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Smoke Ring
04-16-2012, 04:30 PM
From the KCBS board of director's minutes:

MOTION: Candy Weaver - I move that the Accuconference recording of closed session meetings be discontinued and all past recordings of all KCBS meetings be discarded.



MOTION: Candy Weaver - Further, I moved that all future AccuConference recording of board meetings made be eliminated after the completion and posting of the MP3 recording of the meeting on kcbs.us Motions tabled until next month.

MOTION - Steve Farrin: I move that any and all BOD members that desire access to the AccuConference recordings of past meetings be given access. Seconded by George Mullins, a roll call vote was requested. The vote was as follows:


(5) Ayes: Arlie Bragg, Dave Compton, George Mullins, Steve Farrin, Jeff Stith
(6) Noes: Mike Budai, Randy Bigler, Tana Shupe, Mark Simmons, Paul Kirk, Candy Weaver
(1) Abstained: Mike Lake


With 5 ayes, 6 noes, and one abstaining, the motion failed.


What's in those recordings of closed sessions that is so incriminating that the board not only wants to destroy them but also prevent the new board members from even listening to them?

Smokedelic
04-16-2012, 06:59 PM
Arlie may be the only one who can answer that question.

Sledneck
04-17-2012, 08:32 AM
Not suprised at all

bover
04-17-2012, 09:03 AM
I'm actually kind of surprised the meetings were ever recorded in the first place. It's my understanding that a nonprofit is not obligated to do so in any way, shape or form. Sounds to me like this is just a good housekeeping measure.

Maybe I'm just naive, but why would we assume that this motion has anything to do with covering things up?

timzcardz
04-17-2012, 09:48 AM
So, Board members are denied access to Board records?

I wish I could say it was unbelievable.

Candy Sue
04-17-2012, 10:06 AM
My motions are tabled again for next month. Motion #3 is denied pending finalization and execution of Non-disclosure Agreements by all KCBS board members and office staff.

Recordings go back to 2005, board meetings and committee meetings. These should never have been retained, IMO. Listen to the mp3 if you want details.

Candy Sue, writing on my own behalf and not reflecting in any way more than my own opinion.

Sledneck
04-17-2012, 10:26 AM
My motions are tabled again for next month. Motion #3 is denied pending finalization and execution of Non-disclosure Agreements by all KCBS board members and office staff.

Recordings go back to 2005, board meetings and committee meetings. These should never have been retained, IMO. Listen to the mp3 if you want details.

Candy Sue, writing on my own behalf and not reflecting in any way more than my own opinion.

You make your typical disclAimer but yet your opinion is reflected in your vote.

Smoke'n Ice
04-17-2012, 10:49 AM
If you read her statment which, I believe is in English, she stated it was her own opinion and that is the way she voted, so what is wrong with that?

drbbq
04-17-2012, 10:53 AM
But as long as we have this historical record why would we destroy it now? I understand the Non-disclosure but I don't understand destroying our legacy. Like it or not KCBS is an amazing story and maybe someday a competent author will write the book. And when it happens those type of archives will be really valuable. The stuff that is truly proprietory can then be easily worked around.

dmprantz
04-17-2012, 11:09 AM
Motion #3 is denied pending finalization and execution of Non-disclosure Agreements by all KCBS board members and office staff.

Considering what has happened in the past, it makes perfect sense to me to not release priviledged information until there is at least an NDA in place to protect it. That said, since you brought it up, I'm curious: Once all NDAs have been executed, would you vote to allow current board members to hear the recordings of past executive sessions before they vote whether or not to delete them?

dmp

Leatherheadiowa
04-17-2012, 11:14 AM
What would they do to me if I had downloaded and save EVERY mp3 that had been posted? What is stopping someone from continuing to do that? The KCBS transparency is looking very sketchy at the moment. I appreciate the four new board members doing what they said they would. That says alot for the rest.
Sadly this is BJ writing on my own behalf, stating what a great deal of the membership are thinking.

dmprantz
04-17-2012, 11:22 AM
What would they do to me if I had downloaded and save EVERY mp3 that had been posted? What is stopping someone from continuing to do that?

It's very possible that I am misreading the motions above (I haven't listened to the MP3), but it appears that what was suggested was to delete the original recordings and retain the MP3. I'm not aware of the format of the originals, but that position makes sense to me considering that it may cost money and take up considerable space to retain the originals.

