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View Full Version : Brisket finish in the 180's??? Need Help....Again.....


fnbish
10-05-2011, 06:27 PM
Please stick with me as I'm sure I will type many paragraphs to give you lots of detail :-P.

So with only a few competitions left this year and feeling comfortable (relatively speaking of course) with my chicken, ribs, pork I'm really trying some new things with brisket since I feel and know it is my worst category. Though my last 2 competitions my brisket did better than some of the other meats. Had one finish middle of the pack and this last weekend 7th of the 30ish teams.

But.........I have to date never ever once cooked a brisket flat that I didn't think was at least a little dry. The point and burnt ends are pretty good I think what potentially has helped bring up our scores. So I have no idea what people are doing to get moist slices that I see in the pictures. My most recent thought process is for me 195-205 is just too high and most of my briskets get done a few hours before turn in and rest and potentially keep cooking in the foil/cooler. My last brisket seemed juicy when I took it out to remove the point and make burnt ends, but was not when I sliced it a few hours later.

So after reading through as many brisket threads as I could find including the ones in this competition forum compilation (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13677) I saw a few people mention they take their briskets off anywhere from 180-185 and that is it because they do in fact keep cooking from carry over temperature.

Here is the big question bolded and underlined as to not get lost in my long post :-D. Does anyone here take their briskets out in this range (180-185 or even just before 190)???

I know a question you will want to know is "how do I cook my brisket?", and I have tried about every method I can think of that I found on this forum. I've done hot and fast, low and slow, in the middle temperature. Of those 3 cooking temps I have foiled and not foiled in each variation and also done fat cap up and down in each variation with trimming fat cap variations mixed in too. I've also done each method in each of my 3 cookers. Also should mention I use the Choice Packers they have at Sams most recently, but have also wrecked plenty of what I'm guessing is select from Walmart and also some choice and select briskets from Kroger.

I also do the probe test starting at 190 and I have never ever felt it go in what people say is just "like butter" in the flat. It feels like that in the point, but literally never in the flat. At first I just thought I was a complete brisket cooking idiot and maybe didn't know what I was really feeling for, but then put the probe in the point and it goes in and out super easy. Folks say if it doesn't go in easy you need to keep cooking till it does even to 205 or 210. When I do that it still never goes in easy and just overcooks more.

So I'm going to be the first to say that I obviously just really suck at cooking brisket and have some type of idiot block that keeps me from doing so because you would have thought I might have had 1 brisket out of all of them that were not dry. But as much as it frustrates me it is still fun and I love cooking at home and competition :-P.

So are there any other 180-190 brisket finish temperature believes/do'ers out there?? I'm going to try one this weekend that way no matter how the "butter" test feels at that range I'm going to take it out and let it rest for 90mins (about the time it rests at a comp while the burnt ends get made). It seems I have tried all the combinations of cooking possible and the only thing I haven't tried is simply taking it off earlier. I figured would ask around since I you all have helped me a ton with everything else.

Also if you think of something else it could be let me know.

Thank you if you have read all of this and are willing to help.

mclancey
10-05-2011, 07:33 PM
Curious to see some replies. Word for Word, I have the exact same issue.

boogiesnap
10-05-2011, 07:40 PM
me too.

fnbish
10-05-2011, 07:49 PM
Curious to see some replies. Word for Word, I have the exact same issue.

So i'm not the only one I see :-P. I doubt the pulling early method will be a complete fix as it is probably the right mix of cooking techniques to really nail a brisket. But at my last comp when I too the brisket off and touched the flat it really felt like there was juice in there. More than normal. But come slice time it was dry :crazy:. Hopefully I'll/we'll get some good advice :pray:

Plowboy
10-05-2011, 07:50 PM
The key is probably this... What goes up, must come down.

Cooking a big piece of meat is as much about what happens after you take it off as it does during the cook. So you take your brisket to 195-200, then what happens? It has to come back down. The slower it comes down, the more it cooks, rendering the connective tissues and breaking down collogen. The faster it cools, the less of that process happens. My advice is focus less on the right final temp range, but more on the holding process. 195-200 is a good range to pull it. Put a probe in it and monitor the brisket as it holds. Too done? Cool faster. Too tough? Cool slower.

