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boogiesnap
04-26-2012, 06:55 PM
anybody know what that is?

just curious.

ModelMaker
04-29-2012, 11:36 AM
Curiosity got the better of me.

"15. I will use best possible efforts to donate to KCBS one free entry for a team, which will be used to promote our contest at the annual banquet and as part of the KCBS events at the banquet."

Is this what you were refering to? Looks pretty self explanitory.
It's on the KCBS site under "forms"
Ed

boogiesnap
04-29-2012, 05:13 PM
yes, that was it. after re-reading a couple times, though the wording is wonky, i think i understand what it means.

"i will donate to a team an entry to the KCBS banquet to represent...."

BBQchef33
04-29-2012, 05:26 PM
i know i will probably get lit up for this.. and maybe its just left over from the somewhat bad taste in my mouth from the mess with the AR as well as other stuff...

but an organizer pays...
350 bucks to get listed....
then $12 or $17 bucks per team... 50 team event.. $600/$850
plus 100 bucks per catagory over 4
plus reps expenses and a per diem

Sanctioning fees can run close to $1500 if not more for a 50 team event.

and on top of all that, they also want organizers to 'donate' a $200-$300, maybe $350 spot. That $$ comes out of the prize pool, or the contests funds. How about to be fair.. they reduce the sanctioning fee by one spot(or at least discount it) in return for an entry?

boogiesnap
04-29-2012, 06:08 PM
maybe i don't understand.

to what event is the organizer to do his/her best to donate an entry?

i assumed it was the annual banquet; does that entry flucuate in price?

really not looking to incite or flame, or "start up", just honestly curious.

Red Valley BBQ
04-29-2012, 06:35 PM
KCBS wants an organizer to donate an entry to the organizers event the following year so the KCBS can auction it off at the banquet.

I'm with the PooBah on this one. But you left one little thing out, the KCBS makes money from the entry being auctioned too.

boogiesnap
04-29-2012, 08:02 PM
i did not, then, understand.

sorry, i'm still green.

thanks for clarifying.

*edit* now i understand phil's post.

Smokedelic
04-29-2012, 10:08 PM
KCBS makes money from the entry being auctioned too.
I'm probably wrong here, but I thought the proceeds from the auctioned contest entries went to Kookers Kare, not KCBS.

boogiesnap
04-29-2012, 10:21 PM
I'm probably wrong here, but I thought the proceeds from the auctioned contest entries went to Kookers Kare, not KCBS.

if that's true it's a shame it is not more well known.

Jorge
04-30-2012, 06:05 AM
I'm probably wrong here, but I thought the proceeds from the auctioned contest entries went to Kookers Kare, not KCBS.

Speaking solely for myself, and not KCBS or the board...

I believe you are correct, and will confirm as soon as the office is open this morning.

I understand Phil's point as well. The fee structure for additional teams declines, as more teams are added. That info is available online in the organizers packet for those that would like to review it. I'll also point out that in the event that a contest adds 3-4 ancillary/additional categories they are essentially running two contests based on the potential number of turn ins. If that is spread over two days, traditionally Sat.-Sun. in the NE expenses to the organizer for Rep per diem and lodging etc. go up. KCBS never sees a nickel of that.

It's not my intent to light Phil up:becky: He's raised this issue with me privately, before, and that courtesy was appreciated. My response was that I'd be happy to look at alternatives if he could propose some that wouldn't be dead on arrival. It's important to me, but at the moment I have other issues on my plate that need attention first.

drbbq
04-30-2012, 10:28 AM
i know i will probably get lit up for this.. and maybe its just left over from the somewhat bad taste in my mouth from the mess with the AR as well as other stuff...

but an organizer pays...
350 bucks to get listed....
then $12 or $17 bucks per team... 50 team event.. $600/$850
plus 100 bucks per catagory over 4
plus reps expenses and a per diem

Sanctioning fees can run close to $1500 if not more for a 50 team event.

and on top of all that, they also want organizers to 'donate' a $200-$300, maybe $350 spot. That $$ comes out of the prize pool, or the contests funds. How about to be fair.. they reduce the sanctioning fee by one spot(or at least discount it) in return for an entry?


