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Jeff_in_KC
08-03-2011, 04:53 PM
The following is OBR's Response on the KCBS Facebook page in regards to the article on the cover of the August Bullsheet. We are copying to the Brethren forum because we do not want anyone who wasn't in Joplin to have any reason to think that somehow OBR was not welcoming to anyone and everyone who volunteered:

After reading the August issue of the Bullsheet, I have to take issue with the cover article. An article pointing out any real or perceived rifts between judges and teams serves no one in a positive manner. But most appalling was the use of Operation BBQ Relief as a tool to help make the point. The quote by a judge was "I wanted to volunteer but you know how teams feel about judges. The author's ...nodding affirmation of that comment made it worse. Anything implying that OBR was somehow EXclusive rather than INclusive is unfair and simply WRONG. One of our most valuable volunteers was Richie Allen, a Master CBJ living in the area who even offered his home to volunteers. Unity, friendship and compassion were what we were all about in Joplin and, going forward, as OBR. ANYONE down there would say the same. As Executive Directors of OBR, Jeff, Stan and Will would prefer to not be dragged into the politics/issues of KCBS by using our organization as an example to make a negative point.
Jeff, Stan and Will

boogiesnap
08-03-2011, 06:00 PM
talk about making excuses not to lend a hand. i mean really?

did OBR have ANYTHING TO DO WITH COMPETITION BBQ????

and for someone to agree?? c'mon man.

sad to read such a massive collaboration of people helping others get demeaned like that.

Smoke'n Ice
08-03-2011, 08:18 PM
IMHO, judges and cooks get along quite well. I count more than one as friends and share a beer or two when rules permit. To lead a front page article with such a divisive statement in the context it was presented does a great disservice to both cooks and judges and is not something that I wish to see in the Bullsheet or from the office staff of KCBS that my dollars and participation support.

Is it possible to print a retraction and send it out ASAP to the same mailing list? I know we can’t stuff this particular genie back into the bottle but maybe the damage it will do can be mitigated!!!

Mack Yarbrough
Smoke’n Ice
Mbr Number 24882
CBJ Number 5618

TooSaucedToPork
08-03-2011, 09:28 PM
If KCBS isn't careful, they are gonna end up like the old MIM BBQ organization. Politics split that puppy apart like an egg

Just Smokin' Around
08-03-2011, 10:20 PM
I received my Bullsheet today and read the front page and was thinking WTF... Yes, I do complain about judges at times, and they probably complain about my food at times. That happens in ANY competition, BBQ, Ice skating or whatever. But, I'm always friendly and talk to them after the judging is complete. I have judged a few contest and have gotten to know some of the regulars. We're on friendly terms. I've seen them come and help at a local charity event we have to cook 250 pork butts for the D.C. food bank. They were welcome with open arms and I'm sure they would've been welcome at this OBR event in Joplin. All I can say is WOW! what were the folks at KCBS thinking when they put this on the FRONT PAGE. :crazy:

BTW - I think they owe the folks that organized the Joplin OBR event and apology for bringing them into this. Most all BBQ folks are good people, always willing to help a neighbor ... both judges and cooks.

barnburner
08-04-2011, 11:23 AM
As stated in another forum, I was thrilled to meet so many GREAT cooks and even BETTER people. I was humbled by the outpouring of support (cooks) that came to Joplin to help with the relief efforts. Many, I did not know before, and all of them I call my friend now. I did not understand or agree with that article in the bullsheet as well.

Richie Allen

Sledneck
08-04-2011, 11:26 AM
I reread the first post by Jeff a few times and still have non clue what this is all about. Maybe some backstory? BBQ cliff notes?

riblette
08-04-2011, 11:41 AM
It’s a shame a private conversation between two people ended up being the cover story for KCBS; I believe Dawn’s sample size may be a little small. Do these folks seek out controversy? There may be a few problems KCBS needs to resolve but I’m not sure judge/cook feuds is one of them. (“Oh, no! My house is on fire…I better call a tow truck!”)

