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RedRyderBBQ
08-04-2011, 04:41 PM
Hey all,

I have my first competition coming up in a few months and have been experimenting with brisket. I used to do a traditional all purpose rub with paprika, brown sugar, chili powder, garlic, onion, cumin, salt, etc. but didn't like the sugar with the beef. I then tried the central texas esque salt/pepper method of brisket and I love it.

My question is then, can this simplicity of salt pepper, and some garlic powder without an injection be competitive in BBQ competitions?

jbrink01
08-04-2011, 04:53 PM
Hi Red,
Which contest you cooking? If it's close, I'll most likely be there. Yes, you can win without injecting. Use good beef and wrap it. As far as seasoning is concerned, 2 words. Bovine Bold.

indianagriller
08-04-2011, 05:06 PM
the beef rub i am using now is just about as simple, using the holy cow rub from Peace love and BBQ i added on ingredient that goes well with beef, Im pretty sure that with brisket most of your rub comes off during the cooking process and wrapping the key part is cooking it to the right tendernessi have found that there is a relationship between the two (taste & tenderness) if one score is high the other is high if one is low more than likely they are both low.

RedRyderBBQ
08-04-2011, 05:14 PM
Hi Red,
Which contest you cooking? If it's close, I'll most likely be there. Yes, you can win without injecting. Use good beef and wrap it. As far as seasoning is concerned, 2 words. Bovine Bold.

I am cooking in the Roots n blues festival in columbia, mo. Im a student at mizzou and have gone to the event the past 3 years for the music and have always wanted to enter into the bbq competition and this is the year!

I actually have a bottle of bovine bold. I haven't tried it on its own but I did use it for the spice rub. The main ingredient is salt, like on most rubs, so I tried to dilutte the salt with some paprika and chili powder. I'll have to try it with just bovine bold some time

RedRyderBBQ
08-04-2011, 05:16 PM
the beef rub i am using now is just about as simple, using the holy cow rub from Peace love and BBQ i added on ingredient that goes well with beef, Im pretty sure that with brisket most of your rub comes off during the cooking process and wrapping the key part is cooking it to the right tendernessi have found that there is a relationship between the two (taste & tenderness) if one score is high the other is high if one is low more than likely they are both low.

So do you add any liquid when you wrap? I would really like to try wrapping with butcher paper during the cooking process next time.

Ryan Chester
08-04-2011, 05:33 PM
You want salt, it makes the flavors pop. I don't know about the whole butcher paper thing. Aluminum foil with some liquid in the bottom will do you just fine.

Good luck.

RedRyderBBQ
08-04-2011, 05:48 PM
You want salt, it makes the flavors pop. I don't know about the whole butcher paper thing. Aluminum foil with some liquid in the bottom will do you just fine.

Good luck.

Yep, I just dilutted the salt for the spice rub. I let that sit overnight in the fridge. I didn't want a lot of salt because then I did a dry brine that morning. I put on a layer of kosher salt, lemon pepper, and then coarse pepper. I wanted the layer of kosher to pull the spice rub into the meat.

With the butcher paper, i wanted to try it because as i was reading it allows steam to escape and keeps the crust...crusty

Ryan Chester
08-04-2011, 06:05 PM
Not sure about all that either. Stick with your Bovine Bold, wrap with aluminum foil around 160-165 with some liquid in the bottom, and pull when your temp probe slides in like butter somewhere in the 195-200* range. Don't worry about the crusty crust.

jbrink01
08-04-2011, 06:44 PM
I think your making it harder than it has to be. IMHO.

RedRyderBBQ
08-04-2011, 06:55 PM
I think your making it harder than it has to be. IMHO.

I wouldn't doubt that. Still in experimenting phase so trying as much as I can. Next experiment will be bovine bold.

So people keep saying liquid.... are we talking au jus? some special concoction?

jbrink01
08-04-2011, 06:58 PM
Google "Ricks Sinful Marinade".

RedRyderBBQ
08-04-2011, 07:22 PM
Google "Ricks Sinful Marinade".

That looks good! will have to try that next time along with the foil.

azmark
08-04-2011, 07:32 PM
I don't do competitions but just throwing my own opinion out; a correctly cooked brisket does not need injections or rubbed down with a laundry list of spices. Salt, pepper, garlic salt and thats it for me.

boogiesnap
08-04-2011, 07:34 PM
donnie's brisket recipe/technique is excellent.

however, like jbrink said, your complicating things by adding to it.

i like butcher paper...sometimes.

although, i'd disagree about not injecting.

boogiesnap
08-04-2011, 07:35 PM
I don't do competitions but just throwing my own opinion out; a correctly cooked brisket does not need injections or rubbed down with a laundry list of spices. Salt, pepper, garlic salt and thats it for me.

agreed, but for competition, it's a competition.

the rules of what's good are different.

RedRyderBBQ
08-04-2011, 07:44 PM
donnie's brisket recipe/technique is excellent.

however, like jbrink said, your complicating things by adding to it.

i like butcher paper...sometimes.

although, i'd disagree about not injecting.

I was trying to follow his technique in his hot and fast brisket youtube video, and I thought he did a low salt spice rub before his tri-level rub. I wasn't trying to add to it merely replicate it to see how it turned out because the logic makes sense.

what times do you like and not like butcher paper?

boogiesnap
08-04-2011, 07:56 PM
but you didn't follow his recipe.

it is specifically engineered. you can't add, subtract, or substitute and expect the same results.

there's a heavy learning curve with brisket.

you CAN add, subtract, or substitute and get your own results, but not necessarily his, you may never.

but, what you do is up to you.

i don't know how much that helps.

but anyway, butcher paper doesn't allow for liquids to be added to the wrap. for me, this is quite necessary for most competition meats.

donnie is a superb cook, i'd say even chef.i've learned ALOT from him and consider his stuff some of the best of the best.

but, take what he has offered, and then you must apply competition parameters to be successful.

lastly, if you're using someone's technique, let it be known. we can help you better quicker.

