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Ford
05-31-2012, 06:45 AM
Mods. Posted here as its a discussion on competition judging.

Judge the entry as presented. Well 2 judges totally trashed that concept. Went in with preconceived notions of what they wanted to see in a brisket box and scored down when it wasn't there. Now I think the majority of certified judges in all organizations follow the judge as presented concept but I also think that a minority go in with preconceived notions of what thay want and when they don't get it they score down. This certainly explains those judge 6 scores.

I know it's tv but I'm very disappointed in one judges in particular who should know better.

Please try to keep relies on topic.

Parts_Guy
05-31-2012, 07:37 AM
That was my thoughts exactly. Tuffy and Myron should know better. I give that other guy the benefit of the doubt.

Podge
05-31-2012, 07:40 AM
It's TV, not a KCBS contest.

Ford
05-31-2012, 07:46 AM
It's TV, not a KCBS contest.

You're sure right about that. Not sure all the cooks realized it.

Lake Dogs
05-31-2012, 07:50 AM
... I *HOPE* it's because it's TV with no real rules and only preconceived notions and expectations. Otherwise, yeah, not good. Did they have rules, or was it like it has been in the past with just willy-nilly judging?

SirPorkaLot
05-31-2012, 07:59 AM
I would hope they would have gave us MORE insight into what they were expecting/looking for.

Not because it is in anyway useful in a comp, but because there was some serious BBQ muscle on the judging stand, and any insights are interesting.

Like Podge said, it's TV not KCBS.

Scottie
05-31-2012, 08:03 AM
I can't believe this is even being discussed. Where is tri-tip allowed in KCBS? Its not... Just as this was not a made for KCBS show... IT WAS A MADE FOR TV SHOW!!!!!

I had no complaints on this episode. It would have been nice to see more new faces. Sure there are a few. But there are also a lot of the same. No slam towards anyone in particular. I personally feel Big Poppa should have been on...

I also can't believe how many of them were cutting with the grain!!!!

Fourthwind
05-31-2012, 08:04 AM
Unfortunatly I have seen some of this behavior in the tent before. Can gaurantee a bunch of rookie teams are going to make sure they put their burnt ends in the box. LOL

billm
05-31-2012, 08:08 AM
I thought this didnt premiere until Sunday??

Sledneck
05-31-2012, 08:11 AM
I can't believe this is even being discussed. Where is tri-tip allowed in KCBS? Its not... Just as this was not a made for KCBS show... IT WAS A MADE FOR TV SHOW!!!!!

I had no complaints on this episode. It would have been nice to see more new faces. Sure there are a few. But there are also a lot of the same. No slam towards anyone in particular. I personally feel Big Poppa should have been on...

I also can't believe how many of them were cutting with the grain!!!!

You hit it right on the head. Bbq has more than enough ingeresting peo:becky:ple and characters. Ive had just about all the trigg, lee Ann whippen I can take.

ThomEmery
05-31-2012, 08:27 AM
Lee Ann will be in a future episode
Naw I woulda liked Trigg goin into his boot last night

ique
05-31-2012, 08:28 AM
You hit it right on the head. Bbq has more than enough ingeresting peo:becky:ple and characters. Ive had just about all the trigg, lee Ann whippen I can take.

Unless I'm mistaken all the guys on the show last night were new faces.

Plus two new judges who were huge upgrades.

Ford
05-31-2012, 08:29 AM
I can't believe this is even being discussed. Where is tri-tip allowed in KCBS? Its not... Just as this was not a made for KCBS show... IT WAS A MADE FOR TV SHOW!!!!!

I had no complaints on this episode. It would have been nice to see more new faces. Sure there are a few. But there are also a lot of the same. No slam towards anyone in particular. I personally feel Big Poppa should have been on...

I also can't believe how many of them were cutting with the grain!!!!

Scottie. Comments were not directed at the show but were about preconceived notions about what judges want to see. I believe this attitude exists in a significant minority of judges in all organizations. Remember I'm FBA now with some KCBS. but I think a lot of judges in all organizations will now be looking for burnt ends in the box this summer and will score down if not there. BTW here in FBA we see a lot of burnt ends in boxes. But as Jim said they better be good and here that means lots of sugar on them. Not my personal preference.

I agree it would have been nice to see Dana, Jimmy Brod or Terry McKay as well. Not to mention you, Mike W., Chad and so many others. I don't know if any of the Florida boys even sent in a tape.

Carolyn immediately picked up on the grain as well. I posted my comments on the show in Q-talk. Overall an improvement. Tuffy was great.

Podge
05-31-2012, 08:52 AM
“BBQ Pitmasters - judging problems” this is the topic of discussion. I see no judging problems on this TV show. Now, if you want to talk preconceived notions on what judges should or should not look for as a result on watching this show, I like to give the judges a benefit of the doubt that they will judge as taught in a judging class, in a real sanctioned contest.

Fat Freddy
05-31-2012, 09:11 AM
Ok I am going to walk both sides of the line here. I liked the show and enjoyed many aspects of it. I know it is just a TV show with there own rules. I understand that completely. However I HOPE that new judges go by what is taught in class, to judge as presented and not because you want something else in there.

Lets be honest cooks have listened, and tried stuff they have seen on TV, so it is not beyond the possibility that a judge may do the same. I know last night I ABSOLUTELY got a call from another cook and this cook did say to me "I guess I will always have to put burnt ends in now because the judge expects it".....As for me my burnt ends need lots of work so much like the on theshow I will only turn them in if they turn out very good.

But it is only a show with its own rules, and I am going to watch it for entertainment only(maybe a hint here or there) but I wont change anything because of this season of the show.

Sledneck
05-31-2012, 09:14 AM
Unless I'm mistaken all the guys on the show last night were new faces.

