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Bigmista
10-16-2011, 09:27 PM
I'd like to see more black people in Competition BBQ. Anyone have any ideas on how to make that happen? I think this group of the population is severely under represented. This question is for folks that compete and folks that don't. I really want to hear your thoughts.

Bigmista
10-16-2011, 10:06 PM
Really? No one?

Rub
10-16-2011, 10:12 PM
You can't make someone do something if they do not want to. Do you know folks who want to compete and are not? If so, why aren't they? Start at the beginning and work from there.

Fat Freddy
10-16-2011, 10:12 PM
I just started competing this year and I guess I never noticed one way or the other. I understand why you would be asking and please dont misunderstand what I am about to say but I never think of people in white or black or anything. As a matter of fact the only color I have ever worried about was on my meat I am cooking.

rookiedad
10-16-2011, 10:22 PM
hey Mista,
do you find from your experience that most black folks prepare barbeque for themselves or buy it from barbeque places?

nthole
10-16-2011, 10:31 PM
This is one helluva loaded question. I guess if I put a purely business hat on two questions come to mind; is there 'demand' to be in bbq competition in the black community, and if there is what are the barrier of entries that are preventing that demand from being fulfilled. I have to be honest, I just don't know the answer to either of those. Here in St. Louis I know there are a couple of black teams, but it's far and away majorily represented by whites. Although interesting to note the only bbq 'food truck' in St. Louis is run by a black couple.

Sorry Neil, I just don't know if anyone will have enough information to really help. The only thing I can think of is there a particular way the black cooking community communicates that you may be able to get some advertisement/word of mouth into to get the idea out there that the competition Q community is a great group of folks and that they may enjoy the competition challenge.

Leatherheadiowa
10-16-2011, 10:34 PM
Bigmista,
As a bbq competitor I would like to see more people of all colors, ages, sexes, and socioeconomic groups.
That isn't meant to be politically correct crap, but I want this hobby, sport, or whatever you want to call it to be around for many years. My son is 8, I am 34 and I want this to be something I can enjoy with my son, and something others can share with their special someone.
Not sure if you knew I was running for KCBS board, and maybe you don't care, but I know that reaching out to more people from more backgrounds will only strengthen the KCBS and will make competition very appealing to more people. I have some great ideas about doing this but have good ears and would listen to others suggestions on how to include more people.

JD McGee
10-16-2011, 10:41 PM
I got no answers for ya brother...just didn't want to leave ya hangin'! :becky: All of my black brothers and sisters are already in to comp cookin'...:thumb:

Plowboy
10-16-2011, 10:47 PM
Seems like a niche market ripe for the sponsors.

landarc
10-16-2011, 10:58 PM
I have talked to a few Neil, most of them like the way they cook, and they aren't inclined to spending the money and effort to produce food for someone else that they might not like. I think in the neighborhood I grew up in, most of the folks didn't have the money for the tools, much less the travel and meat for cooking competitions. Now, a lot has happened since I left Richmond, and there are many folks of color, not just blacks, but, all colors, that do have the wherewithal to compete, I can't comment about them.

Although, I do have a theory, it has to do with two components of the equation. One is that many of my friends families saw BBQ as a social event, or a church event, that was meant to be spent with family and friends, enjoying the compnay, not making it into a sport, or work, but rather meant to be a leisure activity.

Others that I have known that tried it didn't much care for how the BBQ was judged, they knew the product they wanted to produce and had no intention of changing it to fit other folks ideals of good BBQ. That being said, it is dangerous to take any of this as speaking for an entire race of folks.

I will say, that with a few exceptions, in the Chinese and Japanese communities, when you talk about cooking ribs for 6 hours, or brisket for 12 hours, they look at you strange. I think there are just a small handful of us who spend the time. None of my family or friends think it makes any sense what I do. In a sense, this refers to an overarching comment about our individual cultures and what we have come to expect from cooking food. I think BBQ competition has a root in certain cultural traditions and not others.

Bigmista
10-16-2011, 10:59 PM
You can't make someone do something if they do not want to. Do you know folks who want to compete and are not? If so, why aren't they? Start at the beginning and work from there.

That's what I am trying to find out. I don't know of any barriers to competing. I have always felt welcome. I just would like to encourage more black people to compete and enjoy it like I do.

hey Mista,
do you find from your experience that most black folks prepare barbeque for themselves or buy it from barbeque places?

It's funny but most of my customers are white of asian. If I had to depend on the black community, I would starve. I have no idea why that is. I know that they buy it from other BBQ places. I know they do it at home. I just want them to show what they can do.

Sylvie
10-16-2011, 11:10 PM
Seems like a niche market ripe for the sponsors.
I need to submit my resume. Lady of Q, senior black female competing solo seeking more sponsors. Experienced in cooking on WSMs utilizing automatic blower devices, varying wood chunks/bricks and select charcoal choices. I am dialed into social networking and I want to promote competition BBQ for all with a passion for low and slow or hot and fast cooking.

Plowboy
10-16-2011, 11:19 PM
I need to submit my resume. Lady of Q, senior black female competing solo seeking more sponsors. Experienced in cooking on WSMs utilizing automatic blower devices, varying wood chunks/bricks and select charcoal choices. I am dialed into social networking and I want to promote competition BBQ for all with a passion for low and slow or hot and fast cooking.

Seriously, there's a pitch there. Sponsors and media want someone who expands their markets. Black, female, successful,... seems like a possible face of BBQ to me.

Bigmista
10-16-2011, 11:22 PM
Todd's right. Sylvie you could be a marketing machine. Maybe you should run for the CBBQA BOD...

Plowboy
10-16-2011, 11:25 PM
Todd's right. Sylvie you could be a marketing machine. Maybe you should run for the CBBQA BOD...

What does that job pay?

Work up a pitch and send it out. Can't hurt.

Sylvie
10-16-2011, 11:29 PM
Todd's right. Sylvie you could be a marketing machine. Maybe you should run for the CBBQA BOD...
Yes, I'm retired and no day job, working for an organizatin requires a commitment which I 'm not at a stage to do yet. However, on the competition circuit, I'm game.

caseydog
10-16-2011, 11:47 PM
My own experience in having a family lake house in East Texas is one of driving past small country houses on Sunday after church let out, and smelling some serious BBQ being cooked -- driving by in my German luxury car on way the back from the store to the lake house in the gated community with a world class golf course.

When I look at competition BBQ on TV, it seems like all I see are teams with brand new super duty pickups towing fancy trailers full of expensive equipment, and I wonder how they can afford to do these competitions. Then it occurs to me, they have lots of money from other endeavors, and the BBQ competitions are mostly for fun -- or ego. And, since they have lots of money to compete with, they have enough money to win with. It's easy to cross home plate if you are starting on third base.

I could be all wrong, but in my 50 years of life, I find that the best way to win in anything, is to have deep pockets to start with. So, there are probably a lot of fantastic BBQ cookers, of all races, who will never show up on the competition circuit, because they can't afford to compete -- and lose.

If you make six-figures at your day job, you can afford to spend money coming in 15th place at a competition.

I think a lot of good cooks don't compete because they just plain can't afford to compete.

CD

Bigmista
10-16-2011, 11:51 PM
That is true. I wish I had the money to compete more but there are some contests that are only $100 or so to enter. And lots of people win with WSM's and UDS's.

caseydog
10-17-2011, 12:00 AM
That is true. I wish I had the money to compete more but there are some contests that are only $100 or so to enter. And lots of people win with WSM's and UDS's.

And, I bet those little contests are at least as much fun, and probably just as full of good food as the major league competitions.

They may even be more fun, because the competitors know they aren't going to take home big money.

CD

Q-Dat
10-17-2011, 12:11 AM
I haven't been to alot of competitions so far, but at the ones I have, there has always been one or two black teams. But I am in southern Louisiana where the black population is pretty strong.

Like Landarc said they are usually down to earth folks who know there Q is good because everyone they know loves to eat it, and they aren't going to compromise their methods to appease judges from a giant sanctioning body that believes in practically forcing competitors to conform to their style of Q.

I would bet if you took a look across the IBCA circuit you would see more black teams.

Bigmista
10-17-2011, 12:18 AM
I believe there are more Mexican teams than Black in IBCA.

Andrews
10-17-2011, 12:26 AM
I need to submit my resume. Lady of Q, senior black female competing solo seeking more sponsors. Experienced in cooking on WSMs utilizing automatic blower devices, varying wood chunks/bricks and select charcoal choices. I am dialed into social networking and I want to promote competition BBQ for all with a passion for low and slow or hot and fast cooking.

You forgot to mention that you are an expert at pairing great music with your BBQ'ng activities!

Sledneck
10-17-2011, 04:46 AM
The poohbah competes and he sicilian , just sayin.......

Sawdustguy
10-17-2011, 06:41 AM
I hear you Neil, I wish I had the answer. Hell I wish there were more Polocks also. As far as I know we are the only Polish BBQ team around. Maybe thats not a bad thing, I don't know.

bbqdavarrow
10-17-2011, 06:55 AM
I hear you Neil, I wish I had the answer. Hell I wish there were more Polocks also. As far as I know we are the only Polish BBQ team around. Maybe thats not a bad thing, I don't know.

I was thinking the same thing and thought of you guys.:thumb:

Pugsley
10-17-2011, 07:21 AM
My own experience in having a family lake house in East Texas is one of driving past small country houses on Sunday after church let out, and smelling some serious BBQ being cooked -- driving by in my German luxury car on way the back from the store to the lake house in the gated community with a world class golf course.

When I look at competition BBQ on TV, it seems like all I see are teams with brand new super duty pickups towing fancy trailers full of expensive equipment, and I wonder how they can afford to do these competitions. Then it occurs to me, they have lots of money from other endeavors, and the BBQ competitions are mostly for fun -- or ego. And, since they have lots of money to compete with, they have enough money to win with. It's easy to cross home plate if you are starting on third base.

I could be all wrong, but in my 50 years of life, I find that the best way to win in anything, is to have deep pockets to start with. So, there are probably a lot of fantastic BBQ cookers, of all races, who will never show up on the competition circuit, because they can't afford to compete -- and lose.

If you make six-figures at your day job, you can afford to spend money coming in 15th place at a competition.

I think a lot of good cooks don't compete because they just plain can't afford to compete.

CD
absolutley correct Dog IMHO

Wrench_H
10-17-2011, 07:36 AM
No real answers, but I was thinking the same thing a couple of weeks ago. We were in Rocky Mount, NC competing, and I noticed that the crowd at the festival was probably 70-75% black, but I only saw one black team competing. The people's choice was setup where everyone came around and tried your pork at your station. There was certainly plenty of expertise from the folks there when they tried our pork. We cook on two traegers and a char-griller, so we look like a small time shop. I probably had 25 people tell me that they cook on that same char-griller at home. If I do this one next year, I'll have to throw out the "why don't you consider competing" question and see what type of answers I get.

Lake Dogs
10-17-2011, 07:36 AM
We have a few teams with black people on the team around here that compete a little, but not regularly. Money is the only thing keeping me and my team from competing more regularly; I imagine it's the same with most of these folks too...

What I dont see are black judges. Not any.

RangerJ
10-17-2011, 07:41 AM
I believe there are more Mexican teams than Black in IBCA.

In Houston..by far!

That being said, I see more black teams or black team members here in IBCA than all my KCBS cooks combined.

In Texas most events are like $100 - $150.00 to enter. Most have water, very few have electric. Paybacks are either a percentage of entry or guaranteed money.

Also, between organizations here ( IBCA, Gulf Coast,Lone Star), there are probably 25 events each weekend so that keeps the price low and gives folks options that are closer to the community.

Seems most of the events are tied to VFW, American Legion, Elks lodge or a county fair. All annual and all events that folks that I talk to cook annually.

So, affordability, proximity and frequency draws folks from the surrounding communities regardless of ethnicity that like to cook.

But to your point, while I'm seeing more black teams and team members, I've never run into the same one twice on the IBCA circuit.

ThomEmery
10-17-2011, 08:04 AM
Contests near urban settings would be helpful
I understand we may have two new ones in the Los Angeles area next year

gmholler
10-17-2011, 08:17 AM
Around here in Louisiana, promoters will usually advertise their contest where they're familiar with - and that often inadvertently means to one racial group. Hubby and I have asked folks that come around on Saturday, asking about the contest, why they didn't enter, and the answer is usually that they would have if they'd heard about it - they just saw a sign that said "BBQ contest" or came to the festival and found the BBQ contest!

