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View Full Version : Team of the year vs Cook of the year


YankeeBBQ
11-08-2011, 04:26 PM
I posted this on another forum but I thought it would be worth posting here as well.

Facts: I've cooked with I Smell Smoke for almost 15 years with Doug, Charlie and Carlotta. Doug, Charlie and myself all know the program so anyone of us could cook a KCBS contest using the 'I Smell Smoke methods'


Question 1: If I can't make it to a contest because I have a wedding to attend or catering job or any number of reasons but the rest of the 'Team' can should we be eligible for KCBS TOY points ? I think we should be. It is called TEAM of the year.


Question 2: If there are two contests in our area one with Saturday turn ins and the other with Sunday turn ins should we be allowed to split the team and get TOY points from both contests. I know of teams that have done this. Personally I don't like this practice but as far as I know it's not against the rules at this time. My team has never done this and I wouldn't feel comfortable doing it.



Question 3: If none of my regular team members can make it to a contest and we happen to be in the race for KCBS TOY should I be allowed to pay someone to compete for us and get TOY points. I have a real problem with this. Again I don't know that it's against the rules but I feel it's against the spirit of the TOY race.



Question 4: If I'm the only member of my team that can make it to a contest is it ok for me to invite a head cook from another team to cook with me ? I feel it is ok but I also feel this might make me a hypocrite. I've enjoyed cooking with other people and I've never done it to gain points for TOY in fact it's never even been a consideration.



Question 5: If there is an invitational that I'm invited to but there is also a KCBS contest on the same weekend should I be allowed to split up the team and cook both contests ? I'm really not sure how I feel about this. I can see arguments for and against it.



My name is Steve Farrin and I'm running for the KCBS Board of Directors

Rich Parker
11-08-2011, 05:06 PM
Yes
Yes
No
Yes
No - If you are suggesting these contests are on the same day otherwise refer to answer of the second question.

YankeeBBQ
11-08-2011, 05:11 PM
Yes
Yes
No
Yes
No - If you are suggesting these contests are on the same day otherwise refer to answer of the second question.

What if question 5 involves 2 different sanctioning organizations ?

Rich Parker
11-08-2011, 05:18 PM
What if question 5 involves 2 different sanctioning organizations ?

Interesting question.

Two different sanctioning organizations means two different TOY programs, so i would say "Yes" it should be allowed.

Ford
11-09-2011, 07:01 AM
Don't think we need both TOY and COY. One or the other. I like TOY. Maybe the rules for it need a little tweaking and I'd cut back on the money paid out for sure.

I think now the KCBS says they use the head cooks member # for tracking. You can register mu;tiple head cooks for a team so long as they are KCBS members. So if you bring in a ringer for one contest and that person cooks for another team and is registered the points would go to that team not yours. Of course I'm not sure our current scoring system tracks member #'s so that could be a problem. Hopefully the new one will adress all these TOY issues.

musicmanryann
11-09-2011, 08:15 AM
I am right with you on everything Steve, and especially on Question 1. Thanks for posting this discussion.

Tarheel
11-09-2011, 08:31 AM
Someone on another forum brought up an idea that would be interesting to see how it would affect the outcome for toy. You would average all of a teams cook vs using only there top ten. I thing there would still have to be a mimum number of contest cooked to qualify.

Jorge
11-09-2011, 09:04 AM
I posted this on another forum but I thought it would be worth posting here as well.

Facts: I've cooked with I Smell Smoke for almost 15 years with Doug, Charlie and Carlotta. Doug, Charlie and myself all know the program so anyone of us could cook a KCBS contest using the 'I Smell Smoke methods'


Question 1: If I can't make it to a contest because I have a wedding to attend or catering job or any number of reasons but the rest of the 'Team' can should we be eligible for KCBS TOY points ? I think we should be. It is called TEAM of the year.

Agreed.


Question 2: If there are two contests in our area one with Saturday turn ins and the other with Sunday turn ins should we be allowed to split the team and get TOY points from both contests. I know of teams that have done this. Personally I don't like this practice but as far as I know it's not against the rules at this time. My team has never done this and I wouldn't feel comfortable doing it. I'm torn. I don't want to see KCBS get any more involved in telling teams where they can and can't cook than what is absolutely necessary. The same applies to telling teams who they can and can't cook with. If team X chooses to split for a weekend and cook two contests, I don't know that we should be telling anyone that they can't do it or that TOY points will not be awarded. In the case of the latter example do we award the higher point total or force the team to designate which contest they want to count in advance?