Maybe if these were donated entries were really respected and created new teams attending the contests it would be a good thing.

But anybody who has seen the raffle and ensuing frenzy of teams trading and low balling to get a deal on the entry for a contest THAT THEY WERE GOING TO ANYWAY knows that it's little more than a fundraiser. KCBS used to keep the money. If it now goes to Kookers Kare it should be promoted eas such.

If I were an organizer I would decline and use the donation within my own world.

Capn Kev
04-30-2012, 10:46 AM
Maybe if these were donated entries were really respected and created new teams attending the contests it would be a good thing.

But anybody who has seen the raffle and ensuing frenzy of teams trading and low balling to get a deal on the entry for a contest THAT THEY WERE GOING TO ANYWAY knows that it's little more than a fundraiser. KCBS used to keep the money. If it now goes to Kookers Kare it should be promoted eas such.

If I were an organizer I would decline and use the donation within my own world.

I agree with Ray and Phil. Either announce that all proceeds go to Kookers Kare, or get rid of the item on the application.

timzcardz
04-30-2012, 10:56 AM
Does the event "donating" the entry also have to pay the KCBS fees on that team for the competition, or does KCBS "donate" that part of it back?

MoKanMeathead
04-30-2012, 11:37 AM
The proceeds from the KCBS raffles DO NOT go to Kookers Kare...it ALL goes to KCBS. Kookers Kare has its own banquet and have thier own donated entries that do go to their causes. KCBS and Kookers Kare are completely separate organizations. That being said, KCBS does help Kookers Kare just like they help other not-for-profit organizations.

Jorge
04-30-2012, 01:10 PM
The proceeds from the KCBS raffles DO NOT go to Kookers Kare...it ALL goes to KCBS. Kookers Kare has its own banquet and have thier own donated entries that do go to their causes. KCBS and Kookers Kare are completely separate organizations. That being said, KCBS does help Kookers Kare just like they help other not-for-profit organizations.

MoKan Wayn is correct. What I was remembering was the gift basket raffle for Kookers Kare, that used to happen at the banquet before the KCBS banquet began to travel.

YankeeBBQ
04-30-2012, 01:36 PM
I'll probably step in it with this post ....

What's wrong with KCBS requesting that an organizer donate an entry ? Its in the contract. We don't ask organizers to give discounts or any special benefits to KCBS members I see this as a way to provide a benefit to KCBS members and a way to raise some funds that can go towards paying Team of the Year and some of the charitable things that KCBS does.

If you've ever been to a banquet then you know this is the highlight of the evening for most people. You can participate by either buying a raffle ticket and trying to win an entry or you can barter with a person who wins the entry to get a discount to a contest you want to attend.

Q Haven
04-30-2012, 02:19 PM
I'll also point out that in the event that a contest adds 3-4 ancillary/additional categories they are essentially running two contests based on the potential number of turn ins. If that is spread over two days, traditionally Sat.-Sun. in the NE expenses to the organizer for Rep per diem and lodging etc. go up. KCBS never sees a nickel of that.

It is my understanding as an occasional organizer that for an ancillary contest, KCBS gets $100 and $5 per team, per category. Well that is what they collected from me on top of my costs/expenses/etc for the KCBS four meat contest.

Scottie
04-30-2012, 02:53 PM
Solets say they sold $15,000 worth of raffle tickets at the banquet thisvyear. Where does that money go? may I suggest, to all the BOD members that *may* read this.. This would be another awesome way for the Philanthropy account to be funded.. Or we can use it for a 'slush fund' for Sam's like was used last year..... ;) OK, I just had to use the slush fund reference that was used last year by the BOD. Or maybe even the International Innitiative?

