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HBMTN
10-26-2011, 07:55 PM
I got a judges comment card for my chicken this past weekend. It stated that the sauce over powered my chicken. I asked my wife if she thinks the judge thinks my chicken was bad or my sauce was awesome LOL

The remaining judges did not comment and scores were much higher than one judge who I figure was the one that gave the comment.

I think it would be better constructive critisism if after the judges did the scoring and pencils hit the table if the majority of judges felt the suace was over powering then the judges as a table give a comment card. An individual judges comment card should be for things like texture of the piece they tried was tough. Last year I had a judges card state my chicken lacked flavor and I finished 3rd out of like 60 teams in chicken at that competition. I guess it just confuses me...

Boshizzle
10-26-2011, 08:02 PM
Hi Reuben,

My wife and I were table captains at that comp. It's hard to say what was going through that judge's mind at the time. I know that if that card had been written at my table or my wife's we would have asked that it be reworded to offer more detail.

Perhaps there is some spice that the judge couldn't get over. Who knows?

HBMTN
10-26-2011, 08:32 PM
Good to see ya this weekend Boshizzle. I guess my thought process is on this is yes one judge felt the sauce was over powering. Was it actually? Who knows, other than the one judges taste buds so a comment card to me on one judges taste buds is not helpful if 5 other judges likes the sauce. Now if after the pencils hit the table and the one judge who felt the sauce was overpowering the chicken brought the issue up to the rest of the table and the majority of judges felt that it was then I feel that should be when a comment card for flavor comes into consideration. I can see one judge getting a tough chicken thigh and giving a comment card for that but I just think something like flavor should be the thoughts of more than one judge. If the judge brought it up to his table and 4 judges spoke up and said they loved the sauce then I never see a comment card and am not left scratching my head LOL

Boshizzle
10-26-2011, 08:56 PM
It was good seeing you too and I love that Lang 84 you have. That thing is a BBQ cooking monster!

I hear ya, bro. I have scratched my head many times over some scores that I have seen when I am TC. Thanks for bringing this up as it is a good point. Hopefully, KCBS will be able to address it in a positive way.

Fat Freddy
10-26-2011, 09:42 PM
To me comment cards are a good idea but not being done right or consistently. Personally I would like to see comment cards with just check boxes and then if something wasnt covered by check boxes a space to right3 or 4 words what was liked or disliked.

To me this wouldnt take much time at all so more judges may fill out the cards which would only help the cooks, but then these kind of cards would cause the judges to think harder about why they judged something a certain way which would only help judging. And with check boxes there would be a tad bit more consistency which would benefit everyone.

Smokedelic
10-26-2011, 10:10 PM
I got a judges comment card for my chicken this past weekend. It stated that the sauce over powered my chicken. I asked my wife if she thinks the judge thinks my chicken was bad or my sauce was awesome LOL

The remaining judges did not comment and scores were much higher than one judge who I figure was the one that gave the comment.

I think it would be better constructive critisism if after the judges did the scoring and pencils hit the table if the majority of judges felt the suace was over powering then the judges as a table give a comment card. An individual judges comment card should be for things like texture of the piece they tried was tough. Last year I had a judges card state my chicken lacked flavor and I finished 3rd out of like 60 teams in chicken at that competition. I guess it just confuses me...Would you rather that you had one judge score you lower than the others at the table with no feedback as to why his/her scores were lower?

Rookie'48
10-26-2011, 10:59 PM
....The remaining judges did not comment and scores were much higher than one judge who I figure was the one that gave the comment...

The comment cards have a space where the scores are written in, you can match up the scores to see what judge gave the card.

I think it would be better constructive critisism if after the judges did the scoring and pencils hit the table if the majority of judges felt the suace was over powering then the judges as a table give a comment card

After "the pencils hit the table" the scores & comment cards are turned in. That way there is no discussion of the entries until all of the scores are written down. Each judge has the chance to make out a comment card if he/she wants to but it's not required.

