Pleasing my wife. ---- Fire Managment.

[Hoorenga]

I'm liking this group. Kind of scarry how friendly people are. Maby it's just a ploy to lure unsuspecting people in and then when they arn't looking take all their stuff? What ever. I'm enjoying it. So on to the subject: Recently I took some advice from my fellow BBQ ers and cut down on the amount of smoke I use. My smoker used to look like a pre emissionis control, industrial smoke stack. I have cut down the amount of smoking wood that I use by one fourth. The wifeie likes it! Previously she wasn't too excited about my Q. That got me to revisiting the smoke thing and just how much is too much. I read in one FAQ that you just want a bare wisp of smoke coming out of your stack. Reading another article by an experienced smoker, he says that there shouldn't be any visable smoke because the visiable portion is not where the flavor is, in fact he says it is just the opposite. The visiable part of the smok will give it a bitter taste. He recomends pre starting the coals and wood untill everything is well ignited and then puting it in your fire box. I do that with my briquets but not with my wood chunks that I use for the smoke. Should I be starting the wood chunks as well outside of the smoker? And should I be seeing any smoke coming out of my stack? We are talking briquette fired smoker with natural wood chunks for flavor. Right now I soak the wood for an hour or so prior to tossing it on the fire. The wood goes in cold and wet right on top of the pre started briquetts. I only use a couple of fist size chunks per session.

[Jorge]

I think the consensus here will be to quit soaking the chunks, and preheat them. What you are looking for is the cleanest burn possible. Make sure the would is seasoned, meaning dried out and not fresh cut. If the wood is fresh ou are burning all of the resin and water in the wood. You just want to burn the wood for the flavor and heat is a bonus if you burn briquets as well. The info on not seeing any smoke is dead on. It's often referred to as 'thin blue' or something similar. It will make a world of difference. Take a look at the Roadmap section at the top of this forum and it should contain some good info on fire management.

[Solidkick]

I agree with Jorge.....preheating the wood adds to instant ignition when introduced to the fire, thus reducing the chances for bad smoke.
If the wood is old, moldy, or wet are circumstances that will produce a bad smoke even if you have preheated it.

Now, to do a 180 on you, if I'm using the electric smoker, then I DO soak my wood so that it retards ignition and doesn't burn up too quickly.

As far as the briquettes, When I'm not using a charcoal basket, I add 6 or 8 unlit at a time to help maintain a coal bed. If I'm about to loose my coal bed all together, then I'll add a chimney of lit coal.

If I'm using a charcoal basket, I will divide into 3 chambers, fire up the first chamber with a chimney of lit coals, add unlit on top, then 2 hours in, add unlit into the 2nd chamber, then 2 hours later, add unlit to the 3rd chamber.

[G$]

DItto Ditto what has been replied already by Jorge and Mr. Kick. Read the fire control stuff in the road map as well if you have not.

I have been using charcoal or lump, with preheated chunk for smoke. Since I have a relatively big fire grate, I also stage a lot of coal or lump IN the firebox, away from the burning coal bed. I rake it on as needed or let it slowly ignite after heating if I am approaching the end of the smoke.

Those who have baskets almost always swear by them, and I can not disagree since i have no experience with them.....but I sorta wonder if I am not just replicating the same concept with the additional basket. Never have been sure what the magic of the divided basket is.

[Solidkick]

I also stage a lot of coal or lump IN the firebox, away from the burning coal bed. I rake it on as needed or let it slowly ignite after heating if I am approaching the end of the smoke.

but I sorta wonder if I am not just replicating the same concept with the additional basket.


Yep, you are..........the method you use was the one taught to me by ChiBill (Billinois AKA Willkat98) and works very well.

In theory, you should be able to load all chambers of a charcoal basket at the same time and they ignite throughout the cook. This they do, but not necessarily in the timing YOU want, thus you can have all 3 chambers glowing red hot at the same time and an uncontrollable heat source.
That's why I space out the timing of when I load the second and third chambers, it put's me in control.

[chad]

There are different thoughts on the dividers - some have a dead air space between solid divider walls and this will cause a truer "serpentine" or timed burn. Other dividers are out of expanded metal but allow enough seperation that all the charcoal doesn't go up at the same time.