But it would be nice to give it back. Its not like a budgeted income line...

dmprantz
04-30-2012, 03:26 PM
I'll start out by saying that I am not, nor have I ever been, a contest organizer. I am not speaking directly on behalf of any, but as a competitor, I'll tell you my POV, FWIW:

What's wrong with KCBS requesting that an organizer donate an entry ? Its in the contract.

What's wrong is that you don't ask for it. You contractually obligate organizers to make a "best effort" to give it to you. As Phil said, it's an expense on top of the santctioning fees, insurance, rep expenses, and team fees that organizers already pay to KCBS. If you simply asked for donations, that would be one thing, but to "require" is something different...

We don't ask organizers to give discounts or any special benefits to KCBS members

Unless you're going to officially say that the KCBS specifically does this because you can't or don't give other bennefits to members, it doesn't matter what you don't do in this case. That's subterfuge. It matters what you do.

I see this as a way to provide a benefit to KCBS members

Correction for the sake of honesty: It's a way to help members who attend the banquet and those who know them. It doesn't help all members, nor is it really restricted to members only.

...a way to raise some funds that can go towards paying Team of the Year and some of the charitable things that KCBS does.

So are you saying that in addition to paying sacntioning fees, organizers are supposed to fund the KCBS' TOY program? Many (if not most) competitions already have proceeds going to charity. The other way of looking at this is that KCBS is taking away an organizers abillity to direct proceeds to his own charity.

Maybe since I'm not an organizer I shouldn't speak my mind on this issue, but it does trickle down and affect competitors: Competition entry or ice fees can go up and prize pools can go down as a result of this. I was not aware until this thread that organizers were "required" to make this donation, but I find it odd. At this point, based on this an other recent threads, organizers are expected to pay KCBS for sanctioning, teams pay KCBS for participating in sanctioned events, KCBS then wants another $250 out of the organizers pocket to fund, what, TOY and charity? And competitors are told that on top of all those fees and donations, they aren't "supporting KCBS" unless they pay $35 a year to receive marginal bennefits....and all this while KCBS is decreasing the services they provide to organizers and teams and delivering late products. Stop the bleeding please.

dmp

BBQchef33
04-30-2012, 03:52 PM
FYI.. Unless something has changed, the donated entry is not required, its 'encouraged'.

Heres the wording from my copy of the sanctioning agreement used in 2011.

I understand that Organizers are encouraged to donate to KCBS one “free” entry for a team, to KCBS, which will be used to promote our contest at the annual banquet and as part of the KCBS
events of at the banquet.

BBQchef33
04-30-2012, 03:57 PM
Maybe if these were donated entries were really respected and created new teams attending the contests it would be a good thing.

But anybody who has seen the raffle and ensuing frenzy of teams trading and low balling to get a deal on the entry for a contest THAT THEY WERE GOING TO ANYWAY knows that it's little more than a fundraiser. KCBS used to keep the money. If it now goes to Kookers Kare it should be promoted eas such.

If I were an organizer I would decline and use the donation within my own world.

I agree with Ray and Phil. Either announce that all proceeds go to Kookers Kare, or get rid of the item on the application.

Exactly. at 15K, that raffle is a cash cow for KCBS. With the mentality of 1 hit paying an entry fee, folks don't think twice about dropping a few hundred dollars on raffle tickets. With the size of banquet attendance, that's big $$ for Kcbs, generated by organizers donations from events they have already given Kcbs over a grand to sanction. Like I recommended before, with the trickle down effect of those donated entries I don't see it being a blow to KCBS wallet if the credited an organizer the value(or portion) of an entry fee back into the sanctioning fee. That credit will go alot further to the teams as something tangible at a contest such as a little bigger prize pool or team breakfast, free ice, etc..... than it would in the hands of KCBS.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

dmprantz
04-30-2012, 03:59 PM
I was going by the wording published earlier in the thread, which appears to be the actual 2012 wording currently in use. (http://www.kcbs.us/pdf/2012_Sanctioning_Application.pdf) The way I read it is that a "condition" of being sanctioned is to make "best reasonable efforts" to donate an entry. Sounds more of a reqirement than the encouragement made in 2011. Personally, considering that KCBS is asking organizers to give something of value to them for free so that they can make money after already charging a fee, I think it should be a request if anything. I guess I'm too scemantical.

dmp

Scottie
04-30-2012, 04:09 PM
I like that Phil ...

