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Bourbon Barrel BBQ
01-24-2012, 12:01 PM
??? You must be a frustrated champion BBQ cook, you sure seem to be flip flipping a bit.

Maybe one day we will end up at same contest, and when I walk and you don't, I'll be happy to give you some tips. :becky:

Podge is the world champion not me. He cooks with a backwoods and a guru. For somebody to try and diminish his accomplishment is garbage.

Bourbon Barrel BBQ
01-24-2012, 12:03 PM
No, That's absoluetly what you said. Specifically, YOURS is worth more than anyone.:thumb: And because I dodn't cook as much as you, my opinion is just 'sour grapes...


I haven't won because I haven't given the judges what they wanted. But, I also cook the way I WANT to. I choose to be honest about BBQ and not use anything that eases the cooking process because I feel it is dishonorable to 'win at any cost.' But, clearly you don't suffer those same morals. And good for you. I certianly don't begrudge anyone for doing, what I consider cheating, if they are only in this to win. I have a good job to make my money. BBQ is a matter of pride to me. If I cook my way, turn in what I consider to be my best and finish DAL knowing I DID IT WITHOUT electric, then so be it.

KCB$ allowing gas is going to make money for the organization and the cooks that are already winning. But, it isn't going to do anything to celebrate, teach, preserve and promote barbeque as a culinary technique, sport and art form. It's going to make the checks bigger. If that's what you Q for, good for you.

If you had any idea the kind of work involved to reach that level you wouldn't throw the word cheat around so easily.

bbqbull
01-24-2012, 12:11 PM
Moderator Note; Please stop the accusations and keep this thread on track.

Thanks!

Lake Dogs
01-24-2012, 12:26 PM
Guys.... C'mon. Seriously, lets not argue about whether one person thinks it's cheating to use a pellet pooper or not. Under the current rules it's legal in the game as defined by KCBS; either compete in it or not, it's all our choice.

I hope KCBS doesnt allow it, personally. As a competitor frankly I dont care what my opponents cook on. If they sleep at night, more power to them. I do hope, honestly, that they have alarms, etc. on those in case of a flame out or burn up situation. We each have our preferred styles, and I'll stick to my offset smoker because I love it (but if anyone wants to give me a Stumps, I'll glady accept the gift and use it often). If KCBS allows gas, I'll still compete and enjoy it. Frankly, I'll probably bring my really nice Weber Genesis and use it for a warmer and/or get those chicken skins right where I want 'em... But, that's me and competing.

However, while I dont care whether they allow it or not, going back to their "to celebrate, teach, preserve and promote barbecue as a culinary technique, sport and art form.", I dont think allowing gas fits this model at all. That's my personal opinion, and I'll stick to it. If people win using gas, more power to them. Myron Mixon will probably have something to say about judges and the judging though! :-)

Lake Dogs
01-24-2012, 12:28 PM
Thanks Bull!!

tmcmaster
01-24-2012, 12:38 PM
If you had any idea the kind of work involved to reach that level you wouldn't throw the word cheat around so easily.
I said I certianly don't begrudge anyone for doing, what I consider cheating.
And, I guess I just have no idea what kind of work it takes, since I am not a real cook, since I don't cook enough contests a year for you to value my opinion.:clap2:

But, to keep this on topic, I won't be renewing my KCB$ membership if and when they allow gas as a cooking fuel. I feel that strongly. I am also considering the possibility of establishing a new, all natural sanctioning body...

Lake Dogs
01-24-2012, 01:03 PM
Tim, trust me, NOBODY wants to see many of us "all natural"!!!! :-P

Jorge
01-24-2012, 01:07 PM
I do about 6 contests a year too. (sometimes up to 8, but plan on 6) I do not consider myself a casual cook. I take it very seriously and as a hard, challenging, competition. KCBS rules are the rules. If you abide by their rules you are not cheating. I do not understand why this discussion is happening? Unless KCBS says I cannot cook with my backwoods with a guru attached, I will continue to do so shamelessly. If they change the rules to allow gas, that’s fine by me, and if they change the rules to all stick burners, I’ll get one of those.

Having seen the picture of you shamefully wiping down a mutual friends Jambo, I believe this!:-P

Bourbon Barrel BBQ
01-24-2012, 01:12 PM
[QUOTE=tmcmaster;1924927

But, to keep this on topic, I won't be renewing my KCB$ membership if and when they allow gas as a cooking fuel. I feel that strongly. I am also considering the possibility of establishing a new, all natural sanctioning body...[/QUOTE]

I think that's a great idea. More contest the better. Just don't be surprised if the same guys that are winning now show up and take home the hardware.

tmcmaster
01-24-2012, 01:35 PM
I think that's a great idea. More contest the better. Just don't be surprised if the same guys that are winning now show up and take home the hardware.
Last year's Go Naked had a rookie team sweep, and obviously GC it. :clap2: And a team that is traditionally a Guru assited team that walks everywhere place 12th. So, it does make a difference...

Bourbon Barrel BBQ
01-24-2012, 01:42 PM
Last year's Go Naked had a rookie team sweep, and obviously GC it. :clap2: And a team that is traditionally a Guru assited team that walks everywhere place 12th. So, it does make a difference...

Is it just chicken an ribs?

CarolinaQue
01-24-2012, 05:01 PM
Finally...a pizzin' contest I didn't start!!!:-P:becky::thumb:

As to the OP...I really don't care(as long as it's done safely). As is well known, they already allow guru's and pellet cookers. Is cooking with gas really that much different?

I personally don't use all the gadgets, I like the challenge of a stick burner and honestly feel that BBQ tastes better off of a stick burner. But, we all know that the rules will never be reveresed to what they were when KCBS first started. I honestly think that it's only a matter of time before it happens.

Pappy Q
01-24-2012, 05:24 PM
I do about 6 contests a year too. (sometimes up to 8, but plan on 6) I do not consider myself a casual cook. I take it very seriously and as a hard, challenging, competition. KCBS rules are the rules. If you abide by their rules you are not cheating. I do not understand why this discussion is happening? Unless KCBS says I cannot cook with my backwoods with a guru attached, I will continue to do so shamelessly. If they change the rules to allow gas, that’s fine by me, and if they change the rules to all stick burners, I’ll get one of those.

See even a World Champion can be a casual cook :-D

When your ready for that stick burner holler and I'll bring mine over to you buddy.

tmcmaster
01-24-2012, 07:40 PM
Is it just chicken an ribs?
Well because it is, as it is only a 1 day event in early April, does it meet your criteria for a real contest... :confused:

But, yes, Go Naked is a chicken and ribs (and peoples choice) event.