Plus two new judges who were huge upgrades.
I was referring to the commercials where they show quite a few repeat faces. Last nite was great, I didnt know any of them. 3 new judges would of been an even better upgrade

Podge
05-31-2012, 09:15 AM
To expand on your point Fat Freddy,
If anything, I am more concerned about the preconceived notions of the BBQ judges on this forum when they read us go on and on and on about that damn Money Muscle!!.. in this forum setting, we’re all real-world competition cooks, talking about the need for the MM being presented. There is nothing in the rules saying it has to be. But now, it seems to me, that every cook and judge expects to see MM in the box. Everyone talks about “put burnt ends in the box, only if they’re great…. Or.. I don’t submit burnt ends… etc..etc.. “.. but by gosh, you better use MM if you expect to do well !!.. just my opinion from my obvervations.

Parts_Guy
05-31-2012, 09:17 AM
Ok I am going to walk both sides of the line here. I liked the show and enjoyed many aspects of it. I know it is just a TV show with there own rules. I understand that completely. However I HOPE that new judges go by what is taught in class, to judge as presented and not because you want something else in there.

Lets be honest cooks have listened, and tried stuff they have seen on TV, so it is not beyond the possibility that a judge may do the same. I know last night I ABSOLUTELY got a call from another cook and this cook did say to me "I guess I will always have to put burnt ends in now because the judge expects it".....As for me my burnt ends need lots of work so much like the on theshow I will only turn them in if they turn out very good.

But it is only a show with its own rules, and I am going to watch it for entertainment only(maybe a hint here or there) but I wont change anything because of this season of the show.

That was what I was thinking. I know it is TV and not KCBS. I can tell the difference. My fear is that not all judges can tell the difference and will now judge like what they saw on tv.

Scottie
05-31-2012, 09:29 AM
Unless I'm mistaken all the guys on the show last night were new faces.

Plus two new judges who were huge upgrades.


There were 3 new cooks. But from previews, there are quite a number of folks that have been on BBQ shows in the past. No slight, like yourself Chris, am I trying to do here. Everyone that is on the show deserves it.

And yes it was a huge upgrade on judging. I like that it was the real Myron and not some made for TV guy last night.

Look forward to seeing your episode. Can you say who you had as an assistant?

Bourbon Barrel BBQ
05-31-2012, 09:30 AM
To expand on your point Fat Freddy,
If anything, I am more concerned about the preconceived notions of the BBQ judges on this forum when they read us go on and on and on about that damn Money Muscle!!.. in this forum setting, we’re all real-world competition cooks, talking about the need for the MM being presented. There is nothing in the rules saying it has to be. But now, it seems to me, that every cook and judge expects to see MM in the box. Everyone talks about “put burnt ends in the box, only if they’re great…. Or.. I don’t submit burnt ends… etc..etc.. “.. but by gosh, you better use MM if you expect to do well !!.. just my opinion from my obvervations.

Podge didn't you know that only the cool kids turn in MM?

Plowboy
05-31-2012, 09:39 AM
Thought the should was good. Jim's food looked great. Everything else looked like a turd. Rib King slicing that tri-tip with the grain was mind blowing... and he won. Wow.

Plowboy
05-31-2012, 09:47 AM
I was referring to the commercials where they show quite a few repeat faces. Last nite was great, I didnt know any of them. 3 new judges would of been an even better upgrade

Trigg = Ratings

He's got a lot of fans because of the show.

Dan - 3eyzbbq
05-31-2012, 10:04 AM
I liked it, but thought the food looked pretty bad. Strange not seeing Tuffy cooking though.

Leatherheadiowa
05-31-2012, 10:09 AM
I was referring to the commercials where they show quite a few repeat faces. Last nite was great, I didnt know any of them. 3 new judges would of been an even better upgrade

I am really surpised Warren Sapp wasn't involved! I heard about his financial woes over the winter and thought he would be out working on this show or at least tending Myron's pit for him!:caked:

Sledneck
05-31-2012, 10:12 AM
Trigg = Ratings

He's got a lot of fans because of the show.

According to the latest Plowson ratings book? We all know and respect him but the average Joe watching doesn't. We would all watch regardless if he want on so I dont buy that. All these other successfull shows such food network star, top chef etc rarely have reoeat contestants.

Vince RnQ
05-31-2012, 10:19 AM
To expand on your point Fat Freddy,
If anything, I am more concerned about the preconceived notions of the BBQ judges on this forum when they read us go on and on and on about that damn Money Muscle!!.. in this forum setting, we’re all real-world competition cooks, talking about the need for the MM being presented. There is nothing in the rules saying it has to be. But now, it seems to me, that every cook and judge expects to see MM in the box. Everyone talks about “put burnt ends in the box, only if they’re great…. Or.. I don’t submit burnt ends… etc..etc.. “.. but by gosh, you better use MM if you expect to do well !!.. just my opinion from my obvervations.

Your comments also apply very well to the idea that the only chicken part anyone should ever use is a thigh. How many boxes of legs, wing or breast meat get scored down simply because there is an expectation that thighs should be in the box?

Scottie
05-31-2012, 10:28 AM
Thought the should was good. Jim's food looked great. Everything else looked like a turd. Rib King slicing that tri-tip with the grain was mind blowing... and he won. Wow.


I'd have to rewatch it, but I think his brisket was as well. They were all starting to look the same. It wasn't good looking food. At least for me. Even the brisket looked like a chainsaw was used to slice them.

big matt
05-31-2012, 10:39 AM
I'd have to rematch it, but I think his brisket was as well. They were all starting to look the same. It wasn't good looking food. At least for me. Even the brisket looked like a chainsaw was used to slice them.

