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Pappy Q
04-04-2012, 06:54 PM
Do you think the average judge outside of the Kansas City area understands and appreciates traditional burnt ends?

G$
04-04-2012, 06:58 PM
Do you think the average judge outside of the Kansas City area understands and appreciates traditional burnt ends?

Yes, even those they get in the pork turn in box.... :wacko:

landarc
04-04-2012, 07:00 PM
Should they have to? If it's in the box, it gets judged, taste, tenderness and appearance. They don't need to know anymore than that, or am I missing this?

cpw
04-04-2012, 07:06 PM
We did a non sanctioned event last year and cooked the driest, nastiest sawdust tasting brisket ever. We also threw some burnt ends in the box, cause we were making them, and they actually turned out pretty good.

Lo and behold, we took first place in brisket, which was the first time we'd even placed in brisker at that particular comp.

El Pistolero
04-04-2012, 07:23 PM
Do you think the average judge outside of the Kansas City area understands and appreciates traditional burnt ends?

I think the judges understand burnt ends just fine...I've wondered on occasion if some of the cooks do tho.

southernstyle
04-04-2012, 07:31 PM
Ohhhhh yea. Judges in the fba look forward to them. As far as kcbs goes at the sams club in tampa Ilet my brisket get away from me and it got cooked to death. I could not even slice the flat it was bad dry and mushy. My burnt ends were stellar so on a last minute judgement call I decided to just turn in burnt ends. I ended up 11th in brisket with a 166.2860. Not the best or worst score. But 4 judges gave me all 8s and 9s with the other two not so much. Anyway all burnt ends and they loved them

G$
04-04-2012, 07:59 PM
Anyway all burnt ends and they loved them

How many in the box?

southernstyle
04-04-2012, 08:12 PM
16. 4 rows of 4. cut very symetrical

indianagriller
04-04-2012, 08:26 PM
I dont think they do... at least they didnt last weekend,

Bbq Bubba
04-04-2012, 08:28 PM
Do you think the average judge outside of the Kansas City area understands and appreciates traditional burnt ends?

Another preconceived notion on how burnt ends "should" taste.

Id rather a judge that never had a burnt end and score for what they are.

gmholler
04-04-2012, 08:55 PM
As I judge, I *HATE* when they're served because I know what's coming, but I dutifully try them...and usually, they're just chunks of gristle. When they're not, usually the sliced brisket that is served with them tastes like shoe leather and I'm stuck trying to figure out how I should score decent burnt ends and sliced brisket where the cow obviously died in vain...

Lynn H.

southernstyle
04-04-2012, 09:03 PM
As I judge, I *HATE* when they're served because I know what's coming, but I dutifully try them...and usually, they're just chunks of gristle. When they're not, usually the sliced brisket that is served with them tastes like shoe leather and I'm stuck trying to figure out how I should score decent burnt ends and sliced brisket where the cow obviously died in vain...

Lynn H.
remind me not to. compete where your judging. a judge should enjoy all four catogories or not judge at all.

Bentley
04-04-2012, 09:13 PM
I am not sure what a "traditional" KC area burnt end is. I think I do, I have always thought that the point was cubed after cooking and then sauced, returned to the pit for X amount of time then served. Whether that is correct or not, I don't know.

I have turned in what might be described as burnt ends, but I never seem to take the time to do the 2nd step, so I guess mine would not be a "traditional" one.

Are there different ways to do burnt ends? Do all BBQ Joints in KC area sauce them?

Bourbon Barrel BBQ
04-04-2012, 09:18 PM
I dont think they do... at least they didnt last weekend,


My worst brisket finish ever. They did not like them. I've never won without them in the box though.

big brother smoke
04-04-2012, 09:19 PM
As I judge, I *HATE* when they're served because I know what's coming, but I dutifully try them...and usually, they're just chunks of gristle. When they're not, usually the sliced brisket that is served with them tastes like shoe leather and I'm stuck trying to figure out how I should score decent burnt ends and sliced brisket where the cow obviously died in vain...

Lynn H.