We have only cooked in California and, say what you will about us, I have seen nothing remotely resembling the conflicts mentioned in the article.

bover
08-04-2011, 11:49 AM
Yet another example of how out-of-touch not only the KCBS BoD is but also the editors of the Bullsheet are. What a load of garbage, and it's especially shameful that an outstanding organization such as OBR was dragged in to it. A retraction and apology are definitely in order.

Jeff_in_KC
08-04-2011, 02:22 PM
Sled, if you don't have the Bullsheet, the article in question was about how judges and teams don't get along (news to me). It opened with the following:

"I recently had an interesting conversation with a good friend who is also a judge. We were talking about Joplin and the cookers who had gone down to help out. Casually he said "I wanted to volunteer, but you know how teams feel about judges." I just nodded in agreement, but I couldn't get the comment out of my head. Why is there so much animosity between the teams and the judges?"

The article then goes on to discuss this supposed "issue". There are two things about this that bother me -

1. The fact that Operation BBQ Relief was used as an example for this story. If there really is such a problem, surely there are other examples that could have been used rather than including OBR in the mess. We welcomed anyone to Joplin! BBQ Cooks, judges, KCBS office staff, Farmers Insurance and other sponsors, local residents who needed to help, chefs who don't even compete but wanted to volunteer, etc. Everyone was welcome and appreciated for their efforts. In such a time of dire circumstances, we are not cooks, judges, etc - we are compassionate human beings helping people who are in need. I would like to know why this judge in the article did not contact one of us. Why not check to see what the "attitude" would be before just assuming? And to include OBR when there was no effort made to interview any of us to write a positive article about it made it extra stinging.

2. That this article appeared at all, especially on the cover of the Bullsheet. The topic does nothing to serve anyone in a positive manner. I know many teams, including myself, who have been unhappy with scores but I've found that 80% of the time, scores are probably right where they should have been whether I'm happy about it or not. And I've also been vocal about taking home food too. But as long as a fair sampling is tasted, I'm good with it. When I judged a contest a few years ago, I saw a husband/wife team of judges at North Kansas City, MO who were taking such little nibbles of food that they could not possibly have determined a fair score. And their discussion between categories annoyed me! It was all about what they could take home in their coolers! BUT... that's not the norm I have since learned. Most judges take their jobs pretty seriously. If there really is a problem, maybe KCBS should investigate ways to improve the situation rather than tossing gas on the fire with such an article. I have a great answer - Put Dave Compton (Rookie48 ) in charge of a task force to look into it. Dave is everyone's favorite judge. Why? Because he comes down on Fridays and visits with the teams... shares smoked cheese, joins cooks in an adult beverage or two and shares feedback about what he's seeing and likes/dislikes. Maybe if other judges who feel there is a rift would do similar, they'd find that there really isn't a big problem between judges and cooks afterall.

rookiedad
08-05-2011, 10:35 AM
at the last big soccer event there was alot of unfair calls, when brought to the person in charge he said all calls would stand because "controversy breeds interest" or something to that effect. while the call itself is negative for the player, it is ultimately good for the sport as a whole, from the perspective of drawing attention to itself, and thus benefits the player. i agree that a charity event was not the best place to let such negativity roll and i am not implying that it was used as a tool to gain attention, but as this sport grows and draws more folks into it flom the edges, i think more of the same cam be expected. IMHO

bover
08-05-2011, 12:09 PM
I finally just read the whole article. I respect Dawn and all, but I can't believe how off base she is on some of the statements regarding both judges and competitors. I'll definitely be dropping an email outlining my concern and frustration. Seems to me like this "CBJ PR" attempt is doing more to perpetuate problems than solve them (if they even exist in the first place).

