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Plowboy
05-15-2012, 11:33 PM
Just read the May BOD notes and saw that Kid's Q came up in the Education Committee Report. I've got a few issues with this as a parent.



Calling this eduction is a stretch. Cooking classes for kids is education. This should fall under the category of competition.
Kid's Q seems to run pretty well. Kids get a lot of applause. They get awards. Maybe some money. They get a lot of praise no matter how they do, but it is still a competition. Kids learn that sometimes they win and sometimes they don't. Such is life. Adding more structured competition and "invitationals" is going to spin this thing into what we have in the adult world: political messes. We'll turn well meaning and often appropriately helping parents into those competitive parents we see on many soccer, Pop Warner, and little league fields all over America.
The only add on proposed here from what we have today is three "invitationals". For $10,000, I don't see how that's smart. Why does a 7 year old need to travel across the country to an invitational?
When I read "new type of sanctioning", I actually hear "new type of revenue stream for KCBS".

Keep it local, keep it simple, and leave it alone. Adding Kid TOY or other "specific awards" and more rules is going to zap a lot of the fun that kids have cooking today. I like Tana, but she doesn't have a 7 year old that I'm aware of. This proposal is out of touch with what I believe parents and kids want.




EDUCATION COMMITTEE REPORT - Tana Shupe
In keeping with our goal to determine short-term and long-term goals, the following proposal is presented to the board to consider as the following short-term goal: To establish the integrity and consistency of Kids Q's events by having rules and regulations that will meet KCBS standards and will result in specific awards for younger cooks. We do believe, however, that there must be considerable flexibility in the contests themselves to support the visions and capabilities of the individual organizers.

Kids Q/ Future Legends Proposal


Objective: To reach the future generation of barbeque enthusiasts.

Target: Children ages 7-17 who are interested in cooking on a competitive level.

Implementation Date: 2013 Contest Season

Cost: Roughly $10,000

According to the Kansas City Barbeque Society’s mission statement, our goal “…is to celebrate, teach, preserve and promote barbeque as a culinary technique, sport and art form.” With this goal in mind, I would like to propose a new type of sanctioning for organizers as well as a contest series that will not only teach, preserve and promote barbeque, but possibly make a difference in the lives of many children.

Currently KCBS offers three types of sanctioning; Competitors Series, Licensed and General Contest Sanctioning. Our Organizers can also add ancillary contests to their sanctioning, one of those being a Kid’s Que. KCBS does not promote Kid’s Ques, nor do they assist Organizer’s who take the incentive to have such events.

Research shows that children involved in extracurricular activities are healthier both physically and mentally. According to a recent press release from the United States Census “About 75 percent of 12- to- 17-year-old children who participated in an extracurricular activity are on track academically (that is, in the grade at school expected for their age), compared with 60 percent of children in this age group who did not participate in such activities." This is just one of thousands of reports done on this issue.

In addition, the future of any organization depends on the next generation. Regardless of the sport or for that matter, the product, you have to develop relationships with new clients to prosper. In 2011, MMA created a membership survey and the results from that survey show that 70% of our members are 45 years old or older. Only .04% of our members are under the age of 25. This survey also revealed that 90% of the KCBS members live in a household with 2 or more residents and 82.1% of our members are married. It stands to assume that many of these married households include children of our members.

Proposal: Create a Kids Que contest series with Regional Invitational’s for the top teams.

Implementation: To help promote the success of this program, allow sanctioned events to hold a Kids Que in connection with their sanctioned event at no additional charge. In addition, advertise for Kids Que and promote events who have Kids Ques on an additional page in the Bullsheet and Website. Finally, allocate money in the 2013 budget for prize money for the Regional Invitational’s, as well as funds for members of the education committee to attend several Kids Que events to analyze and report back to committee. The Tuxedo, NC currently has a Future Legends of BBQ event held the second weekend in October. They have invited KCBS to attend this event and have asked the Education Committee to help promote such events through KCBS.

