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View Full Version : Competition Classes-Expectations versus Reality


bdodd444
07-10-2011, 11:47 AM
I thought it might be interesting to continue the discussion started on the "Let's talk Pork" thread between what do students expect from a competition class versus what is realistic for the instructors to provide. One of the posters was annoyed that shortly after a class, the instructor went on to win with a completely different technique than he taught in the recent class.

I had a very positive experience with the Plowboys/Butcher BBQ class I took last winter. I walked away with about 30 pages of notes and some great techniques. I have not copied the recipes taught, but used the information to tweak my own. One of the best things from the class was a lot of great time saving tips.

Anyway, back to the original question posted on the other thread: once you fork out $500 plus for a class, is there any obligation by the instructors to provide students any updates on their tweaks? How about those of you teaching these classes? Thanks.

Brian

Ron_L
07-10-2011, 12:02 PM
Anyway, back to the original question posted on the other thread: once you fork out $500 plus for a class, is there any obligation by the instructors to provide students any updates on their tweaks?

Absolutely not. IF the instructor advertises that they will show the recipes and techniques that they use in competition, that would only apply to what they are using at the time of the class. Not all instructors even promise to give up their specific competition recipes. In one very good class a TOY cook was teaching about chicken. He made no claim that he was going to give up his competition recipe, and he didn't. BUT, he did provide some excellent information on cooking chicken for competitions. I know some felt that he should have given up his recipe, but he never advertised that he would. Further, even if he did, and he then changed it the next week or the next year, unless there was specific commitment to provide updates after the class to expect updates is beyond the scope of the class.

Bourbon Barrel BBQ
07-10-2011, 12:04 PM
I would say no. The instructor continuing to improve his recipes and techniques is how they will stay ahead of their students. You paid to be taught contest winning techniques/recipes and thats exactly what you got.

The_Kapn
07-10-2011, 12:09 PM
I agree with Ronelle.

In addition, I do not think students have any right to go around and say "Look what I learned from So and So".
Of course teammates will share and the info will eventually leak out peice by piece anyway.
I have just had a couple of guys take someone's class and then talk about the details for some "unknown" reason.

Unseemly, at best.

TIM

jbrink01
07-10-2011, 12:11 PM
Nope. I took a great class, use a few techniques and ideas, but paid for the ability to see what TYPE of cooking wins, not to copy what they do. BTW - our stuff is pretty strong this year (knock on wood) and its because we came away with confidence that we just needed a little guidance.

jbrink01
07-10-2011, 12:12 PM
I agree with Ronelle.

In addition, I do not think students have any right to go around and say "Look what I learned from So and So".
Of course teammates will share and the info will eventually leak out peice by piece anyway.
I have just had a couple of guys take someone's class and then talk about the details for some "unknown" reason.

Unseemly, at best.

TIM
I've had a few people ask me what I learned in xxxxx's class. My response was to pay $750 for the weekend and find out.

bbqbrad
07-10-2011, 12:39 PM
But along those lines, I don't think you should sell anything to the public that you don't do. I bought a book sold by a competition team a few years back, and they had an interesting sauce that they said they used. Since they say in the book "This is how we cook, step by step", I contacted them and asked how much success they've had with the sauce and was told that they don't use it. :shock:

bdodd444
07-10-2011, 01:30 PM
But along those lines, I don't think you should sell anything to the public that you don't do. I bought a book sold by a competition team a few years back, and they had an interesting sauce that they said they used. Since they say in the book "This is how we cook, step by step", I contacted them and asked how much success they've had with the sauce and was told that they don't use it. :shock:


Did that sauce by chance contain Rasberry vinagrette?:-D

Sylvie
07-10-2011, 01:42 PM
I have taken a couple of classes and felt very good about the info I received. Both classes were conducted by reknowned award winning teams who have differing techniques, processes and recipes than each other. I gained a lot of info on short cuts, organization skills, philosophy of cooking, recipes and an appreciation for their achievements.

Most important is that there is no one secret formula. I'm still tweaking my process using info from these classes as a base. I've had some succeses and more to come (hopefully).

Can I call them? Yes, but I don't expect either to fill me in on any changes they made since the class. The classes were advertised to teach what they do as of the class not what they will do in the future.

Winning flavor profiles change over time and we all strive to keep up, stay ahead or even be the one to start the trend. No class is responsible for providing "updates" on what new thing they are doing (unless they advertise they will).