That said, while I would welcome audio archives, any one doing that without the KCBS blessing should be careful. I'm sure there is a copyright and relatively limmited grant (or there soon will be) associated with downloading the published MP3s.

dmp

Candy Sue
04-17-2012, 02:42 PM
Daniel's got this right. MP3s are public record. I've got a bunch of them on my ipod. I figure it's like storing back issues of the Bullsheet, but none is used for anything but my own personal use.

Scottie
04-17-2012, 03:52 PM
I'd rather be able to see the disclosures. That is way more telling of who has the magic keys.

drbbq
04-17-2012, 05:50 PM
Same old same old.

drbbq
04-17-2012, 05:50 PM
I'd rather be able to see the disclosures. That is way more telling of who has the magic keys.

I'd like to see the 1099s.

Leatherheadiowa
04-17-2012, 06:03 PM
The city council where I live have these same issues and the more they say they aren't hiding anything their actions sure reflect otherwise. It is human nature to want what you can have, and when humans don't get that then they assume the worst, and until shown otherwise they won't believe anything else. If this were any other organization or charity people would be mad, but to be perfectly honest, the 15k+ membership should be outraged but they aren't because most could care less because they maintain a membership so they can: be a judge, attend a CBJ class, cook a Sam's Club event, get a discount on something, get a sticker, or they are just habitual members.
I have been involved with charities and fraternal organizations that would have their members crying foul, and the board would take a look at their actions and see if what they were doing really went with the mission, and if they weren't they may change their ways.
You would never see the St. Jude's Children's Charities, MDA, Shriner's Hospital, Wounded Warrior Fund, Operation Barbeque Relief, or any other philanthropic organization work so hard to hide and conceal things. Why KCBS. I personally know a handful of the BOD members and I would say that the one's I speak with actually welcome transparency and an open organization.
I love barbeque, the people, and the fellowship but that one evening back in the fall of 1985 I would guess that nobody ever imagined the size and magnitude of the KCBS or the influence it would have on barbeque nor would they have thought that keeping members informed and apprised of happenings would need to be so covert.

WineMaster
04-18-2012, 08:09 AM
(5) Ayes: Arlie Bragg, Dave Compton, George Mullins, Steve Farrin, Jeff Stith
(6) Noes: Mike Budai, Randy Bigler, Tana Shupe, Mark Simmons, Paul Kirk, Candy Weaver
(1) Abstained: Mike Lake

I think your gonna see alot of this KC......BS

roksmith
04-18-2012, 10:08 AM
The closed sessions should continue to be recorded and archived indefinably. Convert them to mp3 and store them. The KCBS board should be held responsible for every decision they make in open or closed sessions. Without recordings, there is no proof of who did or said what. Should a questionable decision be made in a closed session and for some reason a court case ensues, a recording of the meetings would be the only real proof of what happened.
If you don't want what you said recorded, don't say it.
The archives of every meeting ever held.. open or closed.. should be kept for as long as the club exists and then some.

JimmyDAL
04-21-2012, 05:36 AM
Why did Mike Lake abstain? BTW, thanks for the 4 votes for transparency I for one surely appreciate it. You can put that in the minutes.

Diva
04-23-2012, 11:57 AM
I finished listening to the April BOD meeting last night.....good grief. The vote on this sounded (to me), pre-orchestrated.

drbbq
04-23-2012, 03:12 PM
I finished listening to the April BOD meeting last night.....good grief. The vote on this sounded (to me), pre-orchestrated.

Ya think? LOL!

Leatherheadiowa
04-23-2012, 05:07 PM
I spoke with a board member this weekend and while he explained things from his side I am still not convinced that the new board members are in for a battle. Enough excuses about having to conceal legal, discipline, and purchasing issues and work on rules, member retention, member benefits, and barbeque!

drbbq
04-24-2012, 09:09 AM
My motions are tabled again for next month. Motion #3 is denied pending finalization and execution of Non-disclosure Agreements by all KCBS board members and office staff...........

As long as you brought up the Non-disclosure agreements here I have a question. Are these specifically about the Executive Session recordings or will this limit what board members can speak about in other areas?

Jorge
04-24-2012, 11:35 AM
I spoke with a board member this weekend and while he explained things from his side I am still not convinced that the new board members are in for a battle. Enough excuses about having to conceal legal, discipline, and purchasing issues and work on rules, member retention, member benefits, and barbeque!

