PDA

View Full Version : Looking for insight on specialty pork butts.


Leatherheadiowa
02-24-2012, 06:55 PM
I am looking for some honest advice and input when it comes to high quality competition pork. *Being from Iowa, having many friends that raise pigs, and having massive pork supplies at reasonable prices readily available I have never thought I would need to upgrade to a higher quality of pork.
I was recently put in touch with a custom pork producer here in Iowa. *We spoke about the needs of bbq competitors in terms of pork. *I explained what I would like and the head of purchasing and packing said he would be happy to butcher to those exact specs.
Today I received two, 11 pound avg. pork butts, cut from the second rib with 1/4" fat left on. *
I opened one cryopac and took numerous photos, including the massive money muscle. *From what I have seen in person and online this product looks similar to Snake River Farms and Eden Farms products.
If anyone would like to take a look at my photos and see the product for yourself please send me a private message.
I guess I would like to know what people that regularly buy Snake River Farms and other custom cuts of pork look for and what I should look for in this Iowa raised pork.
Thanks a bunch!

luckyduk
02-24-2012, 07:26 PM
Why not post the pics for all to see?

Leatherheadiowa
02-24-2012, 08:02 PM
I hope these phots look alright. I do pharmaceutical research, not photography...:pray:

MilitantSquatter
02-24-2012, 08:06 PM
what do you mean "cut from the second rib" ?

big..

maybe a pic is a bit deceiving but it looks a bit lean compared to the avg butt at RD.

Leatherheadiowa
02-24-2012, 08:10 PM
Cutting closer to the neck at the second rib instead of the standard packing cut allows for more of the money muscle to be harvested from the carcass.

dmprantz
02-24-2012, 08:21 PM
The thing you have to be careful for is how legal the kcbs would consider that cut.

landarc
02-24-2012, 08:28 PM
I do not typically compete, but, I do prefer heritage hogs for cooking and eating. My comments:

Berkshire Black (Kurobuta)-meat has a pure white fat, it renders well and the product will end up meaty but with noticeable fatty mouthfeel. The meat is a little more red, and a little stronger in flavor than commodity pork. There is more fat, but, I do not believe it changed cooking times appreciably. This is a great flavor and fat pork. The shoulders make a great pulled or chopped product. Typically the butts are smaller than commodity pork.

Duroc-another fine pork, with a fine white fat and a lighter pink color, similar in appearance to commodity pork. This pork has typically taken less time to render and cook for me. The flavor is outstanding and the cut is a little longer and narrower than Berkshire Black. I really like the bellies, as they are narrow and lean, makes for a delicate cut. Again, smaller than your typical commodity hog cut.

Halukka-exclusive hybrid breed for Beeler's pork in Indiana, an amazing and flavorful butt, with good white fat, these have run larger than heritage hogs cuts, and darker pink than commodity pork. I really like this pork and will buy them when I can. They cook slower but, are much more flavorful and produce a product with less of a fatty mouthfeel. I do not like these pulled into strings, they seem to dry out a bit as they cool.

Niman Ranch, will not disclose breed, but, they are from largely Indiana and Iowa farmers, and the pork is outstanding. These are typically grown for chops, thus the shoulders I have found have been larger than most, with noticeable marbling and great texture. I really like these pulled into larger chunks for eating. Like the Halluka, not a great stringed up pork product.

Landrace, I am not sure which one, I believe the farmer I was buying them from was using Dutch Landrace, but, I have forgotten. These were large butts, with lean meat between veins of very white fat. These cooked up amazingly well, sadly, I have not seen it on the market of late. The young woman who was farming these may have gotten out of the business. These were great butts to work with, and made the best pulled pork product I have had.

Hope that helped. I would gladly compete with any of these. I have used the Snake River farms chops, but, not the butts. I believe it is a straigth Kurobuta (Berkshire Black hog) with selective processing.

Leatherheadiowa
02-24-2012, 08:29 PM
Yeah, we don't need to revisit that issue. Item #10 in the KCBS rules looks to be followed, and appears that this cut is no different than SRF or EF, or any other high dollar Kurobuta pork.