A "group" or "table" comment card would let the one or two "Alpha" personalities at the table pretty much try to dictate what entries get a card.

roksmith
10-27-2011, 05:27 AM
Yea comment cards should be from individual judges giving some sort of constructive criticism. I thought his/her card did just that.. and it kinda went along with the past year's card. That particular judge thought the chicken itself didn't have much flavor and all they could taste was the sauce. It didn't effect your score most likely because that score got thrown out. Those particular judges might not have particularly sensitive taste buds, but apparently it was not an opinion shared by the other judges. If you are scoring well, I would not worry about it. If your scores begin to drop in the taste category, you might want to consider notching up the spices of the chicken itself. But again...for now if it seems to be the minority opinion, I wouldn't worry about it.

Lake Dogs
10-27-2011, 07:21 AM
I'm usually fairly critical of judges (being one myself), but in this case I think the feedback was perfect and spot on. You'd be surprised at how many judges will base their taste score solely on the sauce, even though they're not supposed to do that. In your case, if the sauce was overpowering (and apparently it was in this one persons view), the odds are good that this was your more seasoned barbecue judge...
I doubt that this person didnt like your sauce. I know when I've scored down for sauces overpowering more often than not it was a very good sauce, but I just couldn't taste or could only barely taste anything other than the sauce.

K-Train
10-27-2011, 08:13 AM
As a new team I would love more comment cards. That's how you learn. As a teacher I can't stand leaving a comment on every kids report card, however it is a valuable tool for the student and the parents to evaluate performance so i do it. I liked the idea of one card per table with a defined template of what is to be written. Check boxes aren't a bad idea as long as comments are provided to explain anything that was negative. Maybe just a sentence nothing more. Maybe the table captain could be the recorder and go around the table asking for comments. If the turn in was pretty good, then no need for a card. Just an idea.:-P

bover
10-27-2011, 08:16 AM
You'd be surprised at how many judges will base their taste score solely on the sauce, even though they're not supposed to do that. In your case, if the sauce was overpowering (and apparently it was in this one persons view), the odds are good that this was your more seasoned barbecue judge...

Agree completely. Yet another reason for continuing education! Gotta keep pounding it in to all of our heads that we're supposed to be looking for balance and complementary flavors.

HBMTN
10-27-2011, 09:18 AM
Would you rather that you had one judge score you lower than the others at the table with no feedback as to why his/her scores were lower?



I see your point, and for that reason I can see how the comment is just. However some additional feedback on the card like - I thought the sauce was overpowering the chicken however when brought up to the other 5 judges at the table they liked the sauce. - Could be more helpful, maybe for instance I got 8's from the other judges instead of 9's because of the sauce, or maybe i got 8's from the other judges instead of 7's because of the sauce. I just feel it would be more useful to a team to know what the table feels as a whole if someone feels a comment card shold be written. That said I guess I could also see that a judge would not bring it up for being afraid other judges would be critical of thier thoughts.

Rookie'48
10-27-2011, 12:01 PM
Hance, I'm starting to worry about you ..... you're saying things that I agree with :thumb:.

Slamdunkpro
10-27-2011, 12:09 PM
Gotta keep pounding it in to all of our heads that we're supposed to be looking for balance and complementary flavors.

No you aren't - The standard is the best representation of the product as the cook intended.







huh?:heh:

Lake Dogs
10-27-2011, 12:10 PM
Hance, I'm starting to worry about you ..... you're saying things that I agree with :thumb:.

Either I'm going more main stream, or I've been party to your corruption to "the dark side"...

:becky:

Lake Dogs
10-27-2011, 12:24 PM
Hance, I'm starting to worry about you ..... you're saying things that I agree with :thumb:.

Either I'm going more main stream, or I've been party to your corruption to "the dark side"...

:becky:

Frankbbq
10-27-2011, 10:45 PM
The table scores reflect the tables opinion. A committee isn't a good way to find out a single judges thoughts.

CBQ
10-28-2011, 08:13 AM
Personally I would like to see comment cards with just check boxes and then if something wasnt covered by check boxes a space to right3 or 4 words what was liked or disliked.

Having way too much time on my hands, I was listening to the last KCBS BOD meeting, and exactly that was discussed. I think it passed, but not sure.