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View Full Version : What's up with the complaining?


wormdrink67
11-26-2011, 09:19 AM
The KCBS Comp in Cumming, GA last weekend was awesome. 92 pro teams and many of those being top teams in the country. I'd recommend this comp to anyone who likes to mash it up with the best of the best.

However, I encountered several teams that said the comp was too big, they didn't like comps with over 50 teams and that they wouldn't return next year because of it. Am I missing something? As a competitor, I don't understand who wouldn't want to be in a field of that caliber.

JohnKinMD
11-26-2011, 09:32 AM
The KCBS Comp in Cumming, GA last weekend was awesome. 92 pro teams and many of those being top teams in the country. I'd recommend this comp to anyone who likes to mash it up with the best of the best.

However, I encountered several teams that said the comp was too big, they didn't like comps with over 50 teams and that they wouldn't return next year because of it. Am I missing something? As a competitor, I don't understand who wouldn't want to be in a field of that caliber.

Some people just have a fear of large contest.

TooSaucedToPork
11-26-2011, 09:37 AM
The KCBS Comp in Cumming, GA last weekend was awesome. 92 pro teams and many of those being top teams in the country. I'd recommend this comp to anyone who likes to mash it up with the best of the best.

However, I encountered several teams that said the comp was too big, they didn't like comps with over 50 teams and that they wouldn't return next year because of it. Am I missing something? As a competitor, I don't understand who wouldn't want to be in a field of that caliber.

There's a bunch of reasons teams do this:
1. They like being the Big Dog at a contest
2. They are just getting started and are intimidated by alot of Big Name Teams
3. They fund their contest schedule with winnings - they feel if you put too many big fish in the pond and they kill each others chances of big money
4. Some people like how it used to be, with just 40-50 teams...they can't take the growth and change the sport is undergoing
5.There are probably a thousand different reasons why they would say this but the main one is...Us BBQ people just like to B#tch alot :becky:

I bet when you return next year they will all be there competing, and spouting off the same things as this year...

Neil

Scottie
11-26-2011, 10:35 AM
The sooner young cooks learn that it's you vs. judges and not vs. the 'big name' teams. Big name teams dont control the contest. You do as a cook. I personally enjoy cooking against the 'big boys'. If you cant get up for cooking against the best, then youre not a competitor.

Go out and have fun, cook your best and dont worry about anyone else.

'You' is used in general terms.

Rookie'48
11-26-2011, 12:12 PM
The team that puts the "best" product on the "best" table is going to win. Admittedly, the "big boys" have a better shot at this because they cook more and have spent more time refining their skills, but like they say: "On any given Saturday ....." :becky:.

Hub
11-26-2011, 03:16 PM
Cumming was a first class contest, especially for a first year event. Great sponsor work and super reps on hand. Big name competitors to challenge the entrants. It doesn't get much better. Anyone who complains has no basis for it.

Hub

HarleyEarl
11-26-2011, 05:01 PM
I was not at this contest, however I do have experience with both large and small contests alike. I love the intimacy of the smaller contests (even if five of the top ten teams in the nation are there) and the intense competition of the larger ones. I don’t look at the contest size when planning which to go to, but rather the reputation of the organizers or personal experience with any given contest.

Some of the issues/complaining could have been driven by the organizers – two specifics stick out in my mind from this year:

1) when a contest gets big, the organizer crams teams into spots – I did a contest this year that went from 30 some teams to 50 some teams and this year over 70 – numerous teams had to contend with cooking in muddy sites or grass that was so slick you could barely stay on your feet. This IMHO was to fill the coffers of the organizer – I will not return.
2) Also as the number of contestants grows, the payout should grow and the number of calls should be expanded. If you have a small contest, say 25 or less teams ribbons & cash to the top five is fine, 25 to 50 teams should at least call the top ten & cash to at least the top five but top ten would be nice, 50 – 75 teams should at least call the top 15 & cash to the top ten but top 15 would be nice, and any contest with over 75 teams should call the top 20 and cash to the top 15 but top 20 would be nice. The contest mentioned above only gave ribbons out to the top 5 and cash to the top three if I remember right – as stated before I will not return.

Sorry for the long rant, but these smaller contest that grow too big too fast without taking care of the teams will earn a bad reputation and lose teams quickly.

BBQchef33
11-26-2011, 05:12 PM
10 teams or 100 teams.. shouldnt matter.. Your cooking for the judges, not against the teams. IMhO, if the contest was a first year event, and was well organized, the teams will come back, and for every one that drops out, 2 more may fill the spot. We were actually considering going to this contest, but the drive was 930 miles. I wussed out.

jbrink01
11-26-2011, 06:27 PM
What Scottie said. Our 1st contest was 70+ teams and we got 1 call (4th) and no money. I was and still am a nobody, but, I ain't scared........Up against 100 or 2, you still have to be the best that day.