The small charcoal basket in my NB horizontal has no divider and I have to do a mini-Minion start up - then I add charcoal and wood chunks to the basket as needed - in this case the basket just helps keep the charcoal from spreading out all over the firebox and I believe it is just more efficient.

I'm having a charcoal basket built for my new rotisserie smoker - 1. to allow the use of charcoal (the firebox was originally designed for all wood) and 2. to allow a controlled ignition of the charcoal over a longer period of time (kind of the Minion method for larger cookers!)

[BBQchef33]

Definately STOP wetting the wood!!!

Just in case... i'll explain preheated wood everyones talking about. .. Its not preburning.... It is putting the wood on top of a the firebox to heat up(sometimes it may ignite), but you only want o tmake the wood hot and DRY any surface moisture. Preheating allows it to ignite immediatley upon contact with the hot coal bed. This eliminates the white smoke which leaves a resin/creosote on the food. You should see nothing but clear bluish heat coming out of the stack.. a wobbly disturbance in the air. Thats what we consider "sweet blue" and thats where the clean flavor is. That white billowing smoke gives the food the bitterness we dont want.

Preburning is burning the logs in as seperate firebox, reducing to hot coals and then and loading only the hot coals into your smoker. Instead of going that far, as long as you maintain a good coal bed, and preheat the wood, spontaneous combusion will ensure a clean burn. preburning isnt necessary. Save that for huge pits using huge logs.

The white smoke is a byproduct of incomplete combustion. Caused by wet unseasoned wood, or a fire without enough air. Control temperatures with fire size and fuel load, not the dampers if you can help it. Ideally, you would want a fire to maintain your temps with the dampers wide open. Always leave the chimney wide open, but sometimes you may have to close the firebox damper a little to get a big blaze under control. Try to never close the damper any more than halfway.. it chokes the fire and that makes bad smoke. If you have to, try other ways to control too much heat, like moving the fire or some of it away from the opening to the chamber or by seperating the logs from the coal beds.... or just remove some fuel, but dont choke the fire.

Fire managment is part of the art..and most of the fun and challenge. Thats what seperates your smoker from your kitchen oven.

[Solidkick]

I'm thinking this is going to be added to the Roadmap......... :lol:

[scottm4300]

Wow - what a great thread!!!!

[willkat98]

I'm liking this group. Kind of scarry how friendly people are. Maby it's just a ploy to lure unsuspecting people in and then when they arn't looking take all their stuff? What ever. I'm enjoying it. .

You havent started here yet.

Give your addy to Phil, Greg, or myself ( the non moderator mod) and you might just receive something.

A christmas card,

A couple pounds of Jalepeno peanuts,

a Mr Potato head doll.

You never know

What is the cost of this friendship?

The price you pay is to stick around, post what you feel, and stick around long enough to make friends for life

Not a bad trade off

[jgh1204]

ONLY ON THIS BOARD! Does pleasing your wife have to do with the amount of smoke. But, I must admit, my wife likes the milder smoke from Apple.

[jgh1204]

So, to add, what ya'll are saying, it is not the size of your log that counts, but how you use it.

[parrothead]

Give your addy to Phil, Greg, or myself

I second that. Stuff will happen.

[Hoorenga]

I'm in the presence of masters! Thank you all for the great tips. I can hardly wait to apply all that I have learned here to my next batch. This reminds me of learning to make beer. It took me thirty years to get past all of the crap that people were putting out as "good brewing techniques". It is amazing how much missinformation there is floating around. At least with the advent of the Internet we can shoot it down as soon as it pops up.

[Kevin]

What a great group. I've read a lot of posts but this is my first reply. My bride said the food I cooked was too smoky. Been doing it this way for years. After following the advice of you fellows and using a cleaner burn with less smoke, my family actualy likes my Q. Did a turkey and a pork butt for easter and it disapeared in record time. Thanks for allowing me in.