Speaking solely for myself, and on KCBS or the board....

My email isn't classified. gmullins at kcbs dot us

I'd be happy to discuss the issue with you, and if you disagree you can feel free to let the world know. If YOU have concerns or issues, I'd prefer to have the opportunity to offer my opinion before you draw conclusions about my dedication or motives in public.

I get it, I'm somewhat of a public figure now and understand that criticism comes with the job. If your concerns are with my actions or lack thereof I'd think that addressing them to me first would be more effective, rather than waiting for me to make the time to read this forum and find your post.

Congrats on your election to the Iowa BBQ Society BoD. According to some friends there Iowa BBQ rules the world:wink:

Leatherheadiowa
04-24-2012, 12:33 PM
George, I believe that you and the three other new board members have done all you can. I can't place any blame on you four guys. I just hope that you gus keep going to bat for us. The stalemate has to be irritating to say the least. I guess it is time to accept the organization for what it is. George, Jeff, Dave, & Steve, keep up the good fight and know I am not out to beat down the four of you when I know you are all doing your best!

Jorge
04-24-2012, 01:10 PM
George, I believe that you and the three other new board members have done all you can. I can't place any blame on you four guys. I just hope that you gus keep going to bat for us. The stalemate has to be irritating to say the least. I guess it is time to accept the organization for what it is. George, Jeff, Dave, & Steve, keep up the good fight and know I am not out to beat down the four of you when I know you are all doing your best!

Again, and I understand that some find this to be tiresome...

Speaking solely for myself, and not KCBS or the board.....

I've actually been surprised on several votes. The results were not what I expected. That has been encouraging.

I'm not directing the following at you.... I hope it doesn't become a fight or battle. There are and will be issues where there is disagreement. Some issues have been tabled so that more thought or work can be directed to an issue. If a consensus can't be reached, it's time to vote and then move on to the next issue. That's the way a board should work.

In the past that hasn't always been the case, based on meetings I've listened to. As a member, I encourage you and others to let me know what your concerns are directly. My KCBS email lands on every device I own that's capable of checking it. Let me know what's important to you, and do it as soon as possible. It benefits everyone if the opportunity is there to learn about the issue. If the issue isn't known, I can't address it.

There are things that I can't discuss, and I hope that members will understand that. Beyond that, I'll continue to do everything that I can to be as open and accessible as possible.

Scottie
04-24-2012, 01:53 PM
There was a vote that went against 'the block' the last meeting. Honestly, I believe that it was the right way to vote. I also liked it in the past when certain BOD members (who shall go nameless) weren't paying attention and would vote the wrong way. The groans were entertaining... ;)

Rookie'48
04-24-2012, 07:29 PM
Speaking strictly for myself, I'll say this up front:

I'm not aware of any "block" voting or having votes decided on in advance. There's going to be times that I disagree with the other new BoD members - hell, we disagreed on some stuff before we even thought about running as individuals or as a group.

And while others might or might not agree with me, I'm still in favor of some things being in executive session. The main thing to remember is that no motions are voted on in Executive Session - discussion, yes - but the voting is out front in public and recorded in the minutes.

Diva
04-24-2012, 10:12 PM
The portion that I thought was orchestrated was Mike Lake abstaining which leaves the President to cast the deciding vote.

arlieque
04-24-2012, 10:21 PM
The portion that I thought was orchestrated was Mike Lake abstaining which leaves the President to cast the deciding vote.

I will add to what Steph said and that is the vote doesn't matter at all. Of course I could tell you why but then the President would be mad, she is trying to shut us all up.

Candy Sue
04-25-2012, 09:07 AM
OMG! The president is trying to be the (bum, bump, BUM) Dicktator of KCBS...

Give me a break. I just do it for the money, everybody knows that... Just like everyone knows that certain board members are mind-readers and that everything is an orchestrated plot.

Geesh!!! Go cook something else, maybe it'll be edible.

This is my opinion, only my opinion, and my REAL opinion is that people who really want to run things deserve to. 9 more meetings...

Plowboy
04-25-2012, 09:24 AM
I wish I had half the time to get my undies in a bunch like some of you all do.

drbbq
04-25-2012, 09:31 AM
Candy can you answer my question about the Non-disclosure? It's an easy way to stop the rumors.