Rookie'48
08-07-2011, 11:22 PM
I finally re-read the article :mad2:. I'm kinda wondering WTF she's talking about :confused:. I've been involved with compitition BBQ for about 7 years & have been a KCBS CBJ for 5 1/2 years. I've probably judged 55 to 60 contests and have NEVER seen this so-called "animosity" that is in this article!
Yeah, there are some (very few) cooks who just plain don't like judges. And there are some (very few) judges who are there only to fill a cooler. Both are in the distinct minority (and should get out of the sport!).
At almost any contest that I go to I know about 25 to 30% of the teams there, some I know very well, some less so. I like to come out on Friday evening & visit with the teams. Very seldom, if ever, has a team acted in an unfreindly manner when they found out that I was judging the next day. Most teams that I talked to have said that they would welcome a judge into their camp on Friday evening - hell, the teams want to know what the judges want turned in the next day!
There seems to be a disconnect between the cooks and the judges in that the only times that they see each other is on Saturday morning while the judges are walking to the "tent", then the judges leave before the awards because they don't have an intrest in who wins. A lot of judges, I mean a LOT, have never been to a comp on Friday evening or know anyone on a cooking team. Sometimes they think that they're not allowed to talk to the teams at all, sometimes they are just shy. I have personally introduced about 5 or 6 judges to cook teams so that they could get their Master CBJ because the judges don't know any teams.
The way to solve a lot of this BS is for judges to come out to a contest on Friday evening, walk up to a team and say something like: " Hey, how are ya? I'm going to be judging tomorrow and I'd like to find out what goes on on this side of the turn-in table." Most of the teams will invite said judge in, give him/her a seat, offer a beverage, maybe something to eat and start trying to pick the judge's brain on what the judges like.
Teams can't go to the judges. Judges have to go to the teams. Most of the teams don't bite :becky:.

sharks_guy
08-08-2011, 12:15 AM
Dave,
I agree with you 100%. It was a pleasure finally meeting you in Raytown, and I believe that more judges should try and be present, when possible, on Friday nights if they want to do so.

I think any judge who wants to immerse themselves in competition BBQ should do exactly what you are doing. Come out on Friday, have a cool refreshing beverage, and really learn what BBQ is about. (Friendship, commraderie, and a bit of competition) It pained me to read that someone felt alienated as a judge. Sad....

So officially let me say to all judges (and heck, anyone who wants more info on BBQ). If you ever want to come out, hang out and have fun, post a message on this forum or any other BBQ forum and ask if you can come out. The teams that love BBQ will respond postively. If you are not comfortable with that, and you are local, connect with me on FB, post me a message, and I will throw some extra pork on the cooker on Friday night at whatever contest I am at.

Good luck to all.
DanD

I finally re-read the article :mad2:. I'm kinda wondering WTF she's talking about :confused:. I've been involved with compitition BBQ for about 7 years & have been a KCBS CBJ for 5 1/2 years. I've probably judged 55 to 60 contests and have NEVER seen this so-called "animosity" that is in this article!
Yeah, there are some (very few) cooks who just plain don't like judges. And there are some (very few) judges who are there only to fill a cooler. Both are in the distinct minority (and should get out of the sport!).
At almost any contest that I go to I know about 25 to 30% of the teams there, some I know very well, some less so. I like to come out on Friday evening & visit with the teams. Very seldom, if ever, has a team acted in an unfreindly manner when they found out that I was judging the next day. Most teams that I talked to have said that they would welcome a judge into their camp on Friday evening - hell, the teams want to know what the judges want turned in the next day!
There seems to be a disconnect between the cooks and the judges in that the only times that they see each other is on Saturday morning while the judges are walking to the "tent", then the judges leave before the awards because they don't have an intrest in who wins. A lot of judges, I mean a LOT, have never been to a comp on Friday evening or know anyone on a cooking team. Sometimes they think that they're not allowed to talk to the teams at all, sometimes they are just shy. I have personally introduced about 5 or 6 judges to cook teams so that they could get their Master CBJ because the judges don't know any teams.
The way to solve a lot of this BS is for judges to come out to a contest on Friday evening, walk up to a team and say something like: " Hey, how are ya? I'm going to be judging tomorrow and I'd like to find out what goes on on this side of the turn-in table." Most of the teams will invite said judge in, give him/her a seat, offer a beverage, maybe something to eat and start trying to pick the judge's brain on what the judges like.
Teams can't go to the judges. Judges have to go to the teams. Most of the teams don't bite :becky:.

