View Full Version : Anti-goober rule...thanks Dave!
05-11-2012, 01:15 PM
Mr. Compton...even if you accomplish nothing else during your time on the BoD, I think we can consider your time served a big success. No more involuntary distribution of bodily fluids in the judges tent!
From this month's KCBS BoD meeting minutes:
The following change to judges' Rule #3 was also submitted:
3) Each judge will first score all the samples for appearance of the meat. The turn-in containers will then be passed around the table and each judge will place a sample from each of the containers in the appropriate box on the judging plate. Judges shall not lick their fingers while taking these samples; paper towels, non-scented wipes or damp wash cloths are preferred. The judge will then score each entry for taste and tenderness before moving on to the next entry. A roll call vote was requested resulting in all aye votes. The motion passed.
I would also ask that the CBJ Committee look at adding the changes to Judges' Rule #3 to the Judges' CD and stressing this in all future CBJ classes.
05-11-2012, 01:24 PM
Judges shall not lick their fingers while taking these samples; paper towels, non-scented wipes or damp wash cloths are preferred
Ok just vomited a little in my mouth thinking this was going on:sick:
05-11-2012, 04:04 PM
Really?...but the licking fingers at other times is perfectly allowable? Do they need a rule against picking your nose also? Come on!
05-11-2012, 04:26 PM
I'm sure there are plenty of judges that have compromised immune systems (Diabetes etc...) that would greatly appreciate the decrease in exposure risks this would make.
05-11-2012, 04:27 PM
Dang, that's how I always get the big pieces.
Thanks alot Dave.....
05-11-2012, 05:35 PM
Can someone explaine how me licking my fingers, then taking a piece of meat, (dont know about other judges, but I dont touch other peices when I get my sample), has any bearing on anyone else?
One reason I sit at the end of the table. I ask the TC to start the chicken at the opposite side, so when the pork comes around I am last and I dont have to use the stupid little fork to get the pork out as I am last one and I dont have to worry about offending the freaking germaphopes!
They dont appreciate my Al Bundy impersonation at contests in CA either...
If you are that paranoid, why dont you just lobby to have KCBS start making the table captian where gloves and make them give you the piece of meat...
05-11-2012, 07:02 PM
The change is a step in the right direction. I was a table captain and one of the judges, well known to the reps, was a frikken SERIOUS finger licker. He did not stop at just a subtle lick of the tips. Oh no, this guy would stick all 4 fingers and his thumb into his mouth as far as they would go, sucking loudly. Really disgusting. Other judges at the table asked me to get him to stop so I did. His response? "It is not in the rules not to lick your fingers, so it is OK for me to do so.":shocked:
I'm not really a confrontational guy so I told him in that case you will get your sample last for the rest of the contest. His response to that?
" That's not fair!"
To bad for you man. I got him kicked out of the judges chair. Made for a much happier table. At least until his replacement arrived.
The freaking reps replaced him with his wife! Woo Hoo!!!
Sometimes there just aren't enough rules.
05-11-2012, 07:05 PM
I personally think that the approach to this rule is wrong. If you're worried about sharing germs when removing chicken and ribs from the box then provide plastic tongs to remove the piece. You can buy 144 piece package of 6.5" plastic tongs from Sam's Club for $70.00. Many of us use toothpicks to remove chicken and ribs from the box and we're provided plastic forks to take our pork samples and sometimes our brisket samples.
What concerns me about the idea of licking fingers between boxes during the time when the boxes are being passed is that the judge is able to form an opinion about the the taste of each sample prior to actually tasting the meat. That judge can determine that they like the flavor of sample #4 and they may judge all of the other boxes lower than #4. When I take my samples from the box using a toothpick I also wipe my toothpick between boxes so there isn't any chance of transferring the taste of one meat to the next.
That is my opinion but I think I would suggest the idea of tasting the sauce rather than contaminating the remaining meat. I mean, get real, how do we know the cook doesn't lick their fingers as they place each piece in the box?
05-12-2012, 01:00 AM
Personally, I am the type of person that doesn't get bothered by "germs" and "contamination." I will share a toothbrush with someone.