I thought the exact same thing..the rib king didn't even trim the flat clean..my girlfriend was watching with me(she's supports my addiction)and said "god those boxes look ugly except the big guys"..it was pretty funny

BMinahan
05-31-2012, 10:50 AM
I to was surprised at the turn ins. It was like these guys never seen a brisket before or knew how to trim one or ever did a turnin box. So many better candidates than this group who would have nailed the topics. Let's see... Chris Hart (Hart Attack aka IQue) vs. Tuffy Stone (Cool Smoke) vs. Joe Beland (Tippy Canoe) would have been a great premiere. Even throw in Billy Gillespie (Smokin' Hoggs) Jack Daniels winner 2012 as a close substitute. Now that would be some good TV and we would all learn a thing or two.

- Bill

Plowboy
05-31-2012, 10:55 AM
According to the latest Plowson ratings book? We all know and respect him but the average Joe watching doesn't. We would all watch regardless if he want on so I dont buy that. All these other successfull shows such food network star, top chef etc rarely have reoeat contestants.


According to the line of people at contests waiting to get a picture with him. According to his sell out classes with Big Poppa Smokers.

So if we all are going to watch regardless of who's on the show, then who cares if the people are new or repeats. You're gonna watch either way.

U2CANQUE
05-31-2012, 11:14 AM
“BBQ Pitmasters - judging problems” this is the topic of discussion. I see no judging problems on this TV show. Now, if you want to talk preconceived notions on what judges should or should not look for as a result on watching this show, I like to give the judges a benefit of the doubt that they will judge as taught in a judging class, in a real sanctioned contest.

cricket cricket......

big matt
05-31-2012, 11:16 AM
According to the line of people at contests waiting to get a picture with him. According to his sell out classes with Big Poppa Smokers.

So if we all are going to watch regardless of who's on the show, then who cares if the people are new or repeats. You're gonna watch either way.

I agree Todd..while Johnny doesn't owe anyone anything and probably could care less of what anyone thinks of him..at every comp I've been at when he is there(10+)I've always seen him stop and take pictures with anyone that asks and he always makes sure to take a few minutes especially with the little kids..I've seen him make more than one kids week on many different occasions.

Durzil
05-31-2012, 11:54 AM
I agree Todd..while Johnny doesn't owe anyone anything and probably could care less of what anyone thinks of him..at every comp I've been at when he is there(10+)I've always seen him stop and take pictures with anyone that asks and he always makes sure to take a few minutes especially with the little kids..I've seen him make more than one kids week on many different occasions.

This is a big deal to me especially with the kids. I've heard of Myron going out of his way for kids as well. I like Johnny's personality on camera. Reminds me of my Grandfather may he rest in peace. So I do think he helps ratings as my wife even remembers him from little exposure.

I disliked the comments regarding burnt ends but this isn't a KCBS sanctioned event. We all have preconceived notions as to what our perfect box looks like to reference and it just sounds like they are using that as their judging criteria.

CarolinaQue
05-31-2012, 12:01 PM
I think that knowing who the judges are, and the fact that this wasn't a KCBS sanctioned event, I would do every thing that I could to impress them as people first and as judges second.

Rich Parker
05-31-2012, 12:02 PM
No I have to frickin make burnt ends this weekend!

bigabyte
05-31-2012, 12:06 PM
Sounds to me like KCBS should be renamed to BBQ Pit masters Roadshow. Horses, carts, just mix and match in any order, it's all the same.:crazy:

Muzzlebrake
05-31-2012, 12:29 PM
According to the line of people at contests waiting to get a picture with him. According to his sell out classes with Big Poppa Smokers.

So if we all are going to watch regardless of who's on the show, then who cares if the people are new or repeats. You're gonna watch either way.

I agree Todd..while Johnny doesn't owe anyone anything and probably could care less of what anyone thinks of him..at every comp I've been at when he is there(10+)I've always seen him stop and take pictures with anyone that asks and he always makes sure to take a few minutes especially with the little kids..I've seen him make more than one kids week on many different occasions.

I agree with you guys but it is also a bit of a double edged sword. There are plenty of folks that given the same opportunity to get the exposure Johnny has that would happily do the same.

That being said, I can see Sled's point too. Like Todd said we are all going to watch anyway, but there are plenty of marketable characters in the world of comp BBQ. What's wrong with seeing someone new get a shot?

TTNuge
05-31-2012, 12:48 PM
I agree with you guys but it is also a bit of a double edged sword. There are plenty of folks that given the same opportunity to get the exposure Johnny has that would happily do the same.

That being said, I can see Sled's point too. Like Todd said we are all going to watch anyway, but there are plenty of marketable characters in the world of comp BBQ. What's wrong with seeing someone new get a shot?


But that's basically what they did. For the most part during the interview process they wanted new people on the show and not the ones that had been featured before. Obviously they intermixed that a bit with the Big Names that they knew would be a draw. There were many great teams from Season 2 that didn't get on to Season 3 for that reason alone.

And based on what brand/face recognition that barely exists in the BBQ world, if you were going to make a 30 second commercial/intro wouldn't you make sure that those who are actually known to some people would be displayed prominently?

kihrer
05-31-2012, 12:50 PM
Like a lot of you, I'd like to see more new blood, too. I have a feeling that John goes back to the well with those he feels most comfortable with because after each season he isn't sure their is going to be another season. By picking those he is confident in, he reduces his risk. Since this whole thing seemed to be thrown together in a hurry, I think he took the safe route. I can't blame him there.

SmokeInDaEye
05-31-2012, 01:17 PM
It's all good in the name of BBQ.

We may not always love it as "insiders", but the support this show has given to spreading the gospel of competition que among every day backyard cooks is indisputable. Thanks to John Markus and his team for fighting so hard to keep it alive another year.

TheJackal
05-31-2012, 01:23 PM
I liked it, but thought the food looked pretty bad.

It was no Turducken, that's for sure. :razz:

According to the latest Plowson ratings book? We all know and respect him but the average Joe watching doesn't. We would all watch regardless if he want on so I dont buy that. All these other successfull shows such food network star, top chef etc rarely have reoeat contestants.