Maybe one day there will be some type of continuing education series at a nominal fee offered.

monty3777
07-10-2011, 01:51 PM
Anyway, back to the original question posted on the other thread: once you fork out $500 plus for a class, is there any obligation by the instructors to provide students any updates on their tweaks? How about those of you teaching these classes? Thanks.



I took a class from Scottie. He has always been willing to communicate with me on Facebook or by PM here when I have a question. I suppose it is up to the person taking the class to take the initiative to contact instructors to ask questions.

worthsmokin
07-10-2011, 02:20 PM
I have never taken any classes and don't plan on it. I think the best way of learning is going out and doing it in competitions. I have met some great people at competitions and you trade back and forth knowlege. Just because you take a class and you don't practice what you learned doesn't automatically make you as good of a cook as the instructor.

I think if you do pay to take classes and they give you the information they are winning with at that time, you should not expect updates from then on. The reason you took their class is because they are sombody in BBQ.

Slamdunkpro
07-10-2011, 03:04 PM
I took a class from Scottie. He has always been willing to communicate with me on Facebook or by PM here when I have a question. I suppose it is up to the person taking the class to take the initiative to contact instructors to ask questions.

This, I took Chris Hart's class and have had informative communications with him when I had questions regarding the class or comp Q in general. On the other hand, I'd never email or call him and ask "so, what recipes have you changed since the class and how have you changed them?" Studends need to know their limitations.

boogiesnap
07-10-2011, 03:18 PM
a class, any class, is meant to teach a technique, a thought process, a philosophy, and induce the students to THINK about those foundations.

i'm pretty sure all the comp classes do this. it is then up to the student to absorb, process, and then execute his or her own results from said teachings.

in cooking, the foundations haven't changed in a long, long time. the interpretations however, do.

i think comp classes teach ALOT of the foundations and ALL of the facts on the logistics of what it takes to compete. what the teachers do on their own is their own. seems fair to me.

CarolinaQue
07-10-2011, 04:12 PM
If some one got upset because a team won with a different technique, I'd say they need to re-evaluate their perception of entitelment. They got what they paid for, competition level techniques and information provided by the instructors. The people giving the class have worked bery hard and spent a lot of their own money developing their flavor profiles and methods they have used to win. To think that they will always use the same technique and method is an unreasonable expectation. I don't expect those giving the class to divulge their secret to success by any means other than maybe certain methods. It would seem counter productive if they were still on the circuit to teach all of their secrets to their success.

In regards to the OP, maybe the team in question was in a transition point to a new recipe or technique at the time of the class and finally thought they had it ready for competition and did well? That doesn't mean the what they had taught wasn't what was working for them at the time of the class and how they were doing things.

monty3777
07-10-2011, 04:22 PM
This, I took Chris Hart's class and have had informative communications with him when I had questions regarding the class or comp Q in general. On the other hand, I'd never email or call him and ask "so, what recipes have you changed since the class and how have you changed them?" Studends need to know their limitations.

Good point

HoDeDo
07-10-2011, 04:38 PM
I don't think there are any huge secrets to be gleaned if someone told you that "new thing" they are doing... IT is all about cooking, and cooking often. Knowing your meat.

I have shared exactly what I do, and have no worries at all about someone reproducing it. IT will always be slightly different. The key is to take the technique and then mold it into what you do.

Muzzlebrake said it perfectly... He has cooked with me probably at least a dozen times now. I have cooked with him also. If there is anyone other than Todd that knows what do, it is Sean. He does things differently than I do... but has he incorporated some of the processes that fit? Absolutely. And he is cooking on an FE and CS pits now. A brilliant move if you ask me :P

I also have no problem sharing info with folks that dont take a class from me. I can't even count the number of folks that if they need help with something, come hang out and either come by the house and practice, show up at a comp with questions... Heck I know Bob started the pork thread... His brother Don spent the invitational the day before they won the open at the royal watching how we do our presentations. He asked a couple of questions, and I offered it up. I dont think I do anything that is magical or mystical. I hope it helped them!

I definately dont think an instructor is required to share any new techniques. I know that I tell anyone who has taken a class from me that I am available via email anytime for help. Some take me up on it. Some dont. But I dont feel obligated to share any specific thing. honestly it is the process that matters. the whole process. If I said I started doing "x" - and it didnt have any context, I dont see how it would help anyone.