Bourbon Barrel BBQ
01-24-2012, 11:57 PM
Well because it is, as it is only a 1 day event in early April, does it meet your criteria for a real contest... :confused:

But, yes, Go Naked is a chicken and ribs (and peoples choice) event.

No I just wondered why only chicken and ribs. I thought tending fires all night was the purpose of all this banter?

SHBBQ
01-25-2012, 01:43 AM
I think logistically it would be a nightmare. Just the fire code enforcement alone would be insane for contest organizers and KCBS Reps.

SHBBQ
01-25-2012, 02:54 AM
In regards to the BBQ purists...I have nothing but respect for tradition...but let's face it...the stick burners used today are nothing close to purist BBQ...if you want pure...dig a pit!

Then...

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-4hPN2t1YIPk/Tv5q2uJdLVI/AAAAAAAAGMs/QsO54voKwjo/s1600/BBQcoloPITw.jpg

Now...

http://www.jambopits.com/J5-2_op_669x446.jpg

A lot of folks wanting to get in to competition BBQ only know BBQ as what was cooked in their backyard on a gasser or charcoal grill. When I was a kid growing up my idea of bbq was a burned hot dog or hamburger on the 4th of July. BBQ has evolved...much in the same way as the technology that allows us to chit chat with each other about our hobby/profession/obsession every day via the internet. The tools that we use today to produce BBQ are no different than the ones our ancestors used...pit...fire...spices. The only difference is that our tools have evolved. To say that competition BBQ is true or purist BBQ is a stretch of the imagination as well...again...it has evolved...I don't believe our forefathers injected their pork butt or briskets, trimmed their ribs "St Louis" style, or scraped chicken skin...:cool:
I think all self proclaimed purists should have reply to this thread via telegram. Just saying! ;)

TooSaucedToPork
01-25-2012, 11:23 AM
So this emotional roller coaster of a thread spun wildly out of control. Didn’t see that coming:heh:

In my opinion there are 2 basic arguments here ya’ll – Both should be decided by the membership, and NOT the board as it affects all of us…

The first basic argument here is “What constitutes American BBQ”

If KCBS agrees that “true” BBQ can be made with gas and electric, then that is KCBS’s definition of American BBQ.
If KCBS agrees that “true” BBQ can ONLY be made with wood and charcoal, then that is KCBS’s definition of American BBQ.

If after the MEMBERSHIP of KCBS votes and renders a decision you find undesirable, and you want to jump ship, then the MBN, MIM, and others would be happy to take you…they allow only wood and charcoal.

Honestly that is what this all comes down to…a democratic decision of the KCBS organization’s definition of American BBQ.

From Webster dictionary:

2barbecue verb
barbecues; barbecued; barbecu·ing : to cook (food) on a barbecue : to broil or roast (meat, fish, etc.) over hot coals or an open fire [+ obj] ▪ We barbecued chicken and ribs. [no obj] ▪ We barbecue often during the summer.
— barbecued adjective
▪ They served barbecued chicken/shrimp/pork at the cookout.

But here is a great history/definition and the article I always direct people to
http://www.amazingribs.com/BBQ_articles/barbecue_defined.html

The second is the safety of Propane

We have all seen propane accidents at contests, some of us have been in them.

If the first resolution above is passed then the second would need to be addressed. Whether it be trained safety officers, pit restrictions, the restructuring of contests into divisions, or just turning a blind eye (what we do now)…Rules would need to be implemented and penalties would actually need to be enforced.

That’s the bottom line ya’ll. It all comes down to what KCBS will define as BBQ, the rest is just the implementation of Policy and Procedure.

tmcmaster
01-25-2012, 11:46 AM
No I just wondered why only chicken and ribs. I thought tending fires all night was the purpose of all this banter?
It's a small contest, early in the season and the logistics of our location over 2 days doesn't work. I would love to see us move it to a 2 day, 4 meat event, as would most of the competitors, but the logistics prevent it (for now).

Lake Dogs
01-25-2012, 11:55 AM
i think all self proclaimed purists should have reply to this thread via telegram. Just saying! ;)


- .. -- --..-- / - .-. ..- ... - / -- . --..-- / -. --- -... --- -.. -.-- / .-- .- -. - ... / - --- / ... . . / -- .- -. -.-- / --- ..-. / ..- ... / .-..-. .- .-.. .-.. / -. .- - ..- .-. .- .-.. .-..-.

boogiesnap
01-25-2012, 12:21 PM
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now thats farkin funny.

can't read it to save my life, :doh:, but funny, nonetheless.

TooSaucedToPork
01-25-2012, 12:33 PM
now thats farkin funny.

can't read it to save my life, :doh:, but funny, nonetheless.

"TIM, TRUST ME, NOBODY WANTS TO SEE MANY OF US "ALL NATURAL""

Hahaha

carlyle
01-25-2012, 12:49 PM
Too Sauced- Thank you for accurately summing up the crux of this conversation. Well put.

I don't know if any of the other posters to this thread were also in the rules meeting in SanDiego where this issue surfaced again.

My sense of things from where I sat in that meeting was that KCBS was not going to act on this without input from the members. I did not think that the BOD was going to just ram a decision through. I don't think they could if some wanted to. The BOD was just as divided and passionate on this subject as the rest of us.

I thought that this topic needed the widest possible audience and the broadest possible response. That is why I started this thread on the Brethren.

And the Brethren has not disappointed. The volume of your response, the passions expressed, and diversity of opinions put forth has been great. And I do not think you are done yet.

It is certain that KCBS has noticed what we are saying. And that is good for them, and good for us as well.

Lake Dog - I love your humor and cleverness. Now if I could just remember Morse Code that I learned in Boy Scouts so many years ago. Just too funny!

From the looks of things, I don't think this tread is ready to wind down.

Too Sauced - it only seems wildly out of control. Those moderators have a firm hand on the wheel and the brakes.

Alexa RnQ
01-25-2012, 01:56 PM
The dictionary definition above is illuminating. And as TSTP pointed out, the pivotal issue for KCBS is their definition of BBQ.

I don't think gas grilling is any more or less popular now than when I was a kid. My dad was "backward" for using charcoal, and an electric starter to avoid lighter fluid. It seemed like everybody else had shiny steel propane grills suitable for photoshoot-style backyard parties with a manly apron-clad chef balancing a martini while flipping meat products on the grate. In fact, in our part of the country "BBQ" meant anything grilled outdoors. I was old and gray before I learned that in the rest of the country, "barbecue" carried some very particular notions with it.

