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pat
05-02-2012, 04:46 PM
I was looking through some old threads but became overwhelmed so thought I would just ask again.

I'm buying a 24' Forest River Work & Play toyhauler for competitions. The tag on the trailer has a GVWR of 11,010. Can I realistically and safely pull this with a 3/4 ton truck? A friend swears I need a v10 or diesel to pull it.

I am clueless when it comes to these things. Does the 11,010 account for an empty trailer or something different? :icon_blush: Thanks!!

Ron_L
05-02-2012, 04:54 PM
GVWR is the maximum weight of the trailer and the cargo. There should be a sticker on the trailer with the empty weight, and also the actual weight as equipped, without cargo. The max cargo is GVWR minus the actual weight.

Ron_L
05-02-2012, 04:57 PM
BTW, Trailer Life has comprehensive towing guides so you can determine what you truck can handle. It's not exactly as simple as the guide, but it will get you close.

http://www.trailerlife.com/trailer-towing-guides/

Mornin' Wood
05-02-2012, 05:03 PM
I was looking through some old threads but became overwhelmed so thought I would just ask again.

I'm buying a 24' Forest River Work & Play toyhauler for competitions. The tag on the trailer has a GVWR of 11,010. Can I realistically and safely pull this with a 3/4 ton truck? A friend swears I need a v10 or diesel to pull it.

I am clueless when it comes to these things. Does the 11,010 account for an empty trailer or something different? :icon_blush: Thanks!!

Yes, you CAN and should pull it with a 3/4 ton truck. The GVWR is the MAXIMUM weigh that the trailer can weigh, when you have the maximum amount of cargo (per the mfr) in it.
I don't see a 24 foot work and play in their lineup right now with a gvwr or 11010, so i don't see the specific specs. So you need to find out what the "dry weight" or unladen weight of the trailer is, then add the weight of your cargo, and THAT is the weight of your trailer. Most 3/4 ton trucks can safely and legally pull at least 10,000 pounds (even my 1997 Suburban 2500 can), and it's unlikely that your 24' trailer will exceed that. VERY unlikely.

That said, if your truck has a V6 or a small V8 and you live in the mountains, it's gonna be huffin' and puffin' its way up if your trailer is in the 10k lbs weight range. But as far as having too small a truck (with a 3/4 ton), it's unlikely. And the lighter (softer) sprung 3/4 ton truck will be MUCH more gentle on your trailer and its contents than an otherwise-similar 1 ton truck.

I've had big trucks and small trucks, and I've trailered quite a bit - cross country, around town, and in the mountains. Be sure to get yourself a GOOD brake controller - I'd strongly suggest a Tekonsha Prodigy (or P3) or a Jordan. A cheap brake controller makes for a crappy ride.

hamiltont
05-02-2012, 05:12 PM
And... I will add that a good equalizer hitch set up properly will make a huge difference as well.

Ron_L
05-02-2012, 05:12 PM
Yes, you CAN and should pull it with a 3/4 ton truck.

Without knowing the year, manufacturer and model of the truck, and what engine and rear differential it has I wouldn't be so bold. For example, I looked at the 2011 Chevy 2500 and found towing capacities ranging from 9000 lbs to 16000 lbs depending on the configuration.

Plus, nothing has been said about the tongue weight of the trailer and the cargo carrying capacity of the trunk, the amount of cargo and weight of passengers, etc.

And, unless the trailer has been put on a scale with full tanks and all of the cargo the actual towing weight is unknown, so the GVWR is the safest weight to use. Most "experts" recommend at least 15% headroom over the max trailer weight for safety, so if the GVWR is 11,000 lbs the truck should be capable of handling at least 12,650 lbs to be safe.

Yes, the right 3/4 ton should have no problems, but the wrong one would be a big problem.

I agree 100% on the brake controller. A proportional controller like the Prodigy or P3 is mandatory. Some trucks (Ford in particular) have one built in as an option.

caseydog
05-02-2012, 05:33 PM
At the camper forum I belong to, the Yurripeen members are amazed at what we tow with. We are amazed with what they tow with.

Yurripeen towing ratings are much higher than ours. My Volvo wagon is rated by Volvo to tow 3,500 pounds -- with a 3.2 litre straight six.