IF you think about the value in a class... the $200-500-1000, whatever it is... if you are a new team and learning.... one class is much cheaper than 5 contests of cooking, and 10 practice sessions inbetween. It can pay for itself in a contest or two. just in helping save the new folks money on what they need for an event, timing, etc. For a seasoned team, there might be one "ah-ha" moment that makes everything fall into place. So that fee isnt about all the future innovations that the instructor might come up with... it is about distilling everything they have learned up until that point.

luckyduk
07-10-2011, 05:56 PM
IF you think about the value in a class... the $200-500-1000, whatever it is... if you are a new team and learning.... one class is much cheaper than 5 contests of cooking, and 10 practice sessions inbetween. It can pay for itself in a contest or two. just in helping save the new folks money on what they need for an event, timing, etc. For a seasoned team, there might be one "ah-ha" moment that makes everything fall into place. So that fee isnt about all the future innovations that the instructor might come up with... it is about distilling everything they have learned up until that point.

Well said.......everyone is still learning, even top teams

That being said, I took Scotties class, he showed exact recipes and I do not use those recipes, I may use some techniques though :-D. Each cooker (and cook) runs things differently.
I am not about to call him and ask if he has changed anything :thumb:

Bourbon Barrel BBQ
07-10-2011, 06:45 PM
But along those lines, I don't think you should sell anything to the public that you don't do. I bought a book sold by a competition team a few years back, and they had an interesting sauce that they said they used. Since they say in the book "This is how we cook, step by step", I contacted them and asked how much success they've had with the sauce and was told that they don't use it. :shock:

I've had some recipes that I won with that I don't use anymore. If I taught a class or wrote a book I wouldn't consider that misleading. Now if they never used it to begin with that's another story.

AZScott
07-10-2011, 07:03 PM
What expectations can a team really expect? I've taken a Fast Eddy brisket class and a Plowboy class and at the time I knew I had picked up some potentially great pointers but wasn't sure if they were worth what I paid. Those techniques are a small part of the entire comp cook for us but they help us achieve the end product we want in front of the judges. I never went to class to follow a "recipe".

jbrink01
07-10-2011, 07:44 PM
What expectations can a team really expect? I've taken a Fast Eddy brisket class and a Plowboy class and at the time I knew I had picked up some potentially great pointers but wasn't sure if they were worth what I paid. Those techniques are a small part of the entire comp cook for us but they help us achieve the end product we want in front of the judges. I never went to class to follow a "recipe".

I call both Eddie and Todd friend. I strongly recommend their products. That being said, they have both helped me when I needed it, but what I learned from them is just a small part of what I do.

If you take a class from a "premier" cook and don't get your money's worth I would suspect your expectations were too high, or your not ready to capitalize on the knowledge. If I took a class from Julia Child I might learn something but I wouldnt be ready to label myself a French Chef. Just sayin'........

Scottie
07-10-2011, 07:46 PM
[quote=monty3777;1704396]I took a class from Scottie. He has always been willing to communicate with me on Facebook or by PM here when I have a question. I suppose it is up to the person taking the class to take the initiative to contact

Scottie
07-10-2011, 07:57 PM
Well said.......everyone is still learning, even top teams

That being said, I took Scotties class, he showed exact recipes and I do not use those recipes, I may use some techniques though :-D. Each cooker (and cook) runs things differently.
I am not about to call him and ask if he has changed anything :thumb:



Ive changed chicken a bit... look for new Cliff notes coming out soon.:icon_shy

Scottie
07-10-2011, 08:00 PM
Well said.......everyone is still learning, even top teams

That being said, I took Scotties class, he showed exact recipes and I do not use those recipes, I may use some techniques though :-D. Each cooker (and cook) runs things differently.
I am not about to call him and ask if he has changed anything :thumb:



Ive changed chicken a bit... look for new Cliff notes coming out soon.:icon_shy

But as all my students know... i am always changing that category..

jbrink01
07-10-2011, 08:13 PM
Ive changed chicken a bit... look for new Cliff notes coming out soon.:icon_shy

But as all my students know... i am always changing that category..

No offense, but I have too! Loved your class, and it sure seems to have helped. Keep up the good work.