Speaking of BBQ people and other shows, it was interesting seeing Melissa Cookston on Chopped the other night. And she advanced with Tofu but ultimately lost because of wagyu rib-eye. :shocked:

Plowboy
05-31-2012, 01:47 PM
It was no Turducken, that's for sure. :razz:



Speaking of BBQ people and other shows, it was interesting seeing Melissa Cookston on Chopped the other night. And she advanced with Tofu but ultimately lost because of wagyu rib-eye. :shocked:

She also wasn't cooking on a pit or grill. It was a grill plate on a stovetop. Probably NOT her normal process. I thought she did a great job on Chopped. Best performance by her on any show yet. (Meaning how she represented herself and her brand. Not how she cooked/finished.)

TheJackal
05-31-2012, 02:03 PM
She also wasn't cooking on a pit or grill. It was a grill plate on a stovetop. Probably NOT her normal process. I thought she did a great job on Chopped. Best performance by her on any show yet. (Meaning how she represented herself and her brand. Not how she cooked/finished.)

Wasn't meant as a knock. I always like to see BBQ'ers on that show (my favorite show on tv btw). I think she has a good tv personality and enjoyed watching he on the show as well. We cooked near them in DC in 2010 when the swept the MBN portion of the contest. She obviously can 'present' quite well to the judges.

SmokeInDaEye
05-31-2012, 02:31 PM
She obviously can 'present' quite well to the judges.

I would say so with three whole hog victories in a row at Memphis in May and GC two out of those three years! :)

BBQchef33
05-31-2012, 03:07 PM
There were 3 new cooks. But from previews, there are quite a number of folks that have been on BBQ shows in the past. No slight, like yourself Chris, am I trying to do here. Everyone that is on the show deserves it.

And yes it was a huge upgrade on judging. I like that it was the real Myron and not some made for TV guy last night.

Look forward to seeing your episode. Can you say who you had as an assistant?


:thumb: thats EXACTLY what I noticed almost immediately.. Myron was more the Myron I have met than the guy in previous seasons.. and made it way more fun to watch.. I wanna see the Myron v. Tuffy wrasslin match. :clap2:

SmokinGuitarPlayer
05-31-2012, 03:19 PM
I just got myself used to NOT putting burnt ends in the box, in hopes of gaining points .. now I'm not sure ..I really think some judges out there will now consider it a "ding" if you don't have them in there ...

otherwise, they fixed most of the problems with season 3 but just as in real life, the guy with the best food lost and the really bad stuff won it appears.

Sledneck
05-31-2012, 03:24 PM
I just got myself used to NOT putting burnt ends in the box, in hopes of gaining points .. now I'm not sure ..I really think some judges out there will now consider it a "ding" if you don't have them in there ...

otherwise, they fixed most of the problems with season 3 but just as in real life, the guy with the best food lost and the really bad stuff won it appears.

For whatever reason no matter what I do my burnt ends don't come out well so I turn in slices only most of the time. The most calls I have in a category since I started comoeting is in brisket .

cvath
05-31-2012, 03:52 PM
otherwise, they fixed most of the problems with season 3 but just as in real life, the guy with the best food lost and the really bad stuff won it appears.This is a concerning statement. Assuming they used something resembling a KCBS scoring system - we as viewers were able to see the box and make a judgement on appearance (the lowest weighted of the three categories). We saw them pulling the brisket, but we didn't see each of them pulling or every pull they made. And we certainly didn't get the taste. I don't see how any of us could say definitely the the wrong person won or the order they should have placed.

Pappy Q
05-31-2012, 05:00 PM
Podge didn't you know that only the cool kids turn in MM?

He's just bitching cause he can't cook MM. Of course he still kicks my ass every time.

Podge
05-31-2012, 05:12 PM
He's just bitching cause he can't cook MM. Of course he still kicks my ass every time.

I can't cook MM, or any other damn muscle in a pork butt !! I cannot argue that !!

Red Valley BBQ
05-31-2012, 05:14 PM
otherwise, they fixed most of the problems with season 3 but just as in real life, the guy with the best food lost and the really bad stuff won it appears.

Could you elaborate on this some? I'm interested to know how you came to this conclusion.

SirPorkaLot
05-31-2012, 05:24 PM
Could you elaborate on this some? I'm interested to know how you came to this conclusion.

I'm confused on that one too.
If I saw the same preview everyone else did: the turn-in boxes, Tri-tip and brisket all looked less than average.

It had to be fairly close scores, cause there was certainly not any entries that looked like they were head and shoulders above the rest

Capn Kev
05-31-2012, 05:27 PM
I enjoyed the fact that they brought in Aaron Franklin. I don't know him personally, but I know his pit guy John Lewis very well. They CAN cook, and they both are BBQ Savants!! John runs the team called "Porky's Revenge", and we both started cooking comps back in 2009.

I found the show much better than last season, and I felt (that barring the burnt ends feedback) the judging was the best of any show so far. I am just happy to have BBQ back on TV! :clap:

Kev

Lake Dogs
05-31-2012, 06:30 PM
I watched it, against my better judgement, only to find that the show is significantly better this year. Kudos.

Ford, I didnt see anything a judge could glean or use from this. Perhaps it sold the need of / use of burnt ends to some competitors, but the guy from GA was right in that if they're not awesome, dont use 'em. Judges, from what I've seen, couldn't give a rip. If it's good, and tender, it rocks. If not, well....

drbbq
06-01-2012, 06:33 AM
Does anyone know if Franklin's BBQ actually serves Burnt Ends? That's not something I've ever seen in a Texas BBQ joint.

drbbq
06-01-2012, 06:36 AM
Does anyone know if Franklin's BBQ actually serves Burnt Ends? That's not something I've ever seen in a Texas BBQ joint.