I think there were 15,000 tickets sold this year. That is a huge number and it keeps going up now that they allow tickets to be pre- purchased.

Muzzlebrake
04-30-2012, 04:17 PM
I don't see what the big deal is. The raffle does raise a nice chunk of cash is definatley a highlight of the banquet. Its not a mandatory thing and I don't think the value of a donated entry is going to make or break a contest's budget.

I can see Phil's point though, KCBS might want to consider giving back to those who make it the success it is. Does a contest get anything in return for a donation?

BBQchef33
04-30-2012, 04:34 PM
Nope.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

Slamdunkpro
04-30-2012, 05:29 PM
It seems the further KCBS sticks its hand out while reducing services they feel they are the only game in town or they are just daring organizers to look at other sanctioning bodies. A question for organizers would be at what point does the expense outweigh the value of the brand?

drbbq
04-30-2012, 07:15 PM
Or maybe even the International Innitiative?

I think that just happened but it remains a secret, so maybe they did use the raffle money to pay for it.

Gowan
05-01-2012, 02:15 AM
Maybe if these were donated entries were really respected and created new teams attending the contests it would be a good thing.

But anybody who has seen the raffle and ensuing frenzy of teams trading and low balling to get a deal on the entry for a contest THAT THEY WERE GOING TO ANYWAY knows that it's little more than a fundraiser. KCBS used to keep the money. If it now goes to Kookers Kare it should be promoted eas such.

If I were an organizer I would decline and use the donation within my own world.

You nailed this one Ray.

As an organizer, one simply cannot hand out free entries like Halloween candy! I prefer to keep it as local as possible, and make such entries non-transferable. Events I am associated with will not give free passes to KCBS unless we are absolutely required to do so. The entry raffle has always been a voluntary thing in the past, and I can think of no good reason for that to change.

Here's an idea: if KCBS has some overwhelming need to have entries to raffle off, how about KCBS buys an entry from each contest? It's about time the BoD stopped making extra demands on organizers who are finding it increasingly difficult to keep these contests in the black. Kill off the contests and it won't matter how many cooks and judges there are when there is nowhere for them to go.

BBQchef33
05-01-2012, 05:49 PM
2011 - "15. I understand that Organizers are encouraged to donate to KCBS one “free” entry for a team, to KCBS, which will be used to promote our contest at the annual banquet and as part of the KCBS events of at the banquet.

2012 - "15. I will use best possible efforts to donate to KCBS one free entry for a team, which will be used to promote our contest at the annual banquet and as part of the KCBS events at the banquet."


This is nothing but interesting.. in 2011, organizers had to "understand" that they are "encouraged" to give up a spot.

In 2012, We had to agree to " use best possible efforts".

i know its just symantecs, but someone had to sit and say 'lets change this".. and it unlikely the wording changed anyones perspective or decision making process... so if anything, it makes me curious as to the intent. Not thats its going to change anything..... but just curious. :confused:

btw...
A couple of folks asked me 'why not' give up the space.. well, in my case, with hard boundaries, we are limited on space. We can fit a fixed number of teams and no more. A contest that has unlimited space can just throw a spot into the raffle with no loss and drop the freebie team at the end of a row somewhere. In the cases of contests with limited real estate and $$$, we go down and entry fee, which is prize pool, contest funds, or the benefiting charity.

Gowan
05-01-2012, 09:55 PM
At every contest I've been involved in running the prize pool is funded directly from entry fees, so each free entry given means a decrease in the payout to cooks.