Lynn H.

indianagriller
10-17-2011, 08:21 AM
The problem we have had around here in the local rib burns is that they dont want to change their technique to conform to the rules of competition ie: no parboiling, at the meetings it always gets brought up that boiling and grilling is how they were taught to do ribs and the only way they will do ribs. So the local competitions change to allow this technique. I dont care how you cook your Q, the best tasting food will win but in order to compete in KCBS you gotta play by the rules...

ModelMaker
10-17-2011, 08:31 AM
I have had contact with three local black owned "BBQ" outfits here locally and in talking to them about this & that have boiled it down to this.
These local cooks have no intention of spending money in joining a competition and all its other expenses. They simple "grill" their product for sale in the parking lot, remote auction site, special event etc.
I spent alot of time with one guy who had a fantastic set up for a competition outfit asking him how he cooked, what he used for rubs etc. and all he wanted to do was fill the bin with charcoal, shoot it with lighter fluid and get it up to 400* and cook his rib tips, sausages, turkey legs and sell them in the auto store parking lot.
One of the black cooks at Waterloo is only there to vend and rake in some bucks but they require vending teams to enter the comp and you can always tell his boxes when they hit the table.
I think they see BBQ as a money making endeavor and I (we) see it as a way to gather with like minded masses and cook for the fun and sport.
It all works out thou, everbody seems happy with what they are doing and that should be the point.
Ed

Lake Dogs
10-17-2011, 09:25 AM
I see a LOT of what ModelMaker has said above. At last weekends comp and next weekends comp the competitions are part of larger festivals. Like last weekend, there were probably 6 or 8 groups of folks grilling on LARGE smoker/grills that would be comp capable, if they'd wanted to. These groups are largely black. They know about the competition because they've vended here for many years, and while I haven't asked them specifically, it's obvious that they're not interested in the competition portion, but rather spend their time/effort on vending... There's nothing wrong with that, but it doesnt bring them into the fold that is competition bbq (as Neil asked).

Lake Dogs
10-17-2011, 09:48 AM
We see Buster Davis around now & again:

http://www.smokinajs.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=50&Itemid=61

He's an excellent cook and competitor.

timzcardz
10-17-2011, 10:37 AM
A couple of possible observations:

1. Could it be that aside from BigMista Black people have to much dignity and selfrespect to spend their weekends hanging around with fat white guys?

2. Maybe they're just smarter. How much sense does it make to be out cooking for the entire weekend when it is too wet, too windy, too hot or too cold?

Looking at it from the outside, from a simplistic perspective, we must look like idiots!



I know that I never had any intention of competing, and only started because at the time, my then 13YO wanted us to do it. And since that moment, I have spent too many wind driven rainy nights wondering what the heck am I doing this for. The answer is always because it is some very wonderful close time spent with family, without a lot of the distractions that go on in everyday life. Being surrounded by friends, old, new, and soon to be, makes it even more worthwhile.

I don't know how you can adequately convey that though without actually experiencing it.

Maybe you just have to keep inviting new people to experience it with you. Some may catch the bug.

landarc
10-17-2011, 10:39 AM
I was at a competition where I walked up to a guy that looked like his dog had died, and his wife looked like she had killed it. I asked what was going on and he said he had gotten his scores on ribs and it was all 5's and 6's. I was stunned at that alone. but, hey, maybe it was bad. He asked me to taste them. They were about the best purest example of ribs I have ever eaten, texture and flavor were spot on; and that was after judging eating cold ribs from a pan. They were porky, peppery, tender, I mean, a revelation and he got hammered. I told him I gladly would have paid $20 for a plate of those ribs.

His wife, he said, was angry as they had put over $400 into the competition for DAL. His solution was that he wasn't gonna compete anymore. $400 was too much to pay for DAL. I asked him if he had tasted other folks BBQ, and offered to help him reach out, he said he hadn't. But everyone told him he needed to add more sweet and heat. He decided he would just keep cooking for his family.

This guys brisket and pulled pork, maybe top 10 in what I have ever had, his ribs, maybe top 3, he cooked better than I can. He felt the flavors the judges wanted just weren't his.

G$
10-17-2011, 10:50 AM
Neil, I have to admit I have had the same question for quite a few years, but I figured my universe of experience was too narrow to even know if the question was valid. You cook mostly CA and some AZ. I cook mostly AZ and some CA, so we have a pretty similar sample (although your is broader and more frequent).

Locally, I know of a few black barbecuers that do NOT compete at all, but do cook socially and for family. Plus, the best (by far IMO) local Q joint is run by a black family and I think he/they have no interest in entering competitions.

I have not read all the responses yet, but would be curious what sort of participation you would be looking for (in %s of competitors I supopose)

atvalaska
10-17-2011, 11:05 AM
what u do is ban other folks of any color! then whats left will take over...PC gone mad.....

goodsmokebbq
10-17-2011, 12:09 PM
...some of my best friends are black

(That one if for you JB :-P)

Bigmista
10-17-2011, 12:59 PM
Neil, I have to admit I have had the same question for quite a few years, but I figured my universe of experience was too narrow to even know if the question was valid. You cook mostly CA and some AZ. I cook mostly AZ and some CA, so we have a pretty similar sample (although your is broader and more frequent).

Locally, I know of a few black barbecuers that do NOT compete at all, but do cook socially and for family. Plus, the best (by far IMO) local Q joint is run by a black family and I think he/they have no interest in entering competitions.

I have not read all the responses yet, but would be curious what sort of participation you would be looking for (in %s of competitors I supopose)

I don't know that there is a specific percentage but I would like to see more than there is currently. LakeDogs pulled out 1. Out of all the teams in Florida.

I think reaching out to get them to judge is a cheaper and more accessible route to get involved. Maybe more judging classes w/ some of them being in Urban areas could be the ticket. How much do judging classes run per person?

bignburlyman
10-17-2011, 01:39 PM
I don't know that there is a specific percentage but I would like to see more than there is currently. LakeDogs pulled out 1. Out of all the teams in Florida.

I think reaching out to get them to judge is a cheaper and more accessible route to get involved. Maybe more judging classes w/ some of them being in Urban areas could be the ticket. How much do judging classes run per person?

This was a class from the Great American BBQ in Overland Park KS

Check One:
KCBS member price: $65 ________________
KCBS non-member price: $95 ______________
*with the nonmember price – you receive 1 year KCBS membership

This seems a little high to me, I think the Kansas Winter Q in Feb 2011 was $65 or $70 which included the KCBS membership fee.

yelonutz
10-17-2011, 02:08 PM
No charge for IBCA contests but cooks always complain about new or inexperienced judges (KCBS and IBCA).

NUTZ

JiveTurkey
10-17-2011, 02:35 PM
BBQ comps are a lot like camping and I bet if you go camping on any given weekend you won't find many black families either. It's probably more of a culture thing than anything else.

Second to that is money. It's not cheap to compete and since minorities have taken the biggest hit in this busted economy there are probably a lot of people not being represented right now.

Bigdog
10-17-2011, 02:44 PM
I was at a competition where I walked up to a guy that looked like his dog had died, and his wife looked like she had killed it. I asked what was going on and he said he had gotten his scores on ribs and it was all 5's and 6's. I was stunned at that alone. but, hey, maybe it was bad. He asked me to taste them. They were about the best purest example of ribs I have ever eaten, texture and flavor were spot on; and that was after judging eating cold ribs from a pan. They were porky, peppery, tender, I mean, a revelation and he got hammered. I told him I gladly would have paid $20 for a plate of those ribs.

His wife, he said, was angry as they had put over $400 into the competition for DAL. His solution was that he wasn't gonna compete anymore. $400 was too much to pay for DAL. I asked him if he had tasted other folks BBQ, and offered to help him reach out, he said he hadn't. But everyone told him he needed to add more sweet and heat. He decided he would just keep cooking for his family.

This guys brisket and pulled pork, maybe top 10 in what I have ever had, his ribs, maybe top 3, he cooked better than I can. He felt the flavors the judges wanted just weren't his.

And kinda on the same note, I learned to eat BBQ from all the Mom and Pop black BBQ joints here in Wichita and let me tell you, their stuff is far better IMHO than most of the stuff that gets turned in to a typical Midwest KCBS BBQ contest. It is different, it is spicy, greasy, salty, peppery and delicious. In the words of my friend BigMista, "they are savory." Not the sweet stuff you do at most contests. They are making good money selling it, working hard and successful. So why would they want to waste their time and money and compete? They are good and their cusuomers already know it.

And my theory on the backyard BBQers is that they are laid back, and only want to cook what they want to cook and when they want to cook it. Why the heck to they want to go to a contest when they have to do it a certain way and turn it in on such a tight schedule? BBQ is sole food for them to be enjoyed and shared with family and friends in a relaxed environment.

My .02 MMV:thumb:

huminie
10-17-2011, 02:45 PM
I don't really know the answer to this, but I have to wonder if it has something to do with BBQ being a very personal, traditional and family heritage type of cooking for many black people. When you grew up on a certain style of food and learned to cook it from your parents who learned from your grandparents who learned from your great grandparents etc etc, and your family loves to eat your food...why do you need to pay to have some strangers criticize it?

I have seen several black teams at contests, some very successful caterers who placed poorly. If BBQ is deeply engrained in your heritage, it must hurt like hell to cook such wonderful BBQ and have it ripped by the judges.

Most of us who have had some success know that you don't go out and cook the BBQ you and your family/friends like, you cook what the judges are looking for. It may not be the best BBQ, but it is what the judges are expecting. How do you change your grandpa's recipe and compromise something so personal to you just to try and please some strangers? We all know the most satisfying "win" is when you have fed a group of hungry friends and family and everyone gushes over how great it is. Why trade that in for paying to be in a contest and not doing well?

Again, I don't know if this is the case, but I could see it playing a big part in it.

And all that said, I think we can all do a better job of encouraging folks of all colors and cultural backgrounds to join our ranks. Why not take a newbie under your wing and show them everything you do? They might realize that what we do is not so hard after all and may give it a shot themselves. You can also go out of your way to seek out a first time team at the contests you go to and ask if they have any questions or want any advice. Many will pick your brain on things like how to time their cooking to make their turn ins. It is a great opportunity to encourage them and help make their first experience a lot of fun. They may still come in at the bottom, but your willingness to help them may make the difference between them having a lot of fun in the process or giving up and never coming back.

Just some things to think about.

Greendriver
10-17-2011, 04:48 PM
I have personally spent a good amt of time with two guys I know and tried my dame dest to convince them to cook our local KCBS contest and neither one of them had any interest at all in doing so. One guy a is customer and I have talked to him the most and he caters some ribs and catfish, the other guy married a gal I went to school with and has ran a BBQ restaurant for about 30+ yrs and has two going now. They both just kinda laughed at the idea but I was serious about convincing them to give it a shot. I felt the the customer might have been afraid the cost of doing it would be too great and the Restaurant guy, I just felt he might not be willing to do it in the town his business was in because he wouldn't want bad carma on his business in case he didn't do well. I don't know either to be true, just a guess.

Matt_A
10-17-2011, 05:11 PM
Neil, perhaps you might need to start a children's program at a community center. Focus on the core knowledge and skills the kid's will need to be good at BBQ cooking. Once they're at a point that they have a basic understanding of what they're doing, introduce them to competition by having a Kids Q type event at the community center or in a city park.

Matt_A
10-17-2011, 05:33 PM
Maybe more judging classes w/ some of them being in Urban areas could be the ticket. How much do judging classes run per person?
Judging classes start out at a base rate from KCBS. I don't remember for certain but I think it's $50 /person. The contest organizer that hosts the class usually upcharges $20 to $40 so they can make some money from the class, sometimes that money goes to paying the venue fees where the class is held. $50 or more can be a tall hurdle for some people, but you won't walk away from the judging class hungry! I paid $70 for my class, non KCBS students paid $90 and got a KCBS membership with it.

deguerre
10-17-2011, 06:28 PM
My personal opinion is that the flavor profiles for KCBS and probably other orginazitions has gone so far from what the original intent of what "Good BBQ Is" that it no longer makes sense to compete. Somebody making GREAT Q' just wont place well.

chad
10-17-2011, 06:46 PM
Neil, I've wondered that too and talked with a few solo and black teams over the years and there is no solid answer.
Around here there are quit a few really good black owned BBQ joints and none of them compete. They might vend a festival but won't do a comp.
I don't think it's purely economic but maybe a pride thing. It takes a lot of humble pie to show up at a comp - those of us that have done it have had our heads handed to us more than once.

bigsapper
10-17-2011, 06:57 PM
This guy has IMHO the best BBQ in DFW...
http://fcg-bbq.blogspot.com/2009/08/meshacks-bar-b-que-shack.html

I work a few minutes from his joint. I'll have to ask him next time I'm by there about competition bbq.