That being said, I can see how this rule would benefit the integrity of judging food. The subconscious of your mind can play a huge role in your thought process, and licking your fingers can affect your own decision in a positive/negative way whether you know it or not. In addition, if your disrupting someone else sitting at that table and making them feel uneasy, I can assume the other people at the table will be distracted and not be able to give a fully genuine review.
05-12-2012, 08:47 AM
I have caught myself at the table before. It's a natural thing to do! But yes, gross. After I catch myself I tend to look around to see if anyone else is doing it... and of course like every 3rd person is doing it. You can tell some catch themselves, while others dont seem very self aware and are licking away like my dog.
Fact is, I am for this rule. It is pretty gross IMO.
05-12-2012, 12:55 PM
Julie, that was my suggestion to have the organizer provide one for each box especially for chicken, ribs, and brisket... a fork is usually provided for pork, and like I told Dave, a fork is good, but a finger and or thumb is also used to "grab" hold the meat to the fork....
It is emphasized at both the judges class and table captain class not to lick those fingers, and paper towels etc. are provided, but it is natural to lick the sauce off the fingers first.....
INHO, this is a step forward.....
05-12-2012, 07:36 PM
INHO, this is a step forward.....
I agree 100% And I hope my comment about cooks licking fingers was read with the sarcasm that was intended. :loco: I do think presenting it as an issue of not tasting before all samples are on your plate vs sharing germs would be more gentle approach. Julie
I've been a CTC for two years and table captained quite a few times before I was certified. I always remind my table not to lick their fingers during the passing and nobody has ever objected. In fact, there seems to be a high degree of inherent understanding of why one should not do so. As to adding it to the rule, no harm done if it is.
Since the food is touched by human hands, devoid of gloves, there is always a chance of spreading contamination albeit likely small. It makes great sense, however, to promote sensible handling procedures.
There is one Rep who is infamous for telling everyone not to use toothpicks or skewers for removing food from the boxes. When we encounter him, we keep a watch out so he won't see us and do it anyway (there being no rule against it).
05-14-2012, 05:12 PM
GLOVES... did someone mention gloves....
Do you really think wearing gloves keep the turn in meats "clean"?
Here are my thoughts on gloves.... and my opinion only....
I use them probably 99.9% of the time while cooking. Yes, I think I am human, and will, by habit, just grab a the meat... usually from frustration because a glove or two rip when trying to put them on.
The normal gloves that are used come in a cardboard type box. Look closely, it states that they are not sterile... :shocked: These same type of gloves are at your doctor's office that gives you an exam when he puts them on... think about that the next time he/she sticks a finger.... well, you get the picture.
So, if they are NOT sterile, they do and will contain all kinds of "cooties"... the box is open the the open air. Dust, pollen, pollution, etc. lands on the gloves exposed in that box, bugs, flies, etc. can come and go as they want... especially at an event just sitting on a table. Do you wash your hands when you pick them up to put them on? If not, you have contaminated the OUTSIDE of the glove that will be handling the food....
Now, did you change them when you went from chicken to ribs or from one type of meat to another? If not, you just cross contaminated the meat... think about it. IF that chicken had salmonella you just put it on the next meat.... I hope you cooked it good enough ! ! !
I am probably more attentive to this with my pork allergy... yes, if you don't know it, I am allergic to pork and can NOT eat it... I can handle it with no problem. Therefore, my expenses are probably twice what most teams are. Why? I have two cookers, two sets of tongs, two of everything... and yes, BOXES of gloves..... they keep my hands cleaner... that is the intention. If you handle raw meat, it keeps the blood, meat fragments etc from getting under your nails and creases in your skin, so when you don't wash properly it won't cross contaminate the next item you handle....
Something to think about the next time you are at a comp or even eating out.... did the cashier taking your money wearing those clear plastic gloves just fill someone's order??? watch them.... most likely YES... :shocked:
05-14-2012, 08:42 PM
Take a look around during the awards...who would want to judge?? I once considered it, but not after witnessing the hygiene of my fellow competitors...yikes!
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