also like to make assumptions about your cooking process, such as "must not be very good at cooking with the skin on" and then score down for it.

Its very wrong, but theres alot of them out there, and they aren't going away.
This. If you are lucky will will get all CBJ's who judge fairly, but never assume that is the case. Heck...even CBJ's sometimes score in a way that in hindsight seems like a mistake. They are human, not robots.

BBQBeaver
07-11-2012, 12:43 PM
BTW, off topic but if you ask about a parsley box, parsley is the new chicken to me. I tried, I really tried to do the putting green thing. After about a half hour attempting to put it together at the comp, everyone in the pits heard me proclaim a rather pronounced F Parsley statement, I then took it out into the main area, threw it on the ground and stomped on it. When I got home I designed a T-Shirt and ordered it for the comp this coming weekend. I will be wearing it during night prep. Not really something I would wear when families are walking through the pits.


Farkin Hilarious!

Bunny
07-11-2012, 06:52 PM
We may try it this weekend in Weston. We'll keep the old way too, but WTH. We'll try it.

Make sure you have your reps approve it before you do it. Let them know what you are doing. The reps are Lynda Showalter and Larry Hadley. Tell them you are not deep frying, but trying to sear the skin. AND I want to know your results on the chicken!! Good luck.

Red Valley BBQ
07-11-2012, 08:32 PM
those must be tiny pieces of chicken to fit a breast down the middle.

Yes, yes they were.

twinsfan
07-11-2012, 08:44 PM
Alright, I did my last run on chicken before this weekend, the skin is still not where I like it, so I will go with skinless chicken thighs. I'm thinking I can penetrate tons of flavor into the thigh without that pesky skin in the way.

I either get bite through, even a little crispy chicken, and char and shrivel up the skin, or have pretty looking rubber skin. :twisted:

We will see and I will take pics.

sincitydisciple01
07-11-2012, 09:32 PM
I hate doing chicken as well. Although it's getting better, it's been our weakest entry for some time. We did Sam's in Lenaxa as well. We were totally outclassed and outgunned! Got our brains beaten in! Last place in ribs, pork and brisket. Low and behold... 22nd in chicken. Go figure!

Bentley
07-11-2012, 10:00 PM
I went way outside the box.... went out on the limb so to speak.... I did boneless skinless thighs....you tell me what you think.....


More sauce and they will be perfect...