The main thing is to make sure you have trailer brakes on a heavy trailer, so you can stop without jackknifing. The other thing is to add a transmission cooler to automatics, if you don't already have one.

If you have an overdrive top gear, you may not be able to use it, and you may not be able to safely do 70 MPH with the trailer in tow, but a 3/4-ton pickup should easily tow that trailer.

CD

Mornin' Wood
05-02-2012, 05:40 PM
Without knowing the year, manufacturer and model of the truck, and what engine and rear differential it has I wouldn't be so bold. For example, I looked at the 2011 Chevy 2500 and found towing capacities ranging from 9000 lbs to 16000 lbs depending on the configuration.

Plus, nothing has been said about the tongue weight of the trailer and the cargo carrying capacity of the trunk, the amount of cargo and weight of passengers, etc.

And, unless the trailer has been put on a scale with full tanks and all of the cargo the actual towing weight is unknown, so the GVWR is the safest weight to use. Most "experts" recommend at least 15% headroom over the max trailer weight for safety, so if the GVWR is 11,000 lbs the truck should be capable of handling at least 12,650 lbs to be safe.

Yes, the right 3/4 ton should have no problems, but the wrong one would be a big problem.

I agree 100% on the brake controller. A proportional controller like the Prodigy or P3 is mandatory. Some trucks (Ford in particular) have one built in as an option.

Agreed, Ron. I've towed so much and often I chat on forums where guys have been towing for fifty years so I take a bunch for granted here. No doubt, the idea is that you MUST know the legit towing capacity of the tow vehicle, as well as the ACTUAL loaded trailer weight to be safe. And don't forget to account for cargo weight IN the tow vehicle, and that includes passengers.

The only part I have to bite my tongue before I agree with is the part of the "headroom"...in theory, the towing capacity of the tow vehicle should actually be the towing capacity of the tow vehicle. But since there is no real standard nor is there an outside agency with any real authority that establishes the towing capacities (typically set by the vehicle manufacturer at what often seems like a pretty arbitrary value), I understand why some "experts" suggest the headroom.

As you say, though, no doubt a properly loaded / balanced trailer, as well as a decent weight-distribution hitch (yes, even for you guys with one-ton trucks) and a GOOD sway controller (think dual-cam or Hensley or the like) and a good brake controller ... all make for potentially safe trailering.

And though I haven't used one, I have seen plenty of good reports on the integrated brake controllers.

At the camper forum I belong to, the Yurripeen members are amazed at what we tow with. We are amazed with what they tow with.

Yurripeen towing ratings are much higher than ours. My Volvo wagon is rated by Volvo to tow 3,500 pounds -- with a 3.2 litre straight six.

The main thing is to make sure you have trailer brakes on a heavy trailer, so you can stop without jackknifing. The other thing is to add a transmission cooler to automatics, if you don't already have one.


Same with some in Canada. Elsewhere in the world, they simply don't have the huge vehicles we have here in the US - yet they manage to tow some impressive loads. Often, their vehicles and their hitches are beefed up - an art that is all but lost in most of the US. It's hard to find a place that will modify a vehicle or its suspension or its hitch here -- in large part because the ability is lost - and then there's the liability and the cost. But check out Can Am RV in Canada. They make some impressive (although admittedly sometimes downright scary) tow vehicle-trailer combos.

Ford
05-02-2012, 06:38 PM
Read the specs on front surface as well. It does impact towing. Pulling 10,000 lbs with a blunt nose with a gas engine will have a real serious impact on mpg. Probably less than 50% and winds make it worse. A diesel makes a huge difference.

Rookie'48
05-02-2012, 07:42 PM
Pat, my theory is that you can never have too much truck :rolleyes:. Then again, trucks cost bucks and dollars are in short supply right now.

caseydog
05-02-2012, 07:49 PM
Pat, my theory is that you can never have too much truck :rolleyes:.

I live in Dallas, where way too many people have too much truck. You really don't need an F250 Super-Duty to commute to an office job, and tow a 22-foot boat ten days a year.