AZScott
07-10-2011, 10:56 PM
I call both Eddie and Todd friend. I strongly recommend their products. That being said, they have both helped me when I needed it, but what I learned from them is just a small part of what I do.

If you take a class from a "premier" cook and don't get your money's worth I would suspect your expectations were too high, or your not ready to capitalize on the knowledge.

I hope I didn't come across as their classes aren't worth it because they were both very instrumental in getting us to where we are today. They didn't revolutionize my cooking but they definitely helped solve a couple of major problems and in my mind the classes were well worth it.

Still Smokin
07-11-2011, 08:28 AM
Myron Mixon keeps a list of all of his students teams that have gone on to win GC's and the list is quite extensive. He gets beat by his students on a regular basis. I have only competed against him once, but I beat him in Brisket with a 178.128

All in all, I took his class and I am pretty sure he does not "tell all' but he gives you enough info to improve your scores and walk consistantly. I took his class last year and have walked in 5 of 6 comps this year.

Capn Kev
07-11-2011, 09:41 AM
I would say no. The instructor continuing to improve his recipes and techniques is how they will stay ahead of their students. You paid to be taught contest winning techniques/recipes and thats exactly what you got.

I totally agree. I took the Plowboys class in March '10, and since then I have tweaked each of the recipes into my own versions. Some do not even resemble what I was doing after the class. You pay for a class, not continual consultation. Granted, I did follow-up with Todd after the class a few times for clarification on some of the techniques that were shared, however, I know for a fact that some of his recipes have since changed on a few meats. If I want to learn some of those new techniques/recipes, I'm more than happy to pay for another class. That's the way it should work in my opinion.

Perhaps some of the guys doing classes could set up a "retainer" program, maybe $2,000-$5,000 a year to have 100% access to their current recipes & techniques on an on-demand basis? :heh:

In the 18 months that I have been competing, what I have found is that you can have a great recipe, but execution is always the differentiator. Experienced, award-winning BBQ cooks are really cooking against themselves each week, to see if they can nail the execution. Those cooks (Munchin, Johnny, Rod, 4 Legs Up, Quau, etc.) that are cooking every weekend typically have a leg up on the cooks that cook 5-7 comps a year because they have the execution down.

Kev

DawgPhan
07-11-2011, 10:23 AM
If you buy a recipe class, you should get the current recipes. If you buy a technique class you should get the techniques.

You shouldnt be getting the recipes they used to use or the techniques that they thought about using. It should be what they would have cooked with that weekend instead of teaching the class.

For the most part, the guys teaching classes can get by on the fact that most of what they teach is going to be totally ignored. They could teach everything they do exactly the way they do it and know that most of the people in the class are not going to take great notes and those that do will ignore most of what they wrote down.

bbqbrad
07-11-2011, 10:39 AM
OK. Let's also look at the other side of these classes.

If you attend a class and start winning, does that give the teacher the right to use your name in advertising? I've seen that a few times and I've always wondered if the teacher should pay the student for use of the student's name...

Oooooo.... can o' worms is opened!!!

Scottie
07-11-2011, 11:45 AM
We talk about this in my class about pictures and sharing info. If students can look to the left and right of them in class and can guarantee that those guys and everyone in that class wont be pissed about them posting pictures of things they learned. Then go for it. Every class folks said they would prefer that folks dont post that stuff.

I look at it the same way. I dont keep lists of who has attended. Heck, half the time i dont know their team names!!!!! But it wouldnt be right for me to use their name to promote my class without them giving me approval. And more than likely i still wouldnt use their names. Just how i roll. If a student wants to say they came, cool with me.

Bourbon Barrel BBQ
07-11-2011, 01:03 PM
If you buy a recipe class, you should get the current recipes. If you buy a technique class you should get the techniques.

You shouldnt be getting the recipes they used to use or the techniques that they thought about using. It should be what they would have cooked with that weekend instead of teaching the class.


If they advertise that's what they will teach then yes. You should never assume.

Bourbon Barrel BBQ
07-11-2011, 01:08 PM
OK. Let's also look at the other side of these classes.

If you attend a class and start winning, does that give the teacher the right to use your name in advertising? I've seen that a few times and I've always wondered if the teacher should pay the student for use of the student's name...

Oooooo.... can o' worms is opened!!!

I'm on one of those lists. I wrote my instructor and thanked him after I managed a reserve and two grands after I took his class. He put me on his website. I suppose some people might have a problem with others knowing they "took a class" to get their wins. I sleep just fine at night.

