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View Full Version : KCBS renewal, Is it worth it


Fat Freddy
04-25-2012, 03:59 PM
Howdy all, this posting is not meant to slam anybody or the KCBS I got my renewal email today and it got me thinking. I am going to renew my membership no question about it. However maybe it is something to ponder in regards to retaining members and just a few observations, right or wrong it is how I perceive things.

The renewal for myself and my wife is $50 and so what do the two of us get for our $50. We do not live anywhere near a restaurant depot so going to one is not an option. We will only compete in a few sanctioned events and at those events there will be non KCBS teams as well. If Sams is partnering with KCBS why cant they offer a discounted membership or something. Even a $5 discount would go along ways to people

I am a certified judge but only judge a couple of contests a year so I will never be, nor do I want to be, a master judge. To be honest there are enough backyard contests in the area that want judges so bad the give gift certificates to hotels and waterparks. So judging non sanctioned has become more enjoyable to me and easier to drive to.

It seems especially in the past that the only thing our BOD seem to agree on is to disagree. Now I have read and listened and even talked in person to one of our newly elected BOD members and I believe in them and what they are trying to do. But I think everyone can agree there seems to be a lot of resentment towards the BOD. I think everyone has and continues to want to do what is best for BBQ but I cannot understand why there is so much anger towards the past and future. Now to my point on this I refuse to donate money to any political party because all I perceive the two parties doing is bickering, so if I am really not getting much for my KCBS membership but bickering(more so in the past nothing meant by that) why would I give my money?

Finally I know one of the "benefits" is the opportunity to go to the annual banquet. But from what I am understanding they have run out of food before everyone is served. So my thoughts, being on a fixed monthly income, is why on earth would I save for months to go to the banquet,pay hotel room, and not even be able to eat?

I DO get to have my team name registered with the KCBS for what thats worth. I get the Bullsheet with my membership, but to be perfectly honest I know more what is going on in KCBS from this forum and am way more up to date.

I am a member of the Iowa BBQ Society and its cost to me is $40 and with that I at least get a discount to a BBQ retailer and get notified of contests sanctioned or not.

Myself and my wife are not "bigtime" but I would like to think that we are important as members too, but I am really starting to wonder what is the benefit of being a member.

I will get off my soapbox now, and I AM going to renew these are just thoughts that popped in my head

mobow
04-25-2012, 04:10 PM
My thought is this. As for a personal benefit, very little except to be able to judge KCBS contest. There is the fact that KCBS sanctions contest for the cooks but you can cook in them as a member or not. I believe if you are cooking in them you should take it upon yourself to be a member but that is another thread.
I think the benefit boils down to this and this alone. Do you believe KCBS is promoting BBQ and helping it grow in a positve (for the most part) way. If yes help support it. If not, don't. Just my thoughts. keith

Parts_Guy
04-25-2012, 04:25 PM
My father and I had this same conversation. He sees a benefit in it and I do not. And to answer mobow's question of if I(or anyone) believes KCBS is promoting BBQ and helping it grow,my answer would be yes and no. Outside of us that compete and the judges, who knows what KCBS is or even stands for? I remember when I 1st took the judging class and was all excited. I was telling friends and anyone that would listen. They all gave me a look like I was speaking french when I mentioned KCBS.

buffalotom
04-25-2012, 04:36 PM
As a member of many different associations, mostly professional I look at membership in the KCBS as a positive way to help improve the industry. BBQ is growing in the country and if we can help it grow in a positive manner then let's do it. I also feel that my membership in this forum is without a doubt the best way to spend my money.
Parts Guy, your friends may not have known before about KCBS, but now they do. You are making a difference.

Smoke'n Ice
04-25-2012, 04:39 PM
The question becomes why would you not support an organization that strives to promote bbq contests all over the US and tries to level the playing field by administring rules and regs to cooks, judges and promoters. I know that I can become somewhat lambastic regarding rules and behind the scenes, backdoor deals, and feel that some of this is way past time to end. With that said, supporting it gives me the opportunity to voice an opinion, right or wrong, about how it should be done and, hopefully, help guide it in the future.

dmprantz
04-25-2012, 04:45 PM
The question becomes why would you not support an organization that strives to promote bbq contests all over the US...

