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View Full Version : No more comment cards?


QN
08-09-2011, 07:50 AM
On the agenda for the upcoming KCBS board meeting; "After discussions between the Rules and Rep Committees, both committees decided that a motion be made to have comment cards discontinued."

Arlin_MacRae
08-09-2011, 07:56 AM
Hmm, I hadn't heard that yet. Any idea why?

Big George's BBQ
08-09-2011, 07:59 AM
I have never had a comment card. I do think they are a good idea. Would love to know why I received some of my scores

QN
08-09-2011, 08:12 AM
Hmm, I hadn't heard that yet. Any idea why?

My guess is that they are not being used very much and the ones that are being filled out don't provide much helpful information to the teams (at least a lot of the ones I have seen). They have always been optional and a lot of judges just don't want to take the time to fill them out.

bover
08-09-2011, 08:21 AM
That's pretty disappointing. If anything, I'd rather see it go the other way. Either start encouraging the use more or even make them mandatory. I really don't see the benefit of discontinuing them at all.

tigerpaw
08-09-2011, 08:41 AM
I feel they should continue to be used. Might answer why one judges score was off. Recent event I judged I got a rib with no meat on it. One side was all bone, other was charred badly. Everyone else at table gave scores of 8's with a few 9's. I asked for card, filled it out and gave to table capt. Then showed him rib I had. He thought I was generous with the score I did give.


I do agree it does not make any sense to fill one out on a score of 7 or 8 or 9. But 5 and below, I believe should always be given a comment. And not - "worse chiken/rib/pork/brisket I have ever tasted" but constuctive - Too much sauce overpowered meat taste, too dry, too spicy and killed taste, etc.

Disconnect
08-09-2011, 08:49 AM
We're going into our first comp in a few weeks, and if I don't get comments I'm going to be -very- disappointed. I'm not expecting recipes but - as tigerpaw said - simple notes about what the judges want vs what I provided... How else do you break out of 6s? Its a little expensive to just keep making random changes trying to blindly guess what they wanted.. (Sure, if its tough and you get a 3-4 in tenderness, thats easy.. but what do you do about a 4 in flavor?)

Warthog
08-09-2011, 08:53 AM
I always will fill out a comment card for a score of 5 or below. Only problem it is not very often that I would give a score that low.

DawgPhan
08-09-2011, 08:56 AM
We're going into our first comp in a few weeks, and if I don't get comments I'm going to be -very- disappointed. I'm not expecting recipes but - as tigerpaw said - simple notes about what the judges want vs what I provided... How else do you break out of 6s? Its a little expensive to just keep making random changes trying to blindly guess what they wanted.. (Sure, if its tough and you get a 3-4 in tenderness, thats easy.. but what do you do about a 4 in flavor?)


You are probably going to be very disappointed then. Comments cards very work that way.

Last weekend we got 3 comment cards, all for chicken. We knew the chicken was too spicy. 1 card was too spicy, 1 card was too dry, 1 card was chicken was perfect. Basically Goldilocks comments.

We didnt get a comment card for a pork score that was 8-5-6 on a box of pork that was called and was the same pork as the people's choice winner.

Unless that judge ate a piece of the box with some parsley on it, no way did anything in that pork box deserve a 5 in taste or a 6 in tenderness and of course no card to go with that 5.

Lake Dogs
08-09-2011, 09:10 AM
Personally, I'd like to know why 7's or below. Whether it's nonsense or not, that in itself is helpful. Heck, why not even have check boxes; 99% would fit in that. For taste it could be: Too salty, too sweet, too spicy, bland, tasted bad, etc.

Jacked UP BBQ
08-09-2011, 09:29 AM
We should either have them or not. I hate that they are optional

moocow
08-09-2011, 09:49 AM
I would say 6 or lower deserves a comment card. These days a 6 might as well be a 2!

bbqbrad
08-09-2011, 10:23 AM
I've only had one experience with comment cards. I turned in a chicken that was done 4 minutes before turn in. Just barely got to temp. Comment card came back that it was overcooked. :shock:

Was at a comp a few weeks ago, and a rookie cook next to me got a few cards. And he deserved them. But the one for chicken said that he should turn in thighs, as that is what most people do (He did breasts). I didn't like that the judge had in their mind what to look for as far as style of chicken.

atvalaska
08-09-2011, 10:38 AM
I've only had one experience with comment cards. I turned in a chicken that was done 4 minutes before turn in. Just barely got to temp.******* Comment card came back that it was overcooked. :shock:*******

Was at a comp a few weeks ago, and a rookie cook next to me got a few cards. And he deserved them. But the one for chicken said that *********he should turn in thighs, as that is what most people do******* (He did breasts). I didn't like that the judge had in their mind what to look for as far as style of chicken. .............. man thats just plain wrong

Alexa RnQ
08-09-2011, 10:50 AM
I would be strongly against discontinuing comment cards. They are a valuable part of the judges' feedback. One of the things I love about KCBS is that the raw scores and the comment cards are valuable tools for cooks to continue to improve.

If the organization half-assed it making cards optional, then they shouldn't be surprised that some judges half-assed it by ignoring the cards. A clear policy that cards are required for a particular score or lower seems reasonable. If a judge is going to say that an entry was worse than average, he/she should be able to come up with a short description as to WHY it was worse than average -- salty, dry, tough, whatever -- or that judge isn't putting forth enough effort to deserve that seat.

Although some argue that many cards did not provide useful comments, I have to say that a grain of truth can be gleaned from many of even the seemingly ridiculous. Putting ego aside, that grain of truth is still in the food product, and needs to be addressed because it will one day meet another judge that it will strike similarly.

musicmanryann
08-09-2011, 10:50 AM
In this area, I have noticed an increase this year in comment cards. Personally, we have received 4 or 5 this year, and only one prior to this year. The most interesting thing is that three of the comments were from judges that gave us 8's or better and all of them have been what I would consider constructive in their praise and/or criticism.

