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Chick'n Pig BBQ
09-27-2005, 12:28 PM
My true feelings after being a BBQ Judge!!

After Judging a contest this past weekend I came to the conclusion that the table you get does matter, but not as much as I had originally thought. It is still up to us to turn in warm good Q.
It is possible to get 1 bad Judge at a table but 2 or 3 not as likely but still possible. The low score gets deleted, so hopefully the bad Judge is not an issue.

I was surprised and a little disappointed with the turn ins that my table received. Presentations were really pretty good it was easy to see the ones that took the time to make it look good, mostly 8s and 9s but a few took no care at all 5s and 6s.

Taste was another matter for me I love all kinds of BBQ and can appreciate different taste and styles but lets face it bad is bad.
Some of the Q I tasted was bitter and over spiced (not hot) but to much other junk.
Over spraying with old or rotten bad tasting apple juice made some of the Q taste bitter and bad. Spraying makes the turn in look good but I thought it changed the outside taste on some.
I could also taste in some, the bitterness of smoke on the outside of the sauced meat (smoking the meat after it had been sauced the meat was real good but the outside tasted bad).
It was easy to pick out the best BBQ it just tasted good.

Tenderness was pretty good overall.8s and 9s with a couple of 6s and one 3 on a rib,that was still raw inside, no one at the table could eat it!! the out side looked great????.

I have made most of these mistakes in contest (except for turning in raw meat) and I still have a lot to learn. After Judging it has helped me to somewhat understand what is going through the judges mind. Turning in warm,(not cold) good Q at a contest is hard to do, there are many things that can and do go wrong. But blaming the judges or table for the low score you get??? I am not so sure of anymore??????????????

MoKanMeathead
09-27-2005, 01:09 PM
Skip - it was great to meet you at Hermann. I think judging would help every team and cooking would help every judge.

Did you judge this?

Chick'n Pig BBQ
09-27-2005, 01:16 PM
Wayne,It was nice to meet you also,
Yes I do agree.
Nope I did not get to judge this one. But thanks for making me hungry!!!!.

icemn62
09-27-2005, 01:18 PM
I did not judge it, but think it looks great, box it up and send it to me for sampling in my lab, we should be able to get back to you in a few days. 8)

Arlin_MacRae
09-27-2005, 01:35 PM
I did not judge it, but think it looks great, box it up and send it to me for sampling in my lab, we should be able to get back to you in a few days. 8)

You are MUCH too far away, Ice. Send it down here to Oklahoma and I'll have it tested and results back in a day! :razz:

rbinms33
09-27-2005, 01:47 PM
Wayne.....turning in those big chunks like that is the way to go IMO. If you pull it apart into smaller chunks or "strands", it dries out and cools off a heckuva lot quicker. One question though.....did you take the contents of that box from two different shoulders/butts? One for the chunks and one for the pulled stuff? Or is it all from one piece of meat?

wsm
09-27-2005, 02:11 PM
I did taste that pork - Mmm Mmm good!

Thanks for letting me get in your way at Hermann

MoKanMeathead
09-27-2005, 03:26 PM
Wayne.....turning in those big chunks like that is the way to go IMO. If you pull it apart into smaller chunks or "strands", it dries out and cools off a heckuva lot quicker. One question though.....did you take the contents of that box from two different shoulders/butts? One for the chunks and one for the pulled stuff? Or is it all from one piece of meat?

Actually what's in the box is from three different butts. The slices came from one the chunks from another and underneath the slices and chuncks is some pulled from yet another. The butt for slicing wasn't cooked to the same temp as the other two - or at least it wasn't suposed to be. One mistake I made (and I am sure there were many) was to prepare it too early - it had to sit a while before I could turn it in.

BrooklynQ
09-27-2005, 03:28 PM
When I judged, I found that if someone turned in chunks or shreads and slices in the same box, one of them was lousy. If the chunks were good -- the slices were bad. or vice versa. Just remember to only submit the best.

Jeff_in_KC
09-27-2005, 03:41 PM
I like the idea of chunks but isn't it more difficult to make them look "pretty"? Wayne, those look farkin' awesome with all that bark but seeing as how they are not uniform in size/shape like the painstaking efforts to make ribs, brisket slices and thighs look alike, are you concerned with lowering your appearance score with something like that? Just curious. I'm not judging because I don't have a clue.

Chick'n Pig BBQ
09-27-2005, 03:46 PM
As a Judge what experiences did you all have.??? or what mistakes did you notice the most?

Chick'n Pig BBQ
09-27-2005, 03:56 PM
I like the idea of chunks but isn't it more difficult to make them look "pretty"? Wayne, those look farkin' awesome with all that bark but seeing as how they are not uniform in size/shape like the painstaking efforts to make ribs, brisket slices and thighs look alike, are you concerned with lowering your appearance score with something like that? Just curious. I'm not judging because I don't have a clue.

I wonder if sometimes to much time is spent on making the boxes look good that we forget about keeping the meat warm and end up changing the overall taste with out knowing it. Presentation matters the least but it can make the difference right????

Jeff_in_KC
09-27-2005, 04:07 PM
Based on Rod's explanation in another thread, yes it makes a difference but it is weighed least.

wsm
09-27-2005, 04:16 PM
Based on Rod's explanation in another thread, yes it makes a difference but it is weighed least.

by hundredths of a point, the little bit that appearance counts may make all the difference!