[Jorge]

What a great group. I've read a lot of posts but this is my first reply. My bride said the food I cooked was too smoky. Been doing it this way for years. After following the advice of you fellows and using a cleaner burn with less smoke, my family actualy likes my Q. Did a turkey and a pork butt for easter and it disapeared in record time. Thanks for allowing me in.

Thanks for posting Kevin. If you've been lurking you know the drill. Head to Cattle Call and introduce yourself so you can get a proper welcome.

[BigBelly]

Gotta love that "sweet blue"!

[mrkkti]

Looks like I got to this thread late, everything has been said, almost...

You said you cut back on your "smoking" wood...That would be the stuff you soaked I guess...

I don't think you can use too much good seasoned wood, I am a total "stick" burner myself, my fire and coal bed is nothing but wood (oak), I have used the addition of charcoal once (it was a little cold, and the good folks in this fourm suggested it to help maintain fire control...and they were right!)...

I read somewhere (was it on this fourm?) that the food will only "take" smoke for about three hours, after that it doesn't make the food any smokier, but, I usually tinfoil my stuff after three hours or so anyway, so it doesn't get any smoke after that any how... My point is don't confuse bad smoke taste with using too much wood...bad smoke comes from not pre-heating the wood, poor fire control and not using good wood in the first place. I call it a "bad burn".

Disclaimer: Different woods do impart different flavors, so you could get a smoke flavor that taste "heavier" or not as good or what ever.

Oh, yea, (edit mod) I do home brew too, man that stuff is the best. My latest batch was Mead.

[jt]

I, too, burn more wood than charcoal. When I need more time away from the fire I do a modified Minion method in the Bandera but usually I burn sticks. I start with a chimney of lit charcoal for a coal base and then sticks the rest of the way. I preheat them on the firebox lid and add when necessary (every 30 minutes or so). I usually have my dampers wide open and control temps with how much wood I add. On long smokes I'll add some charcoal slowly to replenish the coal base.

[BBQchef33]

Except for when I use the WSM, I am a full stick burner too, so mrkkti is right on. Even with all wood you dont have to get all smoke. Always keep in mind, the smaller the fire the better, and just hot coal beds is best.

I have never heard the 3 hour concept where smoke wont get in after that, but i have heard the 140 degree theory. Once the meat reaches 140, it wont absorb any more smoke. Dont know how much of either i believe. The only way i know for sure that it wont take on any more smoke is by either foiling it, or putting it in the oven. :)

Another way to reduce the amount of smoke getting to the meat is to use wet cheese cloth. I soak mine in a mixture of melted butter and applejiuce and cover the meat with it. Its still picks up a little smoke, and all the heat, but is allowed to breath instead of 'steaming' the way it does when you foil. Works great on whole birds and larger cuts.

Our FaQ section And File section has a 'Wood types" document that will give the flavor characteristics of various smoking woods.

[jminion]

Smokering will not continue to form after meat reaches 140 internal but that is not smoke being absorbed, it is a chemical reaction of the pigment in the meat. Reality is smoke is not absorbed but layed on meat. As long as smoke is present during the cook smoke flavor is layed on the meat.

[Mark]

Technically speaking Jim; smoke is ADsorbed; not ABsorbed since the meat does not undergo a phase change.

[jt]

Pleasing my wife. ---- Fire Managment.
I wish this was all it took :roll:

[BigBelly]

No doubt. b-)

[Bigmista]

Smokering will not continue to form after meat reaches 140 internal but that is not smoke being absorbed, it is a chemical reaction of the pigment in the meat. Reality is smoke is not absorbed but layed on meat. As long as smoke is present during the cook smoke flavor is layed on the meat.

Everyone keeps saying you were modified.

Did you get lasix eye surgery?

Bionic legs?

Kung-fu grip?

Oops! Sorry.

Wood. Smoke. Good.

[Mcockrell]

i have also been pre soaking my wood chunks and my wife says she didnt like the smoky taste...thanks for the tips i will now heat the wood on the firebox before adding to the fire in my chargriller

ok now what about wood chips should they be presoaked?
i also have a great outdoors smoky mountain that i use chips in

[Solidkick]

What a great group. I've read a lot of posts but this is my first reply. My bride said the food I cooked was too smoky. Been doing it this way for years. After following the advice of you fellows and using a cleaner burn with less smoke, my family actualy likes my Q. Did a turkey and a pork butt for easter and it disapeared in record time. Thanks for allowing me in.