Hub
08-09-2011, 12:24 PM
I heard the KCBS board is to consider eliminating comment cards. If this is true please consider one member's opinion that they are a very positive factor. I and some other judges try to complete one for every low score. However, there are times when one is seated at a late-served table that there isn't sufficient time to do one. As long as the cards are optional there will never be a huge response with them but I think the Reps do well in encouraging and explaining them.

INmitch
08-09-2011, 12:55 PM
I've only got one comment card this year. The card said that he/she thought the ck was perfectly cooked and loved the flavor. CBJ & gave 999. It was quite flattering.:icon_blush:
But I still think comment cards should be manditory for 6 n below.

AZScott
08-09-2011, 01:02 PM
I could really care one way or the other if they continue with the cards. Out of the 11 competitions we have done we have received two cards. One card was "mushy" which we knew since it was way over cooked and the other was not enough smoke on an entry that we had placed in the top 5. A single judges comment card will cause you to either evaluate your product or change it to suit one judges opinion. I'd much rather look at the judges scores to find out if my product needs improvement.

CBQ
08-09-2011, 01:10 PM
I hope they continue the comment cards. Was a reason given for the recommendation to drop them?

Sure, sometimes I have gotten comment cards that are not useful, or simply reflect the judge's lack of knowledge of KCBS judging criteria ("The meat was cold"), but I have also gotten comment cards that have been right on point and helped to improve our process and correct problems. I would like to see them used more, not less.

Fat Woody
08-09-2011, 01:47 PM
Just thinking out loud here, but why not have the table captain poll the judges after each category has been judged then summarize on a comment card? We might get a more even picture of how our entry was judged.

YellowSuge
08-09-2011, 01:53 PM
I like the concept of comment cards but, although not very likely, I would want the table captain (or someone) to review the cards to make sure they include constructive criticism or useful comments.

bover
08-09-2011, 02:07 PM
Just thinking out loud here, but why not have the table captain poll the judges after each category has been judged then summarize on a comment card? We might get a more even picture of how our entry was judged.

That's a really intriguing idea. I'd definitely recommend submitting it to the BoD for consideration.

ModelMaker
08-09-2011, 03:20 PM
I think it would be a mistake to stop now. I really use them as a tool to help explain a bad score. I started out giving cards for 6's but now only 5's or less (why give a card because your product is average).
The argument for requiring a card for a certain score is the same half assed people that won't go the extra inch will just not give that score, thus further inflating the norm.
They only take a minute to do, and I think they're worthwhile.
Ed

swamprb
08-09-2011, 03:45 PM
I always felt rushed with the half hour turn ins to really give subjective comment cards, and any I've received were not helpful.

PNWBA on the other hand, has 1 hour turn ins and the comment cards are welcome by the cooks and when I judge it makes me feel more accountable.

Bentley
08-09-2011, 04:19 PM
I started out giving cards for 6's but now only 5's or less (why give a card because your product is average).

The argument for requiring a card for a certain score is the same half assed people that won't go the extra inch will just not give that score, thus further inflating the norm.

Ed

I to do not find it nessesary to give a comment card unless it is a 5 or below. Whether that is good, bad or indifferent I do not know, but it is my policy as a CBJ. If your BBQ is average, I am sorry, but I am not able as a CBJ, in a card that provides me 3 small lines and a very short time frame to tell you how to correct that, you have to find that out on your own. But if I am going to say your BBQ is below average, I need to be able to articulate why it is in those 3 lines, or score it higher or step away from the judging tent for a few months or years untill I can.

I believe they should be mandatory on a score lower then a 6. If that makes the judge increase his score, so be it, if he is to lazy to give an accurate score for the team or unwilling to make the needed comment, the meat probably did not deserve the lower score he was going to give it anyway. In the last year, I am amazed at the amount of competitions I have been at, where a MCBJ will give a score below a 6 and not bothered filling out a comment card...I can expect that from someone who is new, but a Master? Unacceptable...

I am sure that is flawed thinking, but most of my thinking is.

Rookie'48
08-09-2011, 04:36 PM
I feel that if I give you a six or lower that I'm saying that your food sucks. I think that I owe it to you to tell you why I think that it sucks. When I fill out a comment card I try to state what the problem is with that entry, something like "All I could taste was chili powder", "Pulled & chunks were good - mushy slices killed your score". I think that we should keep the comment cards.

Rookie'48
08-09-2011, 04:48 PM
With me, if I give you a 6 or lower you're gonna get a card. I think that I owe you an explanation of why I just killed your chances of winning this comp. On the mandatory thing I have mixed emotions. Saying you need to fill out a card for a 6 will basicly make this a three number scoring system for a lot of judges. Although the idea of the TC polling the table does have some interesting possibilities.

mfreeman73
08-09-2011, 05:22 PM
I think comment cards can be good if done properly. The reps usually tell you that they're mainly for scores of 5 or below. Even then, it's optional. It helps if they cards contain constructive criticism. The reps even try to explain this to the judges. But, unfortunately, some judges don't pay attention (they probably didn't pay attention during the CBJ class either) and they put out crappy comment cards.

At once recent contest, they were using judges as table captains (doing double duty for lack of table captains) and the table captain at our table was a fairly new judge (having completed the class a few months ago). At the end of the categories, this table captain/judge would carefully look through all of our scores and if this person saw a score of 5 or below, they would hand you a comment card and tell you that you need to fill out one for the low score you gave something. Never had something like this happen before. The way this person acted, you'd think they were a certified rep and the rest of us were brand new (we all had more experience than this person). Anyway, just got off on a rant. :P