This practice/philosophy is unaffectionately known as "judge six" :mmph:

Q-Dat
04-04-2012, 09:41 PM
I have a new rule when in comes to turning them in. We try them first, and if the reaction is anything less than "oh man thats good!" we leave em out.

indianagriller
04-04-2012, 10:51 PM
My worst brisket finish ever. They did not like them. I've never won without them in the box though.

I agree, we werent out of the top ten last year in brisket, everytime had 8 slices, and 8 magnificent burnt ends (if they are not as good or better than the slices they dont go in the box) Last weekend the brisket was way better than anything i turned in last year and we got hammered... I was very surprised in the teams that did NOT get the calls that i thought would...

nukenight
04-04-2012, 11:12 PM
Like a good judge, I always try burnt ends when presented. I would estimate than in 90% of boxes when they are presented, the presence of burnt ends bring the scores down. Last weekend was one such case. The sliced product in the box was very good. Based on the sliced product alone, I would have considered giving the entry all 8's and 9's. But upon tasting the ends, I gave the box a 7 on taste because of the extreme smokiness of the presented pieces. By themselves, I would have given the ends a 5 and would write a comment card about the extreme smoky flavor.

I do think a cook is asking for low scores if they present burnt ends in places away from the midwest. I think they are an acquired taste that not everyone appreciates. In Texas and Louisiana, almost nobody presents burnt ends. Besides, in other sanctioning bodies like IBCA and so forth, you CAN'T present burnt ends anyway. My advice is leave then out and make your slices as good as they can be!

Uncle Buds BBQ
04-05-2012, 07:27 AM
Do you think the average judge outside of the Kansas City area understands and appreciates traditional burnt ends?
Pappy - Last week at Benton 3 of the 6 boxes that crossed my table had Burnt Ends in them. Although I really shouldn't call them that since they were no more than cubed brisket. All 3 had the same color and bark as the the slices. 2 of the 3 had a high fat content so I assume it came from the point but the other looked and tasted like it came from the flat.

In my mind Burnt Ends should be just that. Dark, crispy outside...burnt....moist, fatty inside.

So...I didn't score down for them but these teams didn't get any extra points for them.

Dave

Q-Dat
04-05-2012, 08:36 AM
remind me not to. compete where your judging. a judge should enjoy all four catogories or not judge at all.


I don't think thats what she meant. I believe the only part she "hates" is trying to decide how to score a box that has good slices and bad burnt ends or vice versa. Potentially you could have a sliced entry that would have scored perfect, but gets brought down because of tough gristly "burnt ends".

I think we need to come up with another name for them, because what most people are making, are neither burnt, nor from the ends of the meat.

I know that what I turn in aren't really "burnt ends", but "Melt in your mouth nuggets of caramelized beefy deliciousness" takes too long to say :rolleyes:

INmitch
04-05-2012, 08:43 AM
What I learned last year. I thought my burnt ends were realy good but just wasn't getting consistant good scores. I quit putting them in the second weekend in August. Here's results for the rest of the year.

Sams regional Indy 1st
Madison Ribberfest 19th...still scratching my head on this one.
Silverlake MI 3rd behind 2 No name teams Scottie and Quau.:mrgreen:
Royal Invitational 7th
Royal Open 6th
Sams Nationals 1st (180)

Needless to say the points of my briskies go into hamburger. I love my burnt ends but the judges don't so I leave them out.

Uncle Buds BBQ
04-05-2012, 08:47 AM
Melt in your mouth nuggets of caramelized beefy deliciousness
THAT'S what I want to see in a box!!! :-o

Bourbon Barrel BBQ
04-05-2012, 08:56 AM
Pappy - Last week at Benton 3 of the 6 boxes that crossed my table had Burnt Ends in them. Although I really shouldn't call them that since they were no more than cubed brisket. All 3 had the same color and bark as the the slices. 2 of the 3 had a high fat content so I assume it came from the point but the other looked and tasted like it came from the flat.

In my mind Burnt Ends should be just that. Dark, crispy outside...burnt....moist, fatty inside.

So...I didn't score down for them but these teams didn't get any extra points for them.

Dave

Not everybody cooks the same way. It's going to be hard for teams to win when judges are scoring according to their own personal definition of what burnt ends should be. Did it look good? Taste good? Tender? I don't remember any bonus points for things that are or aren't in the box and I don't remember getting direction from KCBS on what exactly burnt ends should look like. I would hope somebody would tell me if theres a standard I'm being held to.