As long as you brought up the Non-disclosure agreements here I have a question. Are these specifically about the Executive Session recordings or will this limit what board members can speak about in other areas?

Smoke'n Ice
04-25-2012, 09:49 AM
I have been re-reading this and other posts and have a simple question.

Why do the Current Board member not have a right to ALL documents and information pertaining to the operation of the organization?

The reasoning for this question is, when I was on the PNWBA board, we had similar issues with hidden records and agenda by past and current board members and we sought a legal opinion on the subject. It was stated that withholding this information is illegal and the party or parties could be sued and the D&O insurance would not cover the cost of the suit if the party was withholding the information. Is MO or KS law any different? Has no one asked the question of the legal group? Was this question asked and that is why Mike Lake abstained because of the answer?

I have also heard that the disclosure being offered prevents any board member, past or present, from discussing any aspects of the BOD or organization whether the actions took place in open session or closed session. I hope this is not true!!

Candy Sue
04-25-2012, 10:05 AM
Be glad to, Ray. The non-disclosure agreement will be signed by directors and staff of KCBS. In my opinion, it should cover all discussions on all topics held in closed sessions present and past, live or recorded. It will cover matters that are "proprietary" to KCBS that only the staff know that shouldn't be in open discussion with anyone who doesn't need to know. . It's an extension of fiduciary responsibility. When someone is elected as a KCBS director, they have a duty to KCBS. Many times situations arise where personal motives, desires, ambitions and relationships conflict with that first duty to KCBS. A nondisclosure agreement is a physical reminder of personal responsibility to KCBS.

Jorge
04-25-2012, 10:25 AM
I'll add something else...

My attorney has reviewed the NDA and given me his opinion. Candy was aware of this, and open to hearing any concerns raised. I'll pass those on to her shortly. In previous discussions, she has made it clear that she was open to input and welcomed it. I also believe that had she chosen to push for a vote, the votes were probably there to pass it. Instead it's been tabled for study, and input.

I've got no idea what the finished product may look like, but there is an opportunity for input and discussion. Speaking solely for myself, I intend to offer what I can to help us move forward. If the finished product is something that I can't support, then so be it. We are a long way from that point right now.

My opinion, and mine alone without representing KCBS or the board.

YankeeBBQ
04-25-2012, 10:56 AM
I've been staying out of this but I think you have asked some good questions and have a right to some answers. Since this topic was discussed in open session I believe I have a right to comment. My answers are in Red

I have been re-reading this and other posts and have a simple question.

Why do the Current Board member not have a right to ALL documents and information pertaining to the operation of the organization? We do have a right we just don't have access

The reasoning for this question is, when I was on the PNWBA board, we had similar issues with hidden records and agenda by past and current board members and we sought a legal opinion on the subject. It was stated that withholding this information is illegal and the party or parties could be sued and the D&O insurance would not cover the cost of the suit if the party was withholding the information. Is MO or KS law any different? No Missouri Law is no different. Has no one asked the question of the legal group? Yes the question was asked twice and answered twice which is why I can tell you Missouri law is no different. Was this question asked and that is why Mike Lake abstained because of the answer? I cannot speak for Mike Lake. Only he can answer your question.

I have also heard that the disclosure being offered prevents any board member, past or present, from discussing any aspects of the BOD or organization whether the actions took place in open session or closed session. I hope this is not true!! It's a confidentiality agreement and it pertains to all confidential information. At the present time the definition of confidential information is very broad. I don't believe former board members can be held to any agreement they did not sign. However this does not mean they are free to distribute confidential information. By accepting a term on the BOD they did agree to the Code of conduct.

Smoke'n Ice
04-25-2012, 11:46 AM
By accepting a term on the BOD they did agree to the Code of conduct.

Does this mean that the current board is bound by a code of conduct which makes a confidentiality agreement moot? What would the reasoning be therefore, to block this access?

You know the BS really should stop and the entire BOD work as a team and quit playing silly little games and micromanaging the day to day operations. It has gotten too big for that.

Candy Sue
04-25-2012, 11:54 AM
By accepting a term on the BOD they did agree to the Code of conduct.

Does this mean that the current board is bound by a code of conduct which makes a confidentiality agreement moot? What would the reasoning be therefore, to block this access?