HarleyEarl
11-26-2011, 06:39 PM
10 teams or 100 teams.. shouldnt matter.. Your cooking for the judges, not against the teams. IMhO, if the contest was a first year event, and was well organized, the teams will come back, and for every one that drops out, 2 more may fill the spot. We were actually considering going to this contest, but the drive was 930 miles. I wussed out.

I agree, the reputation of the organizer will carry this contest. Cooking against the best just betters your "game." It's also nice if you can get a higher call than one of the Big Boys. The teams that complained probably don't compete much and could learn a lot by just watching how relaxed the experienced teams are at the event and talking with them - not shigging though - that could cause problems.

moosesbbq
11-26-2011, 08:35 PM
I look at each event as a competition against myself. Staying consistent, only changing what I have proven and tested. Leaving what works alone. Anyone can win a competition on any day. It depends on you. Having a large attendance or big names in the space next to you don't cost you a comp.

Scottie from CSC is right. Have fun, that's why we do this.

Gowan
11-27-2011, 05:19 AM
We cooked at Cumming. Randall & Company did a fine job, and we will probably be back. Still, I can appreciate those that express a preference for smaller shows. In addition to the longer odds and reduced intimacy already noted, the increased number of teams can make getting in and out more of a hassle, and the larger crowds may be an annoyance for some cooks.

I like both kinds of contests. Big and small can both be good, as long as the event is well managed and the participants made to feel appreciated.

Kit R
11-27-2011, 07:39 AM
The sooner young cooks learn that it's you vs. judges and not vs. the 'big name' teams. Big name teams dont control the contest. You do as a cook. I personally enjoy cooking against the 'big boys'. If you cant get up for cooking against the best, then youre not a competitor.

Go out and have fun, cook your best and dont worry about anyone else.

'You' is used in general terms.

Got that right.

Jason TQ
11-27-2011, 06:25 PM
As a rookie team this year this was by far the largest competition we cooked. Largest before was around 50ish teams. While we knew it would be tough we were excited to see ow our food would stack up. We did great for us and had an awesome time.

Iamarealbigdog
11-28-2011, 08:31 AM
I would like to offer an opposing thought, we did a several small competitions in one particular state and not one event was over 50 teams, most events 1/2 that amount, very friendly and warm. We developed many new relationships and my team looks forward to do these as fun social events.

Last year a large competition came to that state with many large power teams in attendance. Of course we signed up and then started queering if or local friends were going to attend. They told me that they would not.

Their thought was the more power travel teams attended, the less opportunity for them to get a call. They felt they were merely fodder for the prize pool. This was not an isolated opinion but systemic with several teams offering the same thought. We went and the atmosphere was very different. Getting to the podium was tough, got a call and thankful for the one, it paid our registration fees.

I get what they are saying, this is the transition from what BBQ was, and the progression of what the BBQ “Sport” is turning out to be. Don’t get me wrong, I like to cook with the big boys, but there is something to say about a small intimate event. It’s not always about winning but the comradeship of the competitors verses the chase for points, prestige and money. Its just a very different game hat.



Cheers

Mike -- The Black Pig BBQ
London Ontario Canada

Divemaster
11-28-2011, 11:00 AM
The only issue I have with larger contests is the fact that they often have a rougher time getting experienced judges.

I may be the only one with this opinion but, I really don't like going to a contest where they have a judging class on Friday night to judge Saturday afternoon.

Scottie
11-28-2011, 12:54 PM
I like cooking small intimate contests as well. I also recognize that i am a team that folks recognize from what i do for cancer research. i also know it gives some of the smaller or local teams great pride when they say they beat a World Champion. Honestly, i am happy for them that i cooked like crap and they beat me... POS judges.... :becky:


I of course am joking...

Divemaster
11-28-2011, 01:48 PM
The only other problem I have with the larger contests is that I just don't have enough time to see all of my friends.

Gowan
11-28-2011, 05:10 PM
The only issue I have with larger contests is the fact that they often have a rougher time getting experienced judges.

I may be the only one with this opinion but, I really don't like going to a contest where they have a judging class on Friday night to judge Saturday afternoon.

I think most would agree that events that permit a slew of freshly-minted judges delivers some wild variations in scoring.

I've heard that contests in other parts of the country have a hard time getting enough judges, but that is an area where we have no problems here in Georgia. Even with 14 KCBS events in our state in 2011, we have so many CBJs that there are typically 3-4 judges applying for every seat at contests here. It gives organizers the luxury of being able to pick and choose what judges they use, which usually is good for the teams. Not so good for new judges though, as the common complaint is they apply to many contests without being given the opportunity to judge.