Big Poppa
04-05-2012, 09:02 AM
I love this thread. Love it. I hate more rules but really this is such a interesting decision at EVERY comp for us...Seems like You should either have to have them or not.

But I respect the insight and Im leaving them out from now on....

Bourbon Barrel BBQ
04-05-2012, 09:17 AM
I love this thread. Love it. I hate more rules but really this is such a interesting decision at EVERY comp for us...Seems like You should either have to have them or not.

But I respect the insight and Im leaving them out from now on....

These are our results from last year. Comp to comp brisket is our most consistent in flavor and tenderness IMO.

Benton - 10th
Liberty - 1st
Louisville - 1st
Lebanon - 1st
Jeffersonville - 10th
Jasper - 11th
Madison - 16 (ouch)
Owensboro - 1st
Springfield - 4th
Munfordville - 13th

Everyone of those comps had burnt ends in the box. I'm starting to think I was hurt by them on a few comps. I don't know If I have the guts to leave them out. Seems like you are rewarded when you hit a table with judges who like them and penalized when you hit a table with judges who don't. Maybe it is safer to leave them out and offend no one.

gmholler
04-05-2012, 09:47 AM
I don't think thats what she meant. I believe the only part she "hates" is trying to decide how to score a box that has good slices and bad burnt ends or vice versa. Potentially you could have a sliced entry that would have scored perfect, but gets brought down because of tough gristly "burnt ends".


Yes, exactly! I think part of the problem is that a lot of new cookers don't understand that there is something specific that is meant by "burnt ends"; they see their neighbor putting what looks like chunks of their brisket in their turn-in box, and sometimes what they're putting in glistens, so that must be fat, so they'd better put it in their box, too, 'cause, well, their neighbor has cooked lots of these contests and knows what wins...

Lynn H.

tdwalker
04-05-2012, 09:48 AM
My experience judging has been about 40% include burnt ends. I have not ever lowered a score because of them (but would if they were worse than just the sliced entry). I have increased the score when the burnt ends add to the quality of the box.

I judge in the mid-atlantic region.

Also, to agree with what Uncle Bud said, a large amount of the "burnt ends" are really just cubed brisket, sauced, with no other preparation.

Q-Dat
04-05-2012, 10:01 AM
Yes, exactly! I think part of the problem is that a lot of new cookers don't understand that there is something specific that is meant by "burnt ends"; they see their neighbor putting what looks like chunks of their brisket in their turn-in box, and sometimes what they're putting in glistens, so that must be fat, so they'd better put it in their box, too, 'cause, well, their neighbor has cooked lots of these contests and knows what wins...

Lynn H.

Lynn, next time I see you at a comp, I'm gonna let you try our burnt ends after the judging. Haha I know you have already tried them once before, but this time I promise there won't be any Cumin in the rub! ;)

Capn Kev
04-05-2012, 10:17 AM
As I judge, I *HATE* when they're served because I know what's coming, but I dutifully try them...and usually, they're just chunks of gristle. When they're not, usually the sliced brisket that is served with them tastes like shoe leather and I'm stuck trying to figure out how I should score decent burnt ends and sliced brisket where the cow obviously died in vain...

Lynn H.

Plain and simple... Please stop judging BBQ contests.

Capn Kev
04-05-2012, 10:23 AM
Out of 11 comps last year... we had 5 top three brisket finishes.

2 - 1st place (including a 180)
2 - 2nd place
1 - 3rd place

We didn't put anything but slices in the box. Burnt Ends are too risky in my opinion. I'd rather turn in perfect slices, and fill the box with 'em

Bourbon Barrel BBQ
04-05-2012, 10:32 AM
Out of 11 comps last year... we had 5 top three brisket finishes.

2 - 1st place (including a 180)
2 - 2nd place
1 - 3rd place

We didn't put anything but slices in the box. Burnt Ends are too risky in my opinion. I'd rather turn in perfect slices, and fill the box with 'em

It certainly seems like burnt ends hurt more than help.