They don't appear on their menu and the photos don't show any. They seem to slice the whole brisket which is typical of Texas. http://franklinbarbecue.com/menu/

Triple T BBQ
06-01-2012, 07:29 AM
They don't appear on their menu and the photos don't show any. They seem to slice the whole brisket which is typical of Texas. http://franklinbarbecue.com/menu/

If you ask for them when you order and they are not sold out, they will give them to you with your order.

RangerJ
06-01-2012, 08:16 AM
If you don't know the Franklin story, you can read it and a bunch of Texas BBQ History here:

http://www.texasmonthly.com/2012-02-01/feature.php

Registration is free and its a pretty good read or PM me and I'll give you my user name and password

I'm curious about the burnt end comment at his place. While I've never been there, most of the other places in the state either serve "wet" or "dry" / "fatty" or "lean". I can't name one place I've been to that has burnt ends.

I'll ask John Lewis of Porky's Revenge when I see him in St. Charles.

I think any thing that brings exposure to our hobby is great. As long as Warren Sapp is not involved that is...

Plowboy
06-01-2012, 08:39 AM
Does anyone know if Franklin's BBQ actually serves Burnt Ends? That's not something I've ever seen in a Texas BBQ joint.

They don't appear on their menu and the photos don't show any. They seem to slice the whole brisket which is typical of Texas. http://franklinbarbecue.com/menu/

Talking to yourself again?

drbbq
06-01-2012, 12:14 PM
Talking to yourself again?

Yes, it makes for a much more intelligent conversation :)

I know the Franklin story. He sells out of brfisket every day.

Here's some free advice. If you run out of brisket every day you should cook more brisket.

ModelMaker
06-01-2012, 12:45 PM
Yes, it makes for a much more intelligent conversation :)

I know the Franklin story. He sells out of brfisket every day.

Here's some free advice. If you run out of brisket every day you should cook more brisket.

If'n you cooks mo brisky and don't sell out, then you can't say you sells outta brisky evry day....
Ed

RangerJ
06-01-2012, 04:26 PM
Or, you could follow the model of some other long lasting successful Texas BBQ Joints and ignore "free advice".

Guess only time will tell.

G$
06-01-2012, 04:48 PM
Or, you could follow the model of some other long lasting successful Texas BBQ Joints and ignore "free advice".

Guess only time will tell.

Yeah, or work 22 hours a day instead of 16, etc etc.

jbrink01
06-01-2012, 06:06 PM
When our pit is empty, we go home. I don't want it all, just my share, profitably.

Big Poppa
06-01-2012, 09:36 PM
I wonder if there were no stars if there would be complaints....

Scottie we made a video...I should have asked you for a cover letter....damn.

I hindsight I didn't have to make the video...they knew who they wanted back and we werent it....I did make the Trigg video for them to cover the requirements. Im still waiting for Lindseys thank you card. hehehehe

Matt_A
06-01-2012, 10:59 PM
I'd have to rewatch it, but I think his brisket was as well. They were all starting to look the same. It wasn't good looking food. At least for me. Even the brisket looked like a chainsaw was used to slice them.
When Tuffy picked up the Solomon's brisket, he did a stretch test... I'm calling it a stretch test and not a pull test because it never pulled apart! It stretched like a rubber band.... and he won. Go figure.

Matt_A
06-01-2012, 11:03 PM
I to was surprised at the turn ins. It was like these guys never seen a brisket before or knew how to trim one or ever did a turnin box. So many better candidates than this group who would have nailed the topics. Let's see... Chris Hart (Hart Attack aka IQue) vs. Tuffy Stone (Cool Smoke) vs. Joe Beland (Tippy Canoe) would have been a great premiere. Even throw in Billy Gillespie (Smokin' Hoggs) Jack Daniels winner 2012 as a close substitute. Now that would be some good TV and we would all learn a thing or two.

- Bill
Ahhhh but, you're not thinking like a Producer.... this is not about who cooked the best food, it's all about creating "Drama" :twitch:

CarolinaQue
06-02-2012, 08:10 AM
Yes, it makes for a much more intelligent conversation :)

I know the Franklin story. He sells out of brfisket every day.

Here's some free advice. If you run out of brisket every day you should cook more brisket.



Yeah, that's it:roll:

Or...he's a smart business man by creating a demand. Let's see...cook more brisket and risk left overs which cut's into profit, or cook what he does, sell out and stay in the black day after day?

Yeah, that's a tough business decision for sure!!! And looking at the lines at his place, he'd need an 18 wheeler pit to keep up with the demand for his brisket.

I'd say that the business advice he's received so far has served him more than well.

ique
06-02-2012, 10:02 AM
Yes, it makes for a much more intelligent conversation :)

I know the Franklin story. He sells out of brfisket every day.

Here's some free advice. If you run out of brisket every day you should cook more brisket.

hahaha, Right Ray.

He runs the most highly regarded bbq restaurant in the country.

Here is my free advice, dont mess with success.

drbbq
06-02-2012, 10:10 AM
hahaha, Right Ray.

He runs the most highly regarded bbq restaurant in the country.

Here is my free advice, dont mess with success.

I think it's a grand marketing plan. Nothing more. And it seems many are buying into it.

drbbq
06-02-2012, 10:12 AM
He runs the most highly regarded bbq restaurant in the country.

Actually I think the place that's open one day a week for breakfeast is more highly regarded. They sell out by 9:00am. Snow's?

CBQ
06-02-2012, 10:19 AM
Billy Gillespie (Smokin' Hoggs) Jack Daniels winner 2012 as a close substitute.

or Shakes :mrgreen: He's the real power behind Smokin' Hoggz.

bmanMA
06-02-2012, 10:34 AM
I think it's a grand marketing plan. Nothing more. And it seems many are buying into it.

It worked well enough to get him out of that crappy green trailer and into a brick and mortar. It's not like he's the only spot in the Austin area that serves till he sells out. Just so happens he does it daily.

ique
06-02-2012, 10:50 AM
I think it's a grand marketing plan. Nothing more. And it seems many are buying into it.