If you compete in KCBS sanctioned contests, then you already do support the organization since your entry fee includes payment to KCBS. The membership enables you receive a few bennefits and opportunities, but by competing, you are financially supporting.

dmp

kihrer
04-25-2012, 04:45 PM
My feeling is that while KCBS may have its issues, what major organization doesn't. I believe that there are many more competition opportunities for us because of KCBS. I believe that more opportunities are on the horizon like what they did with the Sams Club. My bottom line is that "I" don't think competitive BBQ would be where it is today without KCBS.

Personally, I use the RD benefit so even if I felt they did nothing else for me, that would be a big enough benefit. I think I get good value for my membership dollar even though I think the board is too secretive and doesn't always "seem" to have the member's best interest in mind. I am hopeful that the new BOD members will help improve that. Overall, I like KCBS and will continue to renew.

Big George's BBQ
04-25-2012, 04:49 PM
I keep membership. Like others have said they have their issues. Some Brethren Members are on the Board I dio like their ideas so I want to support them They, KCBS, also are a major reason for so many Comps

Hot Grill on Grill Logan
04-25-2012, 04:55 PM
keep it going. Lots of reasons to support. The KCBS staff and website, to support the great reps that invest so much time into our passion, to advocate our sport.

CBQ
04-25-2012, 04:58 PM
KCBS has it's faults, but I always think supporting the organization is good for barbecue. There are other good sanctioning bodies out there, but KCBS has the largest reach. Up here in the Northeast, it's the only game in town.

Scottie
04-25-2012, 05:17 PM
I have a lifetime membership. It gives me the right to beotch and moan about the BOD. , even though I support them 100%. I just don't support how some things get done. I compete in an organization. I want what is right for the organization and for me as a member. Some of this stuff foes not fall under the "what is best for membership". I encourage folks to listen to the meetings. You can get a better understanding of the workings.

Would it be too early to start the El Jefe in 2015? Ooh boy, that might get me in trouble... ;)

Slamdunkpro
04-25-2012, 05:18 PM
Change happened at the last election. It may not ripple out as fast as some would like and it's going to take another election cycle and more people like the last elected candidates to step up, but it's here.

Fat Freddy
04-25-2012, 05:23 PM
I appreciate all the comments and my goal was just to give something to think about. I was actually a member of the KCBS before I competed or became a judge and the reason I did that was because I love what BBQ has done for me in a very short amount of time(Health issues had to get a hobby). I am not anti KCBS at all, I just kinda wanted to throw it out there as something to talk about.

This is what happens when I am unable to cook outside for a week due to an injury, my mind wanders to all the little things. But hey at least I am still thinking about BBQ

QueNivorous
04-25-2012, 05:31 PM
In my opinion KCBS provides a pretty goog framework for us to compete in and to us that's well worth $4 per month to support the organization!

ThomEmery
04-25-2012, 11:40 PM
$35...... A Deal
George will have this all fixed in a few months

Crash
04-26-2012, 06:49 AM
Personally, I've not been a fan of the old KCBS. Now that I'm living in a non-KCBS state, I definitely see the new concept atmosphere going on with the new elects. They have some great ideas and great motivation.

I'd sign up as a KCBS member again for sure...then again we have no state representation out here.

Bummer.

nukenight
04-26-2012, 12:04 PM
I like the Choice Hotels discount. In fact, I use that enough during the year it saves me more money than the family membership I pay every year.

CivilWarBBQ
04-26-2012, 01:15 PM
Sounds like you are getting a lot for a mere fifty bucks (which doesn't even amount to the cost of good meal for two at a decent restaurant). If you don't agree then stop attending KCBS events, refrain from commenting on discussions regarding the organization and move on. Simple.

Sorry to be blunt, but there it is.

dmprantz
04-26-2012, 01:24 PM
If you don't agree then stop attending KCBS events, refrain from commenting on discussions regarding the organization and move on.