Slamdunkpro
02-24-2012, 10:18 PM
Yeah, we don't need to revisit that issue. Item #10 in the KCBS rules looks to be followed, and appears that this cut is no different than SRF or EF, or any other high dollar Kurobuta pork.

That's a nice looking roast, but it's not a IMPS 406 Boston Butt (according to IMPS). In the US the carcass has to be broken no further than the first rostal rib, or the neck shall be removed by a straight cut approximately parallel to the loin side, immediately anterior to the half moon muscle (M. pectorales profundus - the money muscle).


An awayyyyyy we go............:pop2:

ModelMaker
02-25-2012, 06:31 AM
That's a nice looking roast, but it's not a IMPS 406 Boston Butt (according to IMPS). In the US the carcass has to be broken no further than the first rostal rib, or the neck shall be removed by a straight cut approximately parallel to the loin side, immediately anterior to the half moon muscle (M. pectorales profundus - the money muscle).


An awayyyyyy we go............:pop2:


Wow, that's quite the technical rebuttal!
Is there a rep in the land who might inspect that chunk-o-meat and declare it illegal?
Ed

GreenDrake
02-25-2012, 07:59 AM
I have cooked kurobuta butts and plan on doing so again this year, they are phenomenal. The fat is much creamier and renders quite well.

Meat Man
02-25-2012, 08:23 AM
We used kurobuta at Havasu with great results. I don't think upon inspection one would think other than "Man that's a big butt".

Landarc that a great breakdown.

Slamdunkpro
02-25-2012, 09:14 AM
Wow, that's quite the technical rebuttal!
Is there a rep in the land who might inspect that chunk-o-meat and declare it illegal?
Ed
That's the whole issue with the pork rule as written, unless you're a butcher, are willing to stick a needle probe in the butt to measure the depth of the money muscle relative to the blade bone, or are looking at a 406 butt and a long cut butt side by side there's no way to tell.

INmitch
02-25-2012, 09:31 AM
To each his own......butt (pun intended)........I myself couldn't make that walk after getting a call for something that might be remotely stretching the rules. I'll stick to adding trophies to the shelf with my IBP's.:icon_shy

Rich Parker
02-25-2012, 09:41 AM
I am sure that it is some really good pork but in the case of money muscles, size doesn't always matter....its how you cook it. :thumb:

ModelMaker
02-25-2012, 09:57 AM
I am sure that it is some really good pork but in the case of money muscles, size doesn't always matter....its how you cook it. :thumb:


That's what she said!!!!
Ed

Scottie
02-25-2012, 10:00 AM
To each his own......butt (pun intended)........I myself couldn't make that walk after getting a call for something that might be remotely stretching the rules. I'll stick to adding trophies to the shelf with my IBP's.:icon_shy



I'd much rather BBQr's be more like pro golfers and police ourselves, than NASCAR teams that break and push the rules. I couldn't live with myself if I knowingly break the rules to gain an advantage. If I want to win, it won't be by me cheating.

daveinwestmont
02-25-2012, 12:42 PM
I'd much rather BBQr's be more like pro golfers and police ourselves, than NASCAR teams that break and push the rules. I couldn't live with myself if I knowingly break the rules to gain an advantage. If I want to win, it won't be by me cheating.


Badges, what badges? We don't need no stinking badges!!!!!

Leatherheadiowa
02-25-2012, 01:29 PM
I believe that there a great deal of good comments here. From what I understand from this packer/ producer this is a typical way of cutting for them. The explanation is the fact they they leave less for grinding and waste. The producer specializes in one particular product that is far from the shoulder so anything they can sell after they harvest what they want for their primary product is a big plus.
I noticed last night while injecting it (Smoker on Wheels Pork Injection) that the long muscle tissue allowed for easy injecting and the striations kept a massive amount of the liquid in the meat. The fat that was left on was quite different compared to the butts I am used to. The pliability and density was much less that my past purchases.
Lastly, the size of the money muscle was large and had great fat striations through it. I understand that the size isn't always imperative but I have had better luck with slices of money muscle with a diameter of 1 1/2" rather than a 1" piece. Scottie is right when he says the size doesn't matter if you don't cook it correctly, and I believe that applies to every piece of meat.