Some of those deeply ingrained notions are the use of wood or charcoal as a heat source. Perhaps that's why KCBS drew the line there in its definition, maybe at that time and place the thought of anything else was utterly and completely heretical. Certainly the use of wood or charcoal is consonant with tradition; fire management is an art to be mastered. With the use of wood or charcoal, endeavor and experience are rewarded whether the result is awards at a contest or simply a superior product produced at home to the approbation of family and friends.

While inclusivity is often a good thing, its value declines when it dilutes or modifies the very heart of the concept. And yes, the boundaries are fuzzy -- for some the line is drawn at forced draft, or at thermostats, or wherever. But the bottom line, the KCBS definition line as it has existed, is at the use of wood or charcoal.

So for a haggard old bat who grew up thinking that grilling steak or shrimp was BBQ, I have somehow found my heart anchored to the use of wood or charcoal. I'd like to think that there will be more involved than flipping a switch and listening to a hiss and click-click-click-fwoosh. The history, the tradition, the charms and frustrations and satisfaction of "real fire" sucked me in. Do we really think that the masses are incapable of appreciating it, that they will never be capable of anything other than installing a full tank, that we must collect a membership fee, hand them a "participation" ribbon and say "You can be BBQ too"?

I hope not. Yes, there's been a lot of renewed interest in cooking outdoors. I can take a lot of different products and techniques outdoors, and cook them on a propane grill or even over wood or charcoal, and that doesn't make them BBQ. BBQ is more than just the heat source -- it's traditional fuels, and traditional foods, and a legacy of understanding both intimately under varying conditions, not just following a recipe saying "turn your grill's dial to number 3".

So while riding that groundswell of interest in outdoor cooking can certainly benefit KCBS, I don't think "capitalizing by capitulating" and allowing propane is in its best interest, or the best interest of its constituents. Many of us have had it drilled into us that it's folly to "dilute the brand" or alienate your core group. This issue feels like both, frankly.

It is my hope that KCBS will stand by its core concept. It has weathered teapot-tempests over garnish, and scoring, and technological additions, and myriad other things; but the center, the definition of fuel source, has held. That link with history has been maintained, even if the face of modern BBQ is somewhat changed. Let's not let that last vestige of tradition slip away.

BigBellyBBQ
01-25-2012, 06:47 PM
So this emotional roller coaster of a thread spun wildly out of control. Didn’t see that coming:heh:

In my opinion there are 2 basic arguments here ya’ll – Both should be decided by the membership, and NOT the board as it affects all of us…

The first basic argument here is “What constitutes American BBQ”

If KCBS agrees that “true” BBQ can be made with gas and electric, then that is KCBS’s definition of American BBQ.
If KCBS agrees that “true” BBQ can ONLY be made with wood and charcoal, then that is KCBS’s definition of American BBQ.

If after the MEMBERSHIP of KCBS votes and renders a decision you find undesirable, and you want to jump ship, then the MBN, MIM, and others would be happy to take you…they allow only wood and charcoal.

Honestly that is what this all comes down to…a democratic decision of the KCBS organization’s definition of American BBQ.

From Webster dictionary:

2barbecue verb
barbecues; barbecued; barbecu·ing : to cook (food) on a barbecue : to broil or roast (meat, fish, etc.) over hot coals or an open fire [+ obj] ▪ We barbecued chicken and ribs. [no obj] ▪ We barbecue often during the summer.
— barbecued adjective
▪ They served barbecued chicken/shrimp/pork at the cookout.

But here is a great history/definition and the article I always direct people to
http://www.amazingribs.com/BBQ_articles/barbecue_defined.html

The second is the safety of Propane

We have all seen propane accidents at contests, some of us have been in them.

If the first resolution above is passed then the second would need to be addressed. Whether it be trained safety officers, pit restrictions, the restructuring of contests into divisions, or just turning a blind eye (what we do now)…Rules would need to be implemented and penalties would actually need to be enforced.

That’s the bottom line ya’ll. It all comes down to what KCBS will define as BBQ, the rest is just the implementation of Policy and Procedure.
Whoa, hats off to you too sauced, as I see you stayed awake in English class!!! nice job...
however I had to jump in on this and add my pennies worth...I have cooked on propane, wood, briqs, lump, pellet poppers..Backwoods with Guru...without Guru...my Southern Pride with gas and also I can cook great on the Pride with out gas so...and what i feel to add to this question is when I went back to the Southern Pride without the gas, a real BBQer can tell that propane was not used, even with the great SP, cooking without propane WAS a better taste, closer to a stick burner or the backwoods..
Even at home I try to cook on charcoal, I have a $$$2,000 stainless gas grill built in outside, and I use my Webber more, as the propane just will not get the job done...so if someone want s to be outside the top, let them use gas...and we can laugh at them!!! make it easier on us, as we will get the calls..
Now for safety, no home made rigs should be allowed, as just too many people around, the same goes for the flame throwers and ANYTHING connected to propane should have to be approved by UL or what is approved...we do not want to get into another thing for the organizers have to monitor, some contests do have fire marshalls walkiing around, and the penalty should be getting booted, this will then police itself..but do we really want ANOTHER thing to watched or rulled on??? If it is safety, then ALL propane should be banned, no turkey friers no flame throwers..no propane at ALL...except the small hand held torches, no 5 lb containers..
now for the propane side, I feel it could benefit all of us, as more companies might want to jump in and sponsor an event. Joe Q Public knows what a gasser is, hell I just come from Lowes and there was a truck, a big truck, unloading grills,,lots of grills that they will be setting up shortly to sell, and they were all propane..so if the organization can work it out, I feel it would bring teams in and also bring sponsors in..but it needs to be worked out so it does not bring a burden upon the event..
But if they are allowed to cook, so then the rest of us can lite our stcks and kick there arss!
Now my wife just jumped in...her idea is it took real skill and time to figure out how to time the burn and cook real que, propane should never be allowed..so this topic is really something to wrestle!!
But when you think about it, using a $200 to $$1,000 controler to run your "all nature fire box" or a " pellet popper" is that proper?
Anybody want to go in a back hoe?

tmcmaster
01-25-2012, 07:16 PM
But when you think about it, using a $200 to $$1,000 controler to run your "all nature fire box" or a " pellet popper" is that proper?
Anybody want to go in a back hoe?
Ummm... I say no... But, Apparently, I don't cook enough KCB$ sanctioned events to have an opinion...

Lake Dogs
01-25-2012, 08:07 PM
Thank you Diva. WONDERFULLY written!