CD

txschutte
05-02-2012, 07:51 PM
Yes! No V10 or diesel needed. My 6.2 L is plenty enough to haul an 11 ton mini excavator on it. Transmissions is where you get towing, not engine (to a point) My 2012 F250 has been set up with the heavy duty front springs and integral brake controller. My truck also has the trailer sway control on it.

As RonL said, the 3/4 truck aren't even across the board. Check manufacturers load ratings for your truck using the VIN number.

Rich Parker
05-02-2012, 08:20 PM
Bigger is better!

bodcat
05-02-2012, 11:01 PM
I have a 2011 Chevy 1500 5.3L rated to pull 9,500 and I pull a 26ft toyhauler weighing around 8k, GVWR 10k. I wish I had a diesel, but I manage with what I have. I normally drive around 60mph @3k rpm. I could pull it faster, but it seems to like 60 without downshifting too much. If I could do it over I probably would have bought a super-lite.

CivilWarBBQ
05-02-2012, 11:34 PM
It hasn't been mentioned, so let me add that a transmission cooler is an absolute must for hauling. If you truck has the "towing package" you probably have one from the factory, if not, you either add one now or later along with your new tranny after you've burned up the first one.

EDIT: Oops, sorry. Casey did mention this earlier. Advice still applies.

msavard
05-03-2012, 12:09 AM
Bigger is better!


Exactly :thumb:

pat
05-03-2012, 12:19 AM
Thanks to everyone for the replies! I found what I think is a winner tonight...."1999 Ford F-250 Super Duty XLT Supercab 6.8 10 Cyl. Electronic Fuel Injection Gasoline".

Does this sound sufficient? They were closed so I couldn't open the door to see the tag etc. Thanks again for all the help!

http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj228/pharmeyer/truck2.jpg

Will work for bbq
05-03-2012, 02:16 AM
Lots of good info here already but I'll add my $.02.

Because the trailer is a toy hauler the actual dry weight would probably most likely be under 7,000 lbs depending on the model. As others have mentioned add the dry weight with the weight of your cargo including water and batteries etc... The dry weight should be on a yellow sticker (look on the screen door towards the bottom) dry weight plus cargo should not exceed the gvwr.

The truck you posted should be adequate but I would recommend doing a little research on it. What I did when I purchased my used 2500HD to pull my TT was since it was used and didn't have the dealer options sheet I took a picture of the RPO codes. On a GM the RPO codes are in the glove box the Ford I believe has them on the drivers door post. Then you can research those codes on the internet to find out how the truck is equip't from rear axle ratio, engine, transmission and any trailering packages it may have. Rear axle ratio is important IMO 4:10 is ideal. Here is a good resource for RPO codes http://www.rpocodes.com/ Ford Option Codes are on the right and example RPO code is X4N which is a Limited Slip differential/4:10 Ratio.

Rich Parker
05-03-2012, 04:45 AM
Thanks to everyone for the replies! I found what I think is a winner tonight...."1999 Ford F-250 Super Duty XLT Supercab 6.8 10 Cyl. Electronic Fuel Injection Gasoline".

Does this sound sufficient? They were closed so I couldn't open the door to see the tag etc. Thanks again for all the help!

http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj228/pharmeyer/truck2.jpg

If you are looking for a Ford pre 2004 get a F250 7.3L diesel that will last longer than the truck and will pull a house.

I picked up a F350 6.0L diesel last night to haul my trailer around. I married into a Chevy Avalanche that can easily pull the trailer but almost all of my bbq comps are over 3 hours from home and I don't want to torture the truck running high rpm's for that kind of distance. In my opinion if you are staying around home where the truck won't have to work that hard for a considerable amount of time get a half ton if not get a 3/4 ton. I can't say gas or diesel because I haven't had mine a full day yet but damn the diesel sounds good. :)

Edit: When looking at the Ford trucks before buying take the vin to a dealer and ask for the oasis report which will give you the service done to it during the warranty.

kurtsara
05-03-2012, 06:03 AM
Just remember, most pickups will pull anything, you also have to be able to stop it, that is the hard part.

That being said, we pull a camper with our Goldwing motorcycle and just ride a little slower and stop earlier.

rksylves
05-03-2012, 07:54 AM
The most important thing you can do is first to give yourself an education on what all those acronyms mean and how they apply to your truck/trailer combination. Knowing exactly what your weights are and what equipment may or may not help you out will go a long way towards your safety and how hard you need to hit your wallet. Opinions are worth exactly what you paid for them. Knowing for a fact what the numbers are that apply to your rig is worth FAR more.