It is good marketing but I think it also is a place that is really into the craft of making great bbq. There are plenty of high volume almost corporate bbq joints
(some good some bad) I see no need for Franklins to join those ranks, keep doing what you are doing.

Cheers, maybe see ya on Sunday

luke duke
06-02-2012, 04:11 PM
Actually I think the place that's open one day a week for breakfeast is more highly regarded. They sell out by 9:00am. Snow's?

No it isn't. No they don't.

drbbq
06-03-2012, 07:01 AM
So let me get this straight. Louie Muellers, Salt Lick, Black's, Smitty's, City Market, Coopers, etc all now take a back seat to a 5 year restaurant.

Surely you have all been there right? Can you tell us what puts Franklin BBQ ahead of these guys besides starting in a food truck?

ique
06-03-2012, 07:33 AM
So let me get this straight. Louie Muellers, Salt Lick, Black's, Smitty's, City Market, Coopers, etc all now take a back seat to a 5 year restaurant.

Surely you have all been there right? Can you tell us what puts Franklin BBQ ahead of these guys besides starting in a food truck?

I have not been to all of those restaurants Ray, but am ready for a road trip when you are.

One of those guys (Louie Mulellers?) called what Aaron does a "hobby".

I think its not surprising that the guy who babies one load of briskets a night can create a better product than those places focused a bit more on volume.

drbbq
06-03-2012, 07:59 AM
Louie Mueller is hardly a volume joint. Neither is Blacks. Both total artisans. Just old school without publicists.

MilitantSquatter
06-03-2012, 08:12 AM
Louie Mueller is hardly a volume joint. Neither is Blacks. Both total artisans. Just old school without publicists.

Ray - not exactly sure where you're going with this other than to say that Aaron Franklin may not be the most qualified to be a competition BBQ judge, but neither was Warren Sapp...Either way, I agree with you that Franklin has built a cult following in a short period of time that was helped by the built from the ground up food truck/trailer trend in a parking lot w/trailer & pit (after working for and buying the pit from John Mueller - son of Bobby Mueller). Being in the main part of Austin with a young, hip demographic close also helps create a buzz in the media.

I could be wrong but I believe that there are at least a few people in the BBQ world with a publicist or some type of PR.

I also agree the other joints you named are artisians (to varying degrees) or working off a legacy... I've been to all the others at least once, some twice.. Have not been to Franklin's yet, but would go there to see if the quality of product is as good as the reputation.

FYI...in case you weren't aware, Black's was featured several times in the last year on the show selling BBQ on the QVC television network. I heard that on their first appearance they sold over 1,000 briskets in in under 10 minutes !!!! In addition to the Black's website, you can still order briskets from QVC on their site. Not a bad gig... but is it still "artisian" ?

I also waited on a line at Louie Mueller's that extended out the back door. Long line at Snow's and City Market too...

The question will be - Will be interesting to see if Franklin BBQ will be granted the title of # 1 in the Texas Monthly BBQ Rankings that comes out next year.. That's where Snow's built such a following since the last edition in 2008... Given all the publicity, it's hard to see that they don't take top spot unless someone has it in for them


http://i700.photobucket.com/albums/ww8/MilitantSquatter/Texas%20BBQ/muellers2.jpg

http://i700.photobucket.com/albums/ww8/MilitantSquatter/Texas%20BBQ/snows2.jpg

http://i700.photobucket.com/albums/ww8/MilitantSquatter/Texas%20BBQ/CityMarket4.jpg

drbbq
06-03-2012, 08:38 AM
Thanks Vinny. Good to hear from a guy who
s been there. I haven't been to Snow's or Franklin but I've been to most of the other big names in Texas and beyond.
I just think the hero worship is a bit much (and a little early) from a bunch of people who've never eaten at his restaurant. He's becoming like the Chuck Norris of BBQ.

MilitantSquatter
06-03-2012, 08:52 AM
Thanks Vinny. Good to hear from a guy who
s been there. I haven't been to Snow's or Franklin but I've been to most of the other big names in Texas and beyond.
I just think the hero worship is a bit much (and a little early) from a bunch of people who've never eaten at his restaurant. He's becoming like the Chuck Norris of BBQ.

maybe we need an Aaron Frankin superpower list, like Chuck Norris.. I remember starting one of these in Woodpile a few years ago for Phil.

" Franklins Brisket is so soft and tender, he uses it as a pillow"

OK... maybe not.

Dustaway
06-03-2012, 09:58 AM
In Texas if you make the Texas monthly top fifty BBQ joints and your in the top five business is going to explode. And if your in the business of selling mags then you can't keep putting the same to ten up top.

I think Aaron is a great marketing person because part of the lines at his joint is the fact they always run out of que so people stand in line and never get a bite they even had to change policy because people were hiring others to stand in line and order chit loads and then they would deliver to them. So it must be great right.
I'm sure its better than 90% of the commercial joints around.

Jorge
06-03-2012, 11:00 AM
I have not been to all of those restaurants Ray, but am ready for a road trip when you are.

One of those guys (Louie Mulellers?) called what Aaron does a "hobby".

I think its not surprising that the guy who babies one load of briskets a night can create a better product than those places focused a bit more on volume.

Come on down. I've got a ringer or two in Austin to stand in line:mrgreen:

EDIT: And yes, I've had his brisket. A buddy was in line when I was on my way to San Antonio a while back and I met him for lunch. The brisket was really good. Not the best I've ever had, but I wouldn't say 'no' to another plate.

bmanMA
06-03-2012, 11:35 AM
EDIT: And yes, I've had his brisket. A buddy was in line when I was on my way to San Antonio a while back and I met him for lunch. The brisket was really good. Not the best I've ever had, but I wouldn't say 'no' to another plate.

That was my impression also. I've stood in line more than once :oops:
Better than most in the immediate Austin area for sure.