If some one pays KCBS to attend KCBS events, why should that person stop because of an optional membership? If that person pays for a service, I think the person has a right to discuss the service purchased. Sorry to be repetitive, but just because you aren't a "member" doesn't mean you don't pay the society. If any one wants me to stop mentioning this, stop acting as if the only way to support the organization is to join. Alternatively convince the KCBS to make it free for organizers to get sanctioning and include as many teams as they want. Until then, you're hiding the Statue of Liberty behind a very small mirror.

dmp

Smokedelic
04-26-2012, 01:45 PM
If some one pays KCBS to attend KCBS events, why should that person stop because of an optional membership? If that person pays for a service, I think the person has a right to discuss the service purchased. Sorry to be repetitive, but just because you aren't a "member" doesn't mean you don't pay the society. If any one wants me to stop mentioning this, stop acting as if the only way to support the organization is to join. Alternatively convince the KCBS to make it free for organizers to get sanctioning and include as many teams as they want. Until then, you're hiding the Statue of Liberty behind a very small mirror.

dmp
The fact that an organizer pays KCBS to sanction a contest with a portion of the monies collected from entry fees does not mean that you, as a payer of the entry fee, are supporting KCBS. You aren't paying anything to KCBS, you are paying the organizer...and chances are great that you are paying that organizer because the organizer is paying KCBS. When an organizer's KCBS expenses go up(i.e. when a third rep is needed if the field is over 50 teams) does your entry fee go up? The answer is no, it doesn't.

Saying that you are supporting KCBS by paying an entry fee to a sanctioned contest is like saying that when you buy a can of soda at the convenience store, you are supporting the tobacco industry. KCBS members and sponsors support KCBS, non-members that compete at KCBS sanctioned contests just ride along for free.

dmprantz
04-26-2012, 01:51 PM
The fact that an organizer pays KCBS to sanction a contest with a portion of the monies collected from entry fees does not mean that you, as a payer of the entry fee, are supporting KCBS. You aren't paying anything to KCBS, you are paying the organizer...and chances are great that you are paying that organizer because the organizer is paying KCBS.

Are you aware that that the KCBS charges an organizer a flat per-team fee to sanction a contest? I think it's $12. That means that $12 out of every entry fee you pay for a KCBS sanctioned comp goes directly to KCBS. It is not a sunk cost nor a fixed cost. It's a variable, per-team cost. There are other costs too that start out sunk and grow as more teams enter such as the rep and sanctioning fees, but trust me: I pay KCBS every time I compete, wether the money goes through the rep's bank account or not.

I'm not saying that the cost shouldn't be there, and I'm not saying that people shouldn't be members, but to imply that you shouldn't compete in a KCBS competition or complain about services received at one because you aren't a member is just wrong to me when you pay for that privilege.

dmp

CivilWarBBQ
04-26-2012, 01:56 PM
If some one pays KCBS to attend KCBS events, why should that person stop because of an optional membership? If that person pays for a service, I think the person has a right to discuss the service purchased. Sorry to be repetitive, but just because you aren't a "member" doesn't mean you don't pay the society. If any one wants me to stop mentioning this, stop acting as if the only way to support the organization is to join. Alternatively convince the KCBS to make it free for organizers to get sanctioning and include as many teams as they want. Until then, you're hiding the Statue of Liberty behind a very small mirror.

dmp

Disagree.

Saying you are "supporting the organization" by consuming the service provided by KCBS as a cook at one of their sanctioned events is a mischaracterization.

However, it is human nature to gripe, as it is for those working to build something up to become annoyed with those trying to tear it down. Clearly we stand on opposite sides of the issue.

dmprantz
04-26-2012, 02:00 PM
Clearly, though FTR I am neither griping nor trying to tear anything down. To connect the dots on the soft drink analagy, I see this as Coca-Cola saying that in addition to buying their product, they want you to pay to join their fan-club. Most organizations give out loyalty memberships for free to keep bringing people back these days.

dmp

Smokin' Gnome BBQ
04-26-2012, 02:28 PM
as long as I compete I will continue to renew, I really like getting the bull sheet every month. I realize there is no perfect organization, just like there are 2 sides to a coin. I have been reading more and more of these types of threads to try and educate myself more and can honestly say I see some good points on either side.

landarc
04-26-2012, 02:38 PM
On a different point, would you want a BOD where there is no discourse or bickering, I understand that there are some big issues and questions, but, I see argument as a healthy challenge to just following the status quo. If KCBS is to stay relevant and maintain the success it has had in bringing more attention to competitive BBQ, than it must be discourse to make sure all points are considered.

I am one who does not believe KCBS repsresents or supports BBQ as a whole, but, they do the best job of representing and marketing competitive BBQ at a worldwide level of anyone out there right now.

