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View Full Version : 1st time judging; williepalooza!


boogiesnap
04-06-2012, 05:17 PM
Good luck everyone! Hope I do y'all right.(judge fairly and appropriately)

Any thoughts for a first time judge?

I'll try and shake allaya'alls hands after turn ins. Lotsa brethren I'd like to meet!

Good luck, can't wait!

Sledneck
04-06-2012, 05:30 PM
My condolences

scm1226
04-06-2012, 05:31 PM
The mediocre brisket will be ours. Mark it up. Hahahaha, great event, hope you have fun, we always do. Come by for aJameson after your judging .

Cue's Your Daddy
04-06-2012, 05:40 PM
Bring a cooler so u fit in....

ModelMaker
04-06-2012, 05:42 PM
Good luck everyone! Hope I do y'all right.(judge fairly and appropriately)

Any thoughts for a first time judge?

I'll try and shake allaya'alls hands after turn ins. Lotsa brethren I'd like to meet!

Good luck, can't wait!


I see there is a new 1st time judge continueing education effort in the Bullsheet where the Rep should pair you up with a mentor such as a Master Judge to help you on your way. Bring it to their attention and give it a try.
Good luck on your first adventure as a judge. The first time is always special, judging too!!
Ed

boogiesnap
04-06-2012, 06:19 PM
The mediocre brisket will be ours. Mark it up. Hahahaha, great event, hope you have fun, we always do. Come by for aJameson after your judging .

you're on!

thanks for the invite!

boogiesnap
04-06-2012, 06:25 PM
Bring a cooler so u fit in....

the only cooler i'll have will be full of beers and water to share with my friends after judging and congratulate them on their efforts.

even though i hate wasting food, i'm not there to get a doggy bag. :mrgreen:

boogiesnap
04-06-2012, 06:31 PM
I see there is a new 1st time judge continueing education effort in the Bullsheet where the Rep should pair you up with a mentor such as a Master Judge to help you on your way. Bring it to their attention and give it a try.
Good luck on your first adventure as a judge. The first time is always special, judging too!!
Ed

i will do that at another contest, but this one isn't KCBS sanctioned. it is brethren rules.

as an aside i scored 48 out of 50 on the online test(forget if it was continuing education or the CMJ test) so i hope i at least know the rules, but having someone walk you along the process would be great.

but, thanks for the heads up, i flipped through the current bullsheet this morning, will read through maybe tomorrow.

boogiesnap
04-06-2012, 06:33 PM
My condolences

why? you won't be there, no chance of getting 13th place rubber chicken. :caked:

or a hotpocket.

Sledneck
04-06-2012, 06:50 PM
why? you won't be there, no chance of getting 13th place rubber chicken. :caked:

or a hotpocket.

I will be there, bring a big bottle of pepto

Lake Dogs
04-06-2012, 07:34 PM
> you're not gonna place. or show.
>
> sauce the farkin thing for the judges. un-sauce at home for principle.
>
> develop a sauce that in your mind compliments the bbq.
>
> *rant on* i'm getting a little tired of the "it's a meat contest" conjecture.
>
> it is not.
>
> it is a BBQ contest, and with that, can and will include sauce.
>
> a meat contest would have very different criteria...kosher salt, fresh cracked black > pepper and nothing else seasoning the meat. BBQ is different.
>
> see steak vs. pulled pork bbq.
>
> so please, sauce your competition BBQ. at least a little bit.
>
> *rant off*
>
> flame at will fellas....proof is in aaallllll in the pudding.

Then,

> Any thoughts for a first time judge?


Yes, I have one. I'll bet that Tom has judge over 100 contests in different sanctioning bodies, sampling probably 400 to 600 pulled pork entries (at very least).
I suggest reserving comments like above until you have at least 5 or 6
contests judged under the belt.

Lets offer advice from experience, aye? JMHO. The "its a meat contest, not a sauce
contest" is part of judges training in most every sanctioning body and reiterated at many pre-contest judges meetings.