New Pal Frank
04-05-2012, 10:40 AM
Last weekend in Las Vegas, the table behind me turned in a box with nothing but burnt ends and scored a lot of 8's & 9's. They handed me one and it was YUMMY.
If it's good, send it in. If you don't think it's good, keep it out.

Q-Dat
04-05-2012, 11:26 AM
Plain and simple... Please stop judging BBQ contests.

Capn Kev, if you'll read my earlier post in this thread,(I believe its the 20th one) it will explain what Lynn meant by what she said.

Lynn is a very good judge who gives comment cards when warranted. She and her husband both do alot for the competition BBQ scene down here. And as far as I am aware they don't make anything off of it.

Rich Parker
04-05-2012, 11:56 AM
What I learned last year. I thought my burnt ends were realy good but just wasn't getting consistant good scores. I quit putting them in the second weekend in August. Here's results for the rest of the year.

Sams regional Indy 1st
Madison Ribberfest 19th...still scratching my head on this one.
Silverlake MI 3rd behind 2 No name teams Scottie and Quau.:mrgreen:
Royal Invitational 7th
Royal Open 6th
Sams Nationals 1st (180)

Needless to say the points of my briskies go into hamburger. I love my burnt ends but the judges don't so I leave them out.

Anything else you want to add...my notepad is thin. :pop2:

nukenight
04-05-2012, 12:01 PM
True Q-Day, Lynn and I usually spend more money than we ever get from BBQ. I think turning in burnt ends are risky.

big matt
04-05-2012, 12:10 PM
I have to agree with most that have already posted..if they are great and I mean great they should go in the box..our first year we had 3 1st place brisket finishes all with ends included..we had quite a few 2nd places without them this past year..all the way to Vegas we talked about wether or not we should put them in..well they were butter soft and melt in your mouth good..put them in and took 2nd..it paid off this time but like everyone has said they are a gamble.

sitnfat
04-05-2012, 02:24 PM
Burnt ends are over rated everyone knows pulling the point is the way to go!:shocked:

daedalus
04-05-2012, 02:47 PM
I am not sure what a "traditional" KC area burnt end is. I think I do, I have always thought that the point was cubed after cooking and then sauced, returned to the pit for X amount of time then served. Whether that is correct or not, I don't know.

Your pretty close...Assuming that you dont separate your point from the flat before it even goes on the smoker, you would want to smoke the whole brisket until the flat is done, separate the point, re-rub it, and put it back on the smoker to finish. Then you cube it up and sauce it.
Having said that, I always separate first because I feel that the two muscles are VERY different, and require a completely different cooking method to achieve wonderfulness. I treat the point more like a pork shoulder and go low and slow. The flat is much more lean, and seems to work better on a high temp, shorter smoke. Just my two cents.

Are there different ways to do burnt ends? Do all BBQ Joints in KC area sauce them?
Yes, just like with any BBQ, and not all sauce around here, but the vast majority do.

As to the question at hand, I think it may be a bit of an acquired taste. IMO Burnt ends should have a bit more chew to them...and a bit of crispness around the edges is a good thing too. They are tricky to get just right, and I can tell you that most of the burnt ends that come across my judging plates just aren't very good. But when a really really great one does happen by, it is just about my favorite thing in the world!

Pappy Q
04-05-2012, 03:15 PM
Thanks for all the input, it's helped my decision process.

Podge
04-05-2012, 03:27 PM
My 1st in brisket at the Jack in 2007 was with no burnt ends. My 15th in brisket at the Jack in 2008 had burnt ends.. FWIW..

Scottie
04-05-2012, 03:42 PM
What I learned last year. I thought my burnt ends were realy good but just wasn't getting consistant good scores. I quit putting them in the second weekend in August. Here's results for the rest of the year.

Sams regional Indy 1st
Madison Ribberfest 19th...still scratching my head on this one.
Silverlake MI 3rd behind 2 No name teams Scottie and Quau.:mrgreen:
Royal Invitational 7th
Royal Open 6th
Sams Nationals 1st (180)

Needless to say the points of my briskies go into hamburger. I love my burnt ends but the judges don't so I leave them out.