Buying a weight distributing hitch that is much too big is almost as bad as buying one that is too small (or none at all).

Find a weigh station that you can spend a little while making some measurments. Some truck stops will have one, moving/storage companies will probably have one. Talk to the manager there and tell them what you want to do. Chances are since you don't need a certified weight, they will let you take your measurements for free.

Start off by weighing your truck with a full gas tank and maybe even the stuff you're going to carry in the bed. Remember, when the truck was new they didn't include all the stuff that gets loaded in afterwards (people, topper, hitch, tools, cookers, coolers, etc.).

Then weigh your trailer (by itself) with all of your stuff loaded on. Then weigh the tongue of the trailer (with the trailer wheels off the scales). Then weigh the entire rig in full competition trim.

At that point you now know for a fact what you GCWR, Tongue weight, and axle weights are and can make intelligent decisions about a weight distributing hitch and whether or not you are violating any of the specs.

Verifying that you are within the truck and trailer weight specifications will go a long, long way with your insurance company if something bad happens. If they find out that you violated say GCWR, then you open yourself up big time to liability.

One other thing is, Are ALL of the tires on your truck AND trailer rated for the weights your putting on them? Fastest way I can think of to get yourself on the side of a highway is to try to run on under-rated or underinflated tires.

Whether or not you need any of the extraneous equipment (tranny cooler, bigger radiator, wind deflector, etc.) is dictated by how your rig runs down the road. But just remember, NONE of those items will add ONE SINGLE POUND OF WEIGHT to your GVWR, GCWR, or any other specification. They may make towing easier or cheaper but they can't change the original specs.

Sorry, didn't mean to get long-winded but it really torks me when I see a rig on the highway that is very obviously way out of spec. I'l get off my soapbox now.

Russ

Rookie'48
05-03-2012, 11:27 AM
One other thing I should mention is that (in Iowa) you register your pickup for xxx tons. Most folks just go with the basic 3 ton registration and call it good, thinking that they will never haul anything over three tons. What the registered weight really covers is the total weight of the truck, trailer & load - your GVW in other words. If a cop wants to put your rig on a scale and you're not registered for that much weight it can get a tad pricey.

Ron_L
05-03-2012, 11:50 AM
Thanks to everyone for the replies! I found what I think is a winner tonight...."1999 Ford F-250 Super Duty XLT Supercab 6.8 10 Cyl. Electronic Fuel Injection Gasoline".

Does this sound sufficient? They were closed so I couldn't open the door to see the tag etc. Thanks again for all the help!


I found this...

http://pages.swcp.com/pcaskey/ford-towing.html

It looks like the only differential available then was 3.73. Towing capacity is shown as 13,100 and GCWR (combined weight of truck and trailer) is 20,000. The truck GVWR is listed as 8,800 and the trailer GVWR is 11,000, so even if both were loaded to the max you would be at 19,800.

It should be able to handle it without a problem.

Verify that it has the trans cooler. If it has a tow package (which I think is part of the Super Duty package) it should. You'll still need a good WD hitch with sway control. I have the Reese Dual Cam (http://www.reeseprod.com/content/products.aspx?lvl=2&parentid=1600&catID=1665%20&part=0) and it works great.

pat
05-03-2012, 11:59 AM
Thanks again all.

Ron thanks for digging that up. It does have a tow package and I will be getting the sway hitch/bars with the trailer.

jbrink01
05-03-2012, 12:02 PM
Don't worry about the V10, it will pull fine. It does get hungry (I got 9.4 last weekend in the Ozark mountains). If your gonna drive it every day a diesel may be worth it, but repairs do get pricey. DO go have the exhaust manifold bolts checked on that V10. They corrode easily and are a beotch to replace.

Balls Casten
05-03-2012, 12:02 PM
Congrats on the new trailer .. I hear its really nice!
I'd also check the nut behind the wheel on that truck. :-)

pat
05-03-2012, 12:13 PM
A nut behind the wheel?? Do you plan on driving this?

harold67wm
05-03-2012, 02:38 PM
I was looking through some old threads but became overwhelmed so thought I would just ask again.

