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View Full Version : KCBS comp requirements I need clarification on


Fat Freddy
05-24-2012, 08:21 PM
Howdy all, I am getting ready for my first KCBS in June and I have been reading everything I can on requirements and I have noticed a few things mentioned in other threads that I dont quite understand and I am trying to avoid a couple of issues I had last year when one of the events was unsanctioned.

My first question is in regards to the 3 bin wash station. I have it covered but am curious as to what is the purpose of ME having it. My cutting boards are disposable and will be thrown away after each use. My pans are foil and disposable. I have different knives for brisket and ribs(I could use it with pork also) and wont be using a knife with chicken that I know of. And even the use of tongs is limited to chicken if necessary otherwise I will use food handling gloves. Like I say I can and WILL but I guess I dont understand the purpose in having this rule for everyone. I have a friend who has a camper and he says he does not have 3 wash bins and it has never been an issue.

Along those same lines i have read posts about the need of test strips and so where would I get these and are they really going to be used?

I know in the KCBS rules fire extinguishers are required but I can only find in other brethren posts the size required(5lbs) However again talking to other competitors I have been told that there is not a size requirement. So I am not sure which it is, so I contacted the contest organizer and she told me " I am not really sure if there is a requirement, I need to look into that" So even the organizer does not know what is required, but last year I ran into an issue at this contest when it was unsanctioned and am trying to avoid the same issues. Last year in the rules for contest there was not anything mentioned about fire extinguisher but I brought one anyways and during meat inspection i got asked about my fire extinguisher, the organizer even said then she forgot to put that in the rules but hoped we would have it covered(different person in charge but same organization group this year) The one I have is a white B,C Kitchen one 3 1/2 lbs and the guy doing inspection said he is not sure if it would work but after talking to the organizer he will let it pass but he has never seen a white one.

So is my white extinguisher not right?

I have also read posts about ash cans and covered ash cans but cannot find much info or rules for them. I have a galvanized pail/bucket that is uncovered is this good enough for the ash can or should I go ahead and spend $20 for a covered one?

My last question isnt so much about KCBS but about peoples choice at comps. Last year at this event the health dept was going around checking stuff and hit mine and a few others(Iowawildhogs) right around 11am. She actually came to my canopy as we were making the chicken box. Lots of apologies by the organizer but that didnt change that it happened.

So my question is if we are not doing PC then will we have to mess with the health dept at all. I dont mind and almost welcome if they show up at a decent time but I dont want to go through that mess again.

The contest organizer seems a bit lost at times and is telling different people different answers. She doesnt seem to know what health dept will do or KCBS requirements. Earlier in the month I was actually told that because I only have a canopy and not a camper in the campground I was going to be in a different area from everyone else and if I needed power i would have to pay extra past what was already paid, electricity was supposed to be furnished. I threw enough of a fit and got the right people involved and got that straightened up. There has been a few other issues people have had with info but since those were not my issues, I wont speak for them.

If I seem long winded or dont make sense I apologize I am just trying to make my first KCBS as stress free and fun as possible. because thats what it is going to be about to me FUN and trying to learn.

landarc
05-24-2012, 08:31 PM
The three bin wash station is both KCBS and Health, and it is for food safety, even if you know you will not need them, the health department does not know that. When I worked for the County doing festival stuff, I ended up having to do some initial inspections and it really is not so easy. If it is required, easiest path is to comply. Plus, then if you need it, you have it.

The comps I have been at, Fire Department ended up doing the extinguisher inspections and they left no doubt. I would get whatever the local FD wants you to have, again, meeting the KCBS rules as well. I have seen white ones, I seem to recall the retardant is a different formula for specific fires.

Nesbitreb
05-24-2012, 10:31 PM
Can someone point me to the right place on the KCBS website where the sink and fire extinguisher rules are? Maybe I'm just missing it in the Rules and Regulations page.

nthole
05-24-2012, 10:41 PM
Most of these mentioned are NOT KCBS rules, but they are local comp, hd or fd rules.

Matt_A
05-24-2012, 11:07 PM
The fire extinguisher is a KCBS rule:
4) Contestants shall provide all needed equipment, supplies and electricity, except as arranged for in advance. Contestants must adhere to all electrical, fire and other codes. A fire extinguisher shall be near all cooking devices.

It doesn't specify a type or size.

The triple sinks are also required:
d. Sanitizing of work area should be implemented with the use of a bleach/water rinse (one cap/gallon of water). Each contestant will provide a separate container for washing, rinsing and sanitizing of utensils.