RedRyderBBQ
08-04-2011, 08:18 PM
right, in the video he just said spice rub so didn't see a recipe for specifically which spices or amounts or what have you. So right off the bat I knew it wasn't going to be a replica of his recipe. My goal wasn't to get exactly his brisket, but merely improve. I have been using the same brisket recipe for 2 and a half years and got tired of it and wanted to change it up so did research and found donnies thread and videos and really liked the principal of just salt pepper and some spice.

I had no intention of getting it exact, wheres the fun in that. I made a brisket with his methodology (maybe i should say that instead of recipe) and really liked the results but wasn't sure if it would be what the judges would be looking for, which was the base of the thread. Since i have not competed or even tasted competition bbq, i have no idea I can only go in with what I like the best.

I appreciate all the feedback thus far.


but you didn't follow his recipe.

it is specifically engineered. you can't add, subtract, or substitute and expect the same results.

there's a heavy learning curve with brisket.

you CAN add, subtract, or substitute and get your own results, but not necessarily his, you may never.

but, what you do is up to you.

i don't know how much that helps.

but anyway, butcher paper doesn't allow for liquids to be added to the wrap. for me, this is quite necessary for most competition meats.

donnie is a superb cook, i'd say even chef.i've learned ALOT from him and consider his stuff some of the best of the best.

but, take what he has offered, and then you must apply competition parameters to be successful.

lastly, if you're using someone's technique, let it be known. we can help you better quicker.

boogiesnap
08-04-2011, 08:30 PM
very well written. now we're getting somewhere.

jbrink01
08-04-2011, 08:39 PM
although, i'd disagree about not injecting.

I think you CAN be competitive without it. BUT, I didn't say I went without...:icon_blush:

indianagriller
08-04-2011, 11:59 PM
So do you add any liquid when you wrap? I would really like to try wrapping with butcher paper during the cooking process next time.

No liquids

Crash
08-05-2011, 01:36 AM
You want salt, it makes the flavors pop. I don't know about the whole butcher paper thing. Aluminum foil with some liquid in the bottom will do you just fine.

Good luck.

What he said. ^^^

And like others have said......don't overthink it.

Add salt, screw the butcher paper, double wrap in HD Aluminum Foil and add moisture. Beef Broth works fine.

JS-TX
08-05-2011, 03:49 PM
I realize flavor profiles can be all over the place for comp. BBQ but I would caution on using too much beef broth. There's a fine line between brisket and pot roast. Use too much and it over powers the natural smoke flavor of brisket. The first couple of briskets I ever made I followed directions calling for beef broth. While I enjoyed the results it wasn't until I didn't use it that I appreciated the natural smoke flavor of brisket. If you are worried about moisture, use choice or better briskets, it makes a big difference so long as you don't over cook them.

Crash
08-05-2011, 04:24 PM
The first couple of briskets I ever made I followed directions calling for beef broth.

Maybe that was the problem....you followed directions. They're so over-rated.:-D

RedRyderBBQ
08-05-2011, 05:29 PM
No liquids

So you don't add any liquids when you wrap? have you tried it both ways and prefer no liquid?

RedRyderBBQ
08-05-2011, 05:31 PM
I realize flavor profiles can be all over the place for comp. BBQ but I would caution on using too much beef broth. There's a fine line between brisket and pot roast. Use too much and it over powers the natural smoke flavor of brisket. The first couple of briskets I ever made I followed directions calling for beef broth. While I enjoyed the results it wasn't until I didn't use it that I appreciated the natural smoke flavor of brisket. If you are worried about moisture, use choice or better briskets, it makes a big difference so long as you don't over cook them.

About how much do you add? Also do you do straight broth or something like the earlier posted rick's sinful marinade?

Southern Home Boy
08-06-2011, 01:29 AM
I don't inject, but I do spice up some beef broth with the same rub I use for the bark and add it to the foil when I wrap it. I've had my brisket take walks, but never paid, so take that for whatever it's worth.

JS-TX
08-15-2011, 03:04 PM
About how much do you add? Also do you do straight broth or something like the earlier posted rick's sinful marinade?

Haven't tried injecting brisket w/anything... yet. I remember using about half of a reg. sized can. Even at that amount it changes the brisket flavor a bit. I suppose it's ok if got a really dry brisket and no drippings to pour over it.

Big Mike
08-15-2011, 04:31 PM
So you don't add any liquids when you wrap? have you tried it both ways and prefer no liquid?


I have done both ways and have gotten calls both ways. Personally I prefer to not add liquids. If you wrap, you end up with enough juice anyways. At least I think so. If you are cooking a whole packer and want to add liquid, add about 1 cup when you wrap.

warfrat
08-15-2011, 09:36 PM
for what it's worth, I would spend more time focusing on a properly cooked brisket before worrying so much about the flavor profile. Once you get that nailed, then you can toy with different rubs. There are a lot of really good commerical rubs that don't need any modifications to score well with. I would suggest injecting for comps, just to get that extra "boost" of flavor, but that's just MHO. I've had some decent results with my comp brisket and I inject and use a commerical rub along with a commercial sauce. Remember that most competition food is not the same as what you would eat at home.