Jorge
04-26-2012, 04:22 PM
The fact that an organizer pays KCBS to sanction a contest with a portion of the monies collected from entry fees does not mean that you, as a payer of the entry fee, are supporting KCBS. You aren't paying anything to KCBS, you are paying the organizer...and chances are great that you are paying that organizer because the organizer is paying KCBS. When an organizer's KCBS expenses go up(i.e. when a third rep is needed if the field is over 50 teams) does your entry fee go up? The answer is no, it doesn't.

Saying that you are supporting KCBS by paying an entry fee to a sanctioned contest is like saying that when you buy a can of soda at the convenience store, you are supporting the tobacco industry. KCBS members and sponsors support KCBS, non-members that compete at KCBS sanctioned contests just ride along for free.

Speaking solely for myself, and not for KCBS or the board....

Bingo. You nailed it. KCBS is licensing intellectual property and providing a service to the organizer. Services that should reasonably be expected should end after the contest with a reasonable period for comments, questions, or complaints.

As a member of the board I'll look at everything, and take it into account. If you aren't a member, you wait your turn unless your concern is blatant and egregious if your complaints are continuous. I'll hear everybody willing to speak, but unfortunately it can't be on their terms.

dmprantz
04-26-2012, 04:35 PM
Speaking solely for myself, and not for KCBS or the board....

George, I agree with a majority of what you said, with the differences to be saved for another venue. My main point is that to state that those who compete without being members are along for a free ride is an uninformed, untrue, and condescending point of view. I think that rather than calling those people free-loaders, members and evangelists should try to help the organization's staff and BOD espouse and enhance the bennefits, and not remove them.

dmp

Fat Freddy
04-26-2012, 06:22 PM
Sounds like you are getting a lot for a mere fifty bucks (which doesn't even amount to the cost of good meal for two at a decent restaurant). If you don't agree then stop attending KCBS events, refrain from commenting on discussions regarding the organization and move on. Simple.

Sorry to be blunt, but there it is.


I realize when stuff is written over the internet things are not always meant the way they sound. So I wont take that as anything against me but I will try to respond a bit tactfully. I sure dont mind being disagreed with and actually I had hoped I would be, but for the positives.Keep in mind I AM a member, have been a member and plan on continuing to be a member, my general question is why?

I will start with being on a fixed income, we live on my $899 a month check. I dont care what someone else make cuz it aint any of my business but going out to eat to celebrate anything usually involves the china buffet and $12.86 for 2 and we may do that every couple of months. Back on point so any and every expense we have we need to justify to live within our means.Our insurance renews every year and yes I want to know is it worth it to me or would it be worth it to go in a different direction.

If members from a different sanctioning body IBCA,FBA as examples though I dont know the rules to them but any differing BBQ group are trying to justify whether they should join the KCBS or not, I feel this posting in general is beneficial to others showing the positives but to be honest CivilWarBBQ by the way you responded I almost feel like it is being said "just do it and dont question anything otherwise we dont want you". If that was not your intent I apologize, but I can honestly say I am not that person nor will I ever be... I question everything.

I believe big time in our newly elected BOD and I believe they do want to change things, but to be honest I dont believe previous or even other current member of the board were out to mess the membership around. But if you talk to an "outsider" it does seem to be alot of B.S.

I am willing to bet that the brethren that know me or have met me,know I am a lover of anything and everything bbq, but there are times people have to make sacrifices and I simply was trying to justify this expense. While $50 may not be much to some it is a good portion of our income. I hope I am not coming across wrong because I actually do want to be disagreed with but as a member I also feel I have the right to question stuff and as long as I am an active member and actually even VOTE I have the right to biotch once in a while.

Cheers and alls good on my end

CivilWarBBQ
04-26-2012, 11:35 PM
If members from a different sanctioning body IBCA,FBA as examples though I dont know the rules to them but any differing BBQ group are trying to justify whether they should join the KCBS or not, I feel this posting in general is beneficial to others showing the positives but to be honest CivilWarBBQ by the way you responded I almost feel like it is being said "just do it and dont question anything otherwise we dont want you".

On the contrary - you posed the specific question of "Is what's in it for me worth the price KCBS is asking?". That's a simple question of how you value the benefits of your membership, which I think you did a fair job of detailing in your original post. My response was that you should make up your own mind and act accordingly. Nobody else can answer that question for you.