Question 3: If none of my regular team members can make it to a contest and we happen to be in the race for KCBS TOY should I be allowed to pay someone to compete for us and get TOY points. I have a real problem with this. Again I don't know that it's against the rules but I feel it's against the spirit of the TOY race. No.



Question 4: If I'm the only member of my team that can make it to a contest is it ok for me to invite a head cook from another team to cook with me ? I feel it is ok but I also feel this might make me a hypocrite. I've enjoyed cooking with other people and I've never done it to gain points for TOY in fact it's never even been a consideration. Again, I don't think KCBS needs to be telling people who they can cook with. At the end of the day you have to weigh whether the gossip that would stir up was worth it to you. Personally, I don't care. It didn't bother me when you and Scottie cooked Qlossal with Rod several years ago. If people started forming 'super teams' for the purpose of chasing points I'd be willing to look at it again, but for now I'm not comfortable telling anyone who they can associate or cook with.



Question 5: If there is an invitational that I'm invited to but there is also a KCBS contest on the same weekend should I be allowed to split up the team and cook both contests ? I'm really not sure how I feel about this. I can see arguments for and against it. Todd Johns wanted to do that during the first Sam's Club event in Midwest City. He was told 'No' even though one was an invitational.

To pick up the variation below, I don't think KCBS has any business telling a team what they can or can't do involving another sanctioning body.



My name is Steve Farrin and I'm running for the KCBS Board of Directors

ique
11-09-2011, 09:46 AM
Question 5: If there is an invitational that I'm invited to but there is also a KCBS contest on the same weekend should I be allowed to split up the team and cook both contests ? I'm really not sure how I feel about this. I can see arguments for and against it.



Todd Johns wanted to do that during the first Sam's Club event in Midwest City. He was told 'No' even though one was an invitational.

I believe that was same day. There is no problem in KCBS rules with teams cooking multiple events in the same weekend one on Sat, the other on Sun

Tarheel
11-09-2011, 05:16 PM
Ok, if you just play around with it a little and average the total points teams have. there are some that would drop out of the top ten and some that would move up into the top ten. Check Able Acres out. They have cooked 10 contest, got 5 grands, and 2 reserves. They would move to number 2 overall. Just saying very interesting.

Smokedelic
11-09-2011, 07:11 PM
I think KCBS rule # 2 spells it out pretty clearly. That rule either needs to be enforced or reworded to reflect it's actual intent if the intent is other than what is stated in the rule.

Rule 2) Each team shall consist of a chief cook and as many assistants as the chief cook deems necessary. Each team, whether it's Team Enoserv, I Smell Smoke, Big Creek, etc. must designate a chief cook.
A team shall not compete in more than one contest under the same team name, on the same date. A team cannot be competing on the same day at 2 different contests.
Chief cooks and/or assistant cooks may only cook for their designated team at the contest they are attending.The Chief cook must be in attendance for their designated team.

It seems pretty straightforward to me. A team must have a chief cook and that chief cook must be in attendance at the contest and it must be the only contest the team is competing in on that day, or it is a violation of Rule #2.

Maybe I'm missing something here?

ique
11-09-2011, 07:21 PM
Question 2: If there are two contests in our area one with Saturday turn ins and the other with Sunday turn ins should we be allowed to split the team and get TOY points from both contests. I know of teams that have done this. Personally I don't like this practice but as far as I know it's not against the rules at this time. My team has never done this and I wouldn't feel comfortable doing it.


My team has done this but never with TOY (KCBS or NEBS) points in mind. Qualifying for the Jack, yes... also just trying to win contests. I guess I mention this to point out that new rules can ban some of this practice or a different approach would be to simply make the contests TOY point ineligible. I'd vote for the later.

As an example I think Myrons team should have every right to cook two contests on the same day. If those scores are TOY ineligible, fine.

Funtimebbq
11-09-2011, 07:51 PM
I think KCBS rule # 2 spells it out pretty clearly. That rule either needs to be enforced or reworded to reflect it's actual intent if the intent is other than what is stated in the rule.