I'm buying a 24' Forest River Work & Play toyhauler for competitions. The tag on the trailer has a GVWR of 11,010. Can I realistically and safely pull this with a 3/4 ton truck? A friend swears I need a v10 or diesel to pull it.

I am clueless when it comes to these things. Does the 11,010 account for an empty trailer or something different? :icon_blush: Thanks!!

Hello Pat;
Towing is what I do, and have for over 35 years... I run tow trucks...
With that said, if you can give some more "specs" on the truck, and actual wieght AND setup of the trailer, I can and will give you an actual and legal answer to your questions on it... Like I said, I have over 35 years in the towing and recovery business.

jbrink01
05-03-2012, 03:48 PM
Hey Harold - Since towing is what you do how do you feel about the plethora of 1/2 ton trucks I see towing trailers and campers, all using equalizer hitches, and all on the ragged edge of the GVWR? I have an F150 that will technically pull my 9500# comp rig, but I pull it with an F350 dually because I don't want it to push me into harms way during a panic stop.

Balls Casten
05-03-2012, 04:21 PM
The stamped tow weights on a vehicle have less to do with safety and more to do with warrantees.

BigBrad
05-03-2012, 09:29 PM
I pull a 22 ft cook trailer and a 26 ft bhss camper with my f 150 with a 5.4 l v8. No problem.

Gerrit_Boys
05-03-2012, 09:42 PM
30' 5th wheel with Lang 84 in tow behind ram 1500 from SD to TN and back. No problems 10.5 mpg. I'd like a bigger truck but its just not in the cards right now.

CivilWarBBQ
05-03-2012, 10:45 PM
A Lang's a pretty easy load to tow; moderate weight and very little wind resistance compared to an enclosed trailer. Your Ram should have no problem there other than MPG, but that's par for the course.

KC_Bobby
05-03-2012, 11:16 PM
Based on my truck ... don't buy a Dodge Hemi 2500 with a 3.73 rear end. If gas, make sure it has the 4.10 rear end.

With my set up 4x4, QC, short-bed is only rated to tow 8,800 ... and I think that number is generous. Sure it pulls that (our Q'chin weighed in at 9,000), but it sucked something horrible. Our current trailer weighs in around 7,000 with all our gear it's better but it's still working the engine and transmission. Depending on the terrain, I'll sometimes lock it out of OT to keep it from shifting (gas is still cheaper than a new transmission)

Gerrit_Boys
05-03-2012, 11:38 PM
A Lang's a pretty easy load to tow; moderate weight and very little wind resistance compared to an enclosed trailer. Your Ram should have no problem there other than MPG, but that's par for the course.

That Lang was behind the 5th wheel that was behind the Ram (2 trailers). Still a pretty easy tow though.

CivilWarBBQ
05-04-2012, 12:03 AM
Yike. Thats a different story for sure.

Can't say I'm a fan of double hitching, but good luck to you my friend.

Goddahavit
05-04-2012, 09:08 AM
Based on my truck ... don't buy a Dodge Hemi 2500 with a 3.73 rear end. If gas, make sure it has the 4.10 rear end.

With my set up 4x4, QC, short-bed is only rated to tow 8,800 ... and I think that number is generous. Sure it pulls that (our Q'chin weighed in at 9,000), but it sucked something horrible. Our current trailer weighs in around 7,000 with all our gear it's better but it's still working the engine and transmission. Depending on the terrain, I'll sometimes lock it out of OT to keep it from shifting (gas is still cheaper than a new transmission)


I agree, I had a 1/2 ton dodge with 3:55 rear end, sigh( I know I know) I wasnt towing when i bought it... and it sucked bad to tow with, it was listed at like 7500 and i wasnt towing 1/2 that and it sucked....

CBQ
05-04-2012, 10:06 AM
The stamped tow weights on a vehicle have less to do with safety and more to do with warrantees.

Ya, until you get in an accident.