Crash
08-08-2011, 01:11 AM
Dave, that was probably one of the best posts that I have ever read in this forum. 100% agreed.

bover
08-08-2011, 10:33 AM
You nailed it again Dave. Seems to me like the author of that article is terribly out of touch and will ultimately end up making a mountain out of a molehill. It's really a shame that the BoD isn't reaching out to folks like you who really are great ambassadors for our sport/hobby/passion.

Jeff_in_KC
08-08-2011, 09:14 PM
Precisely why I said Dave is the man to make a difference! Compton for BOD??

Just Pulin' Pork
08-08-2011, 10:33 PM
El Jefe and El Davo 2012! I can see it now!:-D

bbqbull
08-08-2011, 11:04 PM
Thank you for your awesome response my friend Dave!
I have known Dave Compton for 2 years now.
Met this fella at the American Royal in 2009, we had the time of our lives bullchitting and sipping on that fine Iowa juice. We had dinner together and sat together during awards last year at the Royal.

Dave Compton is my hope and prayers if he decides to run for the board on the KCBS. He is a no nonsense and no bullchit whatsoever.

Big George's BBQ
08-09-2011, 08:57 AM
I have to agree. The judges that I have met and also fellow competitors have all been receptive and nice. I had a person who was going after his mater judge with me at Dover. He was very pleasant. Thought our food and presentations were excellent. Unfortuneately the people judging the comp did not see it that way

Sticks-n-chicks
08-09-2011, 09:12 AM
very well said, I am total agreement with you. We have had 2 judges working on thier master cert cook with us and it was great hearing there thoughts and sharing their perspectives on q'n.


I finally re-read the article :mad2:. I'm kinda wondering WTF she's talking about :confused:. I've been involved with compitition BBQ for about 7 years & have been a KCBS CBJ for 5 1/2 years. I've probably judged 55 to 60 contests and have NEVER seen this so-called "animosity" that is in this article!
Yeah, there are some (very few) cooks who just plain don't like judges. And there are some (very few) judges who are there only to fill a cooler. Both are in the distinct minority (and should get out of the sport!).
At almost any contest that I go to I know about 25 to 30% of the teams there, some I know very well, some less so. I like to come out on Friday evening & visit with the teams. Very seldom, if ever, has a team acted in an unfreindly manner when they found out that I was judging the next day. Most teams that I talked to have said that they would welcome a judge into their camp on Friday evening - hell, the teams want to know what the judges want turned in the next day!
There seems to be a disconnect between the cooks and the judges in that the only times that they see each other is on Saturday morning while the judges are walking to the "tent", then the judges leave before the awards because they don't have an intrest in who wins. A lot of judges, I mean a LOT, have never been to a comp on Friday evening or know anyone on a cooking team. Sometimes they think that they're not allowed to talk to the teams at all, sometimes they are just shy. I have personally introduced about 5 or 6 judges to cook teams so that they could get their Master CBJ because the judges don't know any teams.
The way to solve a lot of this BS is for judges to come out to a contest on Friday evening, walk up to a team and say something like: " Hey, how are ya? I'm going to be judging tomorrow and I'd like to find out what goes on on this side of the turn-in table." Most of the teams will invite said judge in, give him/her a seat, offer a beverage, maybe something to eat and start trying to pick the judge's brain on what the judges like.
Teams can't go to the judges. Judges have to go to the teams. Most of the teams don't bite :becky:.

bover
08-09-2011, 09:24 AM
Precisely why I said Dave is the man to make a difference! Compton for BOD??

Heck yeah. I'd vote early and often for that!

Scottie
08-09-2011, 12:01 PM
I've never realized there was animosity either. I get around a little too. Dont get me wrong. I enjoy poking fun at the coolers, but i truly believe that the informed judges know where us cooks are coming from with our views on coolers. Just take good bites!!!!:becky:

moocow
08-09-2011, 10:42 PM
Dave is a Master Judge so its OK to like him because he different from the bad ones! :-P I guess I never noticed a rift between cooks and judges. Most cooks I know including myself are judges to so I guess I don't like Myself. We had a judge cook with us this year for his Master and it was a great experience for both of us. I would welcome one in our camp anytime.