Jorge
05-02-2012, 09:16 AM
2011 - "15. I understand that Organizers are encouraged to donate to KCBS one “free” entry for a team, to KCBS, which will be used to promote our contest at the annual banquet and as part of the KCBS events of at the banquet.

2012 - "15. I will use best possible efforts to donate to KCBS one free entry for a team, which will be used to promote our contest at the annual banquet and as part of the KCBS events at the banquet."


This is nothing but interesting.. in 2011, organizers had to "understand" that they are "encouraged" to give up a spot.

In 2012, We had to agree to " use best possible efforts".

i know its just symantecs, but someone had to sit and say 'lets change this".. and it unlikely the wording changed anyones perspective or decision making process... so if anything, it makes me curious as to the intent. Not thats its going to change anything..... but just curious. :confused:

btw...
A couple of folks asked me 'why not' give up the space.. well, in my case, with hard boundaries, we are limited on space. We can fit a fixed number of teams and no more. A contest that has unlimited space can just throw a spot into the raffle with no loss and drop the freebie team at the end of a row somewhere. In the cases of contests with limited real estate and $$$, we go down and entry fee, which is prize pool, contest funds, or the benefiting charity.

Speaking solely for myself, and not KCBS or the board....

Changes were made to the document, regarding quiet hours. The Competitor Series sanctioning document had the same changes made as well as having the addendum that had previously been used added to create a separate sanctioning agreement.

Both documents were submitted to counsel for review prior to board approval. Some language was changed during that process to insure that the document achieved the desired result.

As the Chairman of the Sanctioning Committee I can tell you that I'm never told whether a contest organizer has given KCBS a free entry to their contest. I can tell you that I've never had any discussion with ANYONE regarding sanctioning a contest, or not, because a free entry was not donated. It is a non factor.

Again, speaking solely for myself....

For those that think that KCBS should be giving something back in exchange for a free entry, I'd be interested to learn what the proposed cost would be. KCBS sanctioned in excess of 400 contests last year. I don't know how many entries were donated. I don't know the total value of what those entries were. I don't know what percentage of return organizers would find acceptable. I don't have any way to determine what the potential cost of such policy would be at this point. I'm pretty confident that the proponents of such a policy don't either.

What I'm saying is that sometimes great ideas, turn out to be not so great when you sit down and work out the details. The idea is noted, and on my list.

dmprantz
05-02-2012, 09:31 AM
Changes were made to the document, regarding quiet hours.

I noticed that, and thank you.


For those that think that KCBS should be giving something back in exchange for a free entry, I'd be interested to learn what the proposed cost would be.

I'll start the ball rolling with a suggestion: Any organizer who donated an entry to the previous year's banquet will receive a $200 discount off of the current year's sanctioning fee(s). If you want to calculate the value to KCBS and its banquet attending members and then come back with a different number, that's fine, but start there.

dmp

Jorge
05-02-2012, 10:59 AM
I noticed that, and thank you.



I'll start the ball rolling with a suggestion: Any organizer who donated an entry to the previous year's banquet will receive a $200 discount off of the current year's sanctioning fee(s). If you want to calculate the value to KCBS and its banquet attending members and then come back with a different number, that's fine, but start there.

dmp

Speaking solely for myself, and not KCBS or the board...

Please explain to me how you determined that $200 was the right amount?

Do you know the collective value of entries donated? Do you know the individual value of those entries? In how many cases would KCBS be paying the organizer to accept a team?

And to be absolutely, perfectly clear, with no misunderstanding SPEAKING FOR MYSELF....

I'll consider your thoughts and suggestions, Daniel. As a customer of the organizers who are effectively our clients, I owe THEM that. When you become a member in good standing again I'll consider taking direction from you. I was elected to serve KCBS members, and clients.

I don't have time to debate or negotiate based on arbitrary numbers.

Sledneck
05-02-2012, 11:30 AM
Jorge, are we ever going to get a statement /opinion as Jorge the kcbs bod guy that we voted for?