CivilWarBBQ
05-24-2012, 11:21 PM
Let me see if I can help with some practical advice here. Keep in mind I am relating what the reality is at KCBS sanctioned events in my neck of the woods (Georgia). Things may be different in your area.

Fire Extinguishers - we've never once had this checked since we started doing KCBS in 2005. I think the rule is largely for liability assignment purposes after a fire. I do know of one contest here (Atlanta) that says they have the FD inspect extinguishers, though we don't cook that show.

Ash disposal - contests provide a metal drum to dump these in. sometimes idiots put trash or grease in the barrel which makes for extra excitement. If you are simply using a vessel to carry ashes to the drum then a lid isn't neccessary unless you are running around with a bucket shooting flames and sparks.

Health department - varies by locality, but if you are not serving the public you can simply inform them that is the case and tell them to take a hike. Judges don't count since they have all signed a disclaimer, so if you are not doing PC or vending it's a private party and the HD has no jurisdiction.

3 compartment sinks - see above. The majority of cooks using RVs do not have commercial wash stations.

Bottom line is don't stress of this stuff. It's a lot easier to claim ignorance and ask forgiveness than it is to attempt to be in compliance with every little thing. Use your common sense and if in doubt ask the cook teams on either side of you for a real-world opinion.

nthole
05-25-2012, 06:33 AM
The fire extinguisher is a KCBS rule:
4) Contestants shall provide all needed equipment, supplies and electricity, except as arranged for in advance. Contestants must adhere to all electrical, fire and other codes. A fire extinguisher shall be near all cooking devices.

It doesn't specify a type or size.

The triple sinks are also required:
d. Sanitizing of work area should be implemented with the use of a bleach/water rinse (one cap/gallon of water). Each contestant will provide a separate container for washing, rinsing and sanitizing of utensils.

Yes, I meant the details like size, type, bleach strips, etc. He was looking for the exact KCBS rules, thanks for finding them! :grin:

Goddahavit
05-25-2012, 07:12 AM
In my personal experience, i have been asked at every comp i have done, only 10-12 so far, for the 3 bay setup, fire extinguisher, thermometer, and on occasion the ash pan. i never used to carry the ash pan due to just shutting down the cooker and taking the ash home, as my stumps doesn't make much ash with lump, but now i bring it and dump it.

I was hassled in jersey by the fire marshal about the fire extinguisher, size and being inspected. I haven't gone back to that comp, it wasnt enough for them to have one it had to be inspected and i think he wanted it 5 lbs, but i digress.

these things take minimal room and cover the bases, use it or not, its not hard.

p.s. i now have a small camper and last 2 comps sill got asked for the 3 bay setup.....

hope it helps.

Eric

YankeeBBQ
05-25-2012, 08:22 AM
Bottom line is don't stress of this stuff. It's a lot easier to claim ignorance and ask forgiveness than it is to attempt to be in compliance with every little thing. Use your common sense and if in doubt ask the cook teams on either side of you for a real-world opinion.

I totally disagree with this sentiment. It's best to know the rules and comply with them then it is to worry there is going to be some gung ho heath department or fire official that's going to make your life miserable. All you need for a 3 bay wash station is 3 bustubs which are about $3 dollars each at Restaurant depot or any other restaurant supply store. Buy a decent sized fire extinguisher and when your home keep it somewhere it's easy to get to in case you ever need it. A small galvanized barrel with a lid is fine for ash. I believe you are also required to have an instant read thermometer so you can check you meat temp. None of these things are a big deal to accomplish. You may not think you need a wash setup but when you go to unroll your knives and accidentally drop them on the ground you'll be glad you have one.

Slamdunkpro
05-25-2012, 09:36 AM
I totally disagree with this sentiment. It's best to know the rules and comply with them then it is to worry there is going to be some gung ho heath department or fire official that's going to make your life miserable. All you need for a 3 bay wash station is 3 bustubs which are about $3 dollars each at Restaurant depot or any other restaurant supply store. Buy a decent sized fire extinguisher and when your home keep it somewhere it's easy to get to in case you ever need it. A small galvanized barrel with a lid is fine for ash. I believe you are also required to have an instant read thermometer so you can check you meat temp. None of these things are a big deal to accomplish. You may not think you need a wash setup but when you go to unroll your knives and accidentally drop them on the ground you'll be glad you have one.

There is no requirement for an instant read thermometer.