JD McGee
07-11-2011, 01:24 PM
I would have to agree with the majority and say no...BBQ evolves rather quickly with new products hitting the market almost weekly...what worked last year may not work this year. We took Johnny Trigg's class this year and am fairly certain he shared all his recipes and techniques he was doing at the time. He also gave every student his personal phone number to use if they have any questions...at any time. I have called him for advice on a couple of occasions and he was very good at getting back to me in a timely manner.

Plowboy
07-11-2011, 02:25 PM
OK. Let's also look at the other side of these classes.

If you attend a class and start winning, does that give the teacher the right to use your name in advertising? I've seen that a few times and I've always wondered if the teacher should pay the student for use of the student's name...

Oooooo.... can o' worms is opened!!!

My rule is that "you were never at my class", unless you tell me otherwise. I will ask winners if I can brag on them, but it is up to them. I've found that most will give you a shout out anyway either because of a class or using your product.

huminie
07-11-2011, 03:30 PM
I had the good fortune of getting to attend a class from David of Butcher's that was held just 15 mins from my house. The timing was great because it was about a month before my first ever sanctioned contest.

My expectation was that I would learn some basic/general tips about how to cook cook competition BBQ. Since I had never cooked a 4 meat contest I was ready to soak in anything that could help me feel less over-whelmed at the task before me.

The class exceeded my expectations in every way. David showed us everything he does in a competition, step by step. I wrote everything down, including his full schedule. After the class I emailed him some questions and he answered them immediately. I also sent him my timeline notes and he helped me get them 100% accurate.

Do I follow his process and timeline to a tee? Absolutely not. I do things different so some things he does just won't work for me. But I was able to incorporate some of his techniques into my cooking. More importantly I learned how to be organized and create a schedule to work from. I also learned how to pay attention to details and really focus on certain areas of my cooking. Not sure he specifically taught that, but I learned it from watching him cook.

I feel like David would make himself available to answer any questions I have, but I wouldn't expect him to share his latest technique or recipe with me, although I think he would be willing to share if I asked.

To me, the class, along with a number of other things I did to prepare for my first season really helped to shorten the learning curve. Rather than starting from the beginning and doing trial and error I was able to jump in with a bunch of proven techniques in my back pocket. It has helped me have a very successful (so far anyway) rookie season.

Muzzlebrake
07-11-2011, 04:40 PM
We talk about this in my class about pictures and sharing info. If students can look to the left and right of them in class and can guarantee that those guys and everyone in that class wont be pissed about them posting pictures of things they learned. Then go for it. Every class folks said they would prefer that folks dont post that stuff.

I look at it the same way. I dont keep lists of who has attended. Heck, half the time i dont know their team names!!!!! But it wouldnt be right for me to use their name to promote my class without them giving me approval. And more than likely i still wouldnt use their names. Just how i roll. If a student wants to say they came, cool with me.

I just took Scottie's Mai Tai class.................names and photos of all others in attendance are being withheld to protect the guilty!
:becky:

Rub
07-11-2011, 05:42 PM
OK. Let's also look at the other side of these classes.

If you attend a class and start winning, does that give the teacher the right to use your name in advertising? I've seen that a few times and I've always wondered if the teacher should pay the student for use of the student's name...

Oooooo.... can o' worms is opened!!!
I've never thought twice about it myself. Why anyone would be ashamed or want to hide the fact that they engaged in learning and improving themselves is beyond me. Whenever I see someone who's taken my class 'up their game' at contests I love it and brag on them. I got beat by 3 of my guys this past weekend (one won GC) and was almost as happy as if I had won myself.
Maybe I need to re-think my thoughts on this? :tape:

jbrink01
07-11-2011, 06:02 PM
We talk about this in my class about pictures and sharing info. Every class folks said they would prefer that folks dont post that stuff.

If a student wants to say they came, cool with me.

I took Scotties class, I attended Todd's class, I've cooked with Todd, I've shigged like mad, and still don't get it......:doh:

Seriously though, both guys do a GREAT job but who cares if you took a class? I doubt many of us ended up in our current careers without some sort of preparation and training. BBQ has become big business for some and an expensive hobby for others and taking a class is simply a means of either shortening the learning curve or working out a few kinks. I'll most likely take another one this off season.