The GCVWR (gross combined vehicle weight rating) of the trailer and the truck should never be over the rated combined weight amount for the truck or you risk a ticket and fines...even if the trailer ISN't loaded to capacity. The fact that it COULD be is enough to get you in trouble if you get pulled over. If you are in an accident, and you are over the rated weight, you will be ticketed and your insurance company might even decide not to pay the claim. (Insure the trailer, too, it's cheap. The tow vehicle coverage gives you liability coverage on your trailer, but not collision. Don't find that out the hard way.)

As another poster stated, transmission coolers, oil coolers, springs, brake controllers, etc. make it easier to tow, but they do not change the GCVWR.

I went with a small single axle trailer behind my RV because that is what it was rated for. I would feel better with a double axle trailer because it's safer in the event of a trailer tire blow out, but all the double axle trailers would put me over the rated amount.

RV people recommend at least 1 Horse Power on your engine for every 100 pounds of weight being moved. (vehicle and trailer) It's not a bad guide to make sure you have the power you need. Both of my tow vehicles have digital proportional braking controllers - highly recommended.

Balls Casten
05-04-2012, 12:39 PM
As another poster stated, transmission coolers, oil coolers, springs, brake controllers, etc. make it easier to tow, but they do not change the GCVWR.

I went with a small single axle trailer behind my RV because that is what it was rated for. I would feel better with a double axle trailer because it's safer in the event of a trailer tire blow out, but all the double axle trailers would put me over the rated amount.


Exactly what Im talking about. It is about warrantees not safety. Your GCVWR is about our government getting their taxes.

safety first!

PorkQPine
05-04-2012, 09:17 PM
I pulled a 10,000 lb trailer for a number of years all around the country in my other sport. I used a Chevy 3/4 ton with the Diesel and never lacked for power and at times out here in the west pulling over huge mountains. The best hitch is a Hensley and don't think that a regular weight dist. hitch is the same. With the winds we get and the trucks wizzing past, there is nothing like the security of a Hensley. No more white knuckles when running across the plains with huge side winds. Expensive, but so is the trailer, diesel and the family.

harold67wm
05-05-2012, 11:13 AM
Ya, until you get in an accident.

The GCVWR (gross combined vehicle weight rating) of the trailer and the truck should never be over the rated combined weight amount for the truck or you risk a ticket and fines...even if the trailer ISN't loaded to capacity. The fact that it COULD be is enough to get you in trouble if you get pulled over. If you are in an accident, and you are over the rated weight, you will be ticketed and your insurance company might even decide not to pay the claim. (Insure the trailer, too, it's cheap. The tow vehicle coverage gives you liability coverage on your trailer, but not collision. Don't find that out the hard way.)

As another poster stated, transmission coolers, oil coolers, springs, brake controllers, etc. make it easier to tow, but they do not change the GCVWR.

I went with a small single axle trailer behind my RV because that is what it was rated for. I would feel better with a double axle trailer because it's safer in the event of a trailer tire blow out, but all the double axle trailers would put me over the rated amount.

RV people recommend at least 1 Horse Power on your engine for every 100 pounds of weight being moved. (vehicle and trailer) It's not a bad guide to make sure you have the power you need. Both of my tow vehicles have digital proportional braking controllers - highly recommended.

I can also speak from experience AND Federal law... with 35+ years in the towing & recovery industry.
Actually tow what ever you want to tow with whatever you have... Do it in my area... I need the $$$$$$ from working the accident OR impound (from being illegal)...LOL!
Seriously, Federal law say you MUST maintain a minimum of at-least HALF of your front(steer) axle weight while towing and MUST be within axle ratings... There is a formula at you can that you can use for that!
First, you need to know the true axle weights of your truck and the axle ratings, then the wheel base and overhang of your truck... the wheel base is measured from center of front to center of rear axles, the overhang is measured from center of rear axle to hookup point...
In order to maintain 1/2 of steer weight, take 1/2 of your actual steer axle weight and multiply that by your wheelbase, then divide that number by your overhang, that is the MOST weight that you can apply to the hitch(Hookup point)... Are we done yet??? NO! The next thing is axle ratings... in particular, rear axle... so you need to know the rating of it... take the weight of the rear axle PLUS 1/2 the front axle weight PLUS the weight being applied to the "Hitch" ( tongue weight )... then you have GCVWRs to worry about...