Glad you posted!! If you want some "interesting" reading sometime, do a search back to some of Mr. Kick's first posts in Oct. 2003........You talk about a green horn!! I could cook the best "Brisket Discus" in the state of Missouri! In 6 months time these guys had me cooking like a champ, then in July 2004, the Belly Brothers entered their first KCBS cookoff.
We took 2nd in brisket and 3rd in pulled pork, using the knowledge gained here on the board.....No doubt about it, these guys can be very helpful!

[BBQchef33]

ok now what about wood chips should they be presoaked?
i also have a great outdoors smoky mountain that i use chips in



First.. Which is it that you mean? A "great outdoors Smoker" or a "Weber Smokey Mountain" ????

For the weber smokey mountain, i have put a Heavy layer of chips on the coals, but never soaked them. Wouldnt do that.


If your using chips on the grill, soak them for about 20-30 minutes, wrap them in a pouch made from foil and put a few holes in the foil with a fork. Or get one of those cast iron smoke boxes from Home depot. But for the Great outdoors, I would just dump them in the bowl. A friend has one we used a couple times but always used chunks. If I were using chips, i dont think i would soak them unless they ignited. Brian can help better with the Great Outdoors Smokers, hes got one.

[frognot]

Excellent post. Answered a lottta questions. Gracias.

[Mcockrell]

its a gosm not a weber

gas fired

[jgh1204]

Welcome fellow gasser.

[jminion]

It
It is true that I can't spell for sh*t.

Meat doesn't adsorb smoke either.

[biggyboy]

[quote="DFLittle"]There are different thoughts on the dividers - some have a dead air space between solid divider walls and this will cause a truer "serpentine" or timed burn. Other dividers are out of expanded metal but allow enough seperation that all the charcoal doesn't go up at the same time.]

When I first started using my offeset four months ago,I used a chimmeny of lump piled near the firebox/cooker wall and would lay a spit log close by but not touching the lump. Once the piece of wood got hot enough I would move it real close and add another log behind it to heat up and keep cycling the logs through in that method through out the cook.
It worked good, cause I was using a small fire with the vents open and good air flow. The only problem was I was having to tend the fire every 20 to 30 minutes. I then made a Klose style fire box with the double walls and all (See picture). The box would be filled with lump and wood chunks.
I would get good burn times, but I would have to close down the intake vents to keep it from getting away on me and over heating. This created bad air flow and heavier smoke as the wood ignited.
I'm now thinking of going back to the old method with small hot fire and log, instead of a big cooler fire. It will me getting up out of my chair more often , but at least
I'll have cleaner burns.

Glen

[chad]

The pic shows you started your basket from the door/damper end -- bad move!

Start the basket nearer the smoke chamber - the natural draft of the cooker (from the door towards the chimney) will wind up starting all your wood/charcoal in one big fire and hence the need to damper down pretty serverely.

Try the same load of wood/charcoal but start from the chamber end - the "cold" wood and charcoal will light off in a much more controlled and controllable fashion.

[BigBelly]

Try the same load of wood/charcoal but start from the chamber end - the "cold" wood and charcoal will light off in a much more controlled and controllable fashion.

Thank you, Dave! That little tid bit will come in handy when I get my basket for the Dera.

[chad]

Several hours later: I took another look at your pic - I stand corrected - you've lit of the basket from the "proper" end! :D I do notice you have a lot of lump in there - lump burns, as a rule, hotter and faster than Kingsford - so you can get spikes and then lose your fire as the lump ignites and then burns away.

If you have too much heat when the fire settles down - perhaps you need to reduce the amount of charcoal. The basket, as you've probably noticed, does not have to be full to work.

Part of the the problem is the (by comparison) small firebox most of us have on our backyard horizontals and even the Bandera (when compared to a Klose BYC or the MOAB!).