I also still plan to do a catering class (thanks Todd) and look at it the same way. Why shouldnt others and I profit from my trial and error?

Meat Burner
07-11-2011, 06:28 PM
I would love to that that class from you jb. It's about learning.

jrbBBQ
07-11-2011, 06:54 PM
This is my first year competing and I've never taken a class, but I'm thinking about taking one this fall. I'm averaging over 8 on appearance on everything and exactly 8 on my tenderness scores, but I'm struggling with flavor profiles in every category except pork. I don't have any issues with getting things done or any kind of timing for everything (thanks to research on this forum). I cook on two WSM's and an UDS, so I was wondering if I took a class.. would it help me with the flavor profiles or should I just share with people competing next to me and use this first year to figure it out.

El Lobo
07-11-2011, 07:14 PM
I don't teach competition classes nor anything cooking related, but what I do teach is arguably just as serious - forensics. First of all I provide a detailed class syllabus, that way there is no guessing or ambiguity as to what will be covered. Second, I teach every technique (or trick) I know. My objective is simple, I want my students to win. Even if those techniques come back to beat me in opposition, it means they did a better job than I did.

Simple as that.

Spydermike72
07-12-2011, 10:49 AM
If a student wants to say they came, cool with me.

There is a weekend in February that I cant seem to recall where I was at ?? :becky::becky::becky:

Scottie
07-12-2011, 11:40 AM
I just took Scottie's Mai Tai class.................names and photos of all others in attendance are being withheld to protect the guilty!
:becky:



Best part for me at this special class, is no one remembers anything after the class!!!! :becky:

Rich Parker
07-12-2011, 11:53 AM
I attended the 1st Annual CSC class in 2010 and want to go back when the Jambo is unleashed. :cool:

Scottie
07-12-2011, 02:23 PM
I attended the 1st Annual CSC class in 2010 and want to go back when the Jambo is unleashed. :cool:



I officially have temp plates and as of today, insurance!!! It's been unleashed... just in my driveway! I need to get it down to Jamie and then we'll have a coming out party... :thumb:

Sledneck
07-12-2011, 04:00 PM
I don't teach competition classes nor anything cooking related, but what I do teach is arguably just as serious - forensics. First of all I provide a detailed class syllabus, that way there is no guessing or ambiguity as to what will be covered. Second, I teach every technique (or trick) I know. My objective is simple, I want my students to win. Even if those techniques come back to beat me in opposition, it means they did a better job than I did.

Simple as that.

Would you update your students ?

deguerre
07-12-2011, 04:02 PM
Would you update your students ?

I imagine there are Trade Journals and scientific articles for that...:-D

Sledneck
07-12-2011, 04:04 PM
I imagine there are Trade Journals and scientific articles for that...:-D

I wonder if that field has as much ass kissin as this thread does :wink:

Rich Parker
07-12-2011, 04:38 PM
I wonder if that field has as much ass kissin as this thread does :wink:

Smooch!

jbrink01
07-12-2011, 04:42 PM
I wonder if that field has as much ass kissin as this thread does :wink:

With the year I'm having, I'd almost kiss Scottie's arse in public......:sick:

Scottie
07-12-2011, 06:50 PM
With the year I'm having, I'd almost kiss Scottie's arse in public......:sick:

I just wish i remember which recipes i told you guys... It sounds like they are working better than the one's ive been using... :becky:



And before someone thinks I was serious..
Im not. I teach how I cook. I want folks to suceed, so others want to come to a class. I do it for a cause. Not that making money is wrong, just not me.. And for the record. If folks want help or have questions after my class, i always try to help if i am asked. Again, i want recommendations for others to come to a class/fundraiser..

El Lobo
07-12-2011, 07:23 PM
Would you update your students ?

Tough question. I have about 50-80 students a year, so keeping them up to date would be a chore. What I do instead is make myself available after the class. If someone called me up after taking the class and said they're dealing with a case with a newer technology (I work in high tech forensics), I would gladly explain the parallel technique or approach I'm now using.

Sooner or later so much will have changed that I'll likely see them back in an updated class.

That said, would I talk about something I'm going to be using in court very soon? Absolutely not. That could possible undermine my case. I guess that's akin to a competition course instructor giving up his new recipe before it's won anything or before he's perfected it. But really, do you just want cutting edge techniques or do you want something proven to win?

I'd wait for the latter.