It has nothing to do with whether myself or or anybody else thinks a KCBS membership is a good buy or not. You need to make your personal decision as a consumer. To go back to the previous analogy, it doesn't matter to me what brand of soda you buy, or if you buy any at all. That's your personal preference and right in a free marketplace. I certainly don't consider myself part of a "we don't want you" clique. KCBS isn't the Masons; anybody who wants to participate is free to join (or let their membership drop) anytime they wish.

If I was abrupt in my reply it was because I was put off base by a post that was titled as a question but in substance was essentially a statement. My bad for responding to the question. I should have re-evaluated when I reached the soapbox comment and hit the "Back" button.

Again, let me sum up by saying: "Do whatever seems right to you."

Fat Freddy
04-27-2012, 12:10 AM
Fair enough CivilWarBBQ and we are all good. Each and all of us have opinions and are not afraid to share ours :mrgreen:

Hot Grill on Grill Logan
04-27-2012, 12:26 AM
"Ask not what kcbs can do for you, but what you can do for the kcbs"

Scottie
04-27-2012, 09:24 AM
I realize when stuff is written over the internet things are not always meant the way they sound. So I wont take that as anything against me but I will try to respond a bit tactfully. I sure dont mind being disagreed with and actually I had hoped I would be, but for the positives.Keep in mind I AM a member, have been a member and plan on continuing to be a member, my general question is why?

I will start with being on a fixed income, we live on my $899 a month check. I dont care what someone else make cuz it aint any of my business but going out to eat to celebrate anything usually involves the china buffet and $12.86 for 2 and we may do that every couple of months. Back on point so any and every expense we have we need to justify to live within our means.Our insurance renews every year and yes I want to know is it worth it to me or would it be worth it to go in a different direction.

If members from a different sanctioning body IBCA,FBA as examples though I dont know the rules to them but any differing BBQ group are trying to justify whether they should join the KCBS or not, I feel this posting in general is beneficial to others showing the positives but to be honest CivilWarBBQ by the way you responded I almost feel like it is being said "just do it and dont question anything otherwise we dont want you". If that was not your intent I apologize, but I can honestly say I am not that person nor will I ever be... I question everything.

I believe big time in our newly elected BOD and I believe they do want to change things, but to be honest I dont believe previous or even other current member of the board were out to mess the membership around. But if you talk to an "outsider" it does seem to be alot of B.S.

I am willing to bet that the brethren that know me or have met me,know I am a lover of anything and everything bbq, but there are times people have to make sacrifices and I simply was trying to justify this expense. While $50 may not be much to some it is a good portion of our income. I hope I am not coming across wrong because I actually do want to be disagreed with but as a member I also feel I have the right to question stuff and as long as I am an active member and actually even VOTE I have the right to biotch once in a while.

Cheers and alls good on my end


I'll personally pay your dues. Send me a PM and I'll cover. I appreciate your love for BBQ and I also want to show that folks do believe. Not doing this for ribbons or nothing like that. I can, so I will.

Thanks and send me your I forgot and Ill call the girls in the office.

Pay it forward.

Jorge
04-27-2012, 10:01 AM
Fair enough CivilWarBBQ and we are all good. Each and all of us have opinions and are not afraid to share ours :mrgreen:

Speaking for myself, and as a member of the board...

I truly appreciate the time you took to contact me directly to make sure that I understood your issue and position. It wasn't necessary, but it was greatly appreciated personally.

If Scottie doesn't get you taken care of, I will.

Smokin' Gnome BBQ
04-27-2012, 10:49 AM
Scottie and Jorge..you guys rule..talk about being a brother!

sorry to highjack, that just impressed the heck out of me!

Parts_Guy
04-27-2012, 11:04 AM
I agree...Scottie and Jorge, class acts in my book.

boogiesnap
04-27-2012, 11:22 AM
yup, class acts both. :thumb:

Big Poppa
04-27-2012, 01:20 PM
I like KCBS. I really do. It's not hip to say your like them...but I think that if members didnt belong it would cost more to compete....that $12 that people feel gives them ownership would go up.

I get $35 worth EVERY year and then some.