If I might also add in, regarding "teapot-tempests over garnish, and scoring, and technological additions, and myriad other things", that most if not all of these storms centered around the competition aspect of barbecue and KCBS, not so much to the core of barbecue itself. While there are arguments for and against gas safety and whether it's "cheating" as some have said, I rather think it harkens to the basic definition of barbecue itself; what is and isn't barbecue. You hit the nail on the head with:

BBQ is more than just the heat source -- it's traditional fuels, and traditional foods, and a legacy of understanding both intimately under varying conditions, not just following a recipe saying "turn your grill's dial to number 3".

So, long n short, THANKS.

BigBellyBBQ
01-25-2012, 08:16 PM
Ummm... I say no... But, Apparently, I don't cook enough KCB$ sanctioned events to have an opinion...

I feel all of us who cook at least one event a year should have an opinion and yours is very important in what has an impact on all who compete..

SirPorkaLot
01-25-2012, 08:32 PM
I feel all of us who cook at least one event a year should have an opinion and yours is very important in what has an impact on all who compete..

Now that's just plain heresy.
We have already been informed in this thread, that even if we are KCBS members in good standing, if we don't cook at least XX number (exact quantity still to be determined) events a year, then we are mere Casual Cooks, and as such our opinion does not matter.

Unless of course one of those "casual cooks" we were awarded GC on, then we are exempt from said minimum events.

:tsk:

CarolinaQue
01-25-2012, 09:56 PM
Just a quick question since it's been brought up that this should be a KCBS member body decision...

Was the decision to allow Guru's and other force draft technology brought to the member body also? I truly am curious as I wasn't involved in competition BBQ when that all took place. I'm just wondering if as much consideration was given to the members for those types of decisions?

dmprantz
01-25-2012, 09:59 PM
We have already been informed in this thread, that even if we are KCBS members in good standing, if we don't cook at least XX number (exact quantity still to be determined) events a year, then we are mere Casual Cooks, and as such our opinion does not matter.

I honestly don't know if you truly believe what you wrote above, or if you're just trying sarcastically drive a point home. At the risk of stepping into a trap, I'd like to say as an outsider looking in, no such thing was said the way I read it.

It was said that that one would think a "casual cook" would care less about fuel source, and then you argued whether or not you are a casual cook. At one point, some one else guessed that the original person thought that those who cook less have less valuable opinions, but the first person said that wasn't what he meant. I'm not making this up, it's all in the thread. Really. No one said your opinion doesn't matter. What was said, was that those who cook the most complain the least, and that those who complain the most may do it as a built in "excuse" for losing. Never though that I can tell, was your opinion disregarded because you don't compete much. Let's all be honest with ourselves and leave out the finger pointing, eh?

dmp

dmprantz
01-25-2012, 11:47 PM
You know, I really don't want to get sucked into an argument here, but it makes no sense to me to say "I'm not trying to win, I'm just here to have a good time, but dammit those of you who are trying to win have to play by my rules."

Bourbon Barrel BBQ
01-26-2012, 12:02 AM
I honestly don't know if you truly believe what you wrote above, or if you're just trying sarcastically drive a point home. At the risk of stepping into a trap, I'd like to say as an outsider looking in, no such thing was said the way I read it.

It was said that that one would think a "casual cook" would care less about fuel source, and then you argued whether or not you are a casual cook. At one point, some one else guessed that the original person thought that those who cook less have less valuable opinions, but the first person said that wasn't what he meant. I'm not making this up, it's all in the thread. Really. No one said your opinion doesn't matter. What was said, was that those who cook the most complain the least, and that those who complain the most may do it as a built in "excuse" for losing. Never though that I can tell, was your opinion disregarded because you don't compete much. Let's all be honest with ourselves and leave out the finger pointing, eh?

dmp

I'm glad somebody read the post correctly. Thank You.

Bourbon Barrel BBQ
01-26-2012, 12:08 AM
You know, I really don't want to get sucked into an argument here, but it makes no sense to me to say "I'm not trying to win, I'm just here to have a good time, but dammit those of you who are trying to win have to play by my rules."

Couldn't have said it better.

Bourbon Barrel BBQ
01-26-2012, 12:14 AM
Ummm... I say no... But, Apparently, I don't cook enough KCB$ sanctioned events to have an opinion...

Was that decided before or after you told us you cook 10-12 per year?

Flavor Gangster
01-26-2012, 07:02 AM
Well, this is H I larious!.
All or none! Doesn't matter anyway, they don't train the judges to look for the gas flavor let alone any flavor or taste profile. It is all subjective right!
So behind the steel curtain where the sacred judging takes place, do you really think they are gonna know who prepared on LP, Pellets, Forced Air, Wood, Charcoal or Dehydrayed Cow Turds! No they will not.:tongue:

kihrer
01-26-2012, 08:00 AM
I'd just like to point out that there are still several teams winning on stick burners. Rod Gray, very much a top competitor, moved from pellets to a Jambo. I think the great cooks will continue to win no matter what they are cooking on or what others are cooking on.

smokeyw
01-26-2012, 08:07 AM
I believe this as well. It is all about the end product.

I'd just like to point out that there are still several teams winning on stick burners. Rod Gray, very much a top competitor, moved from pellets to a Jambo. I think the great cooks will continue to win no matter what they are cooking on or what others are cooking on.

tmcmaster
01-26-2012, 08:15 AM
Back on topic, apart from the LP/Propane safety concerns, which I think should be paramount to the decsion, part of KCB$' mission is to " preserve and promote barbeque as a culinary technique, sport and art form..." To me, this indicates that a certian amount of reverence and respect should be paid to the 'sanctity' of tradition. In this, the key word to me is PRESERVE.
I see no reason why, should the goal be to increase membership, sponsorship, interest and purses, to have a seperate sanctioning arm of KCBS (I think someone previously mentioned a Kansas City Grilling Society) that oversees any fuel, gas, coal, wool, pellets, plutonium, what ever. Heck, that even opens up the possibility for an 'Undisputed' award, a yearly contest that brings together the top teams of the KCBS and KCGS (or what ever)... Just my thoughts.
:thumb:

tmcmaster
01-26-2012, 08:16 AM
Well, this is H I larious!.
All or none! Doesn't matter anyway, they don't train the judges to look for the gas flavor let alone any flavor or taste profile. It is all subjective right!
So behind the steel curtain where the sacred judging takes place, do you really think they are gonna know who prepared on LP, Pellets, Forced Air, Wood, Charcoal or Dehydrayed Cow Turds! No they will not.:tongue:

Ummm... that one they MAY be able to pick out...:becky:

tmcmaster
01-26-2012, 08:25 AM
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Dude... why would you say that about my momma?!?!!?:heh:

Lakeside Smoker
01-26-2012, 09:18 AM
...respect should be paid to the 'sanctity' of tradition.

Sorry man, but the 'sanctity' of tradition has nothing to do with competition BBQ. They have zero in common with each other.