Chief cooks and/or assistant cooks may only cook for their designated team at the contest they are attending.The Chief cook must be in attendance for their designated team.

It seems pretty straightforward to me. A team must have a chief cook and that chief cook must be in attendance at the contest and it must be the only contest the team is competing in on that day, or it is a violation of Rule #2.

Maybe I'm missing something here?

Hello,

I think you got everything right except the last part.

The "and/or" permits either the head cook or the assistants to cook for a team at a contest. It does not require the head cook to be there. The assistant becomes the head cook for that contest. However, at the contest they are cooking at ("attending"), whoever is on the team cannot cook for another team at that particular contest.

At least, that's my interpretation.

Benny

Jeff_in_KC
11-09-2011, 08:02 PM
Mike, while I'm not positive is states this in the rules, I gotta agree with Benny in that it SHOULD state this. If I got sick, injured, etc and could not make it to a contest, there should be no reason that Tammy and Taylor couldn't take the ball and run with it. I'd put money on her being able to knock it out of the park without me being there. Now if she sweet talked Rob Magee, Rod Gray or Woz to do it, there'd be issues to me.

Plowboy
11-09-2011, 11:26 PM
I believe that was same day. There is no problem in KCBS rules with teams cooking multiple events in the same weekend one on Sat, the other on Sun

But most people, me included at the time, think that invitationals don't count toward this rule. According to Mike Lake at the first Sam's Club event... the rule is in play for Invitationals.

Randy and I could have cooked seperately as Pork Pullin Plowboys in 2010 with the American Royal Invitational and a Mid Missouri contest if Invitationals were exempt. But Randy had to cook as Plowboys BBQ instead. He took RGC and I finished 8th in the Royal Invitational. It was a good day to be a Plowboy for sure.

Note: I also wanted to change my team name at the Sam's Club Invitational, but KCBS wouldn't allow it since that was the team name that was invited.

CBQ
11-10-2011, 09:19 AM
Question 1: If I can't make it to a contest because I have a wedding to attend or catering job or any number of reasons but the rest of the 'Team' can should we be eligible for KCBS TOY points ? \
Question 2: If there are two contests in our area one with Saturday turn ins and the other with Sunday turn ins should we be allowed to split the team and get TOY points from both contests.

I agree with most of the points Steve raises, but I don't think you can split questions 1 and 2. ZBQ has 2 pitmasters, and most of the time we cook together, but we do split the team, mainly due to schedules. Sometimes for reasons related to work, vacations, or contest locations we can't cook together. BBQ is a hobby for us, and with our "day jobs" we need the flexiblity to be able to cook apart.

It's a slippery slope to base everything on a chief cook anyway. Sometimes due to work schedules, one of us will arrive much later at a contest, especially on a Saturday turn in contest when someone has to work on Friday. They might show up when all the meats are cooked and the brisket is on the cooker. Would that be "illegal" using a "chief cook must be present" rule? It would seem to be a rule designed to punish teams that aren't full time BBQ cooks.

We did do a split weekend once, but the purpose was to help increase the chances of winning a qualifier, not for TOY points. It's currently legal, and I think it should stay that way. If you aren't a top 25 team, you aren't paying that much attention to TOY anyway, so why restrict the 4975 teams that aren't TOY contenders?

Plowboy
11-10-2011, 02:24 PM
Can the head cook show up on Friday to set up, prep, and start the cooking process and then not be there on Saturday for final cooking, turn ins, and awards?

Randy and I almost did this when I had a catering job Saturday night and couldn't stay for the whole contest.

Scottie
11-10-2011, 04:42 PM
That would not have been legal for the Sam's Series...

YankeeBBQ
11-10-2011, 05:46 PM
If you aren't a top 25 team, you aren't paying that much attention to TOY anyway, so why restrict the 4975 teams that aren't TOY contenders?

Because the rules need to be the same for everyone.

CBQ
11-11-2011, 10:54 AM
Because the rules need to be the same for everyone.

Of course they should be. A level playing field is one of the best things about KCBS.

Along the same lines, should a rule by changed to even the playing field for a small number of teams (TOY contenders) even if it impacts a broader group (teams that can't always have the same chief cook at every contest) ?

Where would you draw the line? All contests? Contests that have close turn in dates? If a chief cook falls sick before a contest, does that mean the rest of team can't complete?