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View Full Version : Seriously? How did I miss this?


Jeff_in_KC
01-04-2012, 10:47 AM
Just received an email from KCBS stating I needed to get my insurance certificate in (which we were working on this week anyway) and then that
Prize letter guarantees are no longer required by KCBS.

How did I miss this??? Is this their answer to the St Louis debacle? I don't feel comfortable with this at all. Was anyone else aware of this change and if so, when was it decided? I've been back through the last three Board meeting minutes and haven't found anything. :confused:

dmprantz
01-04-2012, 11:10 AM
Is this related to the fact that KCBS will no longer publish prize purse on their website? I guessed that was to absolve themself from any liabillity from promising money.

dmp

Jorge
01-04-2012, 11:35 AM
VOTE for JEFF STITH, KCBS BoD!!!!:-P

If it was discussed by the board, I missed it and the mp3 is only available for a month and the written minutes aren't terribly informative at times..... Pick up the phone.

ThomEmery
01-04-2012, 11:42 AM
Call and get details please

drbbq
01-04-2012, 11:49 AM
Important stuff like this needs to be kept secret.

carlyle
01-04-2012, 11:55 AM
Please let us know what you find out - everyone should be concerned with this issue.

Slamdunkpro
01-04-2012, 12:04 PM
St.Louis demonstrated that these letters have no enforcement value. If they have no value, why require them?

Scottie
01-04-2012, 12:10 PM
I am sure it was discussed in Executive Session under the guise we shouldnt know... :becky::doh:

Jeff_in_KC
01-04-2012, 12:14 PM
Called but she's at lunch. Left a message to call me back.

Jeff_in_KC
01-04-2012, 01:27 PM
OK here's the scoop from the KCBS office - it WAS because of the St. Louis debacle. With all of the contests out there offering many thousands of dollars in prize money, KCBS didn't want to make itself liable for guaranteeing the funds. Soooo... during last month's board meeting it was voted on to not require letters of prize money guarantees any longer. So what's to keep a rogue organizer from saying "Come to our contest! We are offering a $100,000 prize payout!" Then when we as cooks arrive, we hear at the awards "Sorry, we didn't get as many sponsors as we thought so it's only going to be a $5,000 payout." There HAS to be a better way to deal with this issue rather than washing our hands of it! What will this do to the integrity of sanctioning and the contests?

ADDITIONALLY during last month's meeting, it was decided that KCBS would no longer track state championships and leave that to the Jack and the Royal. Bad idea!!! Apparently one director (whose identity was not revealed to me but it was someone not going off this year) either insisted it be this way or it was a pet issue for some unknown reason. If we knew who it was, we might know why.

Here's an even bigger problem in my mind - did any of you see these votes in the minutes from the meeting? Nope, I neither did I. Why were these votes/decisions hidden from membership? Lots of questions to be answered I think.

boogiesnap
01-04-2012, 01:37 PM
there must be verbiage that absolves the sanctioning body yet still holds the contest accountable.

it seems they have stripped away their own usefulness.

i agree jeff...a bad road on all accounts for sure.

DawgPhan
01-04-2012, 01:46 PM
they just stopped doing one of the things that makes them viable. just when you thought they couldnt run this thing into the ground any harder or faster they go and do this. They might as well said we are no longer sanctioning contests.

dmprantz
01-04-2012, 01:50 PM
I listened to the entirety of the last two board meetings (November Special and December) and it was mentioned in one of them that KCBS was going to stop tracking state qualifier status and leave that up to the other contests. In the same conversation it was mentioned that the KCBS website was going to stop posting prize purses. I already stated my guess as to why, and this is consistent with that, so it was at least mentioned.

Because this involved discussions of legal liabillity and perceived contractual obligations, I could understand some of this discussion occuring in closed session, but the vote should have occured in open session, and it appears to be a possibillity that it did not occur there or at all.

That being said, I am displeased with all decisions. While I understand the board's desire to absolve itself of legal liabillity, the information provided by both of those fields was useful, at least for some teams. The decision of which competitions to attend is based, at least in part, on state championships (is an invite possible) and prize purse (Bigger is better). Not having this information means that I will now need to spend more time reading individual competition websites looking for information that might not be as readily available as it once was, and eMailing organizers. While it's not the end of the world for me, I think it's the wrong direction.

I agree that not having a way to enforce the prize letter guarentee is an issue, so why have it, but I wonder why a better system couldn't be implemented. Why not an escrow account instead of a letter? Why not some guarentee based on enrants? I'm sure there are reason why each of those may not work, but I'd like to move forward, not backward. Those are my thoughts...oh well....

dmp

moocow
01-04-2012, 01:53 PM
I understand not needing the letter as it was worthless anyway but I do agree there needs to be some way to protect us. Maybe the board could buy dead beat organizer insurance with the money they are using to send people overseas to teach them about BBQ!:-P The fact that this and the other items were not in the minuets, podcasts or even if it was discussed in closed session is just not right. Why would KCBS not track State Championships? I don't see the benefit unless they are trying to save time and money but if thats the case lets just quit keeping track of everything and just keep sending them $35 a year for the Bullsheet that apparently doesn't have the correct minuets/only what they want you to hear in it anyway! I sure hope some of you guys get elected!

dmprantz
01-04-2012, 01:53 PM
Side, potential hijack question: You mentioned in the OP that you needed to get insurance, and I read in the KCBS' sanctioning packet recently that it is the organizer's responsibillity to get insurance indemnifying the KCBS. Can some one explain to me what exactly this insurance is for and why it is the organizer's responsibillity to acquire it? I would think that the KCBS would want to have an umbrella policy covering all competitions and that the cost of this policy would be offset by the various sanctioning fees. What am I missing?

dmp

dmprantz
01-04-2012, 01:58 PM
The fact that this and the other items were not in the minuets, podcasts or even if it was discussed in closed session is just not right.

It was mentioned in a podcast.

Why would KCBS not track State Championships? I don't see the benefit unless they are trying to save time and money

This is only a guess, but I would posit that it is to save time and money as you suggest, but also to prevent liabillity. If the website lists a comp as being a State Championship, Team A attends, wins GC, and then doesn't get an invite, there might be a tort there. Again, only a guess.

lets just quit keeping track of everything and just keep sending them $35 a year for the Bullsheet

Bullsheet is free. If you stop paying dues, you'll still get it, or at least I did. The more people who receive it, the more they can charge for advertising:)

dmp

Jorge
01-04-2012, 02:03 PM
I understand not needing the letter as it was worthless anyway but I do agree there needs to be some way to protect us. Maybe the board could buy dead beat organizer insurance with the money they are using to send people overseas to teach them about BBQ!:-P The fact that this and the other items were not in the minuets, podcasts or even if it was discussed in closed session is just not right. Why would KCBS not track State Championships? I don't see the benefit unless they are trying to save time and money but if thats the case lets just quit keeping track of everything and just keep sending them $35 a year for the Bullsheet that apparently doesn't have the correct minuets/only what they want you to hear in it anyway! I sure hope some of you guys get elected!

Shane for President!!!

Vern for Collections!!!!

Jeff_in_KC
01-04-2012, 02:18 PM
OK I just got off the phone with Candy. The issue with not tracking state championships was apparently brought up back around March. Arlie is on here, maybe he can clarify. There's no reason this can't be simplified and according to the office, it used to be done via a spreadsheet but now it's in a program and is easier. Why change? Anyway, the St Louis deal was the cause for the no guarantee of prize money letters. I politely disagree with Candy and told her that in 2012, we need to investigate a better way to handle this. What's done is done for 2012 but by later this year, we need to have something in place that gives teams some sort of security from rogue organizers (or deadbeat organizers as Shane called them.) who promise the moon but deliver a port-o-crapper. I asked what's to keep an organizer from promising $100,000 but delivering $5,000. She said "their honor". Yes, it's only happened a couple of times in the six or so years the guarantee letters have been required BUT without this system in place, you can almost bet some organizers will come along and test the process and teams will take it in the shorts when they do.

JD McGee
01-04-2012, 02:23 PM
Well...here's my two cents...you can vote with your attendance...no guarantee of purse...don't cook the event! KCBS or any other sanctioning body will get the hint real quick! No ticky...no laundry! Better yet...no guarantee...no sanctioning...then the promoters will get the hint...I'm not seeing any gray area here...

bigabyte
01-04-2012, 02:23 PM
Woo-Hoo!:whoo: This will surely bring in more of those million dollar purses!

JD McGee
01-04-2012, 02:26 PM
Woo-Hoo!:whoo: This will surely bring in more of those million dollar purses!

More???

SirPorkaLot
01-04-2012, 02:37 PM
The KCBS is making itself more & more irrelevant every day.

Time for one of the other sanctioning bodies to step up where KCBS left off. At this rate, there won't be a KCBS sanctioning body within 5 years.

moocow
01-04-2012, 02:55 PM
Shane for President!!!

Vern for Collections!!!!

To late, I messed up and already voted for you!

Jorge
01-04-2012, 04:05 PM
To late, I messed up and already voted for you!

You can make it up to me by doing that discada class, even if I can't attend!

bignburlyman
02-22-2012, 03:58 PM
Has this prize guarantee position by the KCBS board been reversed? I see now on the KCBS events page that the prize money is listed again. I know the Kansas Winter Q was contacted and requested to send a prize guarantee in. Inquiring minds (mine) want to know.

Hot Sauce Hoss
02-22-2012, 06:08 PM
What JD said, no ticky = no wash.

Hot Sauce Hoss

BigDaddyJT
02-23-2012, 07:55 AM
Well...here's my two cents...you can vote with your attendance...no guarantee of purse...don't cook the event! KCBS or any other sanctioning body will get the hint real quick! No ticky...no laundry! Better yet...no guarantee...no sanctioning...then the promoters will get the hint...I'm not seeing any gray area here...

x2. Agree