Rules/Regulations:

a. Teams, consisting of youth 7-17 years of age.
b. A selection of 2 meat categories (chicken, pork, beef), plus optional ancillary/ies
c. Adults interaction is limited to: Starting the fire, Cutting, and Verbal Advice
d. All cookers, meats, sauces, garnish follow KCBS rules and regulations
e. Teams would provide their own meats and cookers (may be donated by a sponsor)
f. Regional Events would be held in:
Region 1~ Anaheim, CA (Disneyland)
Region 2~ Kansas City, MO (American Royal)
Region 3~ Tuxedo, NC (Future Legends Contest)

Board concensus is that Tana will continue exploring this type of proposal via a member survey, a letter to organizers of current Kid's Ques and an article in The Bullsheet.

bover
05-16-2012, 08:28 AM
Thanks Todd. I'm glad I'm not the only one that thought the majority of this proposal was more about money than the kids. Really hoping this one gets shot down.

Diva
05-16-2012, 08:45 AM
I'm with you. Not to mention, Region 1's invitational is at Disneyland and the others are, well....

drbbq
05-16-2012, 09:19 AM
We're probably going to need to pay someone to handle this. I wonder who it will be?

drbbq
05-16-2012, 09:20 AM
I'm with you. Not to mention, Region 1's invitational is at Disneyland and the others are, well.... Not at Disneyland?

deguerre
05-16-2012, 09:48 AM
Best post I've read in the Comp forum EVER.

Plowboy
05-16-2012, 11:34 AM
I sent the above to the BOD as well. Got one "Bravo" and the rest are crickets so far.

Jorge
05-16-2012, 12:28 PM
I sent the above to the BOD as well. Got one "Bravo" and the rest are crickets so far.

I'm thinking about your email, and how I currently find myself in this position.....:razz:

Plowboy
05-16-2012, 01:59 PM
I'm thinking about your email, and how I currently find myself in this position.....:razz:

It is Scottie's fault.

Leatherheadiowa
05-16-2012, 04:07 PM
I love the idea of more Kids Q' events, established, organized, and operated at the local level! My 9 year old son travels with our team about 30% of the time and most of those times there is a Kids Q' involved. The other weekends he is off being a kid; fishing, going to sports camp, going to grandma's & grandpa's, playing in the dirt, etc, all which are important in being a kid.
I would rather see contests and legit barbeque organizations apply for the KCBS grants in order to get funding on an as needed basis in order to promote more contests at the local events where more family activities are always needed.
I will also attempt to contact the BOD and voice my opinion. I guess if the measure passes it won't have any effect on my child rearing but letting kids be kids aside from bbq is as important of a consideration as any.

Bunny
05-17-2012, 08:22 AM
I absolutely agree with you, Todd.

Scottie
05-17-2012, 08:23 AM
Viva la Stephy 2013!!!!!

Plowboy
05-17-2012, 09:00 AM
Viva la Stephy 2013!!!!!

Olé!

carlyle
05-17-2012, 10:10 AM
Our Kids Q is an important part of our contest weekend I don't think it needs to be carried on to regional invitationals. Kids Q in my opinion, should be fun events for everyone with out the pressure to qualify for a regional competition.

And creating invitationals means another job for the organizers to keep track of and report.

Plus, we do not use trained judges for Kids Q, encourage non critical judging scores, and adapt how we tally the scores for simplicity. All that would have to change.

Don't add another task onto the organizers and reps. please.

Scottie
05-17-2012, 11:35 AM
Olé!



Can i get a big Woot Woot!!!!

txschutte
05-20-2012, 02:29 PM
Totally agree, Todd.

Getting kids interested and keeping them interested is the job of the parent. A kids Q event is all about them getting some recognition for their hard work.

I would hate to see folks dragging their kids around the country to make them perform for the crowds. They are kids, not circus monkeys.

I'm afraid it would turn out to be the same thing as those beauty pageants for kids. More about the parents pride than letting them have fun.

caseydog
05-20-2012, 03:05 PM
I agree that cooking classes for kids are a great idea. I even suggest taking kids to farms to see first-hand where their food comes from (no, it doesn't come from a drive-thru window).

Also, how are 7 year olds going to cook BBQ safely without a lot of adult help? I could easily see entries at that age level becoming dad's cooking turned in by his kid.

I'm biased -- when I was a kid, we played baseball and football in the empty lot up the street, and hockey on the lake behind my house when it froze. There were no prizes -- half the time we didn't know what the score was.

I think kids should have the opportunity to learn that cooking good food is it's own reward, then if they want to take it to a competitive level, go for it.

Just my two cents.

CD

Bigdog
05-20-2012, 05:05 PM
I couldn't agree with you more Todd. :clap::clap::clap:

To me, this is a if it works, why fix it?

carlyle
05-20-2012, 07:48 PM
Casey Dog- like your idea of classes and field trips.

I have both watched and last year was a judge at the Kids Q at the Royal. Parents are monitored to make sure it is the kids product that hits the presentation box. And as a judge I was blown away by the quality of the entries, especially the youngest class.

They may have had a lot of help at home, but they had to do it themselves at the contest.

Plowboy
05-21-2012, 12:13 AM
La Stephy will fix all this in 2013. Woot, woot.

Scottie
05-21-2012, 10:19 AM
Viva la Stephy 2013!!!!

Jeff_in_KC
05-21-2012, 12:20 PM
I was open to the ideas as presented... until reading this thread. Some VERY good ideas are presented here and from parents of kids who do Kids Q too. As I represent the members and not my own beliefs, I can see a shift of opinion starting here. And that's only MY opinion that I'm speaking for, not any other board members'.

Plowboy
05-21-2012, 01:22 PM
El Jeffy!

CivilWarBBQ
05-22-2012, 04:15 PM
I'm going to have to chime in on the negative side of this one as well, because I'm thinking about the number of kids involved for the money spent. Certainly KidsQ is a terrific idea, but it seems to me that a larger number of kids would be reached if KCBS were to invest $10K in expanding the program at a grassroots level rather than a construct that by it's very nature will be exclusive.

Perhaps a better investment would be for KCBS to produce KidsQ materials (guides, judging materials, awards, etc.) to be provided free of charge to any organizer who would be willing to add KidsQ to their sanctioned event. This could dramatically increase particpation which is more in keeping with the education goal. As stated above, Tana's proposed plan is essentially for establishing a "Junior Pro" competition division, which has little to do with education.

Juggy D Beerman
05-23-2012, 08:36 AM
My dear departed daddy used to say, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"

As a parent, I have been involved with KidsQ contests for over fifteen years. I have also mentored some of my 3 childrens friends in contests as well. Fifteen years ago, it was not unusual to see a parent carry their child up to the stage to accept their ribbon. People would scratch their heads and wonder who really cooked that award winning entry. Rules back then were fairly lax. I guess enough complaints were filed that the KCBS did come up with the guidelines they now have in place and these "rules" seem to work just fine.

My kids loved cooking in the KidsQ contests and our team scheduled our contests to those BBQ contests that featured a contest for the kids. My boys did quite well winning several contests. My middle son would always rag on me on the way home when he had better ribbons than I did and especially if I happened to get shutout. His line was always, "Dad, you gotta cook what the judges like, not what you like." Thanks a lot, son..........

IMHO, adding BIG money to these friendly contests for kids will ruin what is a fun time for them. Helicopter parents will really have their rotors running when big money is on the line. Children have enough pressure on them these days and if big money is on the line, the pressure to win will be even greater.

Lager,

Juggy

Plowboy
05-23-2012, 10:57 AM
I can't say I've ever worried about how much cooking a kid did versus their parents helping. Each kid has their own ability, especially flipping burgers, wings, etc. The amount of help is going to vary, and to me, that's okay.

We were at a contest a few years ago when Michael was just 5 years old. He couldn't flip a chicken wing to save his life. One was about to fall off the grill and I pushed it back onto the grate with my finger. A contest official threatened to disqualify us because the kid must do all of the cooking. A little too far, IMHO.

On the other end of the spectrum, if you are going to do all of the cooking for your kid, then that's between you and God.