I had burnt end in Silver Lake and so did Mike. I was fortunate. QUAU nailed his brisket and it was better than mine. In my opinion at least. Mine was good though.. :mrgreen:

Chenernator
04-05-2012, 03:47 PM
Last weekend in Las Vegas, the table behind me turned in a box with nothing but burnt ends and scored a lot of 8's & 9's. They handed me one and it was YUMMY.
If it's good, send it in. If you don't think it's good, keep it out.

Hey, that was my table. Enjoyed meeting you guys.

Back on topic - Any time you submit two different samples, you better nail both. I've had boxes that were borderline between two scores, and the burnt ends helped make the decision (in both directions).

Also, I'm pretty sure most of what I've gotten has just been cubed point, but that's not a bad thing if it's done right. I've even seen boxes that had burnt ends, slices, and chopped brisket.

Capn Kev
04-06-2012, 10:08 AM
My 1st in brisket at the Jack in 2007 was with no burnt ends. My 15th in brisket at the Jack in 2008 had burnt ends.. FWIW..

Me & my buddy Jay Wolf took 4th at the Jack in 2010 with no burnt ends. I think we scored a 176 or so.

I consider my burnt ends to be great, and when I cater, they are the most requested item off my menu. However, the few times I have turned them in, scores seem to become sporadic not bad, but sporadic. My personal feelings are that judges have different ideas of what burnt ends should be. I know a few guys that are turning in cubed flats as "burnt ends". They purposely overcook one of their briskets to the point where it's just about falling apart. Then they cube, season and box the pieces along with the slices from the other brisket.

Podge
04-06-2012, 10:21 AM
[QUOTE=Capn Kev;2005921]Me & my buddy Jay Wolf took 4th at the Jack in 2010 with no burnt ends. I think we scored a 176 or so.
QUOTE]

There ya go, 2 top 5's at the Jack with no burnt ends. Celebrity judges too. Seems the tip of the day for the Jack at least.

SHBBQ
04-06-2012, 10:43 AM
Don't use burnt ends or reasonable facsimiles there of just for the sake of having them in the box.

Also, it is never the judges' fault when your food scores badly, it is your food's fault.

disclaimer: The use of the phrase "your food" is intended as a generalized statement encompassing anyone and everyone's food cooked at any time. :wink:

SteerCrazy
04-06-2012, 10:49 AM
I've always scored well adding burnt ends to my brisket box. If they're (burnt ends) not good, don't add them. It will only bring down the brisket score:razz:

Bourbon Barrel BBQ
04-06-2012, 12:14 PM
Also, it is never the judges' fault when your food scores badly, it is your food's fault.


I agree with the judging of my food 95% of the time. To say the judges are never wrong is funny to me. One judge scores 999 and the guy next to him scores 767. One of those two is wrong. It could easily be the guy that scored 999. Judges are human. They can and will screw up at times.

Podge
04-06-2012, 12:27 PM
I agree with the judging of my food 95% of the time. To say the judges are never wrong is funny to me. One judge scores 999 and the guy next to him scores 767. One of those two is wrong. It could easily be the guy that scored 999. Judges are human. They can and will screw up at times.

agreed.:becky:

SHBBQ
04-06-2012, 02:07 PM
I agree with the judging of my food 95% of the time. To say the judges are never wrong is funny to me. One judge scores 999 and the guy next to him scores 767. One of those two is wrong. It could easily be the guy that scored 999. Judges are human. They can and will screw up at times.

That is assuming that the piece that the 767 judge bit into was exactly the same as the piece 999 bit into. Neither of the two are "wrong" because ultimately it is their opinion. Just like our opinions differ here, judge's opinions differ. Taste buds are different, pieces of chicken are different, ribs are different, so many variables to just blame everything on the judges and say one of them or both of them are "wrong."

Bourbon Barrel BBQ
04-06-2012, 02:22 PM
That is assuming that the piece that the 767 judge bit into was exactly the same as the piece 999 bit into. Neither of the two are "wrong" because ultimately it is their opinion. Just like our opinions differ here, judge's opinions differ. Taste buds are different, pieces of chicken are different, ribs are different, so many variables to just blame everything on the judges and say one of them or both of them are "wrong."