MoKanMeathead
09-27-2005, 04:55 PM
I definately agree that taste and tenderness are the most important. You have to have excellent taste and tenderness or you will not win. However appearence can be and is important and after the meat is cooked is the one thing that every team has complete control over.

Sorry - hijacked thread mod....back to KCBS Judging...

rbinms33
09-27-2005, 06:42 PM
As a Judge what experiences did you all have.??? or what mistakes did you notice the most?

Skip.....this was my first experience as a judge.

http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13453

The absolute worse mistake was the rib turn in that looked like it was cut apart with a chainsaw and had the grease swilling around in the bottom of the box. Appearance = 5. When I tried to pull it out of the box by the bone, the bone is all I got. Initial indications of being overcooked confirmed when I picked up a piece of the meat and squished it into mush between my tongue and the roof of my mouth. Tenderness = 4 or 5 (can't remember exactly which). While I was tasting this mush, I noticed a very bland taste to them. No sauce was on them at all. Taste = 4 or 5 (can't remember exactly which). I know that boiling ribs is against the rules but that's exactly what they looked and tasted like.

Solidkick
09-27-2005, 07:20 PM
MoKan and WSM.........

For the record, that box was not at my table either. Our table only got to judge two pork entries. One looked great, but had almost a 2.5 inch deep smoke ring and tasted like a tree. The other one looked like crap and tasted remarkably good. I remember making the comment, "if the first one would have had the taste of the second one, we'd have had a winner!"

Ribs was our best table, I gave all 8's and 9's except the one that had been sprayed with what Skip stated earlier, "old apple juice," which got a 7. Skip and I were not at the same table.

spicewine
09-27-2005, 08:32 PM
I would never have the kahones' (sp) to send anything up without garnish---but--- The story behind my chicken--- Had box pre-prepaired, looking good, pulled the chicken and sliced it for presentation. The juice was flowing out and the taste was Fantastic. My problem at the time was that the box was not co-operating with me. I am a man of very little patience and hense did not feel that the presentation was my best effort. I did feel however that the taste and tenderness would carry me over. I was very happy with my chicken until I did my turn in and came back to camp Q and tasted one of the pieces of chicken that I had culled from my turn in choices. The skin had toughened up and the meat had dried out. I knew right then that the same fate had probably befallen my turn in. Moral of story 17th place. Go figure

Next year I will be doing only Pork Butt-- The catagory that over the past years, I have scored the highest in.

Look out Kick and Chicky----I'm commin' after you!!!

kcpellethead
09-27-2005, 09:54 PM
Skip,

Could that "bad apple juice" taste have been bourbon mixed with apple juice? In my opinion, that's one of the mistakes the "once a year" cooks make. They think that spraying liquor on the entry makes it taste good. Save the whiskey for drinking . . .

BrooklynQ
09-27-2005, 09:56 PM
Here's a thread from when I judged in CT.


http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9079&highlight=inside+judges+tent

Chick'n Pig BBQ
09-28-2005, 08:05 AM
Skip,

Could that "bad apple juice" taste have been bourbon mixed with apple juice? In my opinion, that's one of the mistakes the "once a year" cooks make. They think that spraying liquor on the entry makes it taste good. Save the whiskey for drinking . . .

Rod, I am not 100% sure?. It tasted like old spoiled apple juice! What is the life of apple juice after it has been opened?. I am sure outside temps make a difference also. I bet the next time I compete I will check my apple juice before and during use.

BBQchef33
09-28-2005, 12:48 PM
i cant believe someon would use OLD applejuice at a comp. I am sure any competitor worth his smoke would open a fresh bottle, and even if its been sitting out all day, its not going to spoil.

I think Rod hit it on the head. I use to use a mixture of apple juice and cheap bourbon in my sprays. sometimes even a touch of pickle juice in the bottle. did it this way for years, and eventually realized that on those days where i didnt use the bourbon, i was missing that bitter/tangy flavor. stopped using bourbon and never looked back. Now its combination of fruit juices. Apple and cherry mostly, but have used peach, pear, pineapple, etc...

keep the whiskey to marinade the chef.

one hint, dont put pineapple juice with pulp in your sprayer. :shock: :-? Especially at 11:30 am, about when your going to start spraying chicken for glazing. Gives your sprayer a case of the dry squirts.

rbinms33
09-28-2005, 01:34 PM
Sprayer Constipation.....gosh you just gotta hate that.

Solidkick
09-28-2005, 05:30 PM
Skip,

Could that "bad apple juice" taste have been bourbon mixed with apple juice? In my opinion, that's one of the mistakes the "once a year" cooks make. They think that spraying liquor on the entry makes it taste good. Save the whiskey for drinking . . .

I'm not Skip, but I'll answer........

I never gave it a thought that it could have had bourbon mixed in it.....but it did have that fermented "Wang" after taste......I'm bettin' you just hit the nail on the head.......

icemn62
09-28-2005, 06:19 PM
. I use to use a mixture of apple juice and cheap bourbon in my sprays. sometimes even a touch of pickle juice in the bottle. did it this way for years, and eventually realized that on those days where i didnt use the bourbon, i was missing that bitter/tangy flavor. stopped using bourbon and never looked back. Now its combination of fruit juices. Apple and cherry mostly, but have used peach, pear, pineapple, etc...


Thanks I keep wondering why my cooks had gotten so much better. I was missing the booze in the spray. Now I use a apple juice and the wife likes my cooks. My son says the meat is not spicy enough for him, but he will say anything to be negative to my cooks, but never leaves meat on his plate.