Pickin' Porkers
10-17-2011, 07:03 PM
I never worry about such a thing. HOWEVER, let's include all other races in the world...where are the Mexicans, Indians, Asians (other than the one people love to pick on), Mulatto's....Geesh...let's not forget the Russians....Middle East Indians, the list can go on. Let's include the older farts like me....the teens....handicapped....bottom line is..why does race or a group of people always have to be an issue at some point?

BUT, since we're talking black....in one contest we were cooking in....a group of black guys set up behind us and constructed a block pit the way BBQ SHOULD be prepared and a burn barrel. After watching these guys work their butts off I decreed they would have the best Q in the 70 team event. I ate my share before turn ins and swore it beat mine. Unfortunately as judging has it....we won pork and they came in the middle of the pack...what a shame. I wonder if there was some discrimination happening there.....(I heard thru the grapevine that was their feeling). After a while, you get sick of playing the cards.....or even hearing about the cards....

HoDeDo
10-17-2011, 07:05 PM
Neil and I fooled all kinds of folks in to thinking I was his older ( and shorter, and fatter) brother. Wait til they find out I'm white!!!

I think getting more of any ethnic group involved would mean being able to make it relevent to that person, and thier circles. If there are not events at venues that cater to other ethnic backgrounds, and charities, and communities.... I think you have a tough time getting folks to want to spend money to do it.... I think if you get a real introduction into those other communities, you get a better shot at bringing in all the ethnic groups. Cali seems to have the most diverse BBQ scene, Black, Asian, Mexican, etc. IS that based on how CBBQA markets to folks? or how other BBQ assoc. market out there, or what drives the diversity?

Someone mentioned folks using the disposable income to compete... and I would say that is true with some teams... I would say that some of us just make a choice to not own a boat, lake house, a bunch of fishin gear, or hunting equip.... etc... or pay for co-ed softball league, or a country club membership, etc... Lots of people without 6 figure incomes do all the above.... in our case, we have chosen to invest our monies we might put towards recreation into BBQ. We have grown our supply of gear over the years, and now cook progressively more than we did in the beginning... I cook 20 ish weekends a year. I do it with my own money, and we give up other things to do it.... and it is a part of my family, and our lives... the people, the places, the activities... if I couldnt afford to cook, I would still find some way to be active - because for us it is about the community. So Neil... to come back to your question.... find a way to market the things that make it relevant in all communities and it will grow.

You met my friend Allen I believe... he isnt really interested in doing the competing, but he loves the environment, and people. He came and hung out with us all weekend at the royal, and hung out with the Belly Bros too, just sittin around the fire. BUT, I can see him getting sucked into the competiton too... just a matter of time. So maybe that is part of it too... it is a gradual process to go from outside, to spectator, to in the mix... to wanting to put the apron on yourself.... I grew up around the comps and parties and amazing folk, so it was a no brainer that I was going to have something to do with competition BBQ. Probably just have to find a way to break in and get some mindshare. What made you get interested in the comps? outside of just becoming a better cook and loving BBQ... did this board drive you to some of the decisions? or what were the things that tipped you down the path you have taken.

bookie
10-17-2011, 07:07 PM
When I look at competition BBQ on TV, it seems like all I see are teams with brand new super duty pickups towing fancy trailers full of expensive equipment, and I wonder how they can afford to do these competitions. Then it occurs to me, they have lots of money from other endeavors, and the BBQ competitions are mostly for fun -- or ego. And, since they have lots of money to compete with, they have enough money to win with. It's easy to cross home plate if you are starting on third base.

I could be all wrong, but in my 50 years of life, I find that the best way to win in anything, is to have deep pockets to start with. So, there are probably a lot of fantastic BBQ cookers, of all races, who will never show up on the competition circuit, because they can't afford to compete -- and lose.

If you make six-figures at your day job, you can afford to spend money coming in 15th place at a competition.

I think a lot of good cooks don't compete because they just plain can't afford to compete.

CD
I was considering trying the competition side, but the minimum costs added way up.
I registered for a backyard contest and when I arrived I saw the equipment the other amateurs had I just turned around and went home.

bam
10-17-2011, 07:23 PM
I agree :clap2

BBQ comps are a lot like camping and I bet if you go camping on any given weekend you won't find many black families either. It's probably more of a culture thing than anything else.


Neil it's the camping thing. :thumb: A one day event you would see more teams.

Pigs on Fire
10-17-2011, 07:52 PM
I'd like to see more black people in Competition BBQ. Anyone have any ideas on how to make that happen? I think this group of the population is severely under represented. This question is for folks that compete and folks that don't. I really want to hear your thoughts.


It's like anything else. It's a culture thing. There's some black folks in Comp BBQ.

You notice how there's no fat white guys with thick southern accents at these friggin' "Occupy _____" events? It's because we don't want to sit around in the rain, growing a beard with our black, horn-rimmed glasses and nasty skull cap on, living in a tent unbathed for a week.

We want to eat some good food, sit on the couch, drink beer and watch Glenn Beck.

Capozzoli
10-17-2011, 08:08 PM
When I had my first taste of real BBQ it was in a historically "Black Town" Lawnside NJ, there is a strip of BBQ joints there and they are all fricken awesome. With big giant trailer smokers outside. They are all so nice too. It is like a little slice of southern hospitality up here in NJ. My mouth waters just thinking about it. Only places I would pay for Q I can tell you.

No idea why none of them compete, at least not that I know of, and I dont compete either and have no desire.

...but I do wear black horned rim glasses.

bam
10-17-2011, 09:13 PM
When I had my first taste of real BBQ it was in a historically "Black Town" Lawnside NJ, there is a strip of BBQ joints there and they are all fricken awesome. With big giant trailer smokers outside. They are all so nice too. It is like a little slice of southern hospitality up here in NJ. My mouth waters just thinking about it. Only places I would pay for Q I can tell you.

No idea why none of them compete, at least not that I know of, and I dont compete either and have no desire.

...but I do wear black horned rim glasses.

My uncle Louis was pit man in lawnside. :thumb:

speedrcer1
10-17-2011, 09:28 PM
Neil, I honestly did not notice.
If someone is into Que enough to compete, I want to say hello and shake their hand.
Regardless of who or what they are.
I've met people of means, people who struggle to put together the fees, and people who do it because they think it will get them somewhere. I respect them all.

Just sayin.

CivilWarBBQ
10-17-2011, 09:44 PM
"Only Nixon could go to China."

I go out of my way to help and encourage every black cook I see at contests.
Yes, I'm the stereotypical fat, white, middle class, middle aged man that makes up the majority of the population on KCBS cook teams in the Southeast. Yes, my online handle and 1864 slouch hat I wear at competitions may make some black folks think my other outfit might be a sheet with a pointed hood.

If figure any people of color brave enough to try their hand at what must surely look like a WASP Good Old Boys club deserve to be reached out to even more than I usually do for new cooks.

Hopefully black teams that are embraced by other cooks that on the surface at least appear to fit the redneck racist stereotype will see that all shades of people are welcome on the BBQ circuit and any cooks who actually do promote bigotry will realize that such attitudes will not be tolerated any more.

Beyond that, I guess it's up to well-known cooks like Neil who get good media exposure to convince more black folks give competition BBQ a try.

Bigmista
10-17-2011, 11:13 PM
I don't ask this because I think the teams or organizations shun anyone. I have always been welcomed with open arms. The bbq community is awesome.

The reason I ask about black people is because they were integral to the creation of bbq in this country. I don't ask about golf or tennis or NASCAR because most black folks just aren't exposed to those things when they are growing up. But you'd be hard pressed to find a black person that didn't have an Uncle Jimmy or Big Mama that barbecued every holiday.

jbcain
10-17-2011, 11:59 PM
I'm not personally sure the question holds in value or validity. Those that want to and are able to, do compete. For others, it's purely their choice to not to for whatever the reason.
I frequent a Q here in vegas that is owned and ran by two black men. One is a baker, the other is an all around cook. The meat that man prepares is AMAZING and done so on some shoddy 50gallon barrels cut in half. I happened to have my rig loaded up when I stopped by one after noon and stood outside with him for 30mins shootin the gums with him about Q and his heritage regarding it. Never once did he express his interest in competition or my hand in it.
I guess some folk just don't care.

Bigmista
10-18-2011, 08:59 AM
@jbcain I think the question hold a lot of validity. How can you choose not to compete if you don't know competitions exist? How many contests are marketed to areas with a large black population? Promoters market to areas that they are familiar with. I'm not mad at them. I would probably do the same thing.

I'm trying to make people aware of an area that is underserved. Believe it or not, there are some black people that make enough money to compete if they so desired. They just haven't been informed. When you were shootin the gums with the black guy in Vegas, did you mention the contest? Did you invite him to visit? Can't have an interest in something you don't know about.

big brother smoke
10-18-2011, 09:27 AM
I would have never gotten involved with or exposed to Comps for that matter if it had not been for this place or Mista daring me to put my money where my mouth was so to speak.

jbcain
10-18-2011, 10:49 AM
@jbcain I think the question hold a lot of validity. How can you choose not to compete if you don't know competitions exist? How many contests are marketed to areas with a large black population? Promoters market to areas that they are familiar with. I'm not mad at them. I would probably do the same thing.

I'm trying to make people aware of an area that is underserved. Believe it or not, there are some black people that make enough money to compete if they so desired. They just haven't been informed. When you were shootin the gums with the black guy in Vegas, did you mention the contest? Did you invite him to visit? Can't have an interest in something you don't know about.

True on many points, including the probability of just not knowing. But we did talk about my smoker and kcbs and what not. still didn't seem much interested.

AZScott
10-18-2011, 11:17 AM
I think you nailed it with your comment about golf or tennis Neil. They haven't been exposed to competition BBQ so they don't compete. I never would have been without my boss watching BBQ Pitmasters and then walking into my office one day telling me he signed us up for a competition. I didn't even know their were local competitions before he told me I was doing it with him. Heck, I didn't even know BBQ Pitmasters was on TV.

King
10-18-2011, 11:41 AM
I believe there are more Mexican teams than Black in IBCA.

Guilty!

For real though, I wondered the same thing and I think a few folks on here are right to say it may be a cultural thing. However, I don't it's a money thing, there are more middle class African Americans than there ever was.

I tell my black colleagues about my competition endeavors and bring them some of my BBQ after a comp and they go on about how good it is, but we talk little about competing and more about cooking.

I had one guy tell me that he thought the smoke came from the water you spray on the coals?!?!? Obviously my friends can't cook.

My wife's friends have been begging me to cook at their office (mostly black)....it's just funny for anyone to beg a Mexican American to cook some BBQ...lol.

Divemaster
10-18-2011, 11:45 AM
For some reason I think you hit the nail on the head in a number of your statements.

I don't ask this because I think the teams or organizations shun anyone. I have always been welcomed with open arms. The bbq community is awesome.
I couldn't agree more! I have never seen any one shunned at a competition. White, blank, orange, or green. (OK, maybe the green guy but he was just strange.)

The reason I ask about black people is because they were integral to the creation of bbq in this country. I don't ask about golf or tennis or NASCAR because most black folks just aren't exposed to those things when they are growing up. But you'd be hard pressed to find a black person that didn't have an Uncle Jimmy or Big Mama that barbecued every holiday.
This may be your most telling statement. To me, it seems the people that are at comps are the ones that didn't grow up with or have the 'Heritage' of BBQ. We (yes, I include myself), grew up with thinking that BBQ was something you either put on a bun (read hamburger) or got at a restaurant. It wasn't something that you could easily do at home.

For those of us that are now competing, I think it may be the new fascination with the product. Proving to our selves that we to can create this mystical food product. By the time we actually start doing well enough in competitions, we have grown in to the community that we would miss desperately if we left it.

@jbcain I think the question hold a lot of validity. How can you choose not to compete if you don't know competitions exist? How many contests are marketed to areas with a large black population? Promoters market to areas that they are familiar with. I'm not mad at them. I would probably do the same thing.

I'm trying to make people aware of an area that is underserved. Believe it or not, there are some black people that make enough money to compete if they so desired. They just haven't been informed. When you were shootin the gums with the black guy in Vegas, did you mention the contest? Did you invite him to visit? Can't have an interest in something you don't know about.

I really think that promotion is the key and with that, he right kind of promotion. One of the comments that I heard when 'BBQ Pitmasters' first came out was how this would show people that this is something that could be done by the 'Average Joe'. Unfortunately, all the first season showed was that even an accomplished chef couldn't get it right and I could see the potential rookie say, why should I even try?