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. How many times on here have we heard comments come out of judges mouths that they are scoring based on the way somebodies parsley looks or they marked down because they got wings instead of thighs. There are absolutely bad judges out there who can and will score an entry incorrectly.

sitnfat
04-07-2012, 08:12 AM
So who is cooking burnt ends today????

Q-Dat
04-07-2012, 09:56 AM
So who is cooking burnt ends today????

I wish.....

Big Poppa
04-07-2012, 11:17 AM
agonizing as we speak!

Nordy
04-07-2012, 08:25 PM
My teammates sole purpose on brisket today was to remind me (force me) to NOT put Burntends in the box.... I don't even cut them....

Last comp with BEs = 25th
This comp no BEs= 6th

No BEs for me from now on...

Big Poppa
04-07-2012, 11:33 PM
OK now Im totally messed up Today at the Contest in Wildomar.....I read this...told myself...NO BURNT ENDS! I cookend the brisket...."damn these are pretty good burnt ends" " I cant risk it" Screw it...


Put the burnt ends in

FIRST PLACE BRISKET


go figure...WTF?

Plowboy
04-08-2012, 12:06 AM
What I learned last year. I thought my burnt ends were realy good but just wasn't getting consistant good scores. I quit putting them in the second weekend in August. Here's results for the rest of the year.

Sams regional Indy 1st
Madison Ribberfest 19th...still scratching my head on this one.
Silverlake MI 3rd behind 2 No name teams Scottie and Quau.:mrgreen:
Royal Invitational 7th
Royal Open 6th
Sams Nationals 1st (180)

Needless to say the points of my briskies go into hamburger. I love my burnt ends but the judges don't so I leave them out.

Sounds like you had a good brisket coach.

Plowboy
04-08-2012, 12:07 AM
OK now Im totally messed up Today at the Contest in Wildomar.....I read this...told myself...NO BURNT ENDS! I cookend the brisket...."damn these are pretty good burnt ends" " I cant risk it" Screw it...


Put the burnt ends in

FIRST PLACE BRISKET


go figure...WTF?

Burnt ends today and placed 3rd of 82.

Plowboy
04-08-2012, 12:11 AM
That is assuming that the piece that the 767 judge bit into was exactly the same as the piece 999 bit into. Neither of the two are "wrong" because ultimately it is their opinion. Just like our opinions differ here, judge's opinions differ. Taste buds are different, pieces of chicken are different, ribs are different, so many variables to just blame everything on the judges and say one of them or both of them are "wrong."

I'd say it depends on the entry. Rib to rib out of the same or different racks will vary. However, even though six chicken thighs didn't come from the same chicken, I can make them taste like they did very easily. Chicken is probably the easiest thing to duplicate, especially during the same cook. My belief is that chicken scores should be consistent enough across judges at the same table that you shouldn't see more than 2 point swings from high to low.

Plowboy
04-08-2012, 12:14 AM
My 1st in brisket at the Jack in 2007 was with no burnt ends. My 15th in brisket at the Jack in 2008 had burnt ends.. FWIW..

My first place brisket at the Royal Invitational in 2009 had burnt ends. Having said that, the Royal is judged in KC.

Plowboy
04-08-2012, 12:15 AM
Competition burnt ends are like love. You know when you know.

Podge
04-08-2012, 08:38 AM
Competition burnt ends are like love. You know when you know.

That's the phrase I've been looking for to describe burnt ends.

GQue
04-08-2012, 09:09 PM
This has been a good thread - Thanks for all those that have contributed - Burnt ends are my favorite piece of BBQ across the board...I think for the most part they turn out pretty good to good when I put them in my box. The one time I did not turn in Burnt Ends I got 15th the reason I did not turn them in is my brisket finished just in time for turn ins as I was vending as well and did not have smoker space - I can usually get a consistent top 10 puttng burnt ends in a box. My 180 had Burnt ends

I think in our area RMBBQA is influenced a lot by what happens in KC and since KC tends to have a preference for BE I think our judges do as well in talking with them...Thats not to say you cant do well with out them as their is no silver bullet, but for my money money when done right there is no better BBQ than a well done BE and for that I will always include them in my box assuming they turn out good.