BBQchef33
05-02-2012, 11:50 AM
well.... technically, if the donated entry is donated at the time of sanctioning then its not costing anything 'out pf pocket' if they discount the sanctioning fee by the cost of the entry. Instead of sending in $350 with the sanctioning agreement, and organizer would check the box for the donation, and send $350 MINUS whatever one entry fee is(up to $350 of course)..

It cant "cost" them money they never had. It would benefit KCBS by (probably) increasing the number of entries for the banquet, benefit the teams by getting shots at different contests and more raffle entries and it would benefit the organizers by not coming up short, and most important, it would be perceived as a 'value added" benefit.

Jorge
05-02-2012, 11:59 AM
Jorge, are we ever going to get a statement /opinion as Jorge the kcbs bod guy that we voted for?

Sure, call me and I'll be really direct and to the point:mrgreen:

You can lob bombs, or chime in with a funny and walk away from it. I don't have that luxury. You can propose an idea without looking at the long term effect and walk away looking like a genius. I had that same luxury, as a member. I don't now. I've got an obligation to the membership and an organization.

I've got no problem being accountable for my actions or decisions. I've also got no problem asking others to be accountable for theirs. The easy thing to do is to ignore all input, but that's not the way I operate.

Since we have a personal relationship, I'd appreciate a personal call since you chose to question my integrity in public. That seems fair to me. I get it, I made myself a public figure of sorts and I'm willing to deal with it. At the same time, I don't have a problem with asking anyone to step up and discuss issues personally if they feel that they have the freedom to question my personal integrity, motives, or methods.

dmprantz
05-02-2012, 12:07 PM
I'm rethinking this post....

Jorge
05-02-2012, 12:25 PM
I'm rethinking this post....

I read the first version. Shoot me some email at gmullins at kcbs dot us and I'll send you my cell #.

Scottie
05-02-2012, 12:40 PM
Why anyone would accept a nomination for the BOD is beyond me!!!!:shock:

I'll say it again. It is a thankless job. Although I try and thank our Directors whenever I am given the opportunity. I for one appreciate BOD members responding. Personally, for folks to attack or try to break down what your 'thoughts' are in a post just isn't right. Not a slam at Sled, cause I know Jorge has seen him in his underwear. So they are tight.

So thanks George, Steve, Dave, Jeff and Candy (hope I didn't miss someone) for posting. I might not agreevwith everything, but I appreciate it.

BBQchef33
05-02-2012, 12:41 PM
In Admin Voice:

And to add to jorges post... here we have BOD folks who are willing to engage and discuss issues with us..a privledge we have not had much of in the past.. its in OUR best interest to keep those conversations 1 - respectful and 2- productive, otherwise we may again find ourselves on the outside looking in, making assumptions and speculating without finding out the facts or real reasons why things happen.

BBQchef33
05-02-2012, 12:47 PM
Why anyone would accept a nomination for the BOD is beyond me!!!!:shock:

I'll say it again. It is a thankless job. Although I try and thank our Directors whenever I am given the opportunity. I for one appreciate BOD members responding. Personally, for folks to attack or try to break down what your 'thoughts' are in a post just isn't right. Not a slam at Sled, cause I know Jorge has seen him in his underwear. So they are tight.

So thanks George, Steve, Dave, Jeff and Candy (hope I didn't miss someone) for posting. I might not agreevwith everything, but I appreciate it.


Thankless jobs?? Jorge went from a moderator here, to a moderator in AZ(?? i think), to a KCBS BOD member? Now THATS a career path that needs some thinkin. :crazy::twitch:

:mrgreen:

Scottie
05-02-2012, 12:52 PM
Dayum Phil... I never thought of that.

motoeric
05-02-2012, 01:07 PM
Jorge,

If reciprocity is seriously something that you or the KCBS is interested in, then maybe something like 4 free memberships to the KCBS (to be given to someone in each category) that has never been a member before.

I imagine (and only imagine) that the cost wouldn't be be great. Pretty much the shipping of the Bullsheet. And it wouldn't detract from sales of memberships if it is going to someone new. It would hopefully also act as a recruitment tool by getting that person interested and possibly re-upping next year.

That would be a $140 value to the organizer without a significant cost to the KCBS and it might help with KCBS recruitment.

Eric

Jorge
05-02-2012, 01:32 PM
Jorge,

If reciprocity is seriously something that you or the KCBS is interested in, then maybe something like 4 free memberships to the KCBS (to be given to someone in each category) that has never been a member before.

I imagine (and only imagine) that the cost wouldn't be be great. Pretty much the shipping of the Bullsheet. And it wouldn't detract from sales of memberships if it is going to someone new. It would hopefully also act as a recruitment tool by getting that person interested and possibly re-upping next year.

That would be a $140 value to the organizer without a significant cost to the KCBS and it might help with KCBS recruitment.

Eric

Edit: Speaking solely for myself, etc.....

Lets exclude the $. Is it more beneficial to have members that have an investment in the organization? I can tell you that I was relieved, when I was seated, to learn that we did NOT have a lot of freebie memberships in place.

Your last point, has some punch and I'll pass that along to the Membership Committee. Even with minimal retention, that is a plus for KCBS. I suspect that organizers would view it differently however. I understand that!

Sledneck
05-02-2012, 06:48 PM
I would like to publicly apologize to Jorge. I was only busting his balls. I was way out of line and i took it to far. I am sorry for that. I forget sometimes that he's friend first BOD 2nd. I couldn't be happier with my decision to vote for him and I know he's doing a kick ass job for us. I also forget how folks could potentially use his words against him and I now totally understand his disclaimer.

boogiesnap
05-02-2012, 07:34 PM
admittedly i did a similar thing to jorge in another thread and still feel terribly about it. i got caught up in the debate and forgot who i was debating with.

like sled said, something to always bear in mind ladies and gentlemen, these guys and gals are our friends and brethren AS WELL AS BoD members. we should remember to treat them as such.

sorry for the hijack, but it's my thread anyway. :twisted:

*edit* i'm not suggesting anyone is being disrespectful or anything, i'm just saying it's POSSIBLE to get carried away.

Jorge
05-02-2012, 09:49 PM
Why anyone would accept a nomination for the BOD is beyond me!!!!:shock:

I'll say it again. It is a thankless job. Although I try and thank our Directors whenever I am given the opportunity. I for one appreciate BOD members responding. Personally, for folks to attack or try to break down what your 'thoughts' are in a post just isn't right. Not a slam at Sled, cause I know Jorge has seen him in his underwear. So they are tight.

So thanks George, Steve, Dave, Jeff and Candy (hope I didn't miss someone) for posting. I might not agreevwith everything, but I appreciate it.

I blame you and Plowboy. Sled cares, and that counts for a lot. I don't have a problem with folks having a passion for BBQ or what we do. I'll gladly deal with that rather than apathy!

I would like to publicly apologize to Jorge. I was only busting his balls. I was way out of line and i took it to far. I am sorry for that. I forget sometimes that he's friend first BOD 2nd. I couldn't be happier with my decision to vote for him and I know he's doing a kick ass job for us. I also forget how folks could potentially use his words against him and I now totally understand his disclaimer.

I may not have appreciated at the time, but I did understand it. It was you, just being you and calling it as you saw it. I appreciate and respect the honesty...no matter how much heartburn it may give me. Light me up personally next time. Then, after hearing my side, say whatever you want. I can't stop you, and it's your right. I'm not from NY or the island, but I get it and respect it. He stole my bed at the Royal one year, and I let that slide. Beyond that, he's and his family are welcome in our home any time. (cevapcici, just sayin)

admittedly i did a similar thing to jorge in another thread and still feel terribly about it. i got caught up in the debate and forgot who i was debating with.

like sled said, something to always bear in mind ladies and gentlemen, these guys and gals are our friends and brethren AS WELL AS BoD members. we should remember to treat them as such.

sorry for the hijack, but it's my thread anyway. :twisted:

*edit* i'm not suggesting anyone is being disrespectful or anything, i'm just saying it's POSSIBLE to get carried away.