I've used a charcoal basket with a 10' x 48" offset cooker and once I got things cranking I was able to get about 3-4 hours with minimal supervision. Tim (kapndsl) gets nice long burns in his modified Bandera with a homemade charcoal basket. So, it can be done - you just have to fine tune the procedure for your cooker and the way you cook.

[BBQchef33]

The Backyard chef with its half inch firebox will go 2 hours on a fire the size of a matchbook. Moab, once hot will easily run for 2 hours on a single log. The real idea is though, that you want to maintain that coalbed, thats why we visit often, put in small chunks of wood, or a handfull or 2 of lump. I would rather see a small hot coalbed bruning red hot, than a small single flaming log. A log will burn and maintain temps, but when it comes time to add fuel, it may not be enuf to ignite another, so your back to lighting up chimneys of lump. I tend to it every 45-60 mins cause i want to.. But they can easily go for 2 hours before loosing temps. DTW.. this post is moot if you use a charcoal basket. Fro some reason.. even though i have 2,(A klose and an AL).. i only used them once or twice... Tending that fire is therapy for me.. blood pressure and heart rate drop significantly when I'm doing it. 8)

[BigAl]

Good thread, nothing I can add except I use the basket with Kingsford because we only have pine wood here. Hard wood is imported and cost about $600 a cord plus delivery. Wo I jus buy a few sticks for flavor.

[biggyboy]

Fro some reason.. even though i have 2,(A klose and an AL).. i only used them once or twice... Tending that fire is therapy for me.. blood pressure and heart rate drop significantly when I'm doing it. 8)

You are right on the money with that statement! I too find an enjoyment in tending the fire, thats another reason for why I am planning on going back to the small hot fire with a log beside it method. But at the same time I need to hone my skills at using the basket for those times when I plan to do a cook but need to go out for an half hour or more.

Glen

[The_Kapn]

Glen,
In the last 6 months, I have been converted from a "stick burner" to a "Kingsford and chunks" burner for some very good reasons.

Looking at your pic of your burn (thanks for a pic)--try this.
Try a burn with "chunks" that are 1/3 to 1/4 the size of what you show there.
Mine are about the size of a cigarette pack, or smaller.
As they "light off", I get a small "whiff" of white smoke sometimes. Never enough to cause creosote or problems with the meat. Just a "puff".
Chunks the size you show will produce a noticeable amount of white smoke as they warm up and ignite in my experience.

I lay a 2" to 3" or so bed of Kingsford, a layer of tiny chunks, more Kingsford, layer of small chunks, etc to the level I want.

I use about 20-30% wood (or less) and get great taste and smoke ring. Easily as good as full stick burning.

If you are getting early combustion in the basket--just load the first 1/3 and then add in the 2nd 1/3 a couple of hours later. Naturally, follow that with the final 1/3 to finish up a 6 hour cook if needed.

For more time--scrape out the first area and start the process over.
Works wonderful :lol:

For what it is worth.

TIM

[biggyboy]

Thanks Tim
I'll give it a try with the smaller chuncks and also use less lump. just a
small amount spread out instead of piled 5 inches hight throughout the box.
When you say Kingsford, your talking briquettes right?
I like the lump.

Glen

[The_Kapn]

Thanks Tim
I'll give it a try with the smaller chuncks and also use less lump. just a
small amount spread out instead of piled 5 inches hight throughout the box.
When you say Kingsford, your talking briquettes right?
I like the lump.

Glen
Yup--briquettes.
But, lump burns cleaner, just hotter and shorter/quicker.
Either will work, just adjust the times and quanties.
Kinda a "fine line" on heat and I do not want to compare one to the other.
I just use briquettes because they are consistant for me and therefore predictable.

TIM

[biggyboy]

My hope is to get good enought at this fire box thing to be able to come home at lunch time from work fire it up slap on some meat and go back to work for three and a half hours.
I have a three minute drive to work. Tried it once, but came home to a cold cooker.

Glen

[BBQchef33]

My hope is to get good enought at this fire box thing to be able to come home at lunch time from work fire it up slap on some meat and go back to work for three and a half hours.
I have a three minute drive to work. Tried it once, but came home to a cold cooker.

Glen


3.5 hours?? u need either a charcoal basket or a WSM to do that without risking a cold cooker.