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arrowhead
01-14-2012, 04:34 PM
test your knowledge.

http://kcbs.us/judges-education.php

Gadragonfly
01-14-2012, 08:25 PM
test your knowledge.

http://kcbs.us/judges-education.php

Passed - score 100% 50/50 correct. I only found one question that I thought was questionable. Otherwise a very well written test with clear cut questions that every cbj should know by their 10th contest.

Julie

Slamdunkpro
01-14-2012, 09:00 PM
48/50 - the two questions I missed don't conform to what I've seen happen in the field.

Rookie'48
01-14-2012, 09:06 PM
Yep, 100% :thumb:. And most of those questions ARE on the Master's test, along with a couple of other tricky ones.

What I'd also like to see is some continuing education that keeps going after you receive your Master CBJ.

Matt_A
01-14-2012, 11:14 PM
Passed - score 100% 50/50 correct. Good test. :-D

ModelMaker
01-15-2012, 09:10 AM
OK got em all, just took my masters test.
One of my biggest gripes about the master test is all the cutsy questions that can easily be right or wrong.
Couple of examples:
All KCBS contests start at noon. I have been at contests that will have a extra (anything but, etc) catagory at 11:30

TRUE or FALSE: Decimals are used in scoring KCBS sanctioned events.
True
False

Correct!
Ref: Rules and Regulations, Judging Procedures, #4
The answer here is yes, decimals are most definatley used in scoring, but if you add
"decimals used by judges" then the answer is no.
It is of the utmost importance that any continuing education courses be simple and well thought out questions that will teach rules and practices. No more of those cute double could be answers.
Ed

Rookie'48
01-15-2012, 12:58 PM
Or my favorite question on the Master's test: "You're the Table Captain and . . . " :confused: :mad: :shock:

Sledneck
01-15-2012, 01:28 PM
Maybe the test is to easy?

bbq.tom
01-15-2012, 02:37 PM
If this exam is similar to the Master CBJ exam, then I am truly disappointed!!! I always felt that the Master's exam would be much more difficult and truly test the knowledge of CBJs! I still have a few contests to judge before taking the Master exam, but this test is too easy IMHO.

ModelMaker
01-15-2012, 03:41 PM
I don't think the Masters test should be hard. It should represent a very good working knowledge of the rules (put in a straight forward question) and practices of continueing problems addressed by rep notifications.
No need for tricky over thinking answers.
Ed

Mister Bob
01-15-2012, 04:50 PM
49/50 Didn't know I had to eat around a hair I found in the box. Thought it would make sense to tell the table captain. I must have missed that part of the class.

ModelMaker
01-15-2012, 05:07 PM
49/50 Didn't know I had to eat around a hair I found in the box. Thought it would make sense to tell the table captain. I must have missed that part of the class.


That's the only question I missed on the Masters test. This is what I mean by straight forward answers to a question.
Of course the first thing you do is notify the table captain.....
Ed

Fat Freddy
01-15-2012, 05:15 PM
Well I will admit I didnt do as good as others.I didnt do horrible in my opinion 45/50 and didnt read one question like I should have and OVER analyzed another one. But I legitimately missed them as well as 3 others.

I dont want to ruin it for others but I have 2 questions one I got wrong and one I got right, so I will try to be as vague as i can. On the one I missed I have never heard of the "napkin test" did I just tune that out in class :redface: and the question on the one I got right. How would a JUDGE know if a specific muscle is separated on a pork turn in?? I mean honestly if a JUDGE is going by the bark, there are some cooks with some really good knife skills for more of a cooking area. so how honestly would a JUDGE know if separated or not.

Sorry if I sound foolish but I am curious about those things.

arrowhead
01-15-2012, 06:35 PM
Well I will admit I didnt do as good as others.I didnt do horrible in my opinion 45/50 and didnt read one question like I should have and OVER analyzed another one. But I legitimately missed them as well as 3 others.

I dont want to ruin it for others but I have 2 questions one I got wrong and one I got right, so I will try to be as vague as i can. On the one I missed I have never heard of the "napkin test" did I just tune that out in class :redface: and the question on the one I got right. How would a JUDGE know if a specific muscle is separated on a pork turn in?? I mean honestly if a JUDGE is going by the bark, there are some cooks with some really good knife skills for more of a cooking area. so how honestly would a JUDGE know if separated or not.

Sorry if I sound foolish but I am curious about those things.

i didn't learn about the napkin test in the cbj class, it was during a judges meeting priot to a contest. i also missed the pork muscle question. 46/50.

Rookie'48
01-15-2012, 10:02 PM
Freddy, here's my thinking on the pork muscle:
If you butterfly a butt, laying the meat out kind of flat and leave the money muscle attached by a hair of connective tissue, you can then put rub almost all the way around the MM. And you will also get a smoke ring (which we're NOT supposed to judge) that goes so far around the MM that it's very hard to see that the MM was, in fact, connected to the rest of the butt.
I don't know how a judge would be able to tell if it was seperated or not.

Fat Freddy
01-15-2012, 10:46 PM
Thanks Dave, that was kinda might point. I did get the question right but i guess I didnt see the purpose in having that as a question for a judge because to me there is no way a judge would know one way or the other how it was cooked, and if a portion of it was separated while cooking.

The_Kapn
01-16-2012, 08:46 AM
You can cook a MM seperate, then just slice off a bit down one edge to make it look like it was cooked with the butt.

And NO--I do not do this.

TIM

El Pistolero
01-16-2012, 06:06 PM
49/50 Didn't know I had to eat around a hair I found in the box. Thought it would make sense to tell the table captain. I must have missed that part of the class.

That's the only question I missed on the Masters test. This is what I mean by straight forward answers to a question.
Of course the first thing you do is notify the table captain.....
Ed

Our CBJ instructor devoted a whole slide and considerable discussion to this question. He said you don't really even need to alert the table captain, just remove the hair and go on. The reasoning was that you don't know where that hair came from...could have been the cook, the table captain, or one of the other judges.

boogiesnap
01-16-2012, 06:49 PM
Maybe the test is to easy?

test IS too easy.

i've never judged, got 48/50. missed same question as others.

decimals and :icon_blush:romaine.

this should be the CBJ test at a minimum.

ModelMaker
01-16-2012, 07:24 PM
Our CBJ instructor devoted a whole slide and considerable discussion to this question. He said you don't really even need to alert the table captain, just remove the hair and go on. The reasoning was that you don't know where that hair came from...could have been the cook, the table captain, or one of the other judges.

Slide? You got a slide show? Thats the first I ever heard of having slides..
There are a number of ways to react after noticing a hair. If there were more than six samples you would ask for a different one. If your to squeemish to eat a piece of meat that has a hair embedded in it there are Rep advisorys with several directions on how to proceed.
So I'm of the opinion still that the first thing you do unless you just fling the hair and chow down, is tell the TC.
Ed

tmcmaster
01-17-2012, 08:48 AM
100%!

Lake Dogs
01-17-2012, 12:53 PM
If this exam is similar to the Master CBJ exam, then I am truly disappointed!!! I always felt that the Master's exam would be much more difficult and truly test the knowledge of CBJs! I still have a few contests to judge before taking the Master exam, but this test is too easy IMHO.

49/50 and I read that one question too fast, otherwise would've been 50/50. Other than the few procedural questions, I think even the first-time judge should be able to pass this test. Very VERY EASY.

How about ask questions that are real world, like how to score a chicken entry when they present 3 slices of the breast and 3 drum sticks. Or 4 slices of brisket and 8 burnt end pieces. What if the garnish isn't symetrical.

We find a fair amount of CBJ's that answer these wrong, consistently.


I applaud continuing education, but frankly lets ramp it up a notch, aye?

mobow
01-17-2012, 01:15 PM
I think it is a great start and KCBS gets kudos and should be encouraged to continue to put out additional such test. This was pretty easy but it brings it all to the forefront of a persons thinking, keeps it fresh in the mind and can help bring uniformity to the judging process. Plus, it may have been easy for most but think of the help it can be to that pesky judge number 5 who makes all cooks crazy. keith

tmcmaster
01-17-2012, 01:19 PM
I think it is a great start and KCBS gets kudos and should be encouraged to continue to put out additional such test. This was pretty easy but it brings it all to the forefront of a persons thinking, keeps it fresh in the mind and can help bring uniformity to the judging process. Plus, it may have been easy for most but think of the help it can be to that pesky judge number 5 who makes all cooks crazy. keith
Must be a regional thing... It's ALWAYS Judge 6 that makes us crazy around here...:boxing:

Alexa RnQ
01-17-2012, 01:21 PM
While titled "continuing education", this fills a need that's been present for some time, i.e. filling in the gaps from the original education. Those of us who have been around competition BBQ for a while have its elements all assembled in our heads pretty neatly, but for a first-timer taking a CBJ class it's a lot of material to assimilate, and some aspects will inevitably not make it through the first translation. A quiz like this isn't a substitute for a number of contests, but it sure can't hurt any.

arrowhead
01-17-2012, 03:54 PM
I think it is a great start and KCBS gets kudos and should be encouraged to continue to put out additional such test. This was pretty easy but it brings it all to the forefront of a persons thinking, keeps it fresh in the mind and can help bring uniformity to the judging process. Plus, it may have been easy for most but think of the help it can be to that pesky judge number 5 who makes all cooks crazy. keith

no matter how much online education judges get, it still comes down to appearance, taste, tenderness.

if i judge a rib a 9 and judge 5 judges it a 6, no online continuing education is going to change that. the education should come from the judges and tc at the table while we're waiting for the next turn in.

i don't believe cook teams are interested in knowing if judges know how many contests are required to get the master rating or if kcbs can establish leftover policy.

i have never been judge 5.

mobow
01-17-2012, 04:36 PM
no matter how much online education judges get, it still comes down to appearance, taste, tenderness.

if i judge a rib a 9 and judge 5 judges it a 6, no online continuing education is going to change that. the education should come from the judges and tc at the table while we're waiting for the next turn in.

i don't believe cook teams are interested in knowing if judges know how many contests are required to get the master rating or if kcbs can establish leftover policy.

i have never been judge 5.

its a start

arrowhead
01-17-2012, 05:12 PM
its a start

i agree, but it still comes down to appearance, taste, tenderness.



i think judges should be required to participate more than 1 time with a cook team before getting their mcbj. start to finish-cook meeting, meat check in, cooking, until the awards ceremony.

for lake dog, i'd say turning in 3 breasts and 3 legs gets a dq as a marked box. i've never seen it happen.

mobow
01-17-2012, 05:39 PM
Lake dogs question Is a good one. As long as there are 6 pieces total it Is a legal box. As for cooking with more than one team. I would do it again. I would love to cook with Tippycanoe,Quau, munchin hogs at the Hilton, just to mention a few. Lol. Keith

arrowhead
01-17-2012, 06:14 PM
Lake dogs question Is a good one. As long as there are 6 pieces total it Is a legal box. As for cooking with more than one team. I would do it again. I would love to cook with Tippycanoe,Quau, munchin hogs at the Hilton, just to mention a few. Lol. Keith

well, i've been educated. thanks.

that should be a test question.

Lake Dogs
01-17-2012, 06:34 PM
well, i've been educated. thanks.

that should be a test question.

Same with the brisket & burnt ends, or pulled & sliced pork. As long as there are 6 pieces, it doesnt matter what cut. Doesn't have to be 6 of the "same thing"; just 6 pieces of the qualifying meat.

I'd say 40% or more of judges dont get this. Or, they score down because they wanted the slice and only got a pulled chunk, etc. Can't do it. Judge what you have, regardless of what "else" was presented. Probably 60% of judges make this mistake.

I'd like to see the test a little more focused on judging; judging MEAT. Also, you wouldn't believe the amount of comments about garnish, not being even, too much, too little, etc. We're "supposed" to be ignoring the garnish. Seriously, probably 30% or more of judges fall into this trap.

Mind you, I think KCBS's efforts here are needed and this is certainly a good start. However, I think they'd be better served by a few more judging meats questions and a few less procedural questions.

mobow
01-17-2012, 06:42 PM
Same with the brisket & burnt ends, or pulled & sliced pork. As long as there are 6 pieces, it doesnt matter what cut. Doesn't have to be 6 of the "same thing"; just 6 pieces of the qualifying meat.

I'd say 40% or more of judges dont get this. Or, they score down because they wanted the slice and only got a pulled chunk, etc. Can't do it. Judge what you have, regardless of what "else" was presented. Probably 60% of judges make this mistake.

I'd like to see the test a little more focused on judging; judging MEAT. Also, you wouldn't believe the amount of comments about garnish, not being even, too much, too little, etc. We're "supposed" to be ignoring the garnish. Seriously, probably 30% or more of judges fall into this trap.

Are you getting this Dave? Lake Dogs wants to be on the CBJ committee! :-P keith

arrowhead
01-17-2012, 06:46 PM
Same with the brisket & burnt ends, or pulled & sliced pork. As long as there are 6 pieces, it doesnt matter what cut. Doesn't have to be 6 of the "same thing"; just 6 pieces of the qualifying meat.

I'd say 40% or more of judges dont get this. Or, they score down because they wanted the slice and only got a pulled chunk, etc. Can't do it. Judge what you have, regardless of what "else" was presented. Probably 60% of judges make this mistake.

I'd like to see the test a little more focused on judging; judging MEAT. Also, you wouldn't believe the amount of comments about garnish, not being even, too much, too little, etc. We're "supposed" to be ignoring the garnish. Seriously, probably 30% or more of judges fall into this trap.


i get it now. lol i agree about the test/education for judges being more about judging the meat than amount of contests etc.

garnish, that doesn't have any affect on my appearance score (as long as it's legal), but i have witnessed judges where it did.

Gadragonfly
01-18-2012, 01:49 PM
I'd like to see the test a little more focused on judging; judging MEAT. Also, you wouldn't believe the amount of comments about garnish, not being even, too much, too little, etc. We're "supposed" to be ignoring the garnish. Seriously, probably 30% or more of judges fall into this trap.

Mind you, I think KCBS's efforts here are needed and this is certainly a good start. However, I think they'd be better served by a few more judging meats questions and a few less procedural questions.

How about having an additional link (maybe at the end of the test) that allows one to make suggestions for questions and maybe a new continuing eduction test posted every quarter with questions gleaned from those suggested?

Julie

Jeff_in_KC
01-18-2012, 02:53 PM
I got 47/50. Still an A! :thumb: I don't necessarily agree it's TOO easy. I agree with Ed - no point in making people over think it. My problem is that several of these questions have no place in a CBJ test... for instance legal fuel sources. That doesn't even come into play for judges. I'd also like to see more scenarios played out with multiple choice solutions.

JD McGee
01-18-2012, 03:37 PM
Our CBJ instructor devoted a whole slide and considerable discussion to this question. He said you don't really even need to alert the table captain, just remove the hair and go on. The reasoning was that you don't know where that hair came from...could have been the cook, the table captain, or one of the other judges.

Not a judge here but I find this interesting...up here in PNWBA land a hair is considered a foreign object and is cause for a DQ...so...is this not the case for KCBS? :cool:

bover
01-18-2012, 04:00 PM
Not a judge here but I find this interesting...up here in PNWBA land a hair is considered a foreign object and is cause for a DQ...so...is this not the case for KCBS? :cool:

It doesn't say anything in the rules or the judge's manual that I can recall, but it is a Rep Advisory:

4.2 Hair or Brush Bristle
Question: Can a hair or brush bristle be reason for disqualification?
Opinion: NO. You do not know where the hair came from. It could have come from the table captain or another judge. You do not DQ an entry with a hair or bristle from a brush. February 17, 2006

4.3 Hair on Entry
Question: What should I do if a hair is on an entry and no CBJ will sample it?
Opinion: As we know, a hair is not a DQ as we do not know if the hair came from the cook, table captain, a judge at the table, or such. When a hair is found, the table captain should note how many samples remain and, if the effected piece is needed, ask if there is a judge that is willing to remove it, eat around it and score it fairly. Should no one volunteer, the table captain is to divide a sample so all judges can score fairly. If the sample cannot be divided, the table captain, or a willing alternate judge, is to score the entry. September 10, 2008

bover
01-18-2012, 04:11 PM
I got 47/50. Still an A! :thumb: I don't necessarily agree it's TOO easy. I agree with Ed - no point in making people over think it. My problem is that several of these questions have no place in a CBJ test... for instance legal fuel sources. That doesn't even come into play for judges. I'd also like to see more scenarios played out with multiple choice solutions.

I completely agree. What they've got posted right now is a good start, but the questions definitely need to be more judge-centric. Questions like the organizer being able to change rules, legal heat sources for cooking, meat inspection process, etc. have nothing to do with the judging itself and therefore don't really have a place in the CBJ education.

The bottom line here is that this is something a lot of us have been asking about for quite a long time. I'm really happy to see the ball get rolling. Once this thing is tweaked and polished a bit, I'd really like to see a requirement for all judges to take and pass this test on an annual or biennial basis in order to retain CBJ status.

Stoke&Smoke
01-19-2012, 03:52 PM
I got 100% 50/50, but agree that the decimal point score was kind of bogus, but that's looking at it from a cooks standpoint, not a judges. Many judges leave prior to awards, and may never have seen a team score sheet, so I think the KCBS point of view is for folks not to give a 7.5 on a category or the like.

Also, to many redundant questions. 2 about white and dark meat chicken comes to mind.

At least they made an effort, but I think they need better questions

Gadragonfly
01-23-2012, 12:37 PM
I got 100% 50/50, but agree that the decimal point score was kind of bogus, but that's looking at it from a cooks standpoint, not a judges. Many judges leave prior to awards, and may never have seen a team score sheet, so I think the KCBS point of view is for folks not to give a 7.5 on a category or the like.



I disagree. I think most judges understand that the final scoring system with KCBS includes decimal points and that those points can determine final placement. I think the question is aimed more toward the fact that a lot of judges participate in multiple sanctioning bodies and when judging for some of those sanctioning bodies the judge uses decimal points. The trick is to answer the question without overthinking it. - Julie