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Fat Freddy
12-27-2011, 12:05 PM
If I am not mistaken I remember reading about w-9's a while back, but since it did not affect me nothing registered in my brain.

Anyways I got an entry form for a contest emailed to me this morning and in the application it says that each competitor has to have a w-9 filled out and submitted with the application.

To be honest I dont even know what a W-9 is, I am sure I can look it up though. And I have already started filling out entry applications for other contests and none of them requires a w-9.

This will be our first year as KCBS competitors and not judges so is this something I should be aware of?? Is this typical?? and Why do only some of the contests require but not all??

dmprantz
12-27-2011, 12:17 PM
W-9 basically just tells the organizer what your name, address, and SSN/EIN/TIN is, so that they can send you a 1099 if you get any winnings and report it to the IRS. Sam's Club tried to require one from every team, winner or not, last year, and later removed the requirement. I've seen a few comps ask for winners to fill them out upon receipt of winnings. Apparently your competition is trying the original Sam's Club approach. In my experience, that is atypical.

dmp

Rich Parker
12-27-2011, 12:17 PM
I would fill the form out but would not provide a SSN or EIN until you know you are getting paid. Too many organizations out there think they need everyone's private info.

Ford
12-27-2011, 12:59 PM
by law any prize money over $600 in total from the contest should be recorded and that organization has a legal obligation to file a 1099 with the IRS. To do this they need a W9 that lists your SSN/EIN (not sure what the TIN is).

In reality most organizations that do one contest a year don't bother. It's paperwork and a cost to them. Unless they get audited they are home free and so are you. Here in FL most FBA contests are "charity" events and they don't do it. Some run by organizations do ask for info up front and others (especially municipal groups) will ask for a W9 before handing you a check.

And last thing, you as an individual are supposed to report all winnings on your tax return no matter the amount. By filling out the correct form you can claim deductions for expenses (keep your receipts) but can not claim a loss for your hobby.

dmprantz
12-27-2011, 01:39 PM
not sure what the TIN is

TIN (Taxpayer Identification Number) is an umbrella term which includes both SSN and EIN,among others.

dmp

Bill-Chicago
12-27-2011, 02:10 PM
I would fill the form out but would not provide a SSN or EIN until you know you are getting paid. Too many organizations out there think they need everyone's private info.

This, but if they are insistant, fill out a W-9 with the EIN number being all 8's.

That is the symbol/method used for "Applied For"

Here's the form:
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/fw9.pdf?portlet=103

didisea
12-27-2011, 03:53 PM
Willkat98 - Why would you want to give an organizer a false W-9 form? (Unless you are actually in an applied for status if you were incorporating/LLC)
It is only going to cause the organizer to have to call you at the end of the year to get your actual TIN.

I carry a couple of filled out W-9's (form is available on the www.irs.gov (http://www.irs.gov) website) in my BBQ binder along with my health card and other docs I need to have to compete.

dmprantz
12-27-2011, 04:15 PM
I don't want to speak for Willkat, but a lot of people are hesitant to hand out their SSN whenever asked. The more people have it, the greater the opportunity for fraud and crime committed with it. This is especially true when the person asking for it has absolutely, positively no need for that information at the time he is asking for it.

There have been several conversations about getting an EIN instead of an SSN and using that, trusting contest organizers, and trusting the mail. While those are certainly valid things to consider, they are not substitutes for carefully garding your own information and protecting yourself. If any one wants to carry around pieces of paper with his SSN on them, ready to get stolen, go ahead, but I would not recommend any one do that. It's pretty quick and easy to fill a W-9 out if you win.

dmp

Coz
12-27-2011, 05:03 PM
And last thing, you as an individual are supposed to report all winnings on your tax return no matter the amount. By filling out the correct form you can claim deductions for expenses (keep your receipts) but can not claim a loss for your hobby.[/QUOTE


Ford ,my accountant had us doing this when I was racing but when we started this insanity of Comp BBQ he now says we cant deduct the expenses as a hobby .

Fat Freddy
12-27-2011, 05:57 PM
Willkat98 - Why would you want to give an organizer a false W-9 form? (Unless you are actually in an applied for status if you were incorporating/LLC)
It is only going to cause the organizer to have to call you at the end of the year to get your actual TIN.

I carry a couple of filled out W-9's (form is available on the www.irs.gov (http://www.irs.gov) website) in my BBQ binder along with my health card and other docs I need to have to compete.


Health Card and other documents???? I must be missing something here big time. What is a health card and how would I go about getting one??

As for the contest and its organizer. Last year we had a contest same days set up same rules and everything because KCBS wanted them to have 1 year of contest before becoming sanctioned. The organizer is nice and seems organized and really wants this contest to work and at least one fellow brethren is helping her out with advice. Saying all that I would have zero problem with filling out a tax form but as a former victim of identity theft and have spent tons of money and time and aggravation repairing this I am SUPER leery of putting my ss number anywhere that I am not in control of.

On the other hand i would sure LOVE to have one necessary, would mean I didnt do to bad.

Thanks for all the help everyone, it really is appreciated and informative.

2Fat
12-27-2011, 06:55 PM
And last thing, you as an individual are supposed to report all winnings on your tax return no matter the amount. By filling out the correct form you can claim deductions for expenses (keep your receipts) but can not claim a loss for your hobby.[/QUOTE


Ford ,my accountant had us doing this when I was racing but when we started this insanity of Comp BBQ he now says we cant deduct the expenses as a hobby .

Well either he is mistaken or our CPA is wrong--you can deduct up to the extent of reported income or something like that---did that a couple years and it helped---alot

Uncle T
12-27-2011, 08:16 PM
Willkat98 - Why would you want to give an organizer a false W-9 form? (Unless you are actually in an applied for status if you were incorporating/LLC)
It is only going to cause the organizer to have to call you at the end of the year to get your actual TIN.

I carry a couple of filled out W-9's (form is available on the www.irs.gov (http://www.irs.gov) website) in my BBQ binder along with my health card and other docs I need to have to compete.


Seeing I am new as well, I am interested in the health card and other documents. Do you mean food saftey cert. by chance?

Thanks

didisea
12-27-2011, 08:18 PM
If you are going to vend you BBQ to the public, some county health depts require that you have your food worker card. In our state, Washington, you can go online and take the test, pay the 10 or 20 dollars and get your card. I think it should be required to compete, or at least the head cook should have one. Then people would know the basics of food safety.

In the PNWBA we also have to have the receipt showing the purchase date of our fire extinguisher.
So I just put copies all of those docs in those plastic sleeves in my BBQ binder so as to have them handy when the judges/health dept inspects my site.

Uncle T
12-27-2011, 08:25 PM
Ahh yes, Okies now I understand. Thanks for the reply..

Coz
12-27-2011, 08:39 PM
Well either he is mistaken or our CPA is wrong--you can deduct up to the extent of reported income or something like that---did that a couple years and it helped---alot



Thats what he used to do with the racing stuff .I guess I will have to question him again.

SirPorkaLot
12-27-2011, 08:46 PM
Ford ,my accountant had us doing this when I was racing but when we started this insanity of Comp BBQ he now says we cant deduct the expenses as a hobby .\

I'd advise checking with another accountant....

If you have to claim your winnings, then you have to have a method to deduct (part of) the cost of going after those winnings.

didisea
12-27-2011, 08:48 PM
In regards to deduct

didisea
12-27-2011, 08:53 PM
In regards to deducting your expenses, you can offset your BBQ winnings with your expenses, but you cannot use your BBQ expenses to offset other gains like investment income. See hobby losses

SirPorkaLot
12-27-2011, 09:26 PM
In regards to deducting your expenses, you can offset your BBQ winnings with your expenses, but you cannot use your BBQ expenses to offset other gains like investment income. See hobby losses

^^ True statement ^^

caseydog
12-27-2011, 09:51 PM
W-9 basically just tells the organizer what your name, address, and SSN/EIN/TIN is, so that they can send you a 1099 if you get any winnings and report it to the IRS. Sam's Club tried to require one from every team, winner or not, last year, and later removed the requirement. I've seen a few comps ask for winners to fill them out upon receipt of winnings. Apparently your competition is trying the original Sam's Club approach. In my experience, that is atypical.

dmp

I am self employed, and send out dozens of W-9s a year. No big deal. I even have one I can email.

Yes, it is just used by a customer who is required, or chooses to send out a 1099 to a vendor. Usually, they only ask for it if they are required to send 1099s.

I have no idea what that has to do with a BBQ Competition, but it is one of the easiest IRS forms to fill out.

As for identity theft, there are thousands of ways someone can get my SS number. Since I personally know everyone I send a W-9 to, and can show up on their doorstep with a lawyer and/or some 6 foot 6, 300 pound "assistant," I really don't sweat it. :becky:

CD

caseydog
12-27-2011, 09:59 PM
by law any prize money over $600 in total from the contest should be recorded and that organization has a legal obligation to file a 1099 with the IRS. To do this they need a W9 that lists your SSN/EIN (not sure what the TIN is).

Ahh, that makes sense. Yes, if there is prize money involved, you will need to give them a W-9. However, you should only have to do that if you actually win money. If you finish in 25th place, and there is no money paid out, then technically, there is no need for a W-9.

If you are really nervous about giving them a W-9 with your SS number on it, see if you can defer it to when, or if, you win something.

Otherwise, if you believe the competition organizers are ethical and professional, just fill it out and submit it.

CD

didisea
12-28-2011, 01:49 AM
OP - you may want to consider becoming a Single Member LLC, and be a disregarded entity. This will allow you to get an EIN as your TIN, and you won't have to pass out your SSN to folks.

dmprantz
12-28-2011, 07:49 AM
I guess this varies state by state, but I would consider getting a dba and then a sole proprietership, long before I considered an LLC. LLCs are great, but are among the most expensive companies to create. DBAs are darned near free an many states. I think this is a topic for another thread (Been discussed in many!)

dmp

esselle
12-28-2011, 08:23 AM
What if I were to come over from the UK and by some miracle win something? Do I need to fill in one of these or pay anything in taxes if the competition isn't a charity one?

roksmith
12-28-2011, 08:33 AM
If the competition requires a tax number, I believe you can file for a ITIN. I would think it would work for them.

didisea
12-28-2011, 12:23 PM
esselle - for the BBQ teams, it matters not whether the competition itself is for charitable purposes, the teams would still have to report their winnings on their applicable income tax returns.

Presuming you are a British citizen, you would have to fill out a W-8 BEN form instead of a W-9. For a copy of this form and the instructions see the www.irs.gov (http://www.irs.gov) website, and search "W-8."

I think you can avoid having to get an ITIN, which is an "individual taxpayer identification number," but it would depend on the British tax treaty provisions with the US. The "sticky wicket" would be that if the competion sponsor withholds any funds from your winnings for taxes. If they don't, there is no issue, but if they do you would need to know the tax treaty provisions between the US and GB. We believe that you might have the ability to take a foreign tax credit on your GB tax return, and that is how you would get credit for the income tax withheld in the US.
If you wind up having to file a US tax return to recover the funds withheld from your winnings, you would need to have the ITIN to file that return with the US IRS.
You should probably consult a foreign tax professional on your side of the pond to get the best advice on how it will ultimately work on your tax return.

Just Smokin' Around
12-28-2011, 10:44 PM
In regards to deducting your expenses, you can offset your BBQ winnings with your expenses, but you cannot use your BBQ expenses to offset other gains like investment income. See hobby losses

Deductions for hobby income are part of the Other Miscellaneous Deductions allowed on a Schedule-A. There are limits on what you can deduct - not the same as business expense allowances. Moreover, you can only deduct the amount over 2% of your AGI. So, you don't get to deduct it all. If you don't compete a lot, you may not get too far over the 2%. If you have an AGI of 50k, you can only deduct the amount over $1000.00. Now, if you have other valid misc deductions like uniforms, union dues, legal fees, tax preparation, etc., that gets added to the 2% threshold and it can work out okay.

A business account can work much better if you have one (catering / vending business). All expenses are deductible. But, you need a valid business and need to turn a profit every so often. You can't hide a hobby as a business - or, at least don't get caught trying.

Pigs on Fire
12-31-2011, 07:58 PM
Hope & Change