Good luck; have fun; and please judge based upon the criteria and standards taught in class.

boogiesnap
04-06-2012, 09:36 PM
> you're not gonna place. or show.
>
> sauce the farkin thing for the judges. un-sauce at home for principle.
>
> develop a sauce that in your mind compliments the bbq.
>
> *rant on* i'm getting a little tired of the "it's a meat contest" conjecture.
>
> it is not.
>
> it is a BBQ contest, and with that, can and will include sauce.
>
> a meat contest would have very different criteria...kosher salt, fresh cracked black > pepper and nothing else seasoning the meat. BBQ is different.
>
> see steak vs. pulled pork bbq.
>
> so please, sauce your competition BBQ. at least a little bit.
>
> *rant off*
>
> flame at will fellas....proof is in aaallllll in the pudding.

Then,

> Any thoughts for a first time judge?


Yes, I have one. I'll bet that Tom has judge over 100 contests in different sanctioning bodies, sampling probably 400 to 600 pulled pork entries (at very least).
I suggest reserving comments like above until you have at least 5 or 6
contests judged under the belt.

Lets offer advice from experience, aye? JMHO. The "its a meat contest, not a sauce
contest" is part of judges training in most every sanctioning body and reiterated at many pre-contest judges meetings.

Good luck; have fun; and please judge based upon the criteria and standards taught in class.

crafty deveil aren't ya. :becky:

those comments were from a competitor's standpoint, not a judge's.

i also never said it was a sauce contest, i said it was a BBQ contest; and some sauce on BBQ meat can be good.

sauce or don't sauce for me as judge, i'll score as presented. if it's good, it'll score high, if not, then low, regardless of if it's sauced or not.

however, as a competitor, i still stand behind the advice i gave to score well consistently(assuming in kcbs).

hance, you're one of the most helpful members on here(and have helped me personally a number of times) so i'm not starting a tif, but, let me ask, how many times have you turned in un-sauced pork for KCBS?

boogiesnap
04-06-2012, 09:41 PM
I will be there, bring a big bottle of pepto

oh yeah, i forgot what you had told me. see ya sunday afternoon.

Lake Dogs
04-07-2012, 06:57 AM
crafty deveil aren't ya. :becky:

those comments were from a competitor's standpoint, not a judge's.

i also never said it was a sauce contest, i said it was a BBQ contest; and some sauce on BBQ meat can be good.

sauce or don't sauce for me as judge, i'll score as presented. if it's good, it'll score high, if not, then low, regardless of if it's sauced or not.

however, as a competitor, i still stand behind the advice i gave to score well consistently(assuming in kcbs).

hance, you're one of the most helpful members on here(and have helped me personally a number of times) so i'm not starting a tif, but, let me ask, how many times have you turned in un-sauced pork for KCBS?

I was in "a mood" last night. My apology. Sincerely!

I've mostly judged and competed in others, not much KCBS. When we've done KCBS two times the first time the pork went out COLD (very bad) and was just in that bottom 1/3 (26th out of 45 or something like this). The other time we were in that top 1/3 with a call (as best I recall), but it was about 9th, unsauced and unsliced... You are right in that KCBS differs (from what I've seen) from other sanctioning bodies in that KCBS judges seem to want sauce and they want/prefer St Louis spares. Probably the other extreme/opposite would be MBN, where around here the pork is probably 70-80% unsauced and I've never seen a spare rib win, ever, it's about baby backs. Why the difference, even in the same approximate region, I dont know... It just is. BBQ Pitmasters, IMHO, has played a part at least here in this region. Probably one comment by Myron did more than anything I've ever seen. Meaning, in 2004-2009 we'd almost never see anything sliced in pork come across the table, not even the MM. Now, probably 70% have the MM sliced (in blind boxes); not in on-site [MBN]. Still, some MM's will come in sliced with a tiny amount of sauce, some unsauced, occasionally heavily sauced. MBN sauce is better on-the-side (IMHO), if at all.

As for your personal experience doing better with sauce, part of that could've been that the judges expected the sauce, and/or it could've been that it needed sauce to become more moist/tender and help with presentation, or perhaps it was a tad bland without the sauce and needed it for flavor. I've seen (and still see) these types of things from unsauced meats coming across the tables. But, every once in a while, an unsauced entry comes across that hits the mark perfectly and WOW is it something else!!