You know the BS really should stop and the entire BOD work as a team and quit playing silly little games and micromanaging the day to day operations. It has gotten too big for that.

This board is not bound by a code of conduct. That's the problem and the nondisclosure agreement encompases a code of conduct. I think that when you're on the outside looking at the board, it may seem to be "silly little games." I believe that this board has the potential to be a great team moving KCBS further down the field. Mack, you should run next year on the "no silly little games" platform.

Blah, Blah, Blah -- my opinion only!

drbbq
04-25-2012, 12:09 PM
Be glad to, Ray. The non-disclosure agreement will be signed by directors and staff of KCBS. In my opinion, it should cover all discussions on all topics held in closed sessions present and past, live or recorded. It will cover matters that are "proprietary" to KCBS that only the staff know that shouldn't be in open discussion with anyone who doesn't need to know. . It's an extension of fiduciary responsibility. When someone is elected as a KCBS director, they have a duty to KCBS. Many times situations arise where personal motives, desires, ambitions and relationships conflict with that first duty to KCBS. A nondisclosure agreement is a physical reminder of personal responsibility to KCBS.

Thanks for answering. I do understand the need for NDAs and I sign them all the time.

But the real question was does this one go BEYOND the proprietery info. If I can interpret all of your answers I'd say that is still in discussion. I think limiting discussion of the open meeting with members is ridiculous.

This has a big feeling of Deja Vu for me. I can't help but feel this comes from somewhere besides Candy and I'm not talking about the lawyer.

Jacked UP BBQ
04-25-2012, 12:11 PM
FOR THE LOVE OF BBQ!:drama:

drbbq
04-25-2012, 01:02 PM
FOR THE LOVE OF BBQ!:drama:

Yeah let's just ignore it and let the board do whatever they want. That's what good members do.

Jacked UP BBQ
04-25-2012, 02:39 PM
So inorder to be a good member I must pay my $35, get political, ride my high horse and bitch on a daily basis?

Scottie
04-25-2012, 02:53 PM
Thank you Steve.

Slamdunkpro
04-25-2012, 04:29 PM
Once all NDAs have been executed, would you vote to allow current board members to hear the recordings of past executive sessions before they vote whether or not to delete them?

This is a good question and deserves and answer. Don't Board members and officers by the nature of their position always have blanket need to know?

Scottie
04-25-2012, 05:05 PM
Do the directors also have to sign a non-compete?

Jeff_in_KC
05-01-2012, 06:38 PM
I have one thing to say about all of this. Although I voted to not destroy and records, I have ZERO use for any of the past closed session meeting recordings! I don't want to hear them and I don't want to know what they said. I prefer we move forward with the business at hand to make KCBS better and not be so damned worried about the past. If we keep looking backwards, we're gonna trip over what's in front of us and fall on our faces! Three months feels like three years at times when I read stuff like this thread!

Vince RnQ
05-01-2012, 07:19 PM
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." - George Santayana

Jeff_in_KC
05-04-2012, 05:38 PM
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." - George Santayana

In some instances, I agree. I don't need to know what all the damned fighting, threats and other BS was all about to do my job. If it takes listening to that garbage, maybe I'm not the person for this job. I prefer not to be polluted.

Vince RnQ
05-05-2012, 03:15 AM
"Knowledge will forever govern ignorance; and a people who mean to be their own governors must arm themselves with the power which knowledge gives." - James Madison

Bunny
05-07-2012, 11:49 AM
In some instances, I agree. I don't need to know what all the damned fighting, threats and other BS was all about to do my job. If it takes listening to that garbage, maybe I'm not the person for this job. I prefer not to be polluted.

I agree whole heartedly with Jeff on this one. There is a lot of ugliness that can get slung around and it doesn't do anything but throw negative into the BOD. Anything that needed motions afterwards went into records that anyone can see and problems solved. Rehashing issues with people, names and incidents are in the past and we need to move on. Why does the BOD want to stir the pot? Get on with business. There's too many issues that need to get finished.

Bunny

Jeff_in_KC
05-07-2012, 11:38 PM
"Knowledge will forever govern ignorance; and a people who mean to be their own governors must arm themselves with the power which knowledge gives." - James Madison

Knowledge of that garbage IS ignorance, Vince.

Vince RnQ
05-10-2012, 01:24 PM
Only if you allow it to become poison, Jeff.