Ryan Chester
04-09-2012, 11:56 AM
I haven't turned in burnt ends in over 2 years and tend to walk more often than not in brisket. Not sure they are needed but when done right, they sure help.

fireman_pete
04-09-2012, 12:12 PM
We normally always turn-in burnt ends, just to add some options. No different than turning in sliced pork and chunks.

We took 5th in Brisket this weekend, with both slices and burnt ends.

Just my two cents!

Pete

SmokinOkie
04-09-2012, 01:43 PM
I find the logic funny. With or without Burnt ends affecting the score. If they were better without it, maybe your burnt ends were or were not good.

When you've had 'em, you'll know 'em like Plowboy said. I don't think a lot of people do more than sauce, turn 'em in an hope. I tested every one I put in, by manually squeezing/feeling them an tasting a few.

I did well with and without B.E.'s.

Rookie'48
04-09-2012, 10:06 PM
To me it just breaks down to putting only the good stuff in the box, 'cause if it's in there it's gonna get judged! :grin:

roksmith
04-10-2012, 12:28 PM
We have no problem turning in a brisket box without burnt ends, but we prefer to.. if they're up to par.
Our standard is... if they don't make us roll our eyes back when we taste them, they aren't going in cuz we did something wrong.
It does bother my that a judge mentioned earlier that sometimes what gets turned in is nothing but a mouthful of gristle. There is no gristle in a brisket. Worries me that they don't know what they are eating.

Candy Sue
04-10-2012, 12:50 PM
I think Dave's got the right of it. If it ain't the best, don't put it in the box. I'm thinking my slices brought me down in Pensacola this year, but I was too chicken to turn in straight burnt ends. Should have gone with my gut there...

I've done well with and without burnt ends. I won't put them in the box if they aren't good.

Q-Dat
04-10-2012, 01:34 PM
We have no problem turning in a brisket box without burnt ends, but we prefer to.. if they're up to par.
Our standard is... if they don't make us roll our eyes back when we taste them, they aren't going in cuz we did something wrong.
It does bother my that a judge mentioned earlier that sometimes what gets turned in is nothing but a mouthful of gristle. There is no gristle in a brisket. Worries me that they don't know what they are eating.


I guess it depends on your definition of "gristle" to alot of folks that means anything in a piece of meat that isn't meat, and is tough to chew. The heavy strands of connective tissue in the point of a brisket fit that description if it hasn't been cooked long enough to break down.

SHBBQ
04-10-2012, 01:44 PM
I'd say it depends on the entry. Rib to rib out of the same or different racks will vary. However, even though six chicken thighs didn't come from the same chicken, I can make them taste like they did very easily. Chicken is probably the easiest thing to duplicate, especially during the same cook. My belief is that chicken scores should be consistent enough across judges at the same table that you shouldn't see more than 2 point swings from high to low.

Totally agree, attention to detail and consistency is the key to success in barbecue.

I just think it is counter productive to take judging as anything more than constructive criticism when the scores do not go my way so to speak.

Scores should motivate us all to do better and challenge our selves more. Although it can be maddening at times, I can look at a lower score than expected and know that I did all I could that day during that cook to make it my best. If the judges do not agree so be it, I'll just try harder next time.

roksmith
04-10-2012, 02:56 PM
I guess it depends on your definition of "gristle" to alot of folks that means anything in a piece of meat that isn't meat, and is tough to chew. The heavy strands of connective tissue in the point of a brisket fit that description if it hasn't been cooked long enough to break down.

Gristle is cartilage. Not just undercooked connective tissue. Unless somebody is cooking something other than a brisket, there is no gristle in there.

Q-Dat
04-10-2012, 03:20 PM
Gristle is cartilage. Not just undercooked connective tissue. Unless somebody is cooking something other than a brisket, there is no gristle in there.

I agree, but to many people(myself included) that undercooked connective tissue is every bit as unpleasant to chew as a piece of cartilage. Whatever anyone wants to call it, its nasty. If I consistently judged "burnt ends" like that, then I wouldn't be optimistic about them either.

roksmith
04-10-2012, 03:24 PM
It is that. How anybody can turn in undercooked burnt ends in I'll never know, I'm usually fishing around just to find 6 that will hold together long enough to put them in the box?