Like in the last contest I judged. Good pork table; 2 unsauced entries, others sauced or sauce on side. I had one entry that was unsauced, beautiful presentation, perfectly tender and moist, but was bland and definitely needed a little pick-me-up. It scored middle of the pack. I had another entry that put a mustard sauce on the side. The mustard sauce happened to be the best mustard sauce I've EVER had, EVER. But, this sauce didnt go well with the meat presented, and so it scored lower than the bland one. Funny, after judging was over, I dipped some of the bland meat in a little of that mustard sauce and OH WOW did that do the trick. Combine those two and it would've been amazing. Anyway, this is an example on one table where sauce hurt one entry and would've really helped another.

Westexbbq
04-07-2012, 10:06 AM
"Any thoughts for a first time judge?"

Yes, be sure and study the syllabus, bring two, sharp #2 pencils and practice the secret handshake until you can do it in the dark.

boogiesnap
04-07-2012, 08:47 PM
I was in "a mood" last night. My apology. Sincerely!

I've mostly judged and competed in others, not much KCBS. When we've done KCBS two times the first time the pork went out COLD (very bad) and was just in that bottom 1/3 (26th out of 45 or something like this). The other time we were in that top 1/3 with a call (as best I recall), but it was about 9th, unsauced and unsliced... You are right in that KCBS differs (from what I've seen) from other sanctioning bodies in that KCBS judges seem to want sauce and they want/prefer St Louis spares. Probably the other extreme/opposite would be MBN, where around here the pork is probably 70-80% unsauced and I've never seen a spare rib win, ever, it's about baby backs. Why the difference, even in the same approximate region, I dont know... It just is. BBQ Pitmasters, IMHO, has played a part at least here in this region. Probably one comment by Myron did more than anything I've ever seen. Meaning, in 2004-2009 we'd almost never see anything sliced in pork come across the table, not even the MM. Now, probably 70% have the MM sliced (in blind boxes); not in on-site [MBN]. Still, some MM's will come in sliced with a tiny amount of sauce, some unsauced, occasionally heavily sauced. MBN sauce is better on-the-side (IMHO), if at all.

As for your personal experience doing better with sauce, part of that could've been that the judges expected the sauce, and/or it could've been that it needed sauce to become more moist/tender and help with presentation, or perhaps it was a tad bland without the sauce and needed it for flavor. I've seen (and still see) these types of things from unsauced meats coming across the tables. But, every once in a while, an unsauced entry comes across that hits the mark perfectly and WOW is it something else!!

Like in the last contest I judged. Good pork table; 2 unsauced entries, others sauced or sauce on side. I had one entry that was unsauced, beautiful presentation, perfectly tender and moist, but was bland and definitely needed a little pick-me-up. It scored middle of the pack. I had another entry that put a mustard sauce on the side. The mustard sauce happened to be the best mustard sauce I've EVER had, EVER. But, this sauce didnt go well with the meat presented, and so it scored lower than the bland one. Funny, after judging was over, I dipped some of the bland meat in a little of that mustard sauce and OH WOW did that do the trick. Combine those two and it would've been amazing. Anyway, this is an example on one table where sauce hurt one entry and would've really helped another.

no sweat hance, even "in a mood" you're pleasant. :becky:

but, mood or not, that was a valid question and i'd be concerned myself if a JUDGE said those things, but rest assured i was wearing my competitor hat there.

i think as competitors the brethren are the majority and a driving force within the sport, but, when it comes to judging, and judging absolute according to the sanctioning body rules, i think we are, unfortunately, a minority. snobby about it even, at times, because we are so passionate about the subject of good barbecue.

i'll judge as a brethren should and would be proud about.

lastly, once again, thanks for the follow up and great insight.

honestly though, i'm still a bit nervous. :wink:

Lake Dogs
04-08-2012, 08:46 AM
You'll do great; I promise. It's to be enjoyed. Come hungry. Do your best to judge each piece of meat in front of you on it's own merits. It's a lot of fun, and you'll get to sample some really fine BBQ. Some of it isn't so great, and that happens too. There are times where you're torn between two scores. When you see this recognize within yourself and then remember; the benefit of doubt goes to the cook. Listen carefully at the judges meeting and if you're in any way confused, please ask. They'll give you the core of judges training every time. Then, be critical and honest, and have fun doing it.

early mornin' smokin'
04-08-2012, 09:46 AM
never judged, but my teammates and I have talked about doing it once or twice for a change of pace! Have fun, be fair and come say Hi when you're all done!