If I didn't say it before, I'll say it now. I appreciate and respect you for saying that. I appreciate the passion you show. That counts a lot!

Sledneck
05-02-2012, 10:08 PM
Speaking for the bikini brief wearing contigent out there. We take no responsibility for any actions, thoughts, votes etc that Jorge may make during his term on the bod. I'm sure the years of therapy that he has received since the " incident" at the royal has reversed all the damage by now .

Matt_A
05-02-2012, 10:21 PM
As a first time organizer of a first time cook-off, I was happy to donate an entry to the Banquet. I don't know by what route it happened, but that donated entry wound up in the hands of the 2011 #3 TOY, Butcher BBQ and I'm happy to have him as the first team entered in my cook-off.

I can understand some of the points made about fees on top of fees, but this is a voluntary donation.The wording is "best effort"; if I thought that the single entry fee donation would irreparably damage Smokin' Up A Storm, I would not have donated it. In reality, there are ways to make up for that entry fee, and besides, it does help promote your event.

Gowan
05-02-2012, 10:25 PM
Speaking as one who purchase the sanctioning product from KCBS (i.e. an organizer), I don't see any reason to change the previous policy of voluntary participation in the contest entry raffle at the KCBS Banquet. Those who wish to may donate, those who don't abstain.

The downside I see in changing the language is that it implies that there is a consequence to not choosing to participate. I know from my own experience that groups setting up new events understood that they were expected to give a free entry, even though as start-ups they were already sorely taxed to keep their fledgling event out of the red.

I proposed the idea of compensation to organizers only as a response to the concept of making the donation of an entry mandatory. As long as this is not the case I believe the current arrangement regarding entries is fine, though it would be good if KCBS would provide a donation letter for the value of the entry to the organizer for tax purposes.

ModelMaker
05-03-2012, 07:58 AM
Wow, guess next time I'll just let my curiosity remain a curiosity (you know that will never happen).
What an interesting sampling of opinions....
As I see it, KCBS is asking for a chance to promote your contest and maybe raise a couple bucks for charitable acts.
You can do so or you can not do so, you pick.
Ed
P.S. I would like to see an actual determination of where the money is used.

Candy Sue
05-03-2012, 08:39 AM
As a first time organizer of a first time cook-off, I was happy to donate an entry to the Banquet. I don't know by what route it happened, but that donated entry wound up in the hands of the 2011 #3 TOY, Butcher BBQ and I'm happy to have him as the first team entered in my cook-off.

I can understand some of the points made about fees on top of fees, but this is a voluntary donation.The wording is "best effort"; if I thought that the single entry fee donation would irreparably damage Smokin' Up A Storm, I would not have donated it. In reality, there are ways to make up for that entry fee, and besides, it does help promote your event.

What Matt said! The free entry is a promotion opportunity for the contest too. I guarantee that many of the cooks reading this who've gotten entries end up cooking contests that they'd never normally consider doing. I'm doing 2 myself this year, Jeffersonville, IN and Plant City, FL. I got a free entry to Amelia Island this year and I wasn't intending to cook it again, but I will go back because of the free entry.

Slamdunkpro
05-03-2012, 09:43 AM
I think it's the language change in the sanctioning agreement that's causing concern as it has in essence gone from "it would be nice if...." to "you will".

Scottie
05-03-2012, 09:59 AM
What Matt said! The free entry is a promotion opportunity for the contest too. I guarantee that many of the cooks reading this who've gotten entries end up cooking contests that they'd never normally consider doing. I'm doing 2 myself this year, Jeffersonville, IN and Plant City, FL. I got a free entry to Amelia Island this year and I wasn't intending to cook it again, but I will go back because of the free entry.


I've cooked white a few states that I wouldn't have cooked if not for a free entry. I'm willing to travel a little though...