As far as the "feels like butter" test, it is a false test. Direction of the grain is going to affect the feel. Are you probing with the grain or against the grain of the flat? This is going to make a difference.

Good luck.

Plowboy
10-05-2011, 07:52 PM
Also, inject with a phosphate based product like Butchers Beef Injection. Phosphates attract moisture to protein.

boogiesnap
10-05-2011, 07:56 PM
i probe in multiple directions. never pull before tender in all of them, regardless of temp.

i've held in a cooler for many hours and very few, vented first, not vented. still...a bit dry.

i as well have done HNF, LNS, in the middle, etc.

i personally do use butchers now.

fnbish
10-05-2011, 08:01 PM
The key is probably this... What goes up, must come down.

Cooking a big piece of meat is as much about what happens after you take it off as it does during the cook. So you take your brisket to 195-200, then what happens? It has to come back down. The slower it comes down, the more it cooks, rendering the connective tissues and breaking down collogen. The faster it cools, the less of that process happens. My advice is focus less on the right final temp range, but more on the holding process. 195-200 is a good range to pull it. Put a probe in it and monitor the brisket as it holds. Too done? Cool faster. Too tough? Cool slower.

As far as the "feels like butter" test, it is a false test. Direction of the grain is going to affect the feel. Are you probing with the grain or against the grain of the flat? This is going to make a difference.

Good luck.

Great advice I hadn't thought about. Every time I take the brisket off I go ahead and take the probe out so the Maverick can still monitor pit temp for my other meats. When I practice I'll leave the probe in there and see what happens. Because as I mentioned when It came off at 195 this last weekend the flat seemed like there was juice in there. But it rested double wrapped in foil and a big towel for 90mins while the point finished up.

For the "butter" test I actually never thought about which way to probe. I always went in more against the grain now that I think about it. But each time may have been a little different. I never understood this test and it kind of ticked me off because so many people make it sound like it is so easy like it happens every single time. And maybe it is and I just can't cook brisket :-P.

fnbish
10-05-2011, 08:04 PM
Also, inject with a phosphate based product like Butchers Beef Injection. Phosphates attract moisture to protein.

This last brisket that got a 7th I injected with beef broth, a little sugar, little salt, and some rub. I feel like it did give more flavor which my brisket typically lack as well. Is there anything like that butchers injection in grocery stores. Looks like that one you have to order online.

Butcher BBQ
10-05-2011, 08:28 PM
i probe in multiple directions. never pull before tender in all of them, regardless of temp.

i've held in a cooler for many hours and very few, vented first, not vented. still...a bit dry.

i as well have done HNF, LNS, in the middle, etc.

i personally do use butchers now.

I might have missed this but I'm going to ask, Do you wrap your brisket in your cooking cycle?

Also using my product how much do you inject and how large of brisket? How long do you let it set before cooking?

boogiesnap
10-05-2011, 08:37 PM
we may be hijacking here....but we'll see.

with your product, yes, wrap after @ 5 hours. 275* give or take.

inject @ 1/2 strength w/ prime dust. sit in fridge for @ 8 hours. no more.

cook another 2 or so...till probe tender. split off point, vent flat, rewrap it, and into a cooler for @ 5-6 hours.

10-14 pounders pretrimmed.

mwert
10-05-2011, 08:43 PM
I would suggest buying better cuts of meat, or learning how to select better cuts from what's available. The only time I've had the probe test not pan out was when I couldn't find good cuts to use. Probe against the grain laterally. You'll feel the "butter" texture in the point first, followed by the opposite end, then finally in the middle. If you can't achieve this with a better cut, try cooking at a lower temp. Try cooking with out foiling to get better flavor. I don't know what it is, but foil sucks the life out of briskets when I've used it.
Also, no matter how juicy your brisket is when you slice it, its going to dry out fast. The pictures you are refering too were probably taken right after they spritzed with AJ or something else that gives it a sheen. The tell-tell sign is when the garnish is shinny too.

fnbish
10-05-2011, 08:55 PM
I would suggest buying better cuts of meat, or learning how to select better cuts from what's available. The only time I've had the probe test not pan out was when I couldn't find good cuts to use. Probe against the grain laterally. You'll feel the "butter" texture in the point first, followed by the opposite end, then finally in the middle. If you can't achieve this with a better cut, try cooking at a lower temp. Try cooking with out foiling to get better flavor. I don't know what it is, but foil sucks the life out of briskets when I've used it.
Also, no matter how juicy your brisket is when you slice it, its going to dry out fast. The pictures you are refering too were probably taken right after they spritzed with AJ or something else that gives it a sheen. The tell-tell sign is when the garnish is shinny too.

Thanks for the tips. I've been sticking with Sam's choice for the last few competitions and home because they have been some of the best looking cuts I can find and the best price to. The meat is the most deep red I have found and looks the freshest even when compared to a butcher shop where I get my butts. I haven't tried a really low cooking temp like 210-215ish which I heard some teams run.

Pack-A-Smokes
10-05-2011, 09:14 PM
For the brisket I use, I pull off at 195 in the point. And yes, I have felt that "like butter" feeling but only a couple of times. Brisket has been our strong point all year. I know many have scoffed at the SRF briskets, but what I have won with them has paid for the brisket in all but one or two comps. After I started using them my scores soared. I had been using Sam's or whole packers from local butcher and well...just didn't get it done. First comp. I used SRF in, I got 3rd out of 47 in sevierville, TN and have only been out of the top ten twice. Once was a darn near DQ the other was 11th. The DQ was due to a question of rather sauce or liquid was pooling in the box. The rep. determined it was not, but our scores suffered. He told us that the 2nd judge questioned it. We got one good score and the rest was not so much good. We still go 29th out of 59. I was not all too happy because it had a great taste. Darn Jameson's Irish whiskey! I have since not taken a drink of it at comps. Although, I am having one now.

bigzthamoose
10-05-2011, 09:15 PM
wish i could help. I cook two different breeds of cow for my briskets lately, and they all have consistently finished way under your normal 195-205 realm. I find the "butter" test to work out pretty nicely, and ever since i used that as a gauge instead of temp, ive made way more consistent product. Like plowboy said, if its already there, get that bad boy to cool down quick, but if you think you pulled it a little early, wrap it up and let it finish. Both ways ive done it it worked good. This is from about 20+ briskets cooked over the summer, not in comps yet, but under comp time and schedule as im practicing for my rookie season next year!

Sledneck
10-05-2011, 10:16 PM
I've had great brisket at 215, temp means nothing

E Mellow
10-05-2011, 10:26 PM
If the cooler/cambro method is causing to much carryover cooking, consider a moving blanket. It will still hold heat but allow the meat to cool at a faster pace. All depends on the weather and how early you get done. Just trying to give you another idea.

When it comes time to go in the box, play with the thickness of your slices till you get it right. I have found that each brisket tends to be a little different.

fnbish
10-05-2011, 10:38 PM
I've had great brisket at 215, temp means nothing

I do agree with that temp can't be everything since each piece of meat is different, but then what are you looking for? Again going back to the butter technique if I waited till it truely went in like butter I would be waiting forever. I'm starting to think people just like saying "butter"

fnbish
10-05-2011, 10:42 PM
If the cooler/cambro method is causing to much carryover cooking, consider a moving blanket. It will still hold heat but allow the meat to cool at a faster pace. All depends on the weather and how early you get done. Just trying to give you another idea.

When it comes time to go in the box, play with the thickness of your slices till you get it right. I have found that each brisket tends to be a little different.

Thanks for this advice. Similar to what Plowboy mentioned I wouldn't have thought about cooling the meat down faster. Double wrapping in foil, then a towel, then into a cooler the meat still has a lot of heat when I take it out after 90min-2hrs. So it may be damn overcooking after I take it out and I just never knew.

Butcher BBQ
10-06-2011, 06:24 AM
we may be hijacking here....but we'll see.

with your product, yes, wrap after @ 5 hours. 275* give or take.

inject @ 1/2 strength w/ prime dust. sit in fridge for @ 8 hours. no more.

cook another 2 or so...till probe tender. split off point, vent flat, rewrap it, and into a cooler for @ 5-6 hours.

10-14 pounders pretrimmed.

Okay thats a good gauge to wrap but whats the internal temp when wrapping. Your ending condition may be caused from what your doing way before you get done. If the meat is to high of temp and already stated to dry out or is dried out your ending product will be dry.

Curly Tails
10-06-2011, 06:55 AM
Last year at a comp in GA, I was talking to Tuffy Stone of Cool Smoke and Bub-Ba-Q walked up after turning in his brisket and said he took his brisket to 214 and it was still not finished.
I believe that each piece of meat renders differently, We do check for the butter feel at around 190 but most of the times it is finished closer to 205-208. But not everytime. Lately we have had better luck with Sams club briskets over SRF. For some reason we just keep getting crappy briskets from SNF. However we will give them another try next weekend.

boogiesnap
10-06-2011, 07:23 AM
Okay thats a good gauge to wrap but whats the internal temp when wrapping. Your ending condition may be caused from what your doing way before you get done. If the meat is to high of temp and already stated to dry out or is dried out your ending product will be dry.

agreed, but, if a 12# brisket is dry after only 5 hours on the cooker (not running hot and fast), we're pretty much farked no matter what. i don't see what could have been done to prevent THAT.

if i recall, it's typically 140-170* after @ 5 hours.

to the OP. i haven't tried that super duper lo n slow either. maybe that's the ticket?

but i know for a fact there are cooks that go hot and fast at comps with great success. so i don't know. smother it in turkey gravy?

fnbish
10-06-2011, 07:28 AM
Last year at a comp in GA, I was talking to Tuffy Stone of Cool Smoke and Bub-Ba-Q walked up after turning in his brisket and said he took his brisket to 214 and it was still not finished.
I believe that each piece of meat renders differently, We do check for the butter feel at around 190 but most of the times it is finished closer to 205-208. But not everytime. Lately we have had better luck with Sams club briskets over SRF. For some reason we just keep getting crappy briskets from SNF. However we will give them another try next weekend.

I heard Tuffy gets Waygu and that they finish higher and are also delicious :-P. For the holiday's I was thinking of giving one a whirl and see what happens. I'd hate to screw up an expensive piece of meat like that though :icon_blush:.

CBQ
10-06-2011, 08:06 AM
We use Waygu on occasion, but have also gotten good results with a random RD brisket. The RD brisket will need a couple more hours to cook, but it will get there.

Sticking your delicate flat in a Cambro stuffed full of pork butts will cause problems. If you are taking your big meats off early and resting them for 6 hours, the heat from the other meats is going to keep cooking your brisket into shoe leather. Todd is right about the cooling.

The other question is cooking temp. Someone mentioned 275? I would suggest that 210-230 is low and slow, and 300-350 is hot and fast. Anything in the middle is: dry brisket. The heat is high enough to dry the meat out faster, but not hot enough to finish the cook in a short period of time.

fnbish
10-06-2011, 08:13 AM
We use Waygu on occasion, but have also gotten good results with a random RD brisket. The RD brisket will need a couple more hours to cook, but it will get there.

Sticking your delicate flat in a Cambro stuffed full of pork butts will cause problems. If you are taking your big meats off early and resting them for 6 hours, the heat from the other meats is going to keep cooking your brisket into shoe leather. Todd is right about the cooling.

The other question is cooking temp. Someone mentioned 275? I would suggest that 210-230 is low and slow, and 300-350 is hot and fast. Anything in the middle is: dry brisket. The heat is high enough to dry the meat out faster, but not hot enough to finish the cook in a short period of time.

Another good point that I didn't think about is that my flat does not only go into a cooler wrapped up tight, but also in the same cooler as my butts. Now I don't think I have ever had them rest for more than 2hrs, but that additional heat from the butts could be over doing it as well. I might have a separate rest cooker for the brisket. Also I have been doing low and slow recently around 225 and the results are slightly better.

FatBoyz
10-06-2011, 11:14 AM
i belive in my heart that yoru brisket makes the differance. my scores are way up since wygoo came into my life... like how i spell wygoo lol

boogiesnap
10-06-2011, 11:23 AM
my "accountant" isn't going to be happy about this....wagyoo thingie.

luckyduk
10-06-2011, 11:45 AM
You do not need waygu to score consistently, people like waygu just for the fact when you order one they are more CONSISTENT. I buy many a cases of brisket to find enough suitable for contests.
With that being said cook and cool before putting in cambro

INmitch
10-06-2011, 12:14 PM
I cook wagyu only because I can't find any good angus around here. I cook @ 250, wrap @ 160. I'll go one step further. One end of the flat will finish sooner than the other. I always take a slice from each end to see whats best. And yes trust your butcher. Take Him & Todds class. It's made me a lot of $ this year on brisket.:thumb:

Plowboy
10-06-2011, 12:44 PM
You do not need waygu to score consistently, people like waygu just for the fact when you order one they are more CONSISTENT. I buy many a cases of brisket to find enough suitable for contests.
With that being said cook and cool before putting in cambro

Actually, cooling before the Cambro depends on how long you intend to hold it. Total mass in the cambro also matters.

I had a student contact me about their pork not turning out like mine yet they were doing every step I taught them. Upon further discussion, found out they cooked four butts where I only cook two. Doubling the mass of 196 degree pork in the Cambro affects how long it takes for the temps to come down. Their pork continued to cook at higher temps than mine because of the extra mass.

Thinking as much about what you are doing after the cook is as important as prep and the cooking process itself.

InMitch - You guys have had a great year including Sam's Club and the Royal. Nice job.

luckyduk
10-06-2011, 01:09 PM
Actually, cooling before the Cambro depends on how long you intend to hold it. Total mass in the cambro also matters.

I had a student contact me about their pork not turning out like mine yet they were doing every step I taught them. Upon further discussion, found out they cooked four butts where I only cook two. Doubling the mass of 196 degree pork in the Cambro affects how long it takes for the temps to come down. Their pork continued to cook at higher temps than mind because of the extra mass.

Thinking as much about what you are doing after the cook is as imporant as prep and the cooking process itself.

InMitch - You guys have had a great year including Sam's Club and the Royal. Nice job.


Very true!

Briskets in one cambro, butts in the other

mclancey
10-06-2011, 01:33 PM
So would it be a good idea to cook them until you think they are done, vent them in foil, stick a probe in, and then wrap and cambro when it hits about 155?

Plowboy
10-06-2011, 01:46 PM
I've had great brisket at 215, temp means nothing

I disagree.

Yes, a 215 brisket and a 185 brisket can both be good. Doesn't mean that temp means nothing when cooking. But, to your point, it isn't everything.

A 215 brisket needs to cool faster or not be held long. A 215 brisket may need to be removed for the foil and set on the counter for 10-20 minutes. I wouldn't do that to a 185 brisket, though. Holding a 185 brisket longer could turn out just like the 215 one.

So, it isn't that temp means nothing. Temp is a great indicator of where you are at. A better statement is that temp isn't everything.

Plowboy
10-06-2011, 01:48 PM
One other topic that has been discussed here is aging. An aged brisket is going to cook differently and yield to tenderness differently than a non-aged brisket. Aged briskets aren't going to sieze up on you when cooled like non-aged briskets can.

Shiz-Nit
10-06-2011, 02:17 PM
One other topic that has been discussed here is aging. An aged brisket is going to cook differently and yield to tenderness differently than a non-aged brisket. Aged briskets aren't going to sieze up on you when cooled like non-aged briskets can.

Please explain a little more please. How do I tell if it is aged or not? Besides the sell by date.

boogiesnap
10-06-2011, 03:27 PM
the only way to know the kill date is to get it off of the packing case.

then track aging at home in cryovac.

boogiesnap
10-06-2011, 07:10 PM
I disagree.

Yes, a 215 brisket and a 185 brisket can both be good. Doesn't mean that temp means nothing when cooking. But, to your point, it isn't everything.

A 215 brisket needs to cool faster or not be held long. A 215 brisket may need to be removed for the foil and set on the counter for 10-20 minutes. I wouldn't do that to a 185 brisket, though. Holding a 185 briskoes et longer could turn out just like the 215 one.

So, it isn't that temp means nothing. Temp is a great indicator of where you are at. A better statement is that temp isn't everything.

so, if i follow correctly....:roll: always an IF.

cook schedule is laid out. brisket goes on @ X, gets wrapped around Y, and pulled @ Z. then coolered until turn in time.

now, if said brisket is tender on timeISH, are you suggesting it must be vented/cooled to a lower temp IF it came off at a high temp? and conversely, let it stay at a high temp while resting if it was tender at a lower temp?.

both resting periods being the same amount of time.

OR

if it came off at a high temp it cannot be rested long at all and vice versa, must be rested long, for a lower temp finished brisket?

Butcher BBQ
10-06-2011, 08:02 PM
agreed, but, if a 12# brisket is dry after only 5 hours on the cooker (not running hot and fast), we're pretty much farked no matter what. i don't see what could have been done to prevent THAT.

if i recall, it's typically 140-170* after @ 5 hours.

to the OP. i haven't tried that super duper lo n slow either. maybe that's the ticket?

but i know for a fact there are cooks that go hot and fast at comps with great success. so i don't know. smother it in turkey gravy?

It does make a difference and you can keep it from happening by knowing how beef cooks. Like what temp is the maximum time to keep the moisture in and what temp the meat actually breaks down the connective tissues. Both are different and if you go to long in the smoking cycle the meat has started giving up the internal moisture as to where you can save that moisture and still break down the connective tissue.

That all being said that is why I asked the questions I did. I don't believe it is in the end of your cook or even the type of meat. It is your wrapping temp is to late and your meat has already gave up the internal moisture. If your wrapping at 170 your will be hard pressed to ever get a moist brisket when sliced or even 15 minutes later when the judges taste it.

boogiesnap
10-06-2011, 08:24 PM
It does make a difference and you can keep it from happening by knowing how beef cooks. Like what temp is the maximum time to keep the moisture in and what temp the meat actually breaks down the connective tissues. Both are different and if you go to long in the smoking cycle the meat has started giving up the internal moisture as to where you can save that moisture and still break down the connective tissue.

That all being said that is why I asked the questions I did. I don't believe it is in the end of your cook or even the type of meat. It is your wrapping temp is to late and your meat has already gave up the internal moisture. If your wrapping at 170 your will be hard pressed to ever get a moist brisket when sliced or even 15 minutes later when the judges taste it.

you've got me perplexed on that one bro.

how would you explain a brisket cook that doesn't wrap, yet still produces a tender, moist product?

Butcher BBQ
10-06-2011, 08:29 PM
you've got me perplexed on that one bro.

how would you explain a brisket cook that doesn't wrap, yet still produces a tender, moist product?

Tender is easy, cook it till its done, moistness is also easy some meats have enough internal moisture to go thru (marbling) the cook or even the cooking environment. Like a moist cooking chamber or self basting rotisserie unit does the same thing. My FEC 500 with a chamber full self bastes the meat directly under the next and Myron Mixon's cookers use lots of moisture.

boogiesnap
10-06-2011, 08:35 PM
so why would wrapping at X temp produce a dry brisket?

my WMS's are stuffed at a comp. plenty of moisture.

not calling you out bro, i just am not understanding what you're trying to teach.

fnbish
10-06-2011, 09:17 PM
You guys could pm each other....

Shiz-Nit
10-06-2011, 09:43 PM
You guys could pm each other....

No please go on.... This is good stuff and I am understanding the process better due to this. Some questions being asked is some that are running threw my head also. I use Butchers products and LOVE them. I no they work but I am understanding a little more. So please go on.

INmitch
10-06-2011, 10:57 PM
I just got done trimming my last batch of chicken for the year & celebrating!! So I thought I'd chime in with a drunkin post.
If your pulling the cow at 185 or whatever... you're not even to the point where everything has broken down in your meat (which is where the moisture n flavor comes from). It's no wonder you think it's dry.
It sounds to me like your cutting the whole process a little short.
I take my comp briskies to butter feel n throw them in a 28qt cooler. No venting, no nothin!! At 1:17 pull em out n wack em up.:crazy: It works for me.
They are usually pulled off the smoker between 10-11 am.

fnbish
10-07-2011, 07:47 AM
I just got done trimming my last batch of chicken for the year & celebrating!! So I thought I'd chime in with a drunkin post.
If your pulling the cow at 185 or whatever... you're not even to the point where everything has broken down in your meat (which is where the moisture n flavor comes from). It's no wonder you think it's dry.
It sounds to me like your cutting the whole process a little short.
I take my comp briskies to butter feel n throw them in a 28qt cooler. No venting, no nothin!! At 1:17 pull em out n wack em up.:crazy: It works for me.
They are usually pulled off the smoker between 10-11 am.

Congrats on being drunk and getting your chicken trimmed :-P. I don't think anyone here (including myself) has said they have tried the "take it off in the 180's" yet. We were getting advice on if it could work and it seems the carryover temperature could bring the meat from the 180's to the 190's since it stay in a pretty warm cooler. If it does continue to cook in foil and the cooler fat is still breaking down.

boogiesnap
10-07-2011, 07:54 AM
You guys could pm each other....


sorry if you feel we stepped on your toes. honestly, not my intention, but when you have the attention of cooks like butchers and todd and they are willing to share with everyone...well, gotta bend their ear and listen. no need to to keep it private.

it seemed "on topic" as it wasn't aimed at a specific product, but, end goal of moist and tender brisket.

again, though, i apologize. i'll slowly back away from your post. :thumb:

fnbish
10-07-2011, 08:18 AM
sorry if you feel we stepped on your toes. honestly, not my intention, but when you have the attention of cooks like butchers and todd and they are willing to share with everyone...well, gotta bend their ear and listen. no need to to keep it private.

it seemed "on topic" as it wasn't aimed at a specific product, but, end goal of moist and tender brisket.

again, though, i apologize. i'll slowly back away from your post. :thumb:

Oh no problem. I know no harm was intended. It is impossible to ever completely avoid :-P. It seemed like you all were maybe talking more about Butchers products (which I'll have to check out) and the effects with those. This post has given me all kinds of great info I was looking for and you asked lots of questions that helped too.

Plowboy
10-07-2011, 09:22 AM
Another trick is to slice your brisket early, like right after ribs turn in and before you work on pork and let the slices sit in the au jus. They will absorb some of that liquid back into the product.

Shiz-Nit
10-08-2011, 09:21 AM
Another trick is to slice your brisket early, like right after ribs turn in and before you work on pork and let the slices sit in the au jus. They will absorb some of that liquid back into the product.

huh basic... but never thought of it, makes sence.

Thanks I will indeed give it a try :thumb:

Kenny Rogers
10-08-2011, 11:16 AM
Brisket is done when it's done. My first one was tough, but that's because I was cooking for temperature. I had one other come off "tough" and that was my first and only attempt at hot and fast brisket.
I've made somewhere around 100 briskets and they always come off tender (with the aformentioned exceptions)

I cook around 225 - 250 for APPROX 1-1.5 hrs a lb

A couple of things I've picked up.
1) ALWAYS rub your meat.
2) after the first 2-3 hours your brisket will not take on any more smoke.
3) foil after the first 3 (or so) hours and probe till done. You WILL know when this is. My magic number for most of mine is 210 degrees (in the center of the thickest part), HOWEVER this will vary and is ONLY a rule of thumb, do NOT pull until done, as this temp WILL vary due to many different factors, such as : fat and marbling content of meat, humidity in cooker, etc...
4) Always let your meat rest. I understand what others are saying above, how you want to cool it down quickly if your overdone, but to me "overdone" means it's falling apart. Pull it before then. The contrast between not done, and done is amazing, and you will notice the difference. Once you get this down, you'll want to pull just before "butter" so you don't have this problem.

Play around with injections, they will add a level of moisture and flavor to your brisket you probably didn't know was possible. Butchers is awesome! Get some. Try it, play with it, make it your own.
Most of all... don't give up!

fnbish
10-08-2011, 08:09 PM
Brisket is done when it's done. My first one was tough, but that's because I was cooking for temperature. I had one other come off "tough" and that was my first and only attempt at hot and fast brisket.
I've made somewhere around 100 briskets and they always come off tender (with the aformentioned exceptions)

I cook around 225 - 250 for APPROX 1-1.5 hrs a lb

A couple of things I've picked up.
1) ALWAYS rub your meat.
2) after the first 2-3 hours your brisket will not take on any more smoke.
3) foil after the first 3 (or so) hours and probe till done. You WILL know when this is. My magic number for most of mine is 210 degrees (in the center of the thickest part), HOWEVER this will vary and is ONLY a rule of thumb, do NOT pull until done, as this temp WILL vary due to many different factors, such as : fat and marbling content of meat, humidity in cooker, etc...
4) Always let your meat rest. I understand what others are saying above, how you want to cool it down quickly if your overdone, but to me "overdone" means it's falling apart. Pull it before then. The contrast between not done, and done is amazing, and you will notice the difference. Once you get this down, you'll want to pull just before "butter" so you don't have this problem.

Play around with injections, they will add a level of moisture and flavor to your brisket you probably didn't know was possible. Butchers is awesome! Get some. Try it, play with it, make it your own.
Most of all... don't give up!

All great into here. Another thing I may try is foiling earlier like you mentioned. The main problem I see with the "it's done when it's done" methodology is that in competition you don't always have time to wait for that. There is a deadline and you have to hit it regardless if you get a brisket that wants to go a lot longer.

lazy butt
10-08-2011, 10:31 PM
Learned alot here thanks to everyone for your input:eusa_clap

Kenny Rogers
10-09-2011, 10:39 AM
All great into here. Another thing I may try is foiling earlier like you mentioned. The main problem I see with the "it's done when it's done" methodology is that in competition you don't always have time to wait for that. There is a deadline and you have to hit it regardless if you get a brisket that wants to go a lot longer.

You can rest your brisket for up to 4 hours, plan to have it (almost) done early, and increase the resting time if you need to. That's another good reason to practice using meat from the same vendor.... Consistency is the most important factor of any competition.

BC Squared
10-09-2011, 12:48 PM
For the brisket I use, I pull off at 195 in the point. And yes, I have felt that "like butter" feeling but only a couple of times. Brisket has been our strong point all year. I know many have scoffed at the SRF briskets, but what I have won with them has paid for the brisket in all but one or two comps. After I started using them my scores soared. I had been using Sam's or whole packers from local butcher and well...just didn't get it done. First comp. I used SRF in, I got 3rd out of 47 in sevierville, TN and have only been out of the top ten twice. Once was a darn near DQ the other was 11th. The DQ was due to a question of rather sauce or liquid was pooling in the box. The rep. determined it was not, but our scores suffered. He told us that the 2nd judge questioned it. We got one good score and the rest was not so much good. We still go 29th out of 59. I was not all too happy because it had a great taste. Darn Jameson's Irish whiskey! I have since not taken a drink of it at comps. Although, I am having one now.

I heard people were having trouble getting consistent sized cuts from SRF, how's your luck been. We have used Wagyu and Kobi cuts before, but never SRF.

Kenny Rogers
10-10-2011, 01:23 PM
I heard people were having trouble getting consistent sized cuts from SRF, how's your luck been. We have used Wagyu and Kobi cuts before, but never SRF.

The Wagyu's we got from SRF for the comp in Yakima were 20lbs apiece! Biggest briskets I've ever seen. And they were awesome! We made two of them, they seem to prefer hot and fast, as we did them a couple of ways and the hot and fast were the best!