Supply and demand...

trueque
11-28-2011, 05:28 PM
I like competition and I like bitching... its who I am!

See you at a comp in 2012...

Jacked UP BBQ
11-28-2011, 06:05 PM
Bigger event, bigger crap shoot. The better teams still usually finish in the top. You know what to expect going in so dont go if you dont want to... It's BBQ, its full of BIOTCHES!

Lake Dogs
11-29-2011, 07:28 AM
I had an opportunity this past year to witness a competition go from a smaller mostly local non-sanctioned barbecue competition to a sanctioned competition. While the draw was still fairly small by most standards (the 12+- original teams plus another 15+- teams that follow the sanctioning body), not one single team of the original made the top 5 in any category other than one of the ancillaries, and if I recall correctly it was only 1 of the 12+- original teams that cracked the top 10. I remember talking with the organizer a few years back and while she and the teams wanted it to be sanctioned, she was worried that they'd lose their teams and subsequently lose the local "charm". We'll have to see where next year takes them.

They also went from only about 50% of the judges being certified in a sanctioning body to 100% CBJ's this time.

Iamarealbigdog
11-29-2011, 08:01 AM
That's an interesting thought, travel teams know what Certified Barbeque Judges are expecting and cook for that appearance, texture and taste profile. It's almost a standardization of our product. I'm not convinced that is necessarily a good thing. It's nice to improve your product and we need to make advances in our taste profile.

I do not think all of our meat should taste like FAB brisket or Parkay brown sugar ribs. Nor do I think we should all produce butter poached pan chicken (yes I said poached).

I do not cook what I like and unfortunately I also contribute to the parody of competition BBQ and cook what the judges expect. As for myself I do not cook other peoples rubs, injections or sauces, itís all mine. If Iím not changing up my taste profile, Iím not going to crest the top of the top. Thus, a small regional contest is also where I like to fool around with my recipes and cook apart from the same homogeneous fair. It's also a great place to cook and present white meat apart from the Jack.

My hatís off to the small events, they are the grass roots of our sport and the development of small teams that support this bbq movement. I agree they have their place and I fully understand and support why a team would not want to cook at big events.

No complaints, but admiration for small events and pure local teams.

Just pondering a thought, no right or wrong, just a thought.


Mike - The Black Pig BBQ
London Ontario

smokeyw
11-29-2011, 08:40 AM
I saw a small, very well run contest go bigger. They forgot that they needed to make some changes in how they ran the contest and their facilities. It was obviously too big for them to manage in the same manner they had previously. It resulted in a lot of upset competitors who have never been back to their event again.

Jeff_in_KC
11-29-2011, 11:21 AM
I would like to offer an opposing thought, we did a several small competitions in one particular state and not one event was over 50 teams, most events 1/2 that amount, very friendly and warm. We developed many new relationships and my team looks forward to do these as fun social events.

Last year a large competition came to that state with many large power teams in attendance. Of course we signed up and then started queering if or local friends were going to attend. They told me that they would not.

Their thought was the more power travel teams attended, the less opportunity for them to get a call. They felt they were merely fodder for the prize pool. This was not an isolated opinion but systemic with several teams offering the same thought. We went and the atmosphere was very different. Getting to the podium was tough, got a call and thankful for the one, it paid our registration fees.

I get what they are saying, this is the transition from what BBQ was, and the progression of what the BBQ ďSportĒ is turning out to be. Donít get me wrong, I like to cook with the big boys, but there is something to say about a small intimate event. Itís not always about winning but the comradeship of the competitors verses the chase for points, prestige and money. Its just a very different game hat.


Mike, while I respect your opinion and I also enjoy smaller contests AND the bigger ones, I have to ask... if it's not about winning and points (which I'm fine with) but rather about the camaraderie, why does it matter if "big boys" who travel show up to cook the contest? Anyone has a chance to win prizes and teams can still visit and have fun together. Some of the biggest contests in the nation have seen teams get together for fun and relaxing potlucks on Thursday or Friday nights... the Royal, the Jack and the old Smoke on the Water event in Little Rock included. The contest we put on here in Pleasant Hill had 77 teams last year. There was a large group who had a potluck. One group had a "cigar lounge" and another hosted a jam session where several folks got together to play guitar, harmonica, etc and enjoy an enormous pan of cheese dip and chips at midnight. I guess my point is that these contests, regardless of size, are what you make them and they are what you want them to be.

Rich Parker
11-29-2011, 11:49 AM
.. One group had a "cigar lounge" ...

Cigar lounge...Sweet idea!

Jorge
11-29-2011, 12:25 PM
My name is George Mullins and I'm a candidate for the KCBS BoD.