Slamdunkpro
05-25-2012, 09:42 AM
I was hassled in jersey by the fire marshal about the fire extinguisher, size and being inspected. I haven't gone back to that comp, it wasnt enough for them to have one it had to be inspected and i think he wanted it 5 lbs, but i digress.
I got inspected by the FM at an event and when he asked about my fire extinguisher I held up the nozzle end of our garden hose. He wasn't amused, but in fact you can put out a lot more fire (yes even a pit grease fire) with a garden hose than you can with a 5 lb dry chemical extinguisher (and without ruining your cooker).

Fat Freddy
05-25-2012, 09:50 AM
I thank everyone for their responses, as you can see their is a little bit of confusion for others in some if not all my questions. I do have the 3 wash bin and I think Steve gave me a perfect simple answer, so I wont question it at all.

I also really like Matt A. answer on fire extinguisher which is what I have been saying, I cant find size requirement, there is no rule on size. I wish the organizer could tell me something, other than not sure.

The only other thing I will add is that in regards to health dept. I was told moments ago on the phone that the HD can pretty much do what they want when they want whether doing PC or not, so it would be best to cover all the bases, including a free flow hand washing station.I never questioned the hand washing station because I actually made one this year but it is funny that this came up in my conversation this morning.

Countryhb
05-25-2012, 09:52 AM
Get a minimum 5 lb extinguisher rated at least 2ABC and you should be good. And for Pete's sake, have it serviced/inspected at least once year and it'll always be there ready in case you need it. California has thrown many different scenarios at us and this extinguisher (http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11151208&search=extiguisher&Ne=4000000&Mo=1&cm_re=1_en-_-Top_Left_Nav-_-Top_search&in_dym=1&lang=en-US&Nr=P_CatalogName:BC&Sp=S&N=5000043&Dx=mode+matchallpartial&Ntk=Text_Search&Dr=P_CatalogName:BC&whse=BC&D=extinguisher&Ntt=extinguisher&No=1&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Nty=1&topnav=&s=1) from Costco has passed everything. $65 may seem a bit steep, until you need it. And please, don't use water on a grease fire...

K-Train
05-25-2012, 10:19 AM
I got inspected by the FM at an event and when he asked about my fire extinguisher I held up the nozzle end of our garden hose. He wasn't amused, but in fact you can put out a lot more fire (yes even a pit grease fire) with a garden hose than you can with a 5 lb dry chemical extinguisher (and without ruining your cooker).
That's pretty funny

Fat Freddy
05-25-2012, 10:48 AM
Since i started this discussion I thought I should go ahead and give the answers I was given hopefully as absolutes.

1)health dept. will be inspecting EVERYONE at 10 am PC or not
2)wash bins(which I was satisfied with steves answer) required per HD and KCBS but probably wont be messed with or checked for because of Rv's
3)Fire extinguisher standard size is fine, i said 3 1/2 pound? she said perfect. No rating on it required just have to have one.
4) No rules for ash can because they will be furnishing a grease barrel and a ash barrel for the comp----I will still take my steel bucket

There was some confusion with this stuff, maybe I threw questions out that had not been asked before but I give credit they did look into my questions and let me know the answers at least for one of the comps.

Matt_A
05-25-2012, 09:26 PM
I also really like Matt A. answer on fire extinguisher which is what I have been saying, I cant find size requirement, there is no rule on size. I wish the organizer could tell me something, other than not sure.

For Smokin' Up A Storm, which is in July, in Oklahoma, the cook's info packet covers these requirements. Because of the increased fire danger this time of year, we are requiring a 5lb 3A:40B,C extinguisher. We will also have 1 1/2" hoses for cooking site water distribution that will also have standby hoses with nozzles in case there is need for more powerful firefighting. I plan on having some new extinguishers on hand if a team needs to purchase one (at cost) to meet the requirements.

smoke-n-my-i's
05-26-2012, 01:16 PM
I totally disagree with this sentiment. It's best to know the rules and comply with them then it is to worry there is going to be some gung ho heath department or fire official that's going to make your life miserable. All you need for a 3 bay wash station is 3 bustubs which are about $3 dollars each at Restaurant depot or any other restaurant supply store. Buy a decent sized fire extinguisher and when your home keep it somewhere it's easy to get to in case you ever need it. A small galvanized barrel with a lid is fine for ash. I believe you are also required to have an instant read thermometer so you can check you meat temp. None of these things are a big deal to accomplish. You may not think you need a wash setup but when you go to unroll your knives and accidentally drop them on the ground you'll be glad you have one.

I use the 3 bus boxes and have had no problems.... wash, rinse, sanitize.. that is all that is required... (hot water)

Fire extinguishers will vary from comp to comp... but I have found that a 5lb ABC will usually satisfy them all.

Since i started this discussion I thought I should go ahead and give the answers I was given hopefully as absolutes.