Last year we did a competition in Milwaukee in while not a ‘blighted’ area, not one of the best either. The organizer had us set up on a side street that had very little foot traffic where most if not all of the interaction was between teams. To get to the awards, we got to walk down the main festival and found that they were having a rib cook with what seemed to me to be 15 to 20 teams. They had ton’s of traffic and yet because they were right in the middle of their competition, no time to talk to anyone. So anyone that was interested were unable to get information on how to join in.

I put it to the organizers to reach out to the community to get new people no matter what their race (yes, even the green ones) the information and give them a comfort level to join us.

Scottie
10-18-2011, 12:00 PM
I never notice color. Around our parts we have folks of all colors. Granted it is a major minority.

From what some of my black friends have told me. Their 'traditional bbq' is more grilling, than low and slow. They do meats that do not require overnight cooking. Not to say that some dont, but they were more inclined to do chicken, ribs and rib tips. Along with hot dogs, sausage and hamburgers. Not sure if that has any input, because i have tried to recruit them into the bbq world.

We do have numerous CBJ classes in the Chicago area. Do they specifically go advertise down in the inner city? No. I dont think they advertise anywhere but kcbs.us?

Now this is for my multiple friends from Chi-town. Steph could probably answer more on that. But these are what i got out of it.

Bigfoot21075
10-18-2011, 12:11 PM
Most of us who have had some success know that you don't go out and cook the BBQ you and your family/friends like, you cook what the judges are looking for. It may not be the best BBQ, but it is what the judges are expecting. How do you change your grandpa's recipe and compromise something so personal to you just to try and please some strangers?

THIS is exactly the problem with Chili Cook-offs. Now when I do any food comp I cook to please me and the public and to have fun. I refuse to intentionally cook food I do not like. Maybe some of the other folks for who BBQ is a way of life refuse for the same reason.

It really should be best food wins.

Sylvie
10-18-2011, 12:21 PM
I would have never gotten involved with or exposed to Comps for that matter if it had not been for this place or Mista daring me to put my money where my mouth was so to speak.
Same here. Neil recruited me to compete back in 2006. That being said, I'm always mouthing off to folks I meet about the great folks in competition BBQ. I have had many offers to come out and eat but none have developed the passion to compete. My work is not yet done.

Sylvie

Big Poppa
10-18-2011, 12:38 PM
Its neil's fault? Dont forget me in this talk.

Ok Im white but I cook in the Ghetto in so cal.

Neil whats really funny is that we live in a state that as of today all teachers from k-12 must teach as part of history transgender and all that stuff. FOurth graders get the history of GLBT...I am ofpen to all but how about teaching everyone about bbq? Black and white.

Big Stogie
10-18-2011, 01:02 PM
I think there are several reason why black teams do not compete. One reason is that most people who BBQ dont even know about the BBQ comps that go on in their area. If you are not checking KCBS or one of the other BBQ associations you dont hear about the comps. Also, as others have said, most like cooking for their family and friend and are not really interested in cooking in comps. ANother reason could be money, It does take some dough to compete in the BBQ comps. And some may think that it is not worth the risk to put out a couple hundred dollars for a minimal return on their investment. I think the interest is there with BBQ Pitmaters playing serveral times this year. I always have freinds come out to my comps and they always enjoy themselves, but they have no interest in competing.

I think there are several reasons why more blacks dont compete, some not even being related to BBQ. Maybe one day someone could put their finger on it:confused:

Lake Dogs
10-18-2011, 01:18 PM
> they were integral to the creation of bbq in this country.

UNDERSTATEMENT. I choose and use spices of a creole origin out of a respect for bbq origins AND I use this as part of my schtick in MBN presentations...

Neil, I did a rough count. In GBA it's roughly 10% of the teams are black. There are also a few teams that are integrated.

big brother smoke
10-18-2011, 03:55 PM
I never notice color. Around our parts we have folks of all colors. Granted it is a major minority.

From what some of my black friends have told me. Their 'traditional bbq' is more grilling, than low and slow. They do meats that do not require overnight cooking. Not to say that some dont, but they were more inclined to do chicken, ribs and rib tips. Along with hot dogs, sausage and hamburgers. Not sure if that has any input, because i have tried to recruit them into the bbq world.

We do have numerous CBJ classes in the Chicago area. Do they specifically go advertise down in the inner city? No. I dont think they advertise anywhere but kcbs.us?

Now this is for my multiple friends from Chi-town. Steph could probably answer more on that. But these are what i got out of it.


Scottie hit hit the nail with the hammer. Growing up in Chicago I never knew about overnight cooks for brisky and butts we only knew sausages, ribs, rib tips, chicken and the occasional steak.

Butts and brisket eluded me until I joined here back in 06.

Pitmaster T
10-18-2011, 07:25 PM
Allow me to give this thread a little "spice."

You know... Richard Pryor's humorist depiction of what would happen if the Amytiville House spoke to a Black Family comes to mind as relatable to the utter financial futility and overall irrelevance of modern competition in the first place. The sport does not lend itself to practicality... and all that implies. Remember the claim in Love, Peace and BBQ where everytime a certain competitor was asked how he counts his trophies he goes, "one thousand, two thousand, that one cost me 3 thousand... " The winner was not counting winnings either.

I also have first hand knowledge of what it was like for Black competitors to break into the competition culture in the 1980s and 1990's. It was damned uncomfortable being around that many rednecks. DAMNED uncomfortable, dang right vicious in the case of a few Tennessee competitions I witnessed. WE are not talking about the blind box system either.

THANKFULLY, Modern competitions (LOL at myself as I am thinking my experiences 20-30 years ago were so aged) are much more cosmopolitan due to the huge influx of the more educated members entering the sport.

But alas, one of the lasting influences of racism is running even of no one is chasing you.

My friend, Dr. Cornell West, one said, and this is actually related to the whole thing here, there are two hours in the week that are still nationally segregated, one is the dining hour and the other is worshiping hour. Perhaps BBQ competitions can be a way to break that ice?

Brauma
10-18-2011, 09:07 PM
I don't relate to people in groups; I can relate to people as individuals. Matter of fact I think treating and legislating to people in groups is detrimental to our society. If an individual wants to compete and is obstructed from doing so I want to know about it. Otherwise it's just individual preference.

One of my dad's former bosses was a great Libertarian and he had a saying that I'll never forget: "People are gonna do what people are gonna do". Simple and profound.

Pitmaster T
10-18-2011, 10:13 PM
I don't relate to people in groups; Yes you do... you are relating to a group right now. I can relate to people as individuals. Matter of fact I think treating and legislating to people in groups is detrimental to our society. If an individual wants to compete and is obstructed from doing so I want to know about it. Otherwise it's just individual preference.

One of my dad's former bosses was a great Libertarian and he had a saying that I'll never forget: "People are gonna do what people are gonna do". Simple and profound.

Wow, this profound sentiment should have been used when they were shooting water cannons at certain groups after they were excluded from things as a group... even though they belong to another group... Americans.

Hilarious. Blanket concepts like this is why the "libertarian" views never became "great." Frankly, and the present company is excepted from this, it is often perpetrated from someone who is part of a "group" that has rarely been marginalized or excluded from anything based on what "group" they were in.

So what happens when an individual is obstructed from doing something because they are part of a "group?" So not letting an individual into a college or school because they are part of a "group" that is not allowed in Montgomery, Alabama? that was detrimental? So legislation that helped "groups" like World War II veterans go to school on the GI bill should that not have been legislated? Legislation that made it legal for a certain "group" to vote or own a home within the perimeters of another "group" ... that was detrimental...? I suppose so, especially when one "group" had members of another "group" they did not want living next to them move in because the legislation saw fit to stop some unfair practice. Being able to chose what "group" lives next to you by lawful means... that is as American as Jim Crow? Free enterprise based on the ability to pay... cool, just as long as you are a member of the right "group." Which is approved by the "group" itself.

Groups? Women did not pressure for the vote as individuals, and their right to vote was given to a "group." As consumers, we are a group as well, and I doubt anyone would object to the legislation that protects you as a consumer. Our mothers, fathers, those who are senior citizens, if you think their medicare or social security (both legislated to a "group") detrimental, please by all means, go rip it from their wrinkly hands.

Hey, I talk to people as individuals too and often speak to black "groups" and I have always wanted to know the same thing as Neil, especially after I eat at their table, or they eat at mine. Why don't you compete? The answer they give has a lot to do with what I said. There is both a monetary and practical component to why as well as a whole lot of racially centered tensional histories depending on where you came from.

Bigmista
10-19-2011, 12:31 AM
Donnie, being the strong black woman that he is, went way farther back than I ever intended. The door is always open for anyone to compete. I am just looking for ways for some of us to be walmart greeters. Let's stand at the door and invite others in.

jbcain
10-19-2011, 12:53 AM
my co-smoker is black, I'll be sure to tell him that his people are requested. Surely he will laugh

Kenny Rogers
10-19-2011, 01:37 AM
Wow, once again, an amazing thread. I stumbled on this thread a couple of hours ago, and have been reading since!
My 2c...

#1) I agree with the economics thing. I think that prevents A LOT of people from all races from competing.
Solution: find more support money. i.e. sponsorships, to lower the cost of the entry fees and/or pay out more spots.

#2)Make judging more subjective. I've never been a judge, or taken a judging class, but I do know that judges tend to have a different pallete than most. At comps, we don't cook to what WE like, we cook to what the judges expect. I understand that there's a reason for this... consistency. At least that's what it's supposed to be, I imagine. So that all teams are trying to cook for a "certain" taste profile.

#3) Advertise. (this is going to take some help from #1) Don't just stick an ad in a paper, or a radio spot, or whatever, this is going to take some precision marketing. You can target black people or whomever your intended recipents are. Go to where they hang out. Where they gather and relax. Where they recreate. Preferrably, where they go to buy bbq related items.
Set up a few pits, perhaps for a demo, or a small local, LAID BACK comp, and invite the public. Have people from your BOD on hand with their own booth set up explaining how things work. Demystify it for them. People that are driving by seeing smoke, smelling food, at a local retail outlet will always stop to check it out!
Do an outreach, perhaps. We have a local police team that does outreaches using a cop car that was converted into a smoker, that goes around to different areas, serving free bbq, and doing a community outreach. This could work for bbq too.
When people see that you are passionate about what you do, and you can encourage their passion, they'll persue it.

I saw bbq pitmasters, season one and (unfortunately) season two. I thought "wow, this looks like a lot of fun, and a great bunch of guys!". I was invited to participate at a local bbq dealer for a demo. No prizes, no real incentives, just q'in for the masses. It was the first time I'd ever cooked for the general public and loved getting others input! The vendor paid for all the meat & other expenses. I met my Q'in partner (Green Drake) there at the demo, and he asked me if I'd be interested in helping him at a comp, I thought "Hell yeah"!!
Up to that point I had wanted to try a comp, but I didn't know the first thing about where to find out about it, or how to get started in it. I didn't have anyone to compete with either, and of course, that's always extremely helpful too. My first comp I placed #2 in brisket, only 1 point out of first place!! I was on cloud NINE!

So... having a mentor definitely helps. He showed me how to do just about everything, and is always giving me some great input into my cooking! We don't always place in the top 10, but the top 30% (overall) on average. We' not hardcore, like many with tow behind cookers, or RV's, or even a trailer. I have a rustly old charbroil offset silver smoker, and a bge. But I win mostly with my offset. People like to give me crap about my setup, but anyone that knows bbq, knows you can cook over an open pit and win, it's not about your cooker.

Be an advocate for the people you want to reach out to, and mentor someone!
I believe there's a spot on this very forum, for doing just that!

Have a great night everyone, and as usual, thanks for all of your great input! I couldn't have asked for a better brethren!

CajunSmoker
10-19-2011, 07:24 AM
I bet if you promoted a contest tied in and advertised to the tailgating crowd at a predomently black college football game you could get a bunch of black teams involved. I'm not sure what black colleges you have around your area but I know from experience that the tailgating gets dead serious at Grambling games!!!!

QN
10-19-2011, 07:54 AM
I bet if you promoted a contest tied in and advertised to the tailgating crowd at a predomently black college football game you could get a bunch of black teams involved. I'm not sure what black colleges you have around your area but I know from experience that the tailgating gets dead serious at Grambling games!!!!

Take a look at this thread; http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=117178

Unfortunately, it has now been postponed until 2012.

Magic City Classic BBQ Cookoff, Birmingham, AL, Oct. 28-29
This is a first year contest put on by the AAMU and ASU alumni associations as a scholarship fundraiser before the Magic City Classic football game - it will be held in Legion field in Birmingham. $175 for all 4 meats - $5,000 total prizes.

http://www.labbq.org/flyers/Birmingh...birmingham.pdf (http://www.labbq.org/flyers/Birmingham2011/birmingham.pdf) for more info.

smokeyw
10-19-2011, 10:53 AM
I have to agree. The bottom line is, WE ARE ALL JUST BARBECUE TEAMS. Why does any of the other matter?

I never worry about such a thing. HOWEVER, let's include all other races in the world...where are the Mexicans, Indians, Asians (other than the one people love to pick on), Mulatto's....Geesh...let's not forget the Russians....Middle East Indians, the list can go on. Let's include the older farts like me....the teens....handicapped....bottom line is..why does race or a group of people always have to be an issue at some point?

BUT, since we're talking black....in one contest we were cooking in....a group of black guys set up behind us and constructed a block pit the way BBQ SHOULD be prepared and a burn barrel. After watching these guys work their butts off I decreed they would have the best Q in the 70 team event. I ate my share before turn ins and swore it beat mine. Unfortunately as judging has it....we won pork and they came in the middle of the pack...what a shame. I wonder if there was some discrimination happening there.....(I heard thru the grapevine that was their feeling). After a while, you get sick of playing the cards.....or even hearing about the cards....

Still Smokin
10-19-2011, 10:58 AM
Lots of good comments and insight here. As an FYI, i just judged a whole hog competition in Kingstree SC (as did another Bretheren, Sammy Shuford) that had 72 teams and there was at least 30 black teams, if not more. a lot of the cookers only had pits made of sheet metal sides resting against rebar sticking up from the ground and a sheet metal top (soem even had cardboard tops) and they used the burn barrel method and shoveled hot coals all night. This was sanctioned by the SCBA.

As for me, I can certainly understand the economics of competing, I did 6 comps this year and won good money in 5 of them, but still struggle to get entry fees and all the other expenses to compete.

bbq.tom
10-19-2011, 12:18 PM
What I dont see are black judges. Not any.

There are VERY FEW black judges that I see in KCBS - maybe one or two per hundred, but in MBN there are about 10-12 that I see at every contest (usually the same ones with a couple different in the mix sometimes). Why the difference between the two organizations???

deepsouth
10-19-2011, 01:22 PM
There are VERY FEW black judges that I see in KCBS - maybe one or two per hundred, but in MBN there are about 10-12 that I see at every contest (usually the same ones with a couple different in the mix sometimes). Why the difference between the two organizations???


i realize that organizations are regional, but if you look at the racial demographics of each city, kansas city is 85% white and memphis is 61% black.

Dr_KY
10-19-2011, 01:33 PM
Seriously, there's a pitch there. Sponsors and media want someone who expands their markets. Black, female, successful,... seems like a possible face of BBQ to me.

:becky: :becky: :becky: :becky: :becky: :becky: :becky: :becky: :becky: :becky:

Dr_KY
10-19-2011, 01:54 PM
This forum and all the brothers and sisters here motivated me to take my BBQ to another level be it with positive encouragement, friendship,sponsorship or gifts to a homesick expats family.

Admittedly I'm in bit of a situation such as Todd referred to as I'm not only an American but I'm also in a country where BBQ wasn't big and competition BBQ even smaller when I got here. Things being as they may I have carved out a spot in a quickly growing trend and refuse to not be involved in it's growth.

I am just a man that loves Q and all things food related including the quality family time it's all based around. This Q beast has taken me around the world over the last four summers hence why I haven't been here much the last few months.

MY view is competition BBQ as other has said needs to spread the word as more of a family adventure weekend more than a ballZ-to-the-wall cookout to grab a more diverse field.

Doc

grillzilla10
10-19-2011, 02:09 PM
The problem is first the entry fees ,that is a lot of money to pay to come d.a.l. Then there is the travel ,gas is going back up and my truck can tear a hundred dollar bill up. This are two of many issues of why I dont compete.

Bigmista
10-19-2011, 02:37 PM
I bet if you promoted a contest tied in and advertised to the tailgating crowd at a predomently black college football game you could get a bunch of black teams involved. I'm not sure what black colleges you have around your area but I know from experience that the tailgating gets dead serious at Grambling games!!!!

This is Southern California. There are no black colleges and very little tailgating.

timzcardz
10-19-2011, 02:45 PM
BigMista,


Since you started this,

1) How come you didn't compete, until your first competition?

and

2) What was it that got you to compete?

Bigmista
10-19-2011, 03:48 PM
I didn't know about competitions until I came here in 2004.

I went to visit some brethren at a comp in San Diego and loved what was going on so I put together a team (Four Q) and we did our first comp in 2006.

So I credit the Brethren and I have been sending people here ever since. I mention the site on TV and in almost every newspaper article or blog post I am mentioned in.

yelonutz
10-19-2011, 07:51 PM
This is Southern California. There are no black colleges and very little tailgating.

Thats the problem Neil, your in the wrong end of the state. You folks sent all your football teams away. Come on up North and check out the tailgating at a Raiders game or Cal Berkley. The parking lots on game day look like a Jimmy Buffet concert.
P.S. Stanford U in Palo Alto (Tiger Woods Alma Matte) was rated #7 in a survey of 50 best colleges for black students (Google).

NUTZ

jeffjenkins1
10-19-2011, 08:48 PM
I have my 02¢ and I don't have enough time to write it down here. However, I think in it's simplest form, black people do not believe you should have to spend money to make money.

We are told to watch out for scams our entire childhood and not to trust anyone. Now your telling me that if I take my ribs, brisket or whatever BBQ I have been cooking since I was 10 and can sell it for top dollar at all the local vending spots, cook it to conform to your standard, make sure it is consistant, then pay you 400 bucks, I can be ahead how?

I have a lot more thoughts on this but I will spare you, LOL.

Jeff

Brauma
10-19-2011, 08:52 PM
Wow, this profound sentiment should have been used when they were shooting water cannons at certain groups after they were excluded from things as a group... even though they belong to another group... Americans.

Hilarious. Blanket concepts like this is why the "libertarian" views never became "great." Frankly, and the present company is excepted from this, it is often perpetrated from someone who is part of a "group" that has rarely been marginalized or excluded from anything based on what "group" they were in.

So what happens when an individual is obstructed from doing something because they are part of a "group?" So not letting an individual into a college or school because they are part of a "group" that is not allowed in Montgomery, Alabama? that was detrimental? So legislation that helped "groups" like World War II veterans go to school on the GI bill should that not have been legislated? Legislation that made it legal for a certain "group" to vote or own a home within the perimeters of another "group" ... that was detrimental...? I suppose so, especially when one "group" had members of another "group" they did not want living next to them move in because the legislation saw fit to stop some unfair practice. Being able to chose what "group" lives next to you by lawful means... that is as American as Jim Crow? Free enterprise based on the ability to pay... cool, just as long as you are a member of the right "group." Which is approved by the "group" itself.

Groups? Women did not pressure for the vote as individuals, and their right to vote was given to a "group." As consumers, we are a group as well, and I doubt anyone would object to the legislation that protects you as a consumer. Our mothers, fathers, those who are senior citizens, if you think their medicare or social security (both legislated to a "group") detrimental, please by all means, go rip it from their wrinkly hands.

Hey, I talk to people as individuals too and often speak to black "groups" and I have always wanted to know the same thing as Neil, especially after I eat at their table, or they eat at mine. Why don't you compete? The answer they give has a lot to do with what I said. There is both a monetary and practical component to why as well as a whole lot of racially centered tensional histories depending on where you came from.

A group of people in an online BBQ club vs. an entire race of people. Yep, that's apples to apples.

And, from wondering why more black people don't compete in more BBQ competitions to water canons and Selma, AL... C'mon man. Really. Did we need to go there? Geez.

Libertarian ideals are great. Our Founding Fathers were mostly Libertarian. The two party system we have now has made a fine mess of this country. I think it's time to go back to basics.

deepsouth
10-19-2011, 09:34 PM
The founding fathers weren't libertarians. In fact, they were opposed to a party system.

CivilWarBBQ
10-20-2011, 01:37 AM
Jeff may be on to something there.

Certainly competition barbecue is not a money-making endeavor any but a very few teams. Rather, for most it is an expensive competitive hobby, similar to golf or racing. From what I can tell, participation in those things is pretty low by black folks too.

Don't know what that means, but I bet you could write a grant proposal on it and get a bunch of money to do a study for the Feds!

deepsouth
10-20-2011, 07:11 AM
Jeff may be on to something there.

Certainly competition barbecue is not a money-making endeavor any but a very few teams. Rather, for most it is an expensive competitive hobby, similar to golf or racing. From what I can tell, participation in those things is pretty low by black folks too.

Don't know what that means, but I bet you could write a grant proposal on it and get a bunch of money to do a study for the Feds!



http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/859/2011wealthgaps24.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/828/2011wealthgaps24.png/)

5-0 BBQ
10-20-2011, 09:41 AM
I guess I have been away for a few days.

I have a good friend that I just cooked a comp with and we plan on doing a few more next year. We figure it is good to join forces and cut the cost. He is black I am white. We joked and said we were going to name the team Dark Meat & White Meat.

I guess I enjoy the BBQ community and the people I meet so I have never thought about color. One thing Jonathan and I do talk about is how to get more people into competition BBQ. He is a contest organizer and I own a BBQ Supply company. We have some things in the works for next year to help promote competition BBQ and get new teams to area comps.

Phubar
10-20-2011, 10:36 AM
Man...I've been Q-ing for about 2+ years now but I'm still the only black dude around here in The Netherlands on the Dutch forum,during Brethren Bashes and meetings.
I don't wear a name tag during Bashes...:-P:wink:

Bigmista
10-20-2011, 11:01 AM
Neither do I Phubar. Neither do I.

CivilWarBBQ
10-20-2011, 11:39 AM
http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/859/2011wealthgaps24.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/828/2011wealthgaps24.png/)

Guess somebody already did it.

While that's some pretty scary numbers, I have to believe it's heavily skewed by the ginormous wealth of the RWP (rich white people) who control most everything in this country. Most of my fellow crackers here in my world don't have anything close to a hundred grand in net worth and live check to check.

Maybe that's why I don't care what anybody looks like. Folks is folks, and all of us poor folks need to stick together!

Dr_KY
10-20-2011, 03:02 PM
Man...I've been Q-ing for about 2+ years now but I'm still the only black dude around here in The Netherlands on the Dutch forum,during Brethren Bashes and meetings.
I don't wear a name tag during Bashes...:-P:wink:
I thought only I did that. lol:thumb:

deepsouth
10-20-2011, 03:36 PM
Guess somebody already did it.

While that's some pretty scary numbers, I have to believe it's heavily skewed by the ginormous wealth of the RWP (rich white people) who control most everything in this country. Most of my fellow crackers here in my world don't have anything close to a hundred grand in net worth and live check to check.

Maybe that's why I don't care what anybody looks like. Folks is folks, and all of us poor folks need to stick together!

think only about your average net (of an entire population in this country) worth being less than a good used car...... the more important thing is what you eluded to in regard to the RWP (which are a very very small group of people). if what you imply, the skewing of the chart by the RWP, is true (and i think that's a larger than normal factor in the disparity) that is a good illustration of why people are protesting all over. this also gives some credence to the fact that racism is still the 800 lb. gorilla in the room, still getting ignored by a portion of society. i'm in no way implying that this exists in the BBQ community and certainly not on this forum.

Smokin' Aces
10-20-2011, 03:45 PM
I hear you Neil, I wish I had the answer. Hell I wish there were more Polocks also. As far as I know we are the only Polish BBQ team around. Maybe thats not a bad thing, I don't know.


you got a team from long island hahaha right around the corner

Camille Eonich
10-20-2011, 04:24 PM
I read this thread earlier today then I happened to pick up one of my favorite magazines and found an article in it about competing in the Memphis in May competition. I found it highly relevant to some of the comments made here as well as to some of my own thoughts since I started reading about barbecue competitions. I was going to scan it and post it but I lucked up and found it online.

Here's a small excerpt:
Ready, Set, Strip
It all starts with a screaming buzz saw and the smell of burning pig bone. A hog is splayed out and gutted, with a half dozen hands reaching inside its carcass. Pat Martin, a Nashville pit master, revs the blade and digs into the backbone. Pig shrapnel flies around the tent.
When the job is done, the truly heartbreaking part begins, trimming out pounds of glorious, expensive, and carefully cultivated fat. Our team is consulting with a former grand champion, someone who is gracefully helping us understand the intractable customs of Memphis in May. He points at the thick layers of white.
The chefs look at each other, then at the pig. Reluctantly, they start stripping. Every so often, they’ll make eye contact with one another and shake their heads. Someone mutters. Brock stands to the left of the pig, and Link on the right, each cutting back ribs to expose more shoulder meat. A pile of fat forms on the table.
“Too much,” says Ryan Prewitt, the chef de cuisine at Herbsaint in New Orleans.
Stephen Stryjewski, the chef at Cochon who won his Beard award just four days ago, asks the expert once more if he’s sure.
“They don’t want marbling?” he asks.
“You don’t find that in other hogs,” the former grand champion says. “Technically, they don’t want to see that.”
“That’s so 180 degrees to what I do every day,” Stryjewski says.
Link, the mind behind Cochon and Herbsaint, watches in silence. This is what he’s thinking: Arrrgh! There are all these Beard winners with their hands in the hog, but something is being lost in translation. A chef’s job is to cook food that stays true to the essence of the ingredients. The job of a Memphis in May contestant is to deliver what the judges want, and, more important, to stay away from things they don’t. Here, as best as I can tell, are some of the things the judges don’t like:
1. Fat
2. Spic
3. Pork that tastes like pork, as opposed to pork that taste like it got pistol-whipped by MSG and sugar
4. Puppies

And the link http://gardenandgun.com/article/memphis-in-may?page=0%2C1

rookiedad
10-20-2011, 04:39 PM
how about practicality? not only black or white, but anyones siduation dictates how practicle they must be. i know alot of white people who think i'm flingin' flangin' crazy for spending $120.00 on meat to cook for someone else just so they can be hypercritical about it! (i don't even tell them how much i spent on cookers, tents, tables and stuff).i cook 1 brisket, 2 pork butts, 3 or 4 racks of ribs and 12 chicken thighs. thats something like two weeks worth of dinners for a family of four! thats like 1/25th of a years worth of food. do that three or four times and it becomes really impracticle for most, of any color. each time i compete i am thankful that i have the rare opportunity to partake in this activity that i call a sport. i'm not bashing competitive barbeque, but there is sacrafice involved that many would never want to make even if they could.

Guamaque
10-20-2011, 05:04 PM
BBQ comradery and friendships as well as everything else in modern life should be colorblind. I can't answer the specific question, but like most stated, competition BBQ is a real deal, and most people , black, white, asian, hispanic just are not going to pursue the competitive level for the obvious reasons mentioned already. That being said, one of my all time favorite BBQ in the world is Arthur Bryant's in Kansas City. They must have skipped the competition all together and went purely 100% sucessful commercial. Still voted number one in the area. :thumb:

Pitmaster T
10-20-2011, 06:38 PM
Donnie, being the strong black woman that he is, went way farther back than I ever intended. The door is always open for anyone to compete. I am just looking for ways for some of us to be walmart greeters. Let's stand at the door and invite others in.

Neil says it best when referring to himself as ... "an atypical white male."

Pitmaster T
10-20-2011, 06:44 PM
I have my 02¢ and I don't have enough time to write it down here. However, I think in it's simplest form, black people do not believe you should have to spend money to make money.

We are told to watch out for scams our entire childhood and not to trust anyone. Now your telling me that if I take my ribs, brisket or whatever BBQ I have been cooking since I was 10 and can sell it for top dollar at all the local vending spots, cook it to conform to your standard, make sure it is consistant, then pay you 400 bucks, I can be ahead how?

I have a lot more thoughts on this but I will spare you, LOL.

Jeff


BUT extremely and eloquently written and ties in with my practicality theory. People ask me all the time why I don't compete any more... LOL I spend 40 minutes explaining and it comes down to this one thing... if I am gonna spend $ and time on making bbq... I intend to make money from it... not pay ridiculous amounts of money to have people eat a cubic inch of it. LOL

Pitmaster T
10-20-2011, 07:00 PM
"Our Founding Fathers were mostly Libertarian. "

Wow... how do you explain the ... wow.... to someone who thinks that.... wow... LOL. I guess when you allow other people to do your research for you instead of ... wow.... where do I start. Wow?

"I think it's time to go back to basics."

Yep, spoken like a .. well, what you indeed must be. Yep, for you... I bet those basic days were the "good ole days."

As far as taking us there... you took us there. I may have answered the question but I have to say, it was you that took us from how you like to judge people, how you want to know if people are excluded based on ... well, being part of as group... and then offered up your opinion of how apparently you think that it is wrong for a group to be judged based on their being part of a group while any legislation that is intended to fix a problem such as this with a group is detrimental. Apparently our constitution is to be amended for each and every individual person, thereby being millions of pages long, and of course, would have to be contested every time an individual is discriminated against due to the group they belong to. Wow! Are you opposed to such group legislation that governs "people" like G.E., Enron, Exxon, BP, Ford, Bank of America, or Insurance companies?

rookiedad
10-20-2011, 08:14 PM
BUT extremely and eloquently written and ties in with my practicality theory. People ask me all the time why I don't compete any more... LOL I spend 40 minutes explaining and it comes down to this one thing... if I am gonna spend $ and time on making bbq... I intend to make money from it... not pay ridiculous amounts of money to have people eat a cubic inch of it. LOL

i wonder what the percentage of bbq restaurant owners who actually compete is. i don't think it is very high. when i first began here i was under the impression that only people with professional ties to the buisness would compete. i had to be convinced that the main reason for competition is actually "FOR FUN"! someone even said in reference to me something like "i guess for some people it always has to be about money", but from my pespective at the time, before i actually gave it a try, i couldn't figure out why anyone would want to go through such effort and expence without trying to perpetuate a buisness. i think most people of all colors probably feel this way.

Brauma
10-21-2011, 06:54 AM
The Constitution outlines and limits federal power. If you want to vote for politicians who want to shift more power to the fed and away from the people, feel free. But you took a quantum leap from my comments and dove into your opinion on how you think I judge people. Don't do that. I made it clear that I don't judge people in groups; I judge people individually.

As far as Big Mista's initial post, I feel it would be more constructive to do a survey or conduct interviews with people from the group in question and ask why it is they don't compete. To wonder why more black people don't do this, or why Chinese people do that, or why white people do the other, I feel segregates us. I don't care what color you are or where you're from, if you love BBQ, we can sit down beside a pit, enjoy some good Q and have a beverage and talk about all the worlds problems. We can agree or disagree politically; I dont care.

deepsouth
10-21-2011, 07:21 AM
i love how many small government type people are cool with small government unless we are talking about women's or minorities rights.

Bigmista
10-21-2011, 09:35 AM
As far as Big Mista's initial post, I feel it would be more constructive to do a survey or conduct interviews with people from the group in question and ask why it is they don't compete. To wonder why more black people don't do this, or why Chinese people do that, or why white people do the other, I feel segregates us. I don't care what color you are or where you're from, if you love BBQ, we can sit down beside a pit, enjoy some good Q and have a beverage and talk about all the worlds problems. We can agree or disagree politically; I dont care.

If only one group of people are sitting around the pit, aren't we already segregated? I would love it if people of all races shared in this passion of ours. I asked about black people because they basically created this style of cooking and are poorly represented in competition bbq. Just trying to find ways to invite more in.

Bigmista
10-21-2011, 09:36 AM
And please, if you want to talk about goverment stuff, take it to news and politics. Let's stay on topic here.

deepsouth
10-21-2011, 10:12 AM
And please, if you want to talk about goverment stuff, take it to news and politics. Let's stay on topic here.

i think socioeconomics is part of the problem, which is at least partly a problem that pertains to governing, but i'll stay out of this thread from here on out.

Pitmaster T
10-21-2011, 01:55 PM
i love how many small government type people are cool with small government unless we are talking about women's or minorities rights.


Its just that Jim Crow in their lineage. Of course I speak of these types generally and am not talking of anyone on the forum.

Pitmaster T
10-21-2011, 02:07 PM
And please, if you want to talk about goverment stuff, take it to news and politics. Let's stay on topic here.


I agree, whats wrong with these people. Let me honor you Neil by quoting a peer of mine, even though there are many of us credentialed historians that agree - as we actually know our history - so I see no reason to speak on this myself:

"Actually, the founders wrote the constitution in reaction against the practice of hyper-limited government embodied in the Articles of Confederation, its immediate predecessor, which fetishised the principle of “states’ rights” that had prevailed as the governing principle during the revolutionary war years and immediately after.

George Washington, as commander-in-chief of the Continental Army, chafed under the meanness of the states in funding his army, and was invariably left wanting by them and by a Continental Congress which depended on their largesse for its own budget. He came to admire Britain’s capacity to finance its war effort, particularly its system of centralised public borrowing, and wished similarly to empower the newly created United States.

The US constitution may have balanced the claims of the states with the powers of a federal government, but the founders wrote it with the view of enhancing the power of a central governing authority, better to overcome the financial handicap of limited government imposed by the Articles of Confederation. In this they remain visionaries and men of the 21st century. [Federal Limters,] on the other hand, are really the heirs of the Articles of Confederation and delude themselves in proclaiming otherwise.

Albion M. Urdank,
Dept of History,
UCLA,
Los Angeles, CA, US

callahan4life
10-21-2011, 03:51 PM
I think the answer is with the young people. The Current Competitors need to reach out and Mentor young people of all races. I believe if you bring them in, on your teams and teach them all aspects of it that here will be some who will catch the "fire" (pun intended) and "smoke" (I can't help myself, LOL) with it.

silverfinger
10-21-2011, 04:27 PM
I would be interested in comp but I have never been to one. Guess Im still wet behind the ears. Just started cooking ribs this summer and now my wife invites someone over almost every week for me to cook for them, lol. Anyone here in this area need help at one of there comps? I would love to tag along, help out and learn.

Sylvie
10-21-2011, 08:57 PM
I would be interested in comp but I have never been to one. Guess Im still wet behind the ears. Just started cooking ribs this summer and now my wife invites someone over almost every week for me to cook for them, lol. Anyone here in this area need help at one of there comps? I would love to tag along, help out and learn.
There is a Backyard event hosted by Southern California Meatup (http://www.socalmeatup.com/index-1.html)coming up November 19th. This is a very good way to get your feet wet. Even if you don't plan to compete in it, you will surely get some comp experience by visiting. The only other sanctioned events in Southern Calfornia aren't until December.

To quote from another forum one of our great reps on the West Coast;
Teams, this is the first time a backyard contest in California will be licensed by KCBS. This means you will have KCBS materials and scoring from the scoring computer including printouts. You will have access to KCBS representatives (Me & Kathleen) to discuss anything you want and ask all the questions you want. In addition, you will get immediate verbal feedback from the judges and traditional KCBS scoring. You will never get this kind of opportunity for verbal feedback at a regular contest. Most (if not all) the judges will be KCBS certified judges. This is as close as you can get to a sanctioned contest without jeopardizing your rookie status. Don't let this opportunity pass you by.
Kelly

bbqbull
10-21-2011, 09:06 PM
I have been watching this for a few days now.
Not to sound negative but the black folks in our city set up bbq sales at street corners. I promise you a lot of them do not follow health dept rules. They seem to be satisified turning out awesome Q. I honestly believe they are comfy making very good money doing what they do. I wished they would attend bbq contests here in Michigan... I believe we have 9 sanctioned contest here now. But why in hell would they leave their money making corners to gamble on a contest.
I would cherish them to come and cook at our Eagle Practice Cook, but heck that has a small entry fee. I can understand that they are money ahead selling their bbq at their preferred location.


Let me please say this, my pedigree is immense. German, english, irish, british and souther roots. Opps forgot to mention I am fat as well. Being that I don't give a damn what your skin color is. If you are bbq person you are always welcome in my camp whether to cook or just hang as long as you wish.
My eyes are color blind.

twinsfan
10-21-2011, 09:22 PM
To go off bull, at my first competition there were a couple African American guys selling ribs to people walking by across from me.. they got a corner spot on the street and did a good business. Their ribs honestly.. looked horrific, but hey, maybe they tasted alright. All I know is it wasn't Health Code (not a big deal with me).

Did kinda worry me when they started flipping out their pocket knives and pretend slashing the air. But hey, we were near Camden. Whadya expect from the country's worst city?

Bigdog
10-22-2011, 10:38 AM
I have been watching this for a few days now.
Not to sound negative but the black folks in our city set up bbq sales at street corners. I promise you a lot of them do not follow health dept rules. They seem to be satisified turning out awesome Q. I honestly believe they are comfy making very good money doing what they do. I wished they would attend bbq contests here in Michigan... I believe we have 9 sanctioned contest here now. But why in hell would they leave their money making corners to gamble on a contest.
I would cherish them to come and cook at our Eagle Practice Cook, but heck that has a small entry fee. I can understand that they are money ahead selling their bbq at their preferred location.


Let me please say this, my pedigree is immense. German, english, irish, british and souther roots. Opps forgot to mention I am fat as well. Being that I don't give a damn what your skin color is. If you are bbq person you are always welcome in my camp whether to cook or just hang as long as you wish.
My eyes are color blind.

Same here my friend. Sure enjoyed hanging out with you and the guys at the Brethren booth again this year. :cool::cool:

Matt_A
10-22-2011, 11:12 PM
Guess somebody already did it.

While that's some pretty scary numbers, I have to believe it's heavily skewed by the ginormous wealth of the RWP (rich white people) who control most everything in this country. Most of my fellow crackers here in my world don't have anything close to a hundred grand in net worth and live check to check.

Maybe that's why I don't care what anybody looks like. Folks is folks, and all of us poor folks need to stick together!
I can tell you that MY white-butt salary is nowhere near the MEDIAN in that graphic..... and I have a pretty damned good job. :tsk:

G$
10-22-2011, 11:19 PM
But why in hell would they leave their money making corners to gamble on a contest.
.

Then why does anyone ever do anything that costs money with no chance at making a buck? I am beginning to get tired of the "because they can't make money doing it" response.

I compete (sometimes). I also golf, go to the movies, coach athletics, go campig, etc. I aint making money on those things either.

Bentley
10-23-2011, 01:30 PM
...but there are some contests that are only $100 or so to enter. And lots of people win with WSM's and UDS's.


Where? In California? Not that I am aware of. I could not tell you of a contest in CA in the last 3 years that was under $200.

I would compete a lot more by myself if I could find a $100 contest.

ThomEmery
10-23-2011, 01:49 PM
Hesperia was

Bentley
10-23-2011, 02:12 PM
Hesperia was


Which one? It was under $100?

Pitmaster T
10-23-2011, 02:19 PM
Then why does anyone ever do anything that costs money with no chance at making a buck? I am beginning to get tired of the "because they can't make money doing it" response.

I compete (sometimes). I also golf, go to the movies, coach athletics, go campig, etc. I aint making money on those things either.


This comment is dismissing of the obvious. I always get so tickled at statements like these... right up there with a mega rich radio talk show host -- the time he stated he had some procedure done and he didn't understand why people were griping about healthcare and the cost of insurance. He allude to the fact that he had no insurance himself and he was treated just fine. Sure, when you are worth half a billion. LOL

The things you mentioned above, heck, I DON'T EVEN HAVE THE spare cash to enjoy anymore in this economy. I cannot even afford to buy gas to go to a flea market to NOT buy things.

Now, no, I am not saying I should be entitled to it... just that in order to compete seriously (where you travel) you need expendable cash. And once again, making an assumption that people have expendable cash THEN decide from there that they are going to gamble... well that's not realistic.


It makes perfect sense to you and even if times were tough and I was in your position, I could always tighten the belt and make choices. Like I will pay less in greens fees, going to movies and camping trips in lieu of attending a tournament or two.

Now under my condition what DO I have to gamble with? As a teacher this year I am lucky to have a job BUT lost $2500 in pay this year, my health insurance has gone up 9 percent, dental 7 percent, I have already dropped my wife from the insurance (so i would not be paying over $800 a month in HC alone) and my deductible went from 500 per family member to 750 PER PERSON.

Guess what... the "gambling" choice I have to make is to drop everyone off healthcare (which means bye bye to my meds that keep me from croaking) in order to make ends meet. We have no car payments, no credit card payments - no "credit payments" at all. Just rent and utilities.

So I think you can see, there is NO way I would gamble to compete. These are the practical choices people, hard working people (I teach the Autistic) make everyday.

In fact, to go out golfing, see a movie, go camping... makes PERFECT sense... much more so than going to a competition where you MIGHT break even.

jestridge
10-23-2011, 04:21 PM
I have been watching this thread and what I came up with those competition are boreing like watching paint dry. Why spend money doing something that you can do at home. Then again I don't spend money on golfing, movies or hunting/fishing

blues_n_cues
10-23-2011, 05:36 PM
they pulled my post & sent me a message.. noone got- '[selling kosher pork in kentucky"

well if ya know the mennonites & want work done on a sunday... point was you can offend anybody- thats all it was............

rookiedad
10-23-2011, 07:40 PM
i think what we have all found out in this thread is that bbq competitions are an expensive way of having fun. when i first met Willie B he told me fun is the only reason to enter a competition. the representation of competitors in competition bbq are those who are willing to make that expenditure for the fun it provides.

G$
10-23-2011, 08:10 PM
It makes perfect sense to you and even if times were tough and I was in your position, I could always tighten the belt and make choices. Like I will pay less in greens fees, going to movies and camping trips in lieu of attending a tournament or two.

.

Just shaking my head here, Donnie.

While I just "dismiss the obvious", I am glad you got it all figured out. And me figured out. FWIW, I haven't golfed this year, and we did one comp this season. I've spent my time and money on other endeavors recently, for various reasons. But when i DO compete, I know it will cost me a crap load of money that I may struggle to fund, and I also know there is a social payout on the other side. Just like there is a cost of going to the the movies, the library, the soup kitchen to volunteer, or the YMCA to referee basketball games, even if the cost is opportunity cost.

My point is, (as we agree) there is naturally a hard cost to BBQ competitions, and there is (in my opinion but I don't really thing it is debatable) real social benefits. If the desire is to get more black people involved in competing, I sure as heck would focus on making sure they knew about those benefits.

I stand by my opinion: "Why would I ever do X when I can make money doing Y instead" can be an awfully short sighted viewpoint, and one that I think is sometimes used to dismiss the notion out of hand.

But what do I know?

Pitmaster T
10-23-2011, 08:26 PM
Just shaking my head here, Donnie.

But what do I know?

That all the things you mentioned above were choices... you could choose your preferred activity because you can. When you have fewer and fewer choices, you chose things like buying asthma meds for your baby at full price instead of ... well, just about anything you just mentioned, including eating.

ZILLA
10-23-2011, 08:32 PM
It's 100% cultural in my opinion. It seems to me that eating traditions in the black culture are about family, church and community. I don't think that it ever occurred to most folks to make contest out of such a personal experience. Add to that the fact that the black community is at the lower end of the economic ladder, especially in the south, and that comp BBQ is a rather expensive hobby, and a "white thing" and I think you have most of the answer as to why they are under represented.

There are several black teams and multiracial teams that I see on a regular basis in the S. Texas and Houston circuit. I'd like to see more too though!

Start an all black BBQ club and recruit cookers, give classes, and promote it. That probably the best way to make it happen.

G$
10-23-2011, 08:36 PM
That all the things you mentioned above were choices... you could choose your preferred activity because you can. When you have fewer and fewer choices, you chose things like buying asthma meds for your baby at full price instead of ... well, just about anything you just mentioned, including eating.

Donnie. Be careful about treating all people in a group the same way based on their inclusion in that group.

EDITED to add: it is clear to me that I am answering a different question, and replying to a different topic than you are.

Guamaque
10-24-2011, 03:03 AM
they pulled my post & sent me a message.. noone got- '[selling kosher pork in kentucky"

well if ya know the mennonites & want work done on a sunday... point was you can offend anybody- thats all it was............

Blues, don't feel so special, they pulled my post too . LOL.. :tape: I was just making an honest opinion, alongside everyone elses. But hey.. What can you say. :tape:

Boshizzle
10-24-2011, 07:44 AM
That's a heck of a good question, Neil. It's another one of those questions that I would like to have the money and time to study for my PhD dissertation that I will never be able to complete.

I judge a comp every year that is organized by an African American in a predominately African American town. Most of the competitors are caucasian and in the last couple of years attendance has been going down. I have no idea why. I can get you in touch with the organizer if you would like to discuss this with him. Being a comp organizer might give him some deeper insight into this subject.

smokeyw
10-24-2011, 08:52 AM
When we all see competition teams as merely, fellow competitors instead of black, white , or whatever else, we will have come a long way toward ending racism.

rookiedad
10-24-2011, 09:05 AM
If the desire is to get more black people involved in competing, I sure as heck would focus on making sure they knew about those benefits.

don't take this the wrong way, and if i need to be enlightened to anything please do, but why is this even a desire? i think anyone who is involved in competition bbq of any color has already taken the natural progression through their own interests to find it on their own and as we have established anyone of any color with a smoker, a cooler of meat and a $250.00 entry fee are more than welcome by all who are involved. personally, i could give a rats @$$ weather the person next to me at a competition is of my ethnic background or any other. for the short time we are there we are all united in BBQ!

G$
10-24-2011, 10:43 AM
don't take this the wrong way, and if i need to be enlightened to anything please do, but why is this even a desire? i think anyone who is involved in competition bbq of any color has already taken the natural progression through their own interests to find it on their own and as we have established anyone of any color with a smoker, a cooler of meat and a $250.00 entry fee are more than welcome by all who are involved. personally, i could give a rats @$$ weather the person next to me at a competition is of my ethnic background or any other. for the short time we are there we are all united in BBQ!

I don't disagree with anything you just said.

"anyone who is involved in competition bbq of any color has already taken the natural progression through their own interests to find it on their own and as we have established anyone of any color with a smoker, a cooler of meat and a $250.00 entry fee are more than welcome by all who are involved."

So the question Neil asked was, "what about those folks who have NOT found competition BBQ yet? Why is that, and would they be interested if they knew what it was all about?

rookiedad
10-24-2011, 11:19 AM
I don't disagree with anything you just said.

"anyone who is involved in competition bbq of any color has already taken the natural progression through their own interests to find it on their own and as we have established anyone of any color with a smoker, a cooler of meat and a $250.00 entry fee are more than welcome by all who are involved."

So the question Neil asked was, "what about those folks who have NOT found competition BBQ yet? Why is that, and would they be interested if they knew what it was all about?

it's the chicken and the egg man! if anyone of any color or ethnic background were interested enough, they would have found it already! with all due respect... it's not hiding anywhere!

ALX
10-24-2011, 07:56 PM
I was talking with a group of folk including the winner of the JACK this saturday night after contest and had a neat converstation with a black gentleman who was with a team from washington state or that region etc.(it was late :doh:)

After remembering this thread from before i left for JACK i was certainly encouraging and he mentioned he was going to put his hat in the KCBS ring and see how he does....

G$
10-24-2011, 09:59 PM
it's the chicken and the egg man! if anyone of any color or ethnic background were interested enough, they would have found it already! with all due respect... it's not hiding anywhere!


Got it. So the maximum number of people that will ever compete has been reached already. :thumb:

rookiedad
10-24-2011, 10:36 PM
Got it. So the maximum number of people that will ever compete has been reached already. :thumb:

sorry, my sentence should have read something more like this:

it's the chicken and the egg man! if anyone of any color or ethnic background was at any time in the past, is at this moment, or will, in the future be interested enough, they would have found it already, can find it easily right now and will always be able to find it! with all due respect... it's not hiding anywhere. :becky:

bam
10-25-2011, 09:11 PM
I think showing the Pitmasters shows will change this in the future. Seeing you Neil and Mo Cason having fun while competing will make black people give it a try. Maybe 2012 who knows cause when Bigmista talks people listen.

rookiedad
10-26-2011, 08:46 AM
i while back i threw out an idea, in the thread below, about competition organizers offering a few spaces per competition for teams to audit. this would allow new teams to compete either for free or at a reduced cost. this would create an easy entry point into competition bbq for all people and in doing so would perhaps be instrumental in getting more black people into competition bbq.

http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=117850&highlight=auditing

dmax35
10-27-2011, 05:43 AM
And please, if you want to talk about goverment stuff, take it to news and politics. Let's stay on topic here.

Let me ask you this, what does the color of someones skin have to do with producing good BBQ, we all breath the same air & bleed red when cut etc. I see no value in your thread.

Lake Dogs
10-27-2011, 06:18 AM
Let me ask you this, what does the color of someones skin have to do with producing good BBQ, we all breath the same air & bleed red when cut etc. I see no value in your thread.

Because my dear man barbecue was created by black people in the deep coastal south; slaves. It's interesting and frankly rather sad that there is little representation in competition barbecue from the very ethnic group that created it in the first place.

rookiedad
10-27-2011, 09:02 AM
Because my dear man barbecue was created by black people in the deep coastal south; slaves. It's interesting and frankly rather sad that there is little representation in competition barbecue from the very ethnic group that created it in the first place.

i think what you might be mining up here is the difference between real, down home, edible, pedestrian bbq, and competition bbq. this is one of the reasons i asked Bigmista weather he found most black people buy bbq or make it themselvs earlier in this thread. real bbq is mounded up, squirted with bbq sauce, has some white bread slapped on it and wrapped in butcher paper. competition bbq is primped, painted, polished, picked at with a tweezer and served on a putting green! maybe black people are just not into this kind of cooking.

deepsouth
10-28-2011, 07:01 AM
Grow up, this society is one race, and lets try to get along.


living in mississippi, i can tell you that this is not true in all places.

MilitantSquatter
10-28-2011, 07:06 AM
Guamaque - SInce you continue to make it public about some of the necessary moderation that took place, so now I will make it public to.


you've got two strikes against you, you know what they say about three.

Guamaque
10-28-2011, 07:25 AM
[QUOTE=MilitantSquatter;1832096][COLOR=Green]Guamaque - SInce you make it public about some of the necessary moderation that took place, so now I will make it public to.


you've got two strikes against you, you know what they say about three.

Thanks, Militant. Apparently I am not able to speak freely in your presence, unlike the rest of this great group of peeps we have here. So if you want to give me the third strike for no reason other than to make a point that you are the boss and would like to control free speech, go for it. I would rather you try to be a constructive moderator and let all people speak freely , even if you do not personally agree. That is what free speech is all about. I don't respond to intimidation, I am a team player that just stated my opinion. Why are you picking on me ? I am actually the person defending your right to free speech currently. I am sitting on this rock on Guam spearheading any communist advances towards the US.
Thank you,


Vinny.

Greendriver
10-28-2011, 07:34 AM
[QUOTE=MilitantSquatter;1832096][COLOR=Green]Guamaque - SInce you make it public about some of the necessary moderation that took place, so now I will make it public to.


you've got two strikes against you, you know what they say about three.

Thanks, Militant. Apparently I am not able to speak freely in your presence, unlike the rest of this great group of peeps we have here. So if you want to give me the third strike for no reason other than to make a point that you are the boss and would like to control free speech, go for it. I would rather you try to be a constructive moderator and let all people speak freely , even if you do not personally agree. That is what free speech is all about. I don't respond to intimidation, I am a team player that just stated my opinion. Why are you picking on me ? I am actually the person defending your right to free speech currently. I am sitting on this rock on Guam spearheading any communist advances towards the US.
Thank you,


Vinny.

Free speech??? this is a private forum, you do not have free speech rights. It is free for you to use but you post according to the owners rules. Doesn't matter - sounds like you want the 3rd strike and I'm sure the mods will be happy to help ya out on that.

Ron_L
10-28-2011, 08:13 AM
Guamaque - SInce you make it public about some of the necessary moderation that took place, so now I will make it public to.


you've got two strikes against you, you know what they say about three.

Thanks, Militant. Apparently I am not able to speak freely in your presence, unlike the rest of this great group of peeps we have here. So if you want to give me the third strike for no reason other than to make a point that you are the boss and would like to control free speech, go for it. I would rather you try to be a constructive moderator and let all people speak freely , even if you do not personally agree. That is what free speech is all about. I don't respond to intimidation, I am a team player that just stated my opinion. Why are you picking on me ? I am actually the person defending your right to free speech currently. I am sitting on this rock on Guam spearheading any communist advances towards the US.
Thank you,


Vinny.

This has nothing to do with you service to our country. We all appreciate that and thank you very much!

I suggest that you review our rules...

http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14685

Pay particular attention to this section...

A MODERATORS DECISION IS FINAL. If your moderated, live with it and move on. We live by these rules, and any moderator action is due to an infringement. We don't moderate on content, but we do enforce these rules.


Challenging a moderator in public for their action will lock you down, all abilities to post and edit will be removed.
Whining to the admin will get you no where, so don’t bother.
When you are moderated for an infraction or infringement, you might receive a PM as to why. If it was a blatant infringement, it will be deleted with no notice. If not, it is acceptable to send a civil note to the moderators requesting the reason. We dont sent messages for general scrubbing or cleanup of banter or chatter.



You've challenged a moderator two or three times in this thread alone. So far we have been lenient and haven't taken the action that is clearly spelled out above.

big brother smoke
10-28-2011, 08:23 AM
This society is not one race and it should not be. That statement is a slap in the face to all of our ancestors. I love being black and value other races as well.:thumb:

SirPorkaLot
10-28-2011, 08:46 AM
You know it is a damn shame what this simple question by Bigmista has turned into on this forum.

This same question was asked on twitter and Facebook by him and was taken there as it was intended.

A honest question by a man trying to figure out how to get more of the people of his race involved in a sport that is based on traditions long standing in his heritage.

In those arenas I believe he got straightforward thoughts and answers on his valid question.

On the other hand on this forum it somehow got turned into a race issue?

Moderators: In my experience here I believe you to be fair and honest, but we have to stop this kinda of crap from tainting an otherwise great forum.

big brother smoke
10-28-2011, 08:52 AM
You know it is a damn shame what this simple question by Bigmista has turned into on this forum.

This same question was asked on twitter and Facebook by him and was taken there as it was intended.

A honest question by a man trying to figure out how to get more of the people of his race involved in a sport that is based on traditions long standing in his heritage.

In those arenas I believe he got straightforward thoughts and answers on his valid question.

On the other hand on this forum it somehow got turned into a race issue?

Moderators: In my experience here I believe you to be fair and honest, but we have to stop this kinda of crap from tainting an otherwise great forum.

Anything involving race is never simple; it is always complex and there is nothing wrong with that. It is merely how you approach the subject. My hope is that we all just respect the subject matter :-D

big brother smoke
10-28-2011, 09:03 AM
Dammit I got sucked in to this thread, this chit happens with the onset of winter and slow down in catering :rolleyes:

BobBrisket
10-28-2011, 09:23 AM
This has nothing to do with you service to our country. We all appreciate that and thank you very much!

I suggest that you review our rules...

http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14685

Pay particular attention to this section...

A MODERATORS DECISION IS FINAL. If your moderated, live with it and move on. We live by these rules, and any moderator action is due to an infringement. We don't moderate on content, but we do enforce these rules.


Challenging a moderator in public for their action will lock you down, all abilities to post and edit will be removed.
Whining to the admin will get you no where, so don’t bother.
When you are moderated for an infraction or infringement, you might receive a PM as to why. If it was a blatant infringement, it will be deleted with no notice. If not, it is acceptable to send a civil note to the moderators requesting the reason. We dont sent messages for general scrubbing or cleanup of banter or chatter.
You've challenged a moderator two or three times in this thread alone. So far we have been lenient and haven't taken the action that is clearly spelled out above.





Adding to Ron's suggested link, one more suggested read: Very "fitting" I might add!
http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24289

smokinb
10-29-2011, 09:06 AM
I want to see more Sweden females competing? Anyone have any ideas on how to make that happen? And kids. I like seeing junior pit masters on the circuit.

sitnfat
10-29-2011, 09:47 AM
"I want to see more Sweden females competing" Like the one on their curling team :becky:

BBQchef33
10-29-2011, 10:12 AM
Admin dote:
Folks, I have been away for a few days and have just returned to this thread.

Mista has posted a legit question, and thanks to those that have responed within the original intent of the topic.

For those that have dragged this into places where it was not intended, or decided to piss on the shoes of our moderators, here is some insight. When u signed up for this forum, your first amendment was 're-amended' to our own forum rules. If you feel you can not live within those rules, LEAVE NOW. Have a nice day.

That being said, if you find no value in this thread, dont read it. If you read it, dont comment unless its constructive, civil and ontopic.

and for those who have decided to challenge the moderators publicly, an action, that if I caught earlier would have had you locked out immediately and permanently, let me give you some solid advice. The mods decisions are not up for discussion or comment. If you dont like what they do, well thats just tough crap. Get over it and yourself. Any further pissing contests with our mods in this thread or anywhere else in the forum, you WILL be removed.

Cue's Your Daddy
10-29-2011, 11:04 AM
Hell, might as well throw my opinion in. I think mista brings up a valid question. Can this just come down to economics. This is from the census bureau.
Although incomes for African Americans have improved significantly since the Civil Rights era, they are still lower then the average Americans. For example the median income for Black families is $20 thousand a year less than the American median income. These charts also prove that there is a substantial benefit for those in a married-couple family no matter what race or ethnicity.
5.5% of African Americans receive public cash assistance which is twice that of the national share. But even more startling, is the fact that 26% of Blacks receive some sort of food stamp assistance. SOURCE:US Census Bureau 2010 American Community Survey

Those are some big numbers. What it shows, or at least in my view, is thats blacks have less money to use for non essential needs. I would consider a bbq contest a non essential need.
With that being said, can it just be a part of up bringing. I would view the views of some blacks with that of my family who where from eastern Europe. The Ukraine to be exact. My fathers family fled the Ukraine to escape communisim. He was born in a displaced persons camp in germany. They then went to Argentina and finally made it to America. They pretty much just packed up and left. When they came to America they had very little money because it wasnt like they sold there houses, you just left. My grandfather actually built the houses that they lived in. When we tell the people from my fathers church, who are old school ukrainians what we spend on contests they gasp. "To cook food" they say. Oh Bozhe they say "oh God' They dont see what the point is. Most of the people who came over from the ukraine worked doing labor. They were builders or worked as janitors, which my family did. There up bringing was to only spend money on necessity. My father see's things a little different. He see's it as a way to spend time with his son's and to spend time as a family. It keeps us together. Church is very important to my family and we are probably one of the few teams who have had there smoker blessed by a priest for good luck. (thats what the priest does for you when you help cook for church picnics) Sorry for the rambling but hopefully it makes some type of scense.

MilitantSquatter
10-29-2011, 11:22 AM
Doing some reading, I found an article...

http://www.targetmarketnews.com/storyid11011001.htm


Today, BBQ competition is primarily a hobby of middle aged, middle class white americans..and it's a bastardized and/or unrecognizable version of what many people consider BBQ....This perception can certainly change, but that's just what it is today. As with anything else, to get a broader cross section of a population involved, they need to be come both exposed and welcomed.

While incomes are often lighter for many minorities in the US for a variety of reasons, there's still certainly a lot of money being spent . take a look...

I think it's a matter of exposure and personal decision first, economics second.


Estimated Expenditures by Black Households - 2009
Apparel Products and Services
$29.3 billion

Appliances
2.0 billion

Beverages (Alcoholic)
3.0 billion

Beverages (Non-Alcoholic)
2.8 billion

Books
321 million

Cars and Trucks - New & Used
29.1 billion

Computers
3.6 billion

Consumer Electronics
6.1 billion

Contributions
17.3 billion

Education
7.5 billion

Entertainment and Leisure
3.1 billion

Food
65.2 billion

Gifts
9.6 billion

Health Care
23.6 billion

Households Furnishings & Equipment
16.5 billion

Housewares
1.1 billion

Housing and Related Charges
203.8 billion

Insurance
21.3 billion

Media
8.8 billion

Miscellaneous
8.3 billion

Personal and Professional Services
4.1 billion

Personal Care Products and Services
7.4 billion

Sports and Recreational Equipment
995 million

Telephone Services
18.6 billion

Tobacco Products
3.3 billion

Toys, Games and Pets
3.5 billion

Travel, Transportation and Lodging
6.0 billion

Source: Target Market News, "The Buying Power of Black American - 2010"

Lake Dogs
10-29-2011, 03:20 PM
I got to thinking; over the last 30 years or so, as an adult, what are those things I've done as a hobby that was a competition of sorts. For me, my wife and I bowled in the 80's, then in the 80's and 90's we played tennis and sometimes golfed. More of an individual sport and can get expensive, I did triathlons in the latter 90's and early 2000's. I dont recall many black people participating in any of these. Is this something that is fairly unique to white people, because when living in a very diverse community most of the bowlers (league bowlers) and most of tennis team players, by a LARGE margin, were white. I dont know that I've ever seen a black triathlete.

Meaning, culturally, do black people enjoy competitions and/or sports as a hobby, especially after their 20's?

bam
10-29-2011, 09:26 PM
I think if you see some one who looks like you will give you the idea you can do it. To see Mo Cason and Neil AKA Bigmista on bbq pitmaster sends a message to want a bees. Neil I believe you will see more teams in the future because of you and Mo. :-D

rookiedad
10-30-2011, 08:34 AM
here are some thoughts!
1) you could sponsor a bbq team (and perhaps get local buisness owners to sponsor teams) made up of African american students from a local school or group.
2) you could run a recipe or composition competition through such schools and groups where the participant would win an internship position on the Four Qs.
3) you could throw some neighborhood competitions in mostly black neighborhoods. they don't need to be KCBS. just a rib competition or even a sauce competition might be enough to introduce the idea to some folks.