My opinion is that people need to shut up and cook:becky: The growth of the event is up to the organizer. What happens at the event is up to the cook/team. If they want to focus on cooking, then more power to them. If they are looking for fellowship and a good time, then more power to them and I hope to be able to visit them at some point.

It is what it is, and more importantly it is what YOU MAKE IT! I passed on the cigar lounge Jeff mentioned above when I was volunteering at Pleasant Hill because I had to get to the hotel to do some work, and there was some choice Scotch in there as well. It's what you make of the opportunity.

Live within the rules and you can have a great time. If you are local and you don't depend on $$ to cook the following week there is no reason to fear traveling teams. If you do need the $$, then the fact is that you need to cook better or lose the fear of those that travel. KCBS.us and the results available make it clear that the big dogs don't always chew up the competition.

It's just BBQ for most of us, and those that have a business to promote have that factored in or should. I don't want to figure out what I spent on BBQ this year, but if I did I know it would be worth it. I had the loan of a Jambo for 3 months, and the owner spent time at the house with my family between assignments in different parts of the country. Ignore the loan of the pit. He's family for life now. Cooking a contest in Austin, TX I had an invite to an event with a team I'd never met. My schedule wouldn't allow me to go check out the World Championship Goat Cookoff in Brady, but I had the opportunity.

Shut up and Cook!:becky:

Edit: My name is George Mullins, and I have approved this message:becky:

ique
11-29-2011, 12:29 PM
Shut up and Cook!:becky:


I would like this sticker for my cooker. Thanks

Iamarealbigdog
11-29-2011, 12:29 PM
I guess my point is that these contests, regardless of size, are what you make them and they are what you want them to be.

I do not disagree in any manor, you are absolutely right; a team gets what they put into it. One of the best events we went to last year was Memphis in May, one of the largest competitions and most expensive there is. We met new teams and developed great friendships. I have to tip my hat to Neil, Mike and Blake of Too Sauced to Pork for getting us through Memphis and helping some "out of towners".

What I'm getting at is that the dynamics are different at a larger event where teams travel to attend, costs are higher and the competitors viewpoint changes. I seldom see Wagyo brisket at small local events nor do I see Berkshire shoulders (or collars) for that matter, it is more about what bbq was. We are talking about non-state championships, no Jack ticket draw and small prize payouts.

Don't get me wrong I like big events; we are trying to work our schedule for 2012 to include the largest ones.

However, back to the original thread topic, I get why some teams do not like larger events. In today's economy teams have to make a choice of what event they cook. Given that restriction, many small local teams do not want to be fiscal fodder for numerous power teams in search of a Jack ticket and another title. In a pool of 20 teams with one or two power teams, they have a chance of a call which is good enough for them.

Itís not right nor is it wrong; in my humble opinion its just different dynamics.

Iamarealbigdog
11-29-2011, 12:33 PM
Shut up and Cook!:becky:

Edit: My name is George Mullins, and I have approved this message:becky:


Wow fast posting thread:doh:

Scottie
11-29-2011, 02:07 PM
I would like this sticker for my cooker. Thanks



Thanks for a great idea. Im going to have my IP guys look into "Just Q it".

TooSaucedToPork
11-29-2011, 03:32 PM
I do not disagree in any manor, you are absolutely right; a team gets what they put into it. One of the best events we went to last year was Memphis in May, one of the largest competitions and most expensive there is. We met new teams and developed great friendships. I have to tip my hat to Neil, Mike and Blake of Too Sauced to Pork for getting us through Memphis and helping some "out of towners".

Our pleasure...We just spreadin the BBQ Love brother, looking forward to hanging with ya'll again soon!

Neil

Jeff_in_KC
11-29-2011, 05:07 PM
Thanks for a great idea. Im going to have my IP guys look into "Just Q it".

Kinder, gentler "Shut Up and Cook"??? :becky:

By the way, Scottie, I've been meaning to tell you how much I appreciated you stopping by on your fast blast through the Jack to say hello on Friday night! Meant a lot that you'd come in and say hi when you were pressed for time!

kihrer
11-29-2011, 08:02 PM
Kinder, gentler "Shut Up and Cook"??? :becky:



For some of us Farkers that's harder done than said:icon_shy

Scottie
11-29-2011, 09:39 PM
Kinder, gentler "Shut Up and Cook"??? :becky:

By the way, Scottie, I've been meaning to tell you how much I appreciated you stopping by on your fast blast through the Jack to say hello on Friday night! Meant a lot that you'd come in and say hi when you were pressed for time!


Happy i was able to see you guys Jeff. I was glad there still a lot of folks up at 10:30 to entertain me... :thumb:

Iamarealbigdog
12-02-2011, 02:09 PM
Our pleasure...We just spreadin the BBQ Love brother


and spreading the margaritas around as well