FWIW, I compete on a homemade smoker but I don't think everyone should use one to make it fair.

-Mike

tmcmaster
01-26-2012, 09:58 AM
Sorry man, but the 'sanctity' of tradition has nothing to do with competition BBQ. They have zero in common with each other.

FWIW, I compete on a homemade smoker but I don't think everyone should use one to make it fair.

-Mike
I mention the part of KCB$' mission stement to " preserve and promote barbeque as a culinary technique, sport and art form..." as justification for my feeling that the sanctity of BBQ be maintained. Because it is in their mission statement.

Lake Dogs
01-26-2012, 11:40 AM
The dictionary definition above is illuminating. And as TSTP pointed out, the pivotal issue for KCBS is their definition of BBQ.

I don't think gas grilling is any more or less popular now than when I was a kid. My dad was "backward" for using charcoal, and an electric starter to avoid lighter fluid. It seemed like everybody else had shiny steel propane grills suitable for photoshoot-style backyard parties with a manly apron-clad chef balancing a martini while flipping meat products on the grate. In fact, in our part of the country "BBQ" meant anything grilled outdoors. I was old and gray before I learned that in the rest of the country, "barbecue" carried some very particular notions with it.

Some of those deeply ingrained notions are the use of wood or charcoal as a heat source. Perhaps that's why KCBS drew the line there in its definition, maybe at that time and place the thought of anything else was utterly and completely heretical. Certainly the use of wood or charcoal is consonant with tradition; fire management is an art to be mastered. With the use of wood or charcoal, endeavor and experience are rewarded whether the result is awards at a contest or simply a superior product produced at home to the approbation of family and friends.

While inclusivity is often a good thing, its value declines when it dilutes or modifies the very heart of the concept. And yes, the boundaries are fuzzy -- for some the line is drawn at forced draft, or at thermostats, or wherever. But the bottom line, the KCBS definition line as it has existed, is at the use of wood or charcoal.

So for a haggard old bat who grew up thinking that grilling steak or shrimp was BBQ, I have somehow found my heart anchored to the use of wood or charcoal. I'd like to think that there will be more involved than flipping a switch and listening to a hiss and click-click-click-fwoosh. The history, the tradition, the charms and frustrations and satisfaction of "real fire" sucked me in. Do we really think that the masses are incapable of appreciating it, that they will never be capable of anything other than installing a full tank, that we must collect a membership fee, hand them a "participation" ribbon and say "You can be BBQ too"?

I hope not. Yes, there's been a lot of renewed interest in cooking outdoors. I can take a lot of different products and techniques outdoors, and cook them on a propane grill or even over wood or charcoal, and that doesn't make them BBQ. BBQ is more than just the heat source -- it's traditional fuels, and traditional foods, and a legacy of understanding both intimately under varying conditions, not just following a recipe saying "turn your grill's dial to number 3".

So while riding that groundswell of interest in outdoor cooking can certainly benefit KCBS, I don't think "capitalizing by capitulating" and allowing propane is in its best interest, or the best interest of its constituents. Many of us have had it drilled into us that it's folly to "dilute the brand" or alienate your core group. This issue feels like both, frankly.

It is my hope that KCBS will stand by its core concept. It has weathered teapot-tempests over garnish, and scoring, and technological additions, and myriad other things; but the center, the definition of fuel source, has held. That link with history has been maintained, even if the face of modern BBQ is somewhat changed. Let's not let that last vestige of tradition slip away.


To the guys who really are passionate about embracing the change that would be allowing gas as a fuel source, please read this above and comment. I cannot think of a better written, better articulated stance on this. Frankly, I cannot write this well.:thumb:

Add in KCBS's mission statement. How does gas as a fuel source fit in to that? Isn't it almost by definition contrary?:doh:


Me, when I compete, I compete for the enjoyment of competition. I guess that defines me as a casual competitor, and I fit that description except I/we dont come to drink beer/bourbon; we always bring our A game. That's why I say, from that competitor in me, I couldn't give a rat's behind whether they allow gas or not. I wont use it. Those that do, great and good luck to them.

BUT, from the barbecue judge inside me, the guy that's passionate about barbecue itself, the art of it, as Diva said " it's traditional fuels, and traditional foods, and a legacy of understanding both intimately under varying conditions, not just following a recipe saying "turn your grill's dial to number 3"", that part of me is, frankly, insulted that they'd even humor such a crazy idea. Make it KCGS (for Kansas City Grilling Society) and lets go on. Change the name, modify the mission statement, bring on gas, lets rock!

Or, not.

CarolinaQue
01-26-2012, 11:59 AM
To the guys who really are passionate about embracing the change that would be allowing gas as a fuel source, please read this above and comment. I cannot think of a better written, better articulated stance on this. Frankly, I cannot write this well.:thumb:

Add in KCBS's mission statement. How does gas as a fuel source fit in to that? Isn't it almost by definition contrary?:doh:


Me, when I compete, I compete for the enjoyment of competition. I guess that defines me as a casual competitor, and I fit that description except I/we dont come to drink beer/bourbon; we've always bring our A game. That's why I say, from that competitor in me, I couldn't give a rat's behind whether they allow gas or not. I wont use it. Those that do, great and good luck to them.

BUT, from the barbecue judge inside me, the guy that's passionate about barbecue itself, the art of it, as Diva said " it's traditional fuels, and traditional foods, and a legacy of understanding both intimately under varying conditions, not just following a recipe saying "turn your grill's dial to number 3"", that part of me is, frankly, insulted that they'd even humor such a crazy idea. Make it KCGS (for Kansas City Grilling Society) and lets go on. Change the name, modify the mission statement, bring on gas, lets rock!

Or, not.


To what's in red...How is that different than filling a charcoal basket, plugging in and hooking up a stoker or guru, and setting the thermostat for a desired temp? Or better yet, plugging in a Trager, turning it on, and setting the thermostat? Are wood pellets considered "traditional fuels" just because they are made from compressed saw dust?


Although I agree with what Diva very eloquently wrote to a large degree, I also feel that KCBS started going down this slippery slope when they started allowing all of the gadget's and pellet cookers.

Lake Dogs
01-26-2012, 12:09 PM
It is a slippery slope, for certain. I'm not going to defend earlier decisions, especially those I disagree with, but they are made and so be it. The difference, to me, is that this one hasn't been made. There's perhaps a line in the sand to be drawn (on this slippery slope), and perhaps this is it. I hope so.

smokeyw
01-26-2012, 12:11 PM
^^^^ I agree with the above statement. I think KCBS cmpetitions have already passed the threshold of "traditional". We are using computerized air flow controllers, pellet poopers, digital thermometers, complex chemical injections, and even computer programs in different forms. Most of the people that I know, who are cooking with stick burners religiously, will use any technology available (other than another heat source) to be more competitive. We passed "traditional" long ago whether we will admit it or not. I hope the tradition and art of smoking with wood remains with us forever, and I think it will regardless if gas is allowed or not.

Jorge
01-26-2012, 12:12 PM
Interesting, and for the most part civil, debate. There are a few primary issues that continue to stand out, and if you feel I've missed something important please let me know:becky:

1) Safety is a concern for some/many. Got it.
2) Some define BBQ as a product, and others believe that it's a process.
2a) For those defining it as a process, equipment becomes a very important part of their reasoning in some cases.
3) Somebody is going to be upset, no matter what happens.

Does that oversimplify the issue?

CarolinaQue
01-26-2012, 12:36 PM
Interesting, and for the most part civil, debate. There are a few primary issues that continue to stand out, and if you feel I've missed something important please let me know:becky:

1) Safety is a concern for some/many. Got it.
2) Some define BBQ as a product, and others believe that it's a process.
2a) For those defining it as a process, equipment becomes a very important part of their reasoning in some cases.
3) Somebody is going to be upset, no matter what happens.

Does that oversimplify the issue?

I think ya nailed it!!!:becky::thumb:

CarolinaQue
01-26-2012, 12:43 PM
Just to be clear on where I stand ont he issue, I really don't care either way if they allow gas or not, as long as the safety issues are addressed properly. I'm just getting into the world of competitive cooking as last year was my first full year for the most part. And I think that I did pretty well (all things considered) with my stick burner my first year out. And I used no special gadgets other than a thermometer. I don't plan on changing my approach any time soon either. But I also feel that if the line has already been blurred, you really can't stop from erasing it.

But my question still hasn't been answered...Did KCBS give the membership body and their opinions and feelings this much validity when it was decided to allow forced draft air systems and pellet cookers?

Lake Dogs
01-26-2012, 12:45 PM
Interesting, and for the most part civil, debate. There are a few primary issues that continue to stand out, and if you feel I've missed something important please let me know:becky:

1) Safety is a concern for some/many. Got it.
2) Some define BBQ as a product, and others believe that it's a process.
2a) For those defining it as a process, equipment becomes a very important part of their reasoning in some cases.
3) Somebody is going to be upset, no matter what happens.

Does that oversimplify the issue?

I think you hit it, except that for some of us, on question 2, it's not one or the other, but both, the combination. One without the other, IMHO and from my personal perspective, isn't barbecue.

For example, you can slow cook fish on as old-school a smoker as you'd like, using only wood from a tree you gnawed with your own teeth, and to me fish isn't barbecue, because as Diva said it, it's not a traditional food.

Conversely, a fresh ham which is part of traditional barbecue, grilled (which would probably be ghastly) or cured surely isn't barbecue.

I think it's both. Take one out and you have smoked something (that isn't barbecue) or you have grilled meat that otherwise could've been barbecue'd.

Lake Dogs
01-26-2012, 12:51 PM
If I may, perhaps suggest this?:

1) Safety is a concern for some/many.

2) Some define BBQ as a product, and others believe that it's a process, and others think it's both.

2a) For those defining it as a process, equipment becomes a very important part of their reasoning in some cases.

2b) For those defining it as a product, equipment/fuel/etc isn't as important but the final product should be barbecue.

2c) For others it's the combination of the process of barbecuing as well as the traditional meats, the combination of which renders a product that is called "barbecue"

3) Somebody is going to be upset, no matter what happens.




To #2 above, there's probably another group who really doesnt care about either; ie. KCBS could change tomorrow to 3 categories cooking catfish and quail and venison flanks over electric coils in iron skillets and they'd be fine with it...

kihrer
01-26-2012, 12:58 PM
Just to be clear on where I stand ont he issue, I really don't care either way if they allow gas or not, as long as the safety issues are addressed properly. I'm just getting into the world of competitive cooking as last year was my first full year for the most part. And I think that I did pretty well (all things considered) with my stick burner my first year out. And I used no special gadgets other than a thermometer. I don't plan on changing my approach any time soon either. But I also feel that if the line has already been blurred, you really can't stop from erasing it.

But my question still hasn't been answered...Did KCBS give the membership body and their opinions and feelings this much validity when it was decided to allow forced draft air systems and pellet cookers?

If I had a vote I would vote "no" but if they change the rule I'll just go about business as usual and I wont loose any sleep over it (uhm - since I burn sticks I guess I will:becky:). I would like to know the answer to CarolinaQue's question. For Pellet's I would have thought that it stirred about as much emotion as gas. How did that go down and what was the reaction? Just curious.

dmprantz
01-26-2012, 01:17 PM
3) Somebody is going to be upset, no matter what happens.


I'm not going to be upset if propane is not allowed, but if the reason is due to "purity of the sport" or "inherrent safety issues" (while still allowing other LP uses), I'll think it's BS. I think both of those ships sailed long ago. I could see it being a logistical issue of checking pits maybe. In the end though, I think putting it to a vote of the membership is stupid. It's like asking Republicans if registered Democrats should be allowed to vote in their primaries, or asking the NFLPA to vote on if college players should be allowed to join. Not gonna happen. I don't even think 100% Judges should have a say here, but I'm sure that'll get blood boiling....

dmp

TooSaucedToPork
01-26-2012, 01:23 PM
If I had a vote I would vote "no" but if they change the rule I'll just go about business as usual and I wont loose any sleep over it (uhm - since I burn sticks I guess I will:becky:). I would like to know the answer to CarolinaQue's question. For Pellet's I would have thought that it stirred about as much emotion as gas. How did that go down and what was the reaction? Just curious.

If I remember correctly...

They deemed pellets were made of wood, and by the USDA Definition of BBQ that KCBS adopted, any wood or charcoal can be used to fire a cooker. Pellet cookers burn on their own, and don't use an electric burner to fire the pellets, so by definition they were deemed legal...

Bourbon Barrel BBQ
01-26-2012, 01:34 PM
Interesting, and for the most part civil, debate. There are a few primary issues that continue to stand out, and if you feel I've missed something important please let me know:becky:

1) Safety is a concern for some/many. Got it.
2) Some define BBQ as a product, and others believe that it's a process.
2a) For those defining it as a process, equipment becomes a very important part of their reasoning in some cases.
3) Somebody is going to be upset, no matter what happens.

Does that oversimplify the issue?

I would say #3 isn't really true. If they don't allow gas the purist will be happy and everyone else will just shrug and go on about their business. I've not really seen anyone in this thread say they would switch even if it were legal.

bover
01-26-2012, 01:37 PM
I would say #3 isn't really true. If they don't allow gas the purist will be happy and everyone else will just shrug and go on about their business. I've not really seen anyone in this thread say they would switch even if it were legal.

Wouldn't switch to using it as a primary heat source, but I bet a lot of folks would be using brulee torches to crisp up that farkin' chicken skin if it were to be allowed.

NRA4Life
01-26-2012, 01:47 PM
Would it also be legal to braise the meat in a pot of bbq sauce WHILE it is being heated by a propane stove?

Bourbon Barrel BBQ
01-26-2012, 01:53 PM
Would it also be legal to braise the meat in a pot of bbq sauce WHILE it is being heated by a propane stove?

I can see both of the above happening good arguments.

dmprantz
01-26-2012, 01:54 PM
Would it also be legal to braise the meat in a pot of bbq sauce WHILE it is being heated by a propane stove?

Without seeing a specific proposed rule change (and I don't know that there is one) it would be impossible to say what would be allowed, but what you are describing is perfectly legal and possible now according to the rules as long as you use a wood fire to do it.

dmp

G$
01-26-2012, 05:19 PM
42










:caked:

tmcmaster
01-26-2012, 05:48 PM
Would it also be legal to braise the meat in a pot of bbq sauce WHILE it is being heated by a propane stove?
Or just pulling your Kenmore gas stove in and bking it in the oven? Which, if gas is allowed, could be legal.

CarolinaQue
01-26-2012, 06:07 PM
Or just pulling your Kenmore gas stove in and bking it in the oven? Which, if gas is allowed, could be legal.


I think that would depend on whether the rule was a generic meaning of the definition of gas, or if it read to be gas "assisted" pits.

boogiesnap
01-26-2012, 06:12 PM
42










:caked:

skadoo.

boogiesnap
01-26-2012, 06:15 PM
how about another perspective.

BBQ MUST be cooked outside. this is the determinor.

you CAN have propane inside, but, you CANNOT have a fire pit.

not sure i'm making sense...but do y'all get the idea?

boogiesnap
01-26-2012, 06:20 PM
basically what i;m saying is the last tie to "traditional" BBQ and KCBS competition BBQ may wind up being as simple as "food cooked outdoors".

tmcmaster
01-26-2012, 06:46 PM
basically what i;m saying is the last tie to "traditional" BBQ and KCBS competition BBQ may wind up being as simple as "food cooked outdoors".

And that would be a shame... Because you can infact move a gas oven outside. And, in my mind, pellet poopers and all the gadgetry are nothing more than ovens...:decision:

boogiesnap
01-26-2012, 06:55 PM
And that would be a shame... Because you can infact move a gas oven outside. And, in my mind, pellet poopers and all the gadgetry are nothing more than ovens...:decision:

agreed, but that doesn't mean it would have to be YOUR definition of BBQ.

just THEIR competition parameters.

really, when it comes down to it, that IS what traditional BBQ IS at its base, cooking outside. no more no less.

the fact that wood was used for fuel was a restriction of the times.

with that said...wood or coal cooked food artistry needs to be preserved as well.

Smokedelic
01-26-2012, 07:23 PM
Good grief....this thread makes me glad the contest season is just around the corner.:blah:

I go to a contest to compete, period...pitting my idea of what good bbq is against everyone else's idea of what good bbq is. I don't care what you cook or how you cook it, as long as it's within the rules. May the best cook win.

Outside of perhaps the safety issues, I have zero problem with propane or electric being used.

If any of you can point out the "fire tending" scores or the "sanctity of bbq" scores on my scoresheets, I'd be happy to give them some attention. Until then, I'll focus on only 3 things....appearance of my food, how it tastes, and how tender it is. The rest of this discussion is bbq off-season, internet forum, drama-filled bullchit.

IMO, If you don't show up at a bbq contest and use every tool, trick, and technique allowed within the rules to cook and present the best food you can possibly make, then you really aren't there to compete, you're just there to cook some meat....and that's fine by me.

Bourbon Barrel BBQ
01-26-2012, 08:03 PM
Good grief....this thread makes me glad the contest season is just around the corner.:blah:

I go to a contest to compete, period...pitting my idea of what good bbq is against everyone else's idea of what good bbq is. I don't care what you cook or how you cook it, as long as it's within the rules. May the best cook win.

Outside of perhaps the safety issues, I have zero problem with propane or electric being used.

If any of you can point out the "fire tending" scores or the "sanctity of bbq" scores on my scoresheets, I'd be happy to give them some attention. Until then, I'll focus on only 3 things....appearance of my food, how it tastes, and how tender it is. The rest of this discussion is bbq off-season, internet forum, drama-filled bullchit.

IMO, If you don't show up at a bbq contest and use every tool, trick, and technique allowed within the rules to cook and present the best food you can possibly make, then you really aren't there to compete, you're just there to cook some meat....and that's fine by me.

I like your style.

Bourbon Barrel BBQ
01-26-2012, 08:04 PM
And, in my mind, pellet poopers and all the gadgetry are nothing more than ovens...:decision:

I don't think anyone is going to argue that point with you.

The_Kapn
01-27-2012, 07:25 AM
I respect all types of pits and their owners/cooks.
Brethrenly (is that a word?) thing to do.

But, that is just me.

TIM

BigBellyBBQ
01-27-2012, 08:11 AM
bottom line is, lets have some fun... BBQ the best we can...have a beer...then BBQ some more and enjoy what you have just cooked and hope the judges are on the same page with you and enjoy the food you busted your arss over and you receive some calls!! Let us all come together and do some cooking! Like we know how to do..:crazy:

kihrer
01-27-2012, 09:08 AM
I guess I am not willing to let KCBS define what BBQ is to me any more than I am willing to let NASCAR define a stock car. There are a lot more people carrying on the tradition of BBQ than those who cook at KCBS events. No matter what KCBS eventually morphs in to, BBQ is defined in the hearts and souls of those who cook it. There are thousands of backyard BBQ cooks who don't even know that KCBS exists. I was one of those people not that long ago. I have been cooking low and slow on pits and bullets for many years and BBQ is more than just a meal to me it is something that runs much deeper - most of you know what I am talking about. I am passing it on to my children and will also pass it on to my grandchildren some day.

Heck, even those of us who have a passion for BBQ can't even define it. It certainly has evolved and I can fully understand how that can bring up deep emotions in people. To me, KCBS is a sanctioning body for contests that I want to compete in. While their mission statement seems to contain statements that they can't live up to, that probably fits the bill for 90% of all companies and organizations in the world today. For me, I like their choices of meat (although I never BBQ-ed chicken prior to KCBS and would much prefer sausage), their large number of contests to choose from, and the idea of pitting my skills against others who love to cook BBQ.

As long as I am enjoying the competition (with safety in mind as a lack there of would sure reduce the enjoyment) and I am judged on the same criteria as those who I am competing against, C'est la vie, I don't care how my neighbor chooses to define BBQ. Bring on your gas. I just want to whoop your azz (all in a competitive spirit of course) and have a good time with you while I do it:becky:

The day I stop competing I will probably still have the same definition of BBQ in my mind and soul as I do today (I am stubborn like that) and will have hopefully passed it down a generation or two. I certainly don't want them looking to KCBS for that definition. Traditions shouldn't be formed by organization or governments in my opinion. In fact, I believe it to be a contradiction.

CarolinaQue
01-27-2012, 10:11 AM
I guess I am not willing to let KCBS define what BBQ is to me any more than I am willing to let NASCAR define a stock car. There are a lot more people carrying on the tradition of BBQ than those who cook at KCBS events. No matter what KCBS eventually morphs in to, BBQ is defined in the hearts and souls of those who cook it. There are thousands of backyard BBQ cooks who don't even know that KCBS exists. I was one of those people not that long ago. I have been cooking low and slow on pits and bullets for many years and BBQ is more than just a meal to me it is something that runs much deeper - most of you know what I am talking about. I am passing it on to my children and will also pass it on to my grandchildren some day.

Heck, even those of us who have a passion for BBQ can't even define it. It certainly has evolved and I can fully understand how that can bring up deep emotions in people. To me, KCBS is a sanctioning body for contests that I want to compete in. While their mission statement seems to contain statements that they can't live up to, that probably fits the bill for 90% of all companies and organizations in the world today. For me, I like their choices of meat (although I never BBQ-ed chicken prior to KCBS and would much prefer sausage), their large number of contests to choose from, and the idea of pitting my skills against others who love to cook BBQ.

As long as I am enjoying the competition (with safety in mind as a lack there of would sure reduce the enjoyment) and I am judged on the same criteria as those who I am competing against, C'est la vie, I don't care how my neighbor chooses to define BBQ. Bring on your gas. I just want to whoop your azz (all in a competitive spirit of course) and have a good time with you while I do it:becky:

The day I stop competing I will probably still have the same definition of BBQ in my mind and soul as I do today (I am stubborn like that) and will have hopefully passed it down a generation or two. I certainly don't want them looking to KCBS for that definition. Traditions shouldn't be formed by organization or governments in my opinion. In fact, I believe it to be a contradiction.

Very well said!!!:clap2:

Flavor Gangster
01-28-2012, 09:28 AM
Once again, Nascar has several classes of competition.
Different Vehicles for different races!

I would suggest people in charge start looking at some break off with this MONSTER KCBS. Look into groups. KCBS being the mothership and having more classifications for each event.

It is almost that time.
Even a simple split:
Pitmaster Class: Wood Only and Charcoal only. No Electronic Devices whatsoever.

Masters Open Class: Anything Goes "Which sounds like current state of affairs".

Lots of difficulty I am sure, but just saying. Something should be considered. Each event owner or host has the right to choose the style of comp.

That way if you register for a Master Open Event you know you are up against Fast eddys, Gurus, Propane or whatever the heck you cook on. Besides a stove.

When I say propane I am referring to the 10,000 dollar Southern Prides and Ole Hickorys or similar. Maybe not a Weber Genesis, but so what if you get whipped by a Team with a Weber gas grill. He obviously mastered that device and cooked some damn good food. Most likely I see people using that for Chicken!

Who knows?

smokeyw
01-28-2012, 09:38 AM
I don't think you can equate Nascar and KCBS at all. It is just not apples and apples. Yes, Nascar does have rules and restrictions. But lt's face it, technology abounds in Nascar, probably more than any sport. The people that are arguing against propane, pellet poopers, and electronic air flow controllers don't want any technology in the form of their smokers. They do however seem to be OK with some other forms of technology such as injections, foil, etc.

Flavor Gangster
01-28-2012, 10:20 AM
I don't think you can equate Nascar and KCBS at all. It is just not apples and apples. Yes, Nascar does have rules and restrictions. But lt's face it, technology abounds in Nascar, probably more than any sport. The people that are arguing against propane, pellet poopers, and electronic air flow controllers don't want any technology in the form of their smokers. They do however seem to be OK with some other forms of technology such as injections, foil, etc.


No Damn close to apples or the same tree. I was just using it as an example towards a point. Seperation is normal!

Ok then, Cooking Competitions will be my next example: This years Research Chefs Conevention they are pairing Research Chefs with ACF Chefs for a competition. Two different worlds. Both cooking food.
Different tools, techniques etc. Normally they compete in their own comps under their own rules. This is a fun experiment. Obviously you saw the poor showing of Chefs on Bravos Top Chef.
Would you say all Cooking Comps are the same? No they are not. You don't have Pastry Chefs showing up with their Chocolate tools for a Cold Foods Competition, hosted by ACF. It is still cooking. Yes different styles. These are just different examples. :clap2:

I can't wait for some corporate team to put a Alkar Smokehouse on a trailer and show up. Computer Staged Cooking with water temperature adjustments, Wood Smoke and Cycle Changes. Yes, Barbecue for the next generation. :crazy:

I am sure we are all about the future. You just can't keep argueing something when people are obviously cherry picking their own rules and opinions to what BBQ is or is not.

I am pretty sure people cooked BBQ Type Foods on LP gas a long time before BBQ competitions and Wood Pellets or Gurus came along. Like the 60's.
I think the 90's is when the pellet was introduced. So now what shoud we do?:doh:

SHBBQ
01-29-2012, 02:57 AM
Amen Mike, some people just don't get it

SHBBQ
01-29-2012, 03:08 AM
I mention the part of KCB$' mission stement to " preserve and promote barbeque as a culinary technique, sport and art form..." as justification for my feeling that the sanctity of BBQ be maintained. Because it is in their mission statement.

you cannot ignore the actual rules and base your arguement solely on a mission statement. a mission statement is meant to be vague to encompass all that KCBS stands for. you are taking the mission statement, and using your definition of what "the sanctity" and "the purity" is and trying to hold KCBS to your standard. that just doesn't make sense to me. as with television, if you do not like what is on, then don't watch it, change the channel. i guarantee there are organizations that can accomodate the sanctity that you desire, it just isn't KCBS, and it probably never will be. with that being said, if you start a TMCMASTER Barbecue Society, please let me know, i would love to compete in your organization when i am not cooking KCBS. I would love to win there too.