Slamdunkpro
02-25-2012, 03:55 PM
From what I understand from this packer/ producer this is a typical way of cutting for them. The explanation is the fact they they leave less for grinding and waste.
I'm not trying to start a fight or a pissing match but this contradicts what you said in your first post.
*I explained what I would like and the head of purchasing and packing said he would be happy to butcher to those exact specs.
Today I received two, 11 pound avg. pork butts, cut from the second rib with 1/4" fat left on. * (bold added)
Cut from the second rib is not an IMPS cut. Did you spec cut from the 2nd rib? if so you spec'd an illegal butt. From the 2nd or 3rd rib is a European or Japanese break, it's not typically done here.

Leatherheadiowa
02-25-2012, 04:40 PM
I did ask for a larger than normal butt and a product that had a nice fat cap along with being fresh. *When they Fedex'd me the meat I called to talk to the packer and they explained my products specs. *It was like me asking the gas station clerk for a winning lottery ticket last Tuesday morning, except she did sell me a $100 winner. *
In 1998 I learned to butcher from a German immigrant in Northern Iowa. *The cut that was sent to me was the same cut I used in my butchering since then. *For an old German butcher to cut that way makes me wonder why it is called Japanese.
I am not sure how this cut I got from my new found source compares to the 13-17 pound butts I had been purchasing from a local food service company *differs. *We have always had huge butts with nice money muscles from U.S. Foodservice and Hawkeye Food Service.
Would it matter who was doing the actual cutting at the Hormel, IBP, JBS, or other packing plant? *I would guess that human involvement at the plant often leads to poor quality or great quality butts and being diligent in meat selection process rather than someone going out to buy collars. *I have a packing plant that I can purchase fresh killed never frozen butts 12 minutes from my farm that I have found great product as well.
As long as rule #10 in the KCBS rule book is followed then nobody should have anything to worry about.

Slamdunkpro
02-25-2012, 05:42 PM
So did you ask them to cut it from the 2nd rib or not?

Leatherheadiowa
02-25-2012, 05:52 PM
Nope. Guess I didn't need to, I got some fancy Japanese cut of pork from a custom meat plant in Iowa when I really went looking for a large butt from premium stock with good marbling. Enough said. I will see a CBJ instructor and pork buyer next weekend maybe he can shed some light on the question about custom cuts.:razz:

Slamdunkpro
02-25-2012, 06:05 PM
Fair enough, so you have enough experience to tell when a butt is cut long vs a standard butt. This is the kind of knowledge that KCBS reps and inspectors need to acquire if they're going to leave rule 10 as vague as it is now.

This thread is the perfect example on why rule 10 needs to be either defined better or opened up to any pork except ribs as Dr. BBQ suggested in the pork collar thread
:focus:

swamprb
02-25-2012, 09:21 PM
...Well, being from Iowa, at least you should know where your Pork Collars come from!

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t310/swamprb/BSC%20Sausage/IMG_3314.jpg

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t310/swamprb/BSC%20Sausage/IMG_3313.jpg

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t310/swamprb/BSC%20Sausage/IMG_3343.jpg

..just sayin'!

Leatherheadiowa
02-25-2012, 09:34 PM
Boyden is way to far to drive for pork. I would rather pick it up closer to home. I wish I had known it was under my nose all this time.:loco:

swamprb
02-25-2012, 10:16 PM
We used Boneless Berkshire butts last year. All in the 8-10 lb. range. Finished 4th Overall in Pork 2011 PNWBA. Not bad since we started the season out on a Klose and finished on WSM's.

bluewhackadoo
02-26-2012, 04:32 PM
That's some nice color on the butt fat. Where are you finding those around these parts?