1)health dept. will be inspecting EVERYONE at 10 am PC or not
2)wash bins(which I was satisfied with steves answer) required per HD and KCBS but probably wont be messed with or checked for because of Rv's
3)Fire extinguisher standard size is fine, i said 3 1/2 pound? she said perfect. No rating on it required just have to have one.
4) No rules for ash can because they will be furnishing a grease barrel and a ash barrel for the comp----I will still take my steel bucket

There was some confusion with this stuff, maybe I threw questions out that had not been asked before but I give credit they did look into my questions and let me know the answers at least for one of the comps.

HD will vary from state to state, county to county.... and even city. I had one HD inspector that I think was trying to make a name for herself. I had to run over 100' of water hose.... she came by and said they had to go, and I had to go and buy the white RV type.... she would take NO for any answer even when I told her I was a competitor only and was NOT giving or selling to the public and the water was wash water only.... she insisted.... so I said ok... and she left, never did come back. I asked a couple of other competitors if she had said anything to them and had not... so I was going to stand my ground if she came back. :boxing: If she was going to make me leave, so was everyone else.... :rolleyes: wonder what the event coordinator was going to say about that.... On Monday I was still steaming... so I called that county HD office and made an inquiry... the head over the department said she was new and he would have a talk to her... I told him not to worry as she had singled me out and I would NEVER be back...

long story short, check with the event if in doubt... every time. send an email, that way you can print it out before you leave.... CYA

CivilWarBBQ
05-26-2012, 10:55 PM
Since i started this discussion I thought I should go ahead and give the answers I was given hopefully as absolutes.

1)health dept. will be inspecting EVERYONE at 10 am PC or not
2)wash bins(which I was satisfied with steves answer) required per HD and KCBS but probably wont be messed with or checked for because of Rv's
3)Fire extinguisher standard size is fine, i said 3 1/2 pound? she said perfect. No rating on it required just have to have one.
4) No rules for ash can because they will be furnishing a grease barrel and a ash barrel for the comp----I will still take my steel bucket

There was some confusion with this stuff, maybe I threw questions out that had not been asked before but I give credit they did look into my questions and let me know the answers at least for one of the comps.

Exactly my earilier point - there are is not consistent specification and/or enforcement on much of this questions you asked. It varies from region to region and contest to contest, sometimes even at the same contest from year to year. Like I said, don't get worked up over such stuff. If you show up and somebody demands that you produce this or that, you can either run to Walmart and pick one up or challenge said official to produce the proof that you must comply; you may find that there is no basis for the request.

For example, once a meat inspector told me my perfectly legal chicken could not be used for a KCBS sanctioned contest because it was not in the original packaging. I told him that was not a KCBS requirement, and he could either accept my home-trimmed chicken, show me the rule that required original packaging or give me my entry fee back and I would turn around and go home. Within a few minutes the Rep arrived to tell me our chicken was fine and meat inspector was "confused".

The moral of the story is just because somebody tells you something is required doesn't make it so, and you always have the right to demand written proof. Know the rules of the sanctioning body and apply your own common sense. There are plenty of well-meaning but misinformed people out there who will earnestly tell you things that just aren't so.


Get out there and cook and have fun! It's just BBQ.

Ford
05-27-2012, 08:25 AM
My advice is to get a 10 lb abc so long as your are not cooking with oil. For oil a k type is required. Here in fl we are inspected and a 5 lb is adequate. It must be certified each year. They usually have a company on site helping out to sell and certify.

Pig Headed
05-27-2012, 12:10 PM
At the NJ BBQ Championship in Wildwood, the local fire dept is very strict with regards to fire extinquishers. They must be 5lb ABC and have a current inspection on them. If they don't comply, they insist you buy one. They just so happen to have a local company there for you to purchase one from and they're not cheap. They even questioned my 1 week old inspection because it had an out of state sticker. I stood my ground and gave them the companies phone number to call because they're licensed in DE,PA& NJ.

butt head
05-27-2012, 12:17 PM
At the NJ BBQ Championship in Wildwood, the local fire dept is very strict with regards to fire extinquishers. They must be 5lb ABC and have a current inspection on them. If they don't comply, they insist you buy one. They just so happen to have a local company there for you to purchase one from and they're not cheap. They even questioned my 1 week old inspection because it had an out of state sticker. I stood my ground and gave them the companies phone number to call because they're licensed in DE,PA& NJ.

had the same issue their but mine was becouse the tag had my name on it, so i showed him my certification and then asked to see his for inspecting extinguishers...... he left :caked: