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motoeric
12-09-2011, 04:23 PM
Hi,

Has anyone ever had a problem where your team being sponsored by a company has upset a competition organizer?

For example, a radio station or restaurant sponsoring your team, so you hang their banners and such but the organizer offers category exclusivity to the events sponsors, including restaurants and radio stations?

Has anyone run into a situation like that?

Thanks,

Eric

Bourbon Barrel BBQ
12-09-2011, 04:27 PM
Im interested to hear what people have to say about this. We are in early talks with a bourbon distiller and I'm not sure the folks in Lynchburg would be happy with us flying their banner should we be lucky enough to get it.

QN
12-09-2011, 04:33 PM
Im interested to hear what people have to say about this. We are in early talks with a bourbon distiller and I'm not sure the folks in Lynchburg would be happy with us flying their banner should we be lucky enough to get it.

I can tell you from personal experience that you will not fly any banner or sign with any brown liquor product other than Jack in Lynchburg. A couple/few years ago I had to go ask a team to remove said identifiers from their site. They were very nice about it. They said they knew they would not be able to display it, but just wanted to get a photo. They took it down and went on with the contest. I have been involved with some other contests as described above where there are paying sponsors of the event and they have priority over individual team sponsors. I have seen some teams required to cover up logos on trailers to conceal sponsor logos when they conflicted with event sponsors. I don't think this is unusual. Hope this helps answer the questions.

motoeric
12-09-2011, 06:10 PM
Do you think that information about the events policy regarding team sponsorships should be included in the competitors application?


Eric

Pig Headed
12-09-2011, 06:58 PM
Absolutely. It could spare some embarrasing moments and hard feeling later.

Coz
12-09-2011, 08:27 PM
Sams Club events had some wording about sponsor signage ,I dont remember the exact wording.

Flavor Gangster
12-09-2011, 09:05 PM
It's a shame BBQ contests have become wannabe political marketing showcases. If you have a sponsor that is supporting your team you should be able to fly whatever the hell you want on your pit space. You paid for that 20x30 spot for the day.

To Any Organizers:
BBQ Manufactures or affiliates and BBQ as a segment in the food industry will not feel the pinch if your sponsor is the same as the organizers. They can't even track their current return on investmements as a large corporate sponsor. They should not be looking anywhere near the independants or small business sponsors.

Now, if Costco showed up with their own team to compete at a Sam's event you may have situation. Other than that, people should be less worried about banners and more concerned how their event is run.

Bourbon Barrel BBQ
12-09-2011, 09:35 PM
I can tell you from personal experience that you will not fly any banner or sign with any brown liquor product other than Jack in Lynchburg. A couple/few years ago I had to go ask a team to remove said identifiers from their site. They were very nice about it. They said they knew they would not be able to display it, but just wanted to get a photo. They took it down and went on with the contest. I have been involved with some other contests as described above where there are paying sponsors of the event and they have priority over individual team sponsors. I have seen some teams required to cover up logos on trailers to conceal sponsor logos when they conflicted with event sponsors. I don't think this is unusual. Hope this helps answer the questions.

I can cover a banner I cant change my team name. :)

Cloudsmoker
12-09-2011, 10:16 PM
HA! Now, you've definitely got a situation brewing with that one.

JD McGee
12-09-2011, 11:01 PM
We love our sponsors (Thanks Kosmo and Simply Marvelous!)...we're gonna fly their banners...or we ain't cookin'...:cool:

KC_Bobby
12-09-2011, 11:32 PM
It's a shame BBQ contests have become wannabe political marketing showcases. If you have a sponsor that is supporting your team you should be able to fly whatever the hell you want on your pit space. You paid for that 20x30 spot for the day.

Not really different then compitition sponsors. They help pay for all spaces, supplies, or maybe even prize money. If a team.sponsor is a direct competitor of theirs I don't blame an event sponsor for requesting non-competes.

Dr_KY
12-10-2011, 01:56 AM
I fly mine around the world but if I can't for some reason I see to it that I'm logo down on our uniforms.

I'm not sponsored by and I never received a flag but I fly the Brethren! :D

Australia

http://i43.tinypic.com/mm6fxc.jpg

Dr_KY
12-10-2011, 02:04 AM
Spicewine, ProQ and Grandhall. :)


Australia


http://i43.tinypic.com/hurnsp.jpg

Sawdustguy
12-10-2011, 06:27 PM
It's a shame BBQ contests have become wannabe political marketing showcases. If you have a sponsor that is supporting your team you should be able to fly whatever the hell you want on your pit space. You paid for that 20x30 spot for the day.

To Any Organizers:
BBQ Manufactures or affiliates and BBQ as a segment in the food industry will not feel the pinch if your sponsor is the same as the organizers. They can't even track their current return on investmements as a large corporate sponsor. They should not be looking anywhere near the independants or small business sponsors.

Now, if Costco showed up with their own team to compete at a Sam's event you may have situation. Other than that, people should be less worried about banners and more concerned how their event is run.

Political Marketing Showcases? Give it a rest. Even though you paid for your spot, every contest has rules that the competitor must follow. Your are not free to do whatever the hell you want. You really have to look at the big picture instead of having tunnel vision.

If I am a sponsor and pay good money to an organizer, the last thing I want is any recognition for my competition at contest I am paying to sponsor. Why would I spend money for something that potentially helps my competition? If that were to happen you have a company that will not sponsor your contest next year.

Your comment about large corporate sponsors is also way off base. Suppose Weber sponsors a contest (they sponsor a lot of contests) and the local Grill Store decides to compete. They put up a banner advertising they are a Brinkman distributor and on the banner is the statement, "Brinkman, the less costly alternative to Weber". How would you expect Weber to react when they are paying to sponsor the contest. I garranty Weber would never sponsor that contest again.

Remember, good reliable sponsors are difficult to find. You don't want to piss them off. No matter how well an event can be run, without sponsors, there is no event.

Flavor Gangster
12-10-2011, 08:11 PM
Thats cool man, they still won't feel it or catch it on there bottom line. I never liked rules much.

Wy should Weber care if a team shows up sponsored by Brinkman. Really. How does it effect there sales. Cmon dude! Seriously.

Frankbbq
12-10-2011, 08:44 PM
A few years ago, at the Royal, a team was told to remove a large banner. Last year at MIM it was mentioned that I had a Jack shirt on. I think that it was a MIM Board member.

Flavor Gangster
12-10-2011, 09:00 PM
Team sponsors are not the same as Comp sponsors. Totally different.

This is not the NFL and we aren't making millions as teams.
What next, Nike gonna sponsor a comp and tell everyone they can't wear Reebok on the awards stage. Gimme a break. it's BBQ!

If Sweet Baby Rays now made by Kens Foods. If they sponsored a comp I highly doubt they would care if Big Bob Gibson's Or Blues Hog Cooking Teams fly their colors.

Now, slots for event sponsors can be limited a specific business but that's entirely different.

"Chew chew chew, yum yum yum!"

swamprb
12-11-2011, 07:42 PM
I was cooking an event sponsored by an Ace Hardware and they came by and took my orange Homer Depot bucket under my hand wash Cambro and replaced it with an Ace bucket. It kinda pissed me off that they didn't ask me, so I told the guy I wanted it back. The organizer started giving me some chin music that I was insensitive to the sponsors desire to promote their local hardware store and not the "big box' stores items. A friggin' bucket!

So, I dutifully stuck by Homer bucket in the trailer and cooked!

dmprantz
12-11-2011, 09:31 PM
I find this thread very intriguing, and I'm reading with interest. I can see both sides. When an event has a sponsor, that sponsor can expect coverage to give its money, but when a team has a sponsor, that sponsor has usually provided something to the team for coverage itself. Is it fair to the event sponsor to pay money and have a competitor advertised? Is it fair to a team sponsor to pay money and not get its exposure?

Whenver people ask about competitive BBQ rules, I like to look at other competitive leagues to see how things are handled there. Looking at the NFL, who was the NFL's wireless sponsor in 2007? Sprint. Who was the Jaguars' stadium sponsor that year? Alltel. Who was the league's beer sponsor in 2009? Coors. Who was the league's beer sponsor in 2009? Coors. Who was the Dolphins' stadium sponsor that year? Landshark (An A-B brand). Who is the beer sponsor of the Cowboys? SABMiller. What about MLB? A-B is the sponsor there, but aren't the Brewers a playing advertisement for SABMiller, and the Rockies for Coors (not to mention their stadium sponsor)? Then there's NASCAR. I don't follow it, but are AT&T, Verizon and T-Mobile forbidden from advertising during Sprint Cup races? In 2008, wasn't there a Craftsman Truck Series event at Lowe's Motor Speedway? What about Nascar teams? Are they forbidden from having sponsors that conflict with the series' sponsor? These are really just the ones I can think of off the top of my head. I'm sure there are more. Seems to me like the norm is to allow sponsorships to be seperate. Please carry on....

dmp

TooSaucedToPork
12-11-2011, 09:41 PM
A few years ago, at the Royal, a team was told to remove a large banner. Last year at MIM it was mentioned that I had a Jack shirt on. I think that it was a MIM Board member.

:becky:Probably because all of us in TN like Jack:becky:

From what we have seen MIM has no rules about other organizations banners. KCBS had a trailer and an entire program set up there.

As far as sponsors at MIM, you have to disclose any corporate sponsor that you have on the application. Team sponsors aren't supposed to be direct competitors of contest sponsors. Sponsor banners can not be displayed if they are.

Like it or not, this is now nature of our sport. In order for Organizers to give big purses, they need big sponsors. Those sponsors have needs, and the need for exclusivity is usually at the top of their list. We are going to see more and more of this as purses get bigger.

Growing Pains.

Sawdustguy
12-12-2011, 12:25 PM
Thats cool man, they still won't feel it or catch it on there bottom line. I never liked rules much.

Wy should Weber care if a team shows up sponsored by Brinkman. Really. How does it effect there sales. Cmon dude! Seriously.

I doubt Weber would care about a team sponsored by Brinkman but if said team plastered Brinkman advertising all over their site they would care.

If you have no respect for the rules, maybe competitive BBQ is not for you.

Sawdustguy
12-12-2011, 01:14 PM
Poobah organized the Battle of the BBQ Brethren here nin New York. Maybe he will weigh in on the subject.

pigmaker23
12-13-2011, 09:43 AM
The BBQ Championship of New England is hosted and sponsored each year by The Harpoon Brewery at the Woodstock Vt Plant. As it is both a celebration of their beer and great BBQ it is a festival that now draws in excess of 5000 people. They have some strict rules and guidelines which we all may not agree with, but under no circumstance will any other beer related advertising be allowed to be shown, nor will any beer other than Harpoon be allowed on the grounds during the weekend, period. if they see other brands, it will be dumped out, its that simple. I dont really see this as a conflict between the sponsor and the teams, I see it more as a respect for the sponsor and the brand

JayAre
12-13-2011, 09:51 AM
Then there's NASCAR. I don't follow it, but are AT&T, Verizon and T-Mobile forbidden from advertising during Sprint Cup races? ....dmp

yes, they are forbidden, when Sprint took over from Winston, they allowed Altel to stay for to the end of the current sponsorship contract and were not allowed to extend or return. after all the grandfathering, no further wireless sponsors are allowed.

bottom line, its what the sponsor of a comp has in his contract/agreement, if they say teams cant have competing sponsors, then thats the way it is. if they dont care, then boys have at it.

ThomEmery
12-13-2011, 09:55 AM
Bud pays huge bucks to be the official beer
There aint going to be a Miller Lite sign flying high

Balls Casten
12-13-2011, 12:23 PM
Just let me know what the rules are before I enter; sponsors, drinking, music, quite hours .... then I can make a decission to enter or not and not have any suprizes when I get there.

Uncle T
12-13-2011, 12:26 PM
Well I am learning alot here guys and gals. I will have to admit the only comp I have done are the local ones small compared to most here. This is my first year in KCBS and IABS. So what I am reaading in nice to know. I know I have lots to learn yet, I know I was wrong about the cooking time. I now know I can still cook how I always have. I plan on going to a couple cooking classes up here in Iowa to learn more. anyways back on target here. I can see how it would upset some major sponsoirs. but I am sure your sponsors understand that you may nor be able to fly their banner at some places. I doubt they will drop you. Any ways I would hope they wouldn't.. Great posts and glad I joined the sight!!

JD McGee
12-13-2011, 12:41 PM
Just let me know what the rules are before I enter; sponsors, drinking, music, quite hours .... then I can make a decission to enter or not and not have any suprizes when I get there.

Bingo! If there is nothing in the sponsors rules then don't pitch a hissy-fit if we're flying our sponsors banners or using your competitiors bucket! We have no problems packin' up our gear and headin' home...

DawgPhan
12-13-2011, 01:05 PM
Bingo! If there is nothing in the sponsors rules then don't pitch a hissy-fit if we're flying our sponsors banners or using your competitiors bucket! We have no problems packin' up our gear and headin' home...


You should probably pack light with that attitude.

carlyle
12-13-2011, 04:41 PM
Interesting thread. Another issue with a lot of passion on both sides, and respectfully presented.

This has never been an issue with our contest. We have many small sponsors, not one big one. This thread illustrates one reason why we do not try to "bag a whale" for a sponsor.

Each team site has a sign of a local sponsor on it and we encourage those sponsors to go find "their team" and get acquainted . That works well.

Never saw any team fly a banner - but would love to see some pigs fly fellow Brethren.

This is the kind of conflict that we try to not let develop.
Don't want sponsors in a snit. Don't want teams mad or packing up and going home.

Balls Casten
12-13-2011, 05:54 PM
Agreed but if we're ever going to have a million dollar contest we're going to need a BIG whale and we're going to want to keep them happy!

Flavor Gangster
12-13-2011, 06:32 PM
I like the upfront news. If I am told from the beginning no sponsor banner fine. Sometimes teams take on new sponsors for just one contest. When I registered last year for an event I asked if it was ok that we give away Bloody Marys ag our booth. We got the ok. Then my sponsor was on board and went great.
It would be very upsetting if I arrived and had some yahoo tell me otherwise.
Checking for something big was natural, but a dimple 6' banner I may have not made that call.

JD McGee
12-13-2011, 08:46 PM
You should probably pack light with that attitude.

We do...:thumb: But the only "attitude" would be the one they have by not being forthcoming with the rules. How the hell are we supposed to know if THEY don't tell us...get real! :tsk:

HBMTN
12-14-2011, 09:00 PM
I have thought about this question myself but when you look at other sports like NASCAR you see the Home Depot sponsored car running at the Lowes Motor Speedway and the Bud and Coors car running at the Miller Lite 500 in years past. I think your cook space should be reserved for your sponsors who ever they should be.

Flavor Gangster
12-14-2011, 09:51 PM
Word!:grin:

Parts_Guy
12-15-2011, 04:42 PM
We do...:thumb: But the only "attitude" would be the one they have by not being forthcoming with the rules. How the hell are we supposed to know if THEY don't tell us...get real! :tsk:

^^^ A man with common sense.

Sawdustguy
12-15-2011, 08:33 PM
I guess it boils down to a little common sense. It should be spelled out in the contest rules but if a conflict is suspected an email or phone call to the organizer would go a long way to preventing a lot of heart ache and conflict. It's real easy to throw our chests out on an Internet forum but when it comes down to it I bet most of us want to have fun and cook without worrying about superfluous bullchit.

DawgPhan
12-16-2011, 10:02 AM
We do...:thumb: But the only "attitude" would be the one they have by not being forthcoming with the rules. How the hell are we supposed to know if THEY don't tell us...get real! :tsk:


It's your sponsorship. You should made sure that it was going to be alright with the contest. You are trying to make money off of someone else's contest. Calling ahead is the least that you could do in that case.

DawgPhan
12-16-2011, 10:03 AM
I have thought about this question myself but when you look at other sports like NASCAR you see the Home Depot sponsored car running at the Lowes Motor Speedway and the Bud and Coors car running at the Miller Lite 500 in years past. I think your cook space should be reserved for your sponsors who ever they should be.


Guessing you are not a contest organizer.

JD McGee
12-16-2011, 10:36 AM
It's your sponsorship. You should made sure that it was going to be alright with the contest. You are trying to make money off of someone else's contest. Calling ahead is the least that you could do in that case.

Not my sponsorship...I am the one being sponsored...and...I don't make a dime off them. They provide me with their products for free...in return I fly their banner to promote their products. I'm sure I'm the ONLY team that doesn't call each and every promoter to see if it's ok to fly my sponsor's banners...how rude of me!

DawgPhan
12-16-2011, 10:49 AM
Not my sponsorship...I am the one being sponsored...and...I don't make a dime off them. They provide me with their products for free...in return I fly their banner to promote their products. I'm sure I'm the ONLY team that doesn't call each and every promoter to see if it's ok to fly my sponsor's banners...how rude of me!


guessing it is the first or last time you will be rude to someone.

JD McGee
12-16-2011, 11:36 AM
guessing it is the first or last time you will be rude to someone.

This is actually becoming pretty comical...so...what you are saying (please correct me if I'm wrong here) is that EVERY team with a sponsor should check with EVERY competition promoter to see if it's ok to fly their sponsors banners BEFORE signing up to cook the event?

HBMTN
12-16-2011, 11:58 AM
Guessing you are not a contest organizer.

You guessed correct, but in all sports that I know of where there are competitors who have sponsors NASCAR being the easiest example like I stated above competitors have sponsors who are in direct competition against the sponsors of events. It's also a two way street, the contests are making money off of the competitors. Teams are not trying to make money from contests they are simply trying to offset te huge costs which will allow them to do more contests. After all if teams can't afford to compete then contests are up the creek also.

Slamdunkpro
12-16-2011, 12:01 PM
Here's my take on it. Unlike the NFL or NASCAR there is no sponsor revenue sharing programs with the teams. Unless a contest returns 100% or more of the entry fees back to the cooks they are using the cooks as a revenue source. While a comp is certainly entitled to set it's own rules for team displays (these restrictions should be disclosed on the entry form) I think it's disingenuous for the organizer/comp/sanctioning body to make money off of sponsorships and the cooks while at the same time restricting the cook's ability to defray the cost of participating via sponsorship displays.

Sawdustguy
12-16-2011, 01:28 PM
Here's my take on it. Unlike the NFL or NASCAR there is no sponsor revenue sharing programs with the teams. Unless a contest returns 100% or more of the entry fees back to the cooks they are using the cooks as a revenue source. While a comp is certainly entitled to set it's own rules for team displays (these restrictions should be disclosed on the entry form) I think it's disingenuous for the organizer/comp/sanctioning body to make money off of sponsorships and the cooks while at the same time restricting the cook's ability to defray the cost of participating via sponsorship displays.

I can see that this is going to be a pissing contest but I heartily disagree with you. This is BBQ, not Nascar or the NFL. Few of us make a living at this. I just don't feel that it is our business how the organizer makes his money. We as teams can make a decision on whether to cook based on the prize fund, entry fee and rules. If the organizer states in the rules that banners are not to be displayed if they conflict with a sponsor, the team can make a decision if they want to participate based on the prize fund or entry fee. If a team decides that they do not like the rules, fee or prizes they can decide not to participate. It is as simple as that. If an organizer was forced to live up to a revenue sharing agreement I think we would see much fewer contests.

Being you referenced the NFL, I also disagree with the way their player compensation is structured. Do you think your boss would pay you a salary and give you half of his profits? Revenue sharing is greed plain and simple. I was happy when this years lockout was ended, not because the players got a good deal. I just felt badly about all of the little guys that were getting hurt like the vendor or stadium employees who depend on their salaries to feed their families. Where else is a business required to give half of it's profits to the employees? It's just pure greed.

dmprantz
12-16-2011, 01:44 PM
Lots of companies have various forms of revenue sharing. This was a collectively bargained and agreed upon revenue sharing plan between business owners and their employees. It sounds to me like your understanding of the salary cap may be a bit skewed. While there is a minimum level of the cap to be followed, the real import of the NFL's salary system is to ensure that no team spends more than the agreed upon limit. That's why they call it a cap, and not a minimum. Regardless, just to play DA, how many other industries do you know where an employer can say to his employees "I want you to sign a contract with me that prevents you from working for any of my competitors for X years, and you don't have a right to any more money between now and then, but I can fire you any time I want?" I think it's a big ball of CBA, and owners want to have "rights" to players and the abillity to cut them, players are going to want to ensure that they get something out of it. Keep in mind that Free Agency and the Salary Cap were instigated at the same time to counter-balance each other.

dmp

Slamdunkpro
12-16-2011, 04:31 PM
I can see that this is going to be a pissing contest but I heartily disagree with you.
I don't know that we're that far apart...
This is BBQ, not Nascar or the NFL. Few of us make a living at this.
Irrelevant
I just don't feel that it is our business how the organizer makes his money.
The reverse is also true
We as teams can make a decision on whether to cook based on the prize fund, entry fee and rules. If the organizer states in the rules that banners are not to be displayed if they conflict with a sponsor, the team can make a decision if they want to participate based on the prize fund or entry fee. If a team decides that they do not like the rules, fee or prizes they can decide not to participate.
Absolutely agree - the team has the ultimate authority to choose to participate or not in the event.
It is as simple as that. If an organizer was forced to live up to a revenue sharing agreement I think we would see much fewer contests.
See below
Being you referenced the NFL, I also disagree with the way their player compensation is structured.
I wasn't referring to the player's relationship with the team, I was referring to the way the League share revenue with the team franchises

I think you're missing the point of the revenue sharing comment, let me try and explain my point better. In the NFL and NASCAR (and some other games / sports) advertizing and sponsorship revenue is shared between the League and the team franchises. As a team you can't run an AT&T car in the Sprint cup but your team does get Sprint sponsorship dollars as prize money, exposure via the Sprint cup and direct support via the revenue sharing system.

Back to BBQ, events(organizers) generate revenue in a number of ways - team entry fees, sponsorships, admission sales, vendor fees etc. That's all fine but I think it's kinda crappy to tell a competitor who's paying money to participate in your event that you're also choking off their outside revenue stream. It's even crappier to surprise them with it the day of the event.

JD McGee
12-16-2011, 04:38 PM
"Back to BBQ, events(organizers) generate revenue in a number of ways - team entry fees, sponsorships, admission sales, vendor fees etc. That's all fine but I think it's kinda crappy to tell a competitor who's paying money to participate in your event that you're also choking off their outside revenue stream. It's even crappier to surprise them with it the day of the event."

WOW! Ya'll get to make money off your sponsors product...??? (other than winning the comp with it)!!! I gotta have me a talk with mine about some kick-backs! Hey Steph and Darian...where's my damn money (Myron mod)...??? Lol!

Slamdunkpro
12-16-2011, 04:58 PM
WOW! Ya'll get to make money off your sponsors product...??? (other than winning the comp with it)!!! I gotta have me a talk with mine about some kick-backs! Hey Steph and Darian...where's my damn money (Myron mod)...??? Lol!

Don't you??:shocked:

JD McGee
12-16-2011, 05:53 PM
Don't you??:shocked:

Lol! The only money we make is if we win...or at least place in the money for each meat or side category. We are also very thankful for our sponsors...they shoulder all the expenses to manufacture and ship their product to us...it's the least we can do to fly their banner and talk up their products...especially if we are fortunate enough to win with them!

big brother smoke
12-16-2011, 10:01 PM
Ahhhh the joys of winter!

JD McGee
12-16-2011, 10:12 PM
Ahhhh the joys of winter!

Lol! Yup...looks like it's gonna be a long one...

Matt_A
12-17-2011, 11:51 AM
Interesting thread. Another issue with a lot of passion on both sides, and respectfully presented.

This has never been an issue with our contest. We have many small sponsors, not one big one. This thread illustrates one reason why we do not try to "bag a whale" for a sponsor.



If you have one "whale" sponsor and lose it... you're toast. If you have twenty small to moderate sponsors and lose one it's not a good thing, but you still survive. And it helps to avoid the sponsorship conflicts.

JD McGee
12-17-2011, 01:03 PM
If you have one "whale" sponsor and lose it... you're toast. If you have twenty small to moderate sponsors and lose one it's not a good thing, but you still survive. And it helps to avoid the sponsorship conflicts.

If anyone ever lands a "whale" to sponsor a million dollar event in this country...and if that "whale" doesn't want anyone else flying sponsor banners but him/her...I'm pretty sure my sponsors won't mind us not flying their banners...:cool: More than likely our sponsors will be there NOT flying their own banners for a shot at that purse...:becky:

Since that possibility is fairly remote...unless Ronnie Cates lands a biggie in Vegas in the future (and then I'm fairly certain Ronnie doesn't give a rat's patootie about who's banner you fly)...then we'll stick to cookin' our twenty or so small fry comps per year that allow us to fly our banners...:thumb: