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Matt_A
08-24-2011, 02:30 PM
Here's a Health Department oddity for you. The HD regulations say that if you charge money (even indirectly) for people TO EAT FOOD, the full force of the HD regulations go into effect. The "cooking area", including your pit or pits MUST have a cover and be screened on all sides, your pass-through for serving must be screened. You must have the triple sink and a hand-washing sink,etc. :tsk:

BUT

If you DO NOT CHARGE for eating the food, NO REGULATIONS APPLY!!!! :wacko:

Non-mandatory donations to a charitable cause are not considered charging for food.

So this leaves me with the People's Choice for Smokin' Up A Storm as a donation only event. If I chose to do it this way, the serving and judging will be done inside a meeting hall and will be blind judging.

Nordy
08-24-2011, 02:38 PM
Charge for a "tasting kit" not for the food...

Already have the Norman comp on my calendar...

Nordy

Lake Dogs
08-24-2011, 02:43 PM
Can you charge a small/nominal entry fee to the gate and give them a ticket for peoples choice vote?

Matt_A
08-24-2011, 04:51 PM
I approached it several ways and basically any sort of entry fee or "tasting kit", "judging kit" that involves them having to pay for it in order to taste the q... is "vending" Only voluntary donations gets you out from under the regs. I think I can make it work as a "free" tasting/judging, I will have the full support of the Food Bank for signage & volunteer "docents" to encourage people to give.

Smokedelic
08-24-2011, 06:23 PM
There are plenty of contests in OK that do people's choice without any issues. I wouldn't try to re-invent the wheel. Talk to some other organizers who do it and find out what they do. The KCBS website would be a good place to start, or send me a PM and I can give you some contact names/numbers.

Smokin' Bad Habit
08-24-2011, 08:54 PM
norman oklahoma...whats the dates? kcbs?

Matt_A
08-24-2011, 10:27 PM
norman oklahoma...whats the dates? kcbs?

http://smokinupastorm.com (http://smokinupastorm.com/)

http://smokinupastorm.com/images/poster_002.png

House
08-25-2011, 07:51 AM
You should get into contact with the people who put on the Edmond contest this year. The health department was there but only checked on vendors - not teams doing tasters choice.

Matt_A
08-25-2011, 12:48 PM
You should get into contact with the people who put on the Edmond contest this year. The health department was there but only checked on vendors - not teams doing tasters choice.

Different county... our Cleveland County HD Inspector seems to be ultra-paranoid about these things. We had a Culture Jam at the Moore Public Library with food prep demonstrations, outside food vendors and free food in the Green Room for the performers and staff and she went over everything.

Besides, I really want to stay fully within the law so that there can be NO chance the HD will be able to shut us down.

I'll check with them to see how they did it.

Thanks!

Matt_A
08-30-2011, 06:22 AM
This article illustrates why I must find a legal way to do a People's Choice.

http://newsok.com/oklahoma-city-state-agencies-defend-sweep-of-midtown-outdoor-food-market/article/3599409?custom_click=headlines_widget

Butcher BBQ
08-30-2011, 06:41 AM
With all the folks that are paid to do tail gating in Norman ( and there are several that are business and some are bbq competitors) the laws are simpler than you may think. Go to Norman this weekend and look up some of those owners and ask. Look for a long black enclosed trailer.

Matt_A
08-30-2011, 11:16 AM
With all the folks that are paid to do tail gating in Norman ( and there are several that are business and some are bbq competitors) the laws are simpler than you may think. Go to Norman this weekend and look up some of those owners and ask. Look for a long black enclosed trailer.

Thanks for the response, but I can't drive to OU this weekend, it's a long drive from Bedfprd TX... :o)

Jeff Hughes
08-30-2011, 05:57 PM
I agree with David and Mike. These things are done all over the state. Basically people buy a frisbee or a plate from your non profit, and teams give away sample quanities(of pork or brisket you provide).

Aren't Cleveland County food inspections handled by the state?

OKC has their own inspectors. I'm pretty sure Tulsa and Muskogee are the only two counties that do as well. I think the rest are handled by the state.

Matt_A
08-30-2011, 06:56 PM
I agree with David and Mike. These things are done all over the state. Basically people buy a frisbee or a plate from your non profit, and teams give away sample quanities(of pork or brisket you provide).

Aren't Cleveland County food inspections handled by the state?

OKC has their own inspectors. I'm pretty sure Tulsa and Muskogee are the only two counties that do as well. I think the rest are handled by the state.

Cleveland County does have its own inspectors.

Matt_A
08-30-2011, 06:57 PM
http://smokinupastorm.com (http://smokinupastorm.com/)



Dates have changed to July 13th & 14th due to scheduling conflicts.

CivilWarBBQ
08-31-2011, 12:55 AM
This article illustrates why I must find a legal way to do a People's Choice.

http://newsok.com/oklahoma-city-state-agencies-defend-sweep-of-midtown-outdoor-food-market/article/3599409?custom_click=headlines_widget


Wow - those people were fools. Going forward after asking permission and being denied pretty much guarantees a heavy-handed response. They would have been better off not asking for the permit in the first place.

Matt_A
08-31-2011, 10:48 PM
You should get into contact with the people who put on the Edmond contest this year. The health department was there but only checked on vendors - not teams doing tasters choice.

I have checked with other organizers in Oklahoma, results still coming in, but I've been asked not to discuss the answers in public.

So, the upshot is: since Cleveland County Health Depot. knows about this; I have to figure out how to make People's Choice work on a voluntary donation basis...

Jeff Hughes
09-01-2011, 07:30 AM
Forget peoples choice, let teams that can pass an HD inspection vend if they'd like to...

bigsapper
09-01-2011, 09:28 AM
Everyone gets free samples. (Donations accepted for supplied eating utensils)

Optionally, people can purchase a judging kit (ticket) for the People's Choice award.

Does that work?

Matt_A
09-01-2011, 04:36 PM
Everyone gets free samples. (Donations accepted for supplied eating utensils)

Optionally, people can purchase a judging kit (ticket) for the People's Choice award.

Does that work?

The sale of a "judging kit" is seen by HD as the same as charging for food, this makes it fall into the vending rules.

I'm working on ideas for a voluntary donation PC.

Matt_A
09-01-2011, 04:49 PM
Forget peoples choice, let teams that can pass an HD inspection vend if they'd like to...

Most teams don't have the necessary setup to satisfy the temporary food vending regs:

Surface Characteristics [310:257-11-1(b)]:
(1)If graded to drain, a floor may be concrete, machine-laid asphalt, or dirt or gravel if it is covered with mats, removable platforms, duckboards, or other suitable approved materials that are effectively treated to control dust and mud; and (2) Walls and ceilings may be constructed of a material that protects the interior from the weather and windblown dust and debris.

Outer Openings Protected [310:257-11-15]:
…openings shall be protected against the entry of insects and rodents by:
(1) 16 mesh to 25.4mm (16 mesh to 1 inch) screens; (2) Properly designed and installed air curtains to control flying insects; or (3) Other effective means.

Jeff Hughes
09-01-2011, 06:34 PM
No doubt "most teams" are not set up to vend. But, many are. You will find that you can attract vending capable out of state teams that would not normally attend your contest, as well and many from around the state. Very few comps in this part of the country provide vending opportunities for teams.

I'm not sure if anyone has told you, but teams very much dislike participating in peoples choice. It's a major pain in the ass.

If you have teams vend, those are capable to can, and everybody else can just cook.

On major problem that's common with pc is running out of food while taster kits are being sold. Bixby and AOB have this problem every year.

There are many aspects to running a successful contest that are more important than peoples choice.

Matt_A
09-01-2011, 06:39 PM
No doubt "most teams" are not set up to vend. But, many are. You will find that you can attract vending capable out of state teams that would not normally attend your contest, as well and many from around the state.

I'm considering it. One question, do they expect to pay more so they can vend?


I'm not sure if anyone has told you, but teams very much dislike participating in peoples choice. It's a major pain in the ass.


Actually, I've had lots of teams tell me they have no problem with people's choice comps. They like them best when they can cook the meat and have it served by others, elsewhere, in a blind judging.

Smoke'n Ice
09-01-2011, 06:57 PM
Actually, sell all participatant a frisbee (value received for value given). They then can sample as many teams who are participating as they like who are willing to give them food (it may be because they like the color of the fisbee). In order to vote for their favorite team who gave them a sample, they can put a dollar bill (have someone with change in the area) in the jar or jars (with team names of course) of their choice which are located in a central area (the only way out) with shills (in short skirts, male or female) to solicit votes.

The only thing being sold are frisbees; food is being given away; votes are voluntary donations.

Teams (who are participating) could say I sorry, I'm only giving samples to people who have something that say "Feed Me Leroy" or some such nonsence. If the person showed up with a printed piece of paper with the phrase, then the team would give them a sample on the paper of course.

Just some devious ideas

Matt_A
09-01-2011, 07:06 PM
Actually, sell all participatant a frisbee (value received for value given). They then can sample as many teams who are participating as they like who are willing to give them food (it may be because they like the color of the fisbee). In order to vote for their favorite team who gave them a sample, they can put a dollar bill (have someone with change in the area) in the jar or jars (with team names of course) of their choice which are located in a central area (the only way out) with shills (in short skirts, male or female) to solicit votes.

The only thing being sold are frisbees; food is being given away; votes are voluntary donations.

Teams (who are participating) could say I sorry, I'm only giving samples to people who have something that say "Feed Me Leroy" or some such nonsence. If the person showed up with a printed piece of paper with the phrase, then the team would give them a sample on the paper of course.

Just some devious ideas

Interesting idea... I'll have to think about it.

"shills (in short skirts, male or female)" You prolly won't find too many guys wearin' skirts in these here parts! :heh: Unless you're a Scot (like me) and wear a kilt! :boxing:

Jeff Hughes
09-01-2011, 07:11 PM
Come to Art of BBQ. I'll introduce you to the guys that cook comps on a regular basis. I promise you that they could care less about peoples choice. They'll cook a brisket or two for you if they like the contest, but somebody else better serve it somewhere besides their site. And typically, they don't want the credit.

Local BBQ joints are into peoples choice. Jakes Place in Bixby is a perfect example. He cooks at least 150 lbs os brisket so he can win PC every year. It's a huge marketing tool for him. Local banks are way into PC also.

I would not expect vending teams to pay extra in a first year comp. They are taking a large risk by committing to vend, and you have no attendance track record. If I were vending, I would expect to turn over a percentage of my sales though. Sell bbq bucks to the public, and require vendors to only exchange food for bbq bucks. Then cut your vendors a check for .90/1 bbq buck at the end of the event. Let your vendors sell soda and water. You should only sell beer.