IMO I'd rather spend the time I woulda lost in line driving down to City Market in Luling. Hmm, when's my next "business" trip to Austin...

AZScott
06-03-2012, 12:10 PM
John Mueller should win the title next year. His place is on point and yes, he's in a trailer and sells out every day.

sitnfat
06-03-2012, 03:17 PM
I'm glad I ain't gotta stand in line for great brisket.

Capn Kev
06-03-2012, 03:37 PM
It is good marketing but I think it also is a place that is really into the craft of making great bbq. There are plenty of high volume almost corporate bbq joints
(some good some bad) I see no need for Franklins to join those ranks, keep doing what you are doing.

Cheers, maybe see ya on Sunday

I would agree. The world needs more places like Franklin BBQ. When my restaurant opens in a few years, it will serve the same level of quality BBQ. If you don't get there before it's gone, too farkin' bad. I won't be in it for the money, I'll be in it for the love, and just to make enough to survive. :wink:

Oh, and I've not been to Franklin's, but I am friends with John Lewis (pitmaster for Franklins), and the boy can cook! I still think I'm a better brisket cook, but he's the one with the "savant" title ;) http://texasbbqposse.blogspot.com/2012/03/cooking-backyard-bbq-with-john-mueller.html

drbbq
06-03-2012, 04:17 PM
Oh, and I've not been to Franklin's, but I am friends with John Lewis (pitmaster for Franklins), and the boy can cook! I still think I'm a better brisket cook, but he's the one with the "savant" title ;) http://texasbbqposse.blogspot.com/2012/03/cooking-backyard-bbq-with-john-mueller.html

So we're saying Aaron Franklin doesn't cook the brisket?

Capn Kev
06-03-2012, 04:33 PM
So we're saying Aaron Franklin doesn't cook the brisket?

Let me put it this way. I don't know Aaron Franklin's credentials, and I don't believe that he's doing the cooking of 60-70 briskets a day :)

I DO know John's prowess, and he knows his stuff.

Big Poppa
06-03-2012, 04:37 PM
I think it's a grand marketing plan. Nothing more. And it seems many are buying into it.

jeez ray....are you crusty these days or what? maybe someone needs to feed you...hehehe


I make guitars and people wait for 4 months....it isnt as easy to just say "make more" I cant make them as good and make more.

I am teasing you so dont take it wrong but I am sincere and hope that you have been there and tasted his food, checked out his ability to cook more before you wrote him off....P

MilitantSquatter
06-03-2012, 05:09 PM
Found this article that touches on some of the discussion points above.. Highlighted those...


http://www.getnside.com/atx/magazine/business/112011/profiles/1851-A_Barbecue_Bonanza/


A big cult following and a mouthwatering menu have helped garner national attention for Franklin Barbecue, establishing it as a barbecue staple in the Capitol City.

On E. 11th Street, in the eclectic city of Austin, Texas, there are people lined up to get their barbecue fix at Franklin Barbecue.

“We open at 11 a.m. and are usually closed by 2 p.m.,” says Stacy Franklin, co-owner of Franklin Barbecue with her husband, Aaron Franklin, who also serves as the master barbecue chef. “We stay open until we are sold out. We are trying to expand capacity here by adding more pits. That way, we can stay open later, and we will be equipped to serve more of our loyal customers.”

Seen as a “community food,” barbecue really does bring people together.
“It is one of those things that you can make at home, but most people wind up eating at a restaurant,” Stacy says.

Aaron, a mere 33 years old, has a wealth of knowledge and hands-on experience, starting at an earlier age. His parents owned a barbecue restaurant for a few years when he was a boy. Stacy explains that sometime in 2002, “Aaron decided he wanted to smoke a brisket. That is really where it all began.”

Every summer, this loving couple would have backyard barbecues and serve brisket to their friends.

“Our friends were very encouraging, and so Aaron kept doing it,” Stacy says. “He did a lot of experimenting with smoking until he got a feel for it.”
From the looks of the lines forming outside Franklin Barbecue daily, it is apparent that Aaron acquired extraordinary expertise from his many trials. His unique style and way of wanting to please as many of their customers as possible has led to a demand so great that this barbecue team is working on the supply sector increasing.

The Franklins’ last backyard barbecue attracted “around 100 people.” With the enthusiasm and support from their friends, this talented barbecue artisan was employed at John Mueller’s BBQ on Manor Road for a while. While Aaron did not barbecue there, he got a feel for cutting and serving the meats.

John Lewis, the assistant pit master at Franklin Barbecue, “has really

helped us out a lot.” Aaron is extremely humble and sincere. He gives his thanks to Lewis for many of the cooking techniques and sauces he created.

Opening Franklin Barbecue as a trailer in December 2009, the Franklins say they “really did not expect the business to become so busy, so quickly.”
As soon as sites such as Shaggybevo.com and Full Custom Gospel BBQ started talking, word spread very quickly.

“We started with one large smoker, then we filled that up quickly,” Stacy says. “Aaron started working on making another smoker (which takes some time). We then filled that one up and started talking about looking for a building in the fall of 2010. We found our building in December of 2010 and opened in March of 2011.”

From its succulent aroma to its endless fans, Franklin Barbecue has been touted as the No. 1 barbecue in Texas, “if not the country,” according to Bon Appetit magazine (July 2011).

As Stacy observes, “Bon Appetit did say, ‘in our opinion.’ I think that is really important to remember. Everyone has an opinion about barbecue. I think what put us on the map is our brisket. It is fork tender, peppery and moist. It is pretty darn good. The food that goes first is the pork spareribs. They fall off the bone.”

Sounds beyond tempting. In fact, it sounds too good to be true. Be that as it may, people from all over the country visit Franklin Barbecue when in Austin, either for business or pleasure.

That observation says it all. Franklin Barbecue has transformed into a “must see and taste” in Austin.

Although Aaron and Stacy are both from Texas, they did not meet until 2002, their magical year, in the city that would transform their hard work and business knowhow into a barbecue bonanza.

Aaron moved to Austin from Bryan in 1996. Stacy moved from Amarillo in 2002.

“Aaron was an unemployed musician, and I waited tables,” Stacy says. “Aaron’s passion for barbecue led us to talking about opening a restaurant for years and years. Finally, we purchased an old camper and gutted it, then started creating a kitchen area inside.”

Not having much money to start their venture, the Franklins saved money for more than a year. Anytime they had extra money, this dedicated duo bought something for the trailer such as a hot water heater or a refrigerator. They emphasize, “we figured out how much it would cost us daily just to keep the business afloat. I think it worked out to 32 customers a day. That seemed feasible, so we went for it.”

Austin is extremely pleased that the Franklins turned their dreams into a reality. It is a reality that many people share every day.

While it is still difficult to meet the current demand, the Franklins “spend a full day making enough food to serve for three hours before we sell out. It is not the type of thing that you can just crank out a lot of and have excellent-quality barbecue.”

There is a fine line between making more food and “making sure every brisket we serve is up to our standards.”

Their new smoker is almost finished, and that should double the smoking capacity. “Hopefully, we will be able to make enough food to be open for an early dinner.”

Yet, the Franklins admit they really want to have enough food “where people do not have to stand in line for two hours to get it.”
When asked about future expansion, Aaron does not see the barbecue going beyond the restaurant they have now.

“You never really have barbecue figured out,” he says. “Things are always changing: the fire, the wind, the meat and adding more smokers.”
Learning how to cook on different smokers is also part of the equation. Evidently, the more meat you put on a smoker changes how a smoker cooks.

“Barbecue is definitely not a hobby anymore,” Aaron says. “If I had more time, I would probably be experimenting with meats that I have never smoked.”

The menu not only is mouthwatering, but also somehow makes you crave barbecue regardless of the time of day. Having plenty for those out there with a sweet tooth, the Franklins admit
their pies are really good. Melissa Brinkman from Cake and Spoon makes fresh pies for the Franklins every day. The main meat dishes, side dishes and desserts are a testimony to the adage that “the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.”

Aaron describes it best: “Barbecue is such a labor-intensive food. Add to that a lot of care to make it really special. Somebody spent some time, and it tastes really, really good.”
If a picture can paint a thousand words, stop by and see for yourself. But be prepared to wait, and be ready to come back again soon. Once is not nearly enough.

Franklin Barbecue is located at 900 E. 11th St., Austin, Texas, 78702. Hours are Tuesday through Sunday from 11 a.m. – sold out. For more information, call 512-653-1187, or visit www.franklinbbq.com (http://www.franklinbbq.com), www.twitter.com (http://www.twitter.com)/franklinbbq or www.facebook.com/franklinbbq.com (http://www.facebook.com/franklinbbq.com).

RangerJ
06-03-2012, 05:37 PM
Well, I've never written a book, don't run my own joint, never won a GC and no one calls me "Dr." So perhaps I'm not the right person to comment.

But at the end of the day, the kid is having great success emulating the business model of many of the best, longest lasting BBQ joints in our state which equates to the country, IMHO.

For the record, John Mueller subscribes to the same philosophy, cooks all his own meat 5 days a week, and sells out by roughly 1:30. If, like you said earlier, you truly knew Franklin's story you would know that he worked under John in the early days and purchased John's pit as his first one.

Snow's is only open one day per week, many of the places you mention run out of product and I doubt any mentioned in this thread need your free advice.

In today's instant gratification world and with the rise of social media, perhaps Franklin was at the right place at the right time, but as I posted earlier, time will tell if he is around to stay. What I do know is, the dude cooks on an offset and last I checked was cutting the meat for almost every customer through the door.

Seems to have a program that works.

drbbq
06-03-2012, 10:24 PM
Well, I've never written a book, don't run my own joint, never won a GC and no one calls me "Dr." .

And I'm not from Texas but I don't see what any of this has to do with the topic........

SirPorkaLot
06-03-2012, 11:58 PM
It's all a fad.
Brisket that is.

Everyone knows real BBQ is pork.

And I like beans in my chili. Thanks.







Okay, now that I have completely alienated the Texans, and they have stopped reading this post.....




Aaron Franklin may or may not be the next generation of Texas BBQ royalty, but that remains to be seen.

Right now his place is going gangbusters because it is hip to be in line at his place. That will eventually wear off (or not).

Problem with that?
In my opinion, BBQ is not supposed to be "hip".

BBQ is supposed to be taking cheap, tough cuts of meat, and through a long process of cooking, using techniques passed down through generations, turn it into a juicy, delectable piece of meat.

I give as much credo to up and coming pitmasters with the buzz on their side, as I do other fads in BBQ:

Hot and Fast cooking
Cupcake/muffin pan chicken
Using the Texas crutch (aka foil)

While posts with references to the items above are entertaining reading, they are just that entertainment.

As is the BBQ Pitmasters show.
As long as you watch it as entertainment, and not as a guideline on how to cook BBQ, judge BBQ, and compete in BBQ, you will be just fine.

Big Poppa
06-04-2012, 08:52 AM
it is nearing cable access quality.

Lake Dogs
06-04-2012, 11:58 AM
It's all a fad.
Brisket that is.

Everyone knows real BBQ is pork.

And I like beans in my chili. Thanks.


Okay, now that I have completely alienated the Texans, and they have stopped reading this post.....

LMAO!! Me too; and **** it if I'm not married to a Texan. She's from Texas; NOT from the South!

;-)

<--- If I show her this I'm probably not going to get kissed tonight....


Side note: her Mama, Ms. Texas, is now convinced that Suthun' Brunswick Stew is THE BOMB.

ique
06-04-2012, 12:09 PM
And I'm not from Texas but I don't see what any of this has to do with the topic........

I think that comment pertains to most posts in this thread