I've seen kids win adult categories and people complain that dad (on another team) cooked it for them. People are gonna bitch. I tend to worry more about me and mine than others.

Stoke&Smoke
06-05-2012, 01:48 PM
Yep, saw that same dynamic played out at a lot of cub scout pinewood derbys!:tsk:
Supposed to be fun for the kids, not competition for the parents!

smknwhlswife
06-06-2012, 01:29 PM
I agree with you Todd!

Why make this like the adults? Let them be kids and have fun for as long as they can. In many ways kids have to grow up too fast these days anyway.

There is a reason our girls are not in the "soccer comps", they don't want to be in a parent driven sport. We give them the choice of cooking and they have up to the time of signing up to change their mind. Once they are signed up it is their responsibility to follow through.

I think it would be a great idea to provide some cooking classes for kids. There could be so many great things in those classes. Beginning (the basics), intermediate (teaching some big meats), and advance (all the comp meats); are just some examples. I think this would be awesome!! I know sometimes learning from your parent/s may not be the best situation (anyone who know my redhead understands this comment, lol), this would be an excellent option. There are SO MANY options for this!

Jeff_in_KC
06-13-2012, 08:01 AM
I wouldn't have your kids in a cooking class I was teaching under any circumstances! I wouldn't want to be shown up by more knowledgeable people than I am! :-)

Plowboy
06-14-2012, 12:18 AM
I wouldn't have your kids in a cooking class I was teaching under any circumstances! I wouldn't want to be shown up by more knowledgeable people than I am! :-)

Christian won his third kid's que this weekend. Our pattern is, I give them limited options, they choose what they want to do. I've got way too much going on at a contest to have two kids doing a bunch of crazy crap. Both boys often have similar entries to make it easier for me to manage and buy for. The difference this weekend was Christian wanted avocado on his burger and Michael didn't. Otherwise, they made similar choices in the options we gave them. Oh, and Michael put the top on his burger and Christian presented the bun on the side to show the burger more. Again, their choices.

I did help them flip a couple of burgers when the smoke or heat was getting to them. Showed each of them to form a burger, which we've done before, but they still need coaching. I formed one, they formed five others. In the end, I think they ended up using one that they formed, but I can't be sure after they were cooked.

So, did I help, you bet. Did I cook their entries, hell no. Again, the biggest thing we do is make sure they are directing their entries. Audrey and I may offer suggestions, but sometimes they do something different. It is their entry, so we let them do what they want, even if we think it is wrong. It is only Kids Q. I want the kids to learn and enjoy. I don't care if they win. Between BBQ and BMX, we have enough trophies in our house.

Bunny
06-18-2012, 04:21 PM
My dear departed daddy used to say, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"

As a parent, I have been involved with KidsQ contests for over fifteen years. I have also mentored some of my 3 childrens friends in contests as well. Fifteen years ago, it was not unusual to see a parent carry their child up to the stage to accept their ribbon. People would scratch their heads and wonder who really cooked that award winning entry. Rules back then were fairly lax. I guess enough complaints were filed that the KCBS did come up with the guidelines they now have in place and these "rules" seem to work just fine.

My kids loved cooking in the KidsQ contests and our team scheduled our contests to those BBQ contests that featured a contest for the kids. My boys did quite well winning several contests. My middle son would always rag on me on the way home when he had better ribbons than I did and especially if I happened to get shutout. His line was always, "Dad, you gotta cook what the judges like, not what you like." Thanks a lot, son..........

IMHO, adding BIG money to these friendly contests for kids will ruin what is a fun time for them. Helicopter parents will really have their rotors running when big money is on the line. Children have enough pressure on them these days and if big money is on the line, the pressure to win will be even greater.

Lager,

Juggy

I'm with the beerman

Plowboy
06-19-2012, 12:29 PM
I'm with the beerman
I'll have what she's having.

jbrink01
06-20-2012, 08:39 PM
In the immortal words of Harvey Korman, aka: Hedley Lamarr, Harumph! What Todd said.