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kihrer
01-12-2012, 12:34 PM
The thread on sliced pork got me to thinking about several judges comments on the show The Next Iron Chef. Often, the chefs would put something beyond the requirements on their plates to be judged. More than once I heard a judge tell them that they were taking a big risk because now they were being judged on both items and if one of them wasn't up to par it could send them home.

With that preface, do you think it is advantageous to place sliced and pulled in to the turn in box or even burnt ends and slices in the box? If your burnt ends were really good but your slices only okay, would you still turn in the slices? I know that box build out is part of the equation but if you get dinged on tenderness and taste because you turned in a bad brisket slice along with your good burnt ends, wouldn't that hurt you more than just turning in a box with burnt ends that maybe didn't look as good?

Leatherheadiowa
01-12-2012, 12:42 PM
I have always thought the same thing when comparing it to the reality style cooking elimination shows. We turn in money muscle, pulled, and bigger slices. I wish I could convince my teammate and myself to only turn in the very best. The downfall I can think of is trying to have a full box of money muscle. That may be tough.

kihrer
01-12-2012, 12:48 PM
I have always thought the same thing when comparing it to the reality style cooking elimination shows. We turn in money muscle, pulled, and bigger slices. I wish I could convince my teammate and myself to only turn in the very best. The downfall I can think of is trying to have a full box of money muscle. That may be tough.

I am hoping some judges will comment, too. If they got a box that had awesome pulled and so so MM how would they judge it? I know the BBQ Comps aren't the same as reality cooking shows but I am curious about this type of situation.

mobow
01-12-2012, 01:01 PM
Turn in your best. If one aspect is not up to par do not turn it in if you do not have to. The exception to this in my opinion is brisket. While it may be that you should not be judged down for not turning in sliced brisket I think you would have to hit the right table to get away with it. Right or wrong I think you run a risk of being docked for not having sliced. Many judges would start speculating as to why you did not put sliced in. They would speculate that you over cooked the flat or under cooked it. I think some of this comes from the training judges get. A great deal of emphasis is placed on the pull test which is usually a test of the sliced brisket more so than ends. Also, at my judging class the instructor actually went into detail of how cooks try to hide over or under cooked slices by the thickness of the cut. This sets the mind set for a judge that if he did not turn it in it must have really been a mess. The reality is (in my opinion) that it is probably true. If slices are not turned in something probably did go wrong. Should a cook be judged down for a outstanding burnt end for it? Let that debate begin. keith
ps I think not but I'm not sure it plays out that way.

bover
01-12-2012, 01:05 PM
While there's no official direction on how KCBS judges are supposed to score multiple entries like this I personally score them separately in my head then average those numbers out for the composite score. I'm willing to bet most other judges do the same thing.

For me, I also don't score up or down for the number of entry types in any box. I judge what is presented. Period.

bbq.tom
01-12-2012, 01:30 PM
From another judge - I like to see a full box and especially if there are multiple types in the box (pulled/sliced/chopped pork; sliced/BEs brisket; etc.). That being said - I agree with Josh that I judge the each item in the box and then average the scores.

Bourbon Barrel BBQ
01-12-2012, 02:30 PM
I'd turn in a box of nothing but burnt ends if I didn't think I would get marked down. Our brisket slices are normally pretty good but the burn ends are on another level when you compare the two.

didisea
01-12-2012, 02:38 PM
I guess why I think that it's important to have slices is that I was lurking at a KCBS contest near Seattle last Sept, and I was watching one of the teams do their pork box turn in. He sliced his mm, and that's all the meat he put in the box. I was rather stunned that he didn't include any pulled or chunks. It was just slices. He won 1st place with just the slices. I'm not sure he went with the "best he had" theory, or exactly why he did that. It does make one think about the theory that you should go with putting in the box only the best of what style of meat that you have though.

roksmith
01-12-2012, 02:40 PM
I'd like to try that some time... would be a lot easier to make a couple dozen really good burnt ends than really good sliced.
If I only had the guts...:oops:

INmitch
01-12-2012, 03:53 PM
I always thought my burnt ends were good. But I wasn't getting many calls. So I quit putting them in and walla.

The Virginian
01-12-2012, 06:23 PM
My experience has been that scores go up when you hand in more than one cut of meat in the box, but only if they are both really great. In other words, I think you get bonus points for doing a meat two different ways really well. We hand in chicken, pork, and brisket using that theory, and if I could figure out a way to do it with ribs, I would do that too!

Brett

arrowhead
01-12-2012, 08:05 PM
i agree with the other judges. if there are several types in the box, i'll judge each individually and average the scores.

that is how i was taught at the class i attended several years ago.

NS Mike D
01-13-2012, 12:08 PM
interesting view from the judges,

mathematically you can only go down from your highest possible score by turning in more that one cut. Assuming you know what is you best turn in.

Rookie'48
01-13-2012, 01:03 PM
interesting view from the judges,

mathematically you can only go down from your highest possible score by turning in more that one cut. Assuming you know what is you best turn in.

Theoretically that's correct. In practice you have to figure out which was your best product and how to build a good looking box with just that one product in there, and sometimes that's a lot harder than it sounds.
Also, you have to watch out for the judge who says (and I've heard this asshat :mad2:) "Well, they didn't even give us any burnt ends!"

I think that Keith, Josh & Tom have pretty much got it figured out. Then again, they're on top of the judging game :thumb:.

Bourbon Barrel BBQ
01-13-2012, 01:25 PM
I always thought my burnt ends were good. But I wasn't getting many calls. So I quit putting them in and walla.

There were a couple contest last year where we should have left our burnt ends out. I got into the habit of always turning them in. A few times I turned in some that were not very good and it cost us a call or two.

Craig Pippin
01-16-2012, 02:49 PM
At the recent contest in Vista, CA on day 2, the winner turned in 9 burnt ends only and scored very well, won by 5 pts.

Coz
01-16-2012, 06:36 PM
I always thought my burnt ends were good. But I wasn't getting many calls. So I quit putting them in and walla.

I always make the burnt ends .They dont always go in the box.Sometimes ya just have to have burnt end sammies for lunch the next week. In my mind and I dont know if thats to reliable but I think when I have the burnt end in we score higher. But as others have said if they are not as good as the slices they dont go in.