I know what to expect and really appreciate the time the board spends even if I have a differing view.

dmprantz
04-27-2012, 01:42 PM
I think that if members didnt belong it would cost more to compete....that $12 that people feel gives them ownership would go up.

I feel this is directed toward me, so I'll point out that I never claimed $12 gave me "ownership." I feel that paying $12 to KCBS for a competition gives me the right to say that I paid KCBS to compete in a sanctioned competition and I have no other financial obligations to support them just because I competed. Again, I've never said that people shouldn't join or maintain memberships.

As for your belief that the price would go up, that may or may not happen, but considering that KCBS is a NPO which has money in the account, I honestly do not believe such an increase is imminent.

dmp

motoeric
04-27-2012, 02:53 PM
It seems as though there are some (for good reason!) strong advocates of the KCBS posting here.

For those that would consider themselves big supporters, is there a point at which you would feel that they no longer deserve your support or is there an act that they may take that would convince you to not re-up out of protest?

Eric

Scottie
04-27-2012, 03:30 PM
I guess i could answer that Eric. I am a lifetime member. If I am competing, judging, repping or organizing, I'll be pro-KCBS. They are the gold standard. Do I disagree with how some things happen with the BOD? Yes. Just as i am sure that some of the Directors don't believe or support every motion that is out before them.

Fat Freddy
04-27-2012, 04:07 PM
Jorge and Scottie, thanks for the offer guys but I can pay my membership and have planned on it. This really wasnt meant as a statement on my finances but more as a rhetorical question. I have been planning this money for a bit so it actually is already in the lockbox in the bank so it wouldnt get "accidentally" touched. Saying that though I think the two of you, as well as many others that have commented or PMed me, are the main reason I can easily justify the expense. THE PEOPLE!!! One suggestion made would be to do a single membership instead of family, however my wife loves judging and being a member as much as me and I wont take that from her. She just doesnt like to biotch about bbq as much as me, EVERYTHING else yes but not bbq.

Again thanks for the offer guys but my membership will be renewed without any problem

Scottie
04-27-2012, 04:50 PM
I was wanting to do it to show you the kind of folks that are in BBQ. I compete to win, but I also know there are bigger things in life than winning BBQ contests. My cause in life is to help people. So for me it wasn't about money and I knew you weren't trying to say that.

My offer still stands and I still would like to assist. Although I think some little fairy has already found e that for you.

Good luck!

Scottie
04-27-2012, 05:18 PM
Sorry, please delete Double post. Fat fingers.

Thanks Mods

RangerJ
04-27-2012, 05:46 PM
I like KCBS. I really do. It's not hip to say you like them...but

I get $35 worth EVERY year and then some.


X2.

I'm also an IBCA member. Soon to be a Texas Gulf Coast Member and have decided after meeting reps, judges and board members from all these organizations I'll be a member of any organization I cook in.

I don't have to like everything about any of them, but long before I came along to cook, folks formed these groups and worked ( and are still working) dilligently to put on events that allow us to enjoy our hobby with some modicum of what we perceive as fairness and organization.

For me, there is value in that.

Jorge
04-27-2012, 05:56 PM
Jorge and Scottie, thanks for the offer guys but I can pay my membership and have planned on it. This really wasnt meant as a statement on my finances but more as a rhetorical question. I have been planning this money for a bit so it actually is already in the lockbox in the bank so it wouldnt get "accidentally" touched. Saying that though I think the two of you, as well as many others that have commented or PMed me, are the main reason I can easily justify the expense. THE PEOPLE!!! One suggestion made would be to do a single membership instead of family, however my wife loves judging and being a member as much as me and I wont take that from her. She just doesnt like to biotch about bbq as much as me, EVERYTHING else yes but not bbq.

Again thanks for the offer guys but my membership will be renewed without any problem

It's safe to say that you can hold on to that $50, or allocate it elsewhere. If it's a buffet, do some damage for Scottie and myself...both of us...at the same time!:shocked: I don't want to have to get talk to someone in the office about it, because I've given my word that I won't try to run the office.

Thanks for your interest and participation. As you said, it IS about the people. I hope to have the opportunity to meet you one of these days!

Scottie
04-27-2012, 08:40 PM
Looks like a Chicago care package is heading to TX....

Podge
04-28-2012, 04:01 PM
After further thoughts and reading these posts, I had a change of heart and paid my membership dues.