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SmokinGuitarPlayer
06-20-2011, 08:01 AM
We competed in a local, small competition over this weekend. It was not KCBS sanctioned but sanctioned by one of the regional groups who did a great job of running the event ... anyway ... the local newspaper ran a photo today of a chicken judges table and if you look at the photo, it looks like almost, if not all of the entries the skin has been pulled back / off and the bite taken without tasting the skin !!! After putting all this effort into making the skin bite-through and flavor "layering" with sauce , glaze, rub, etc. it would be a shame if the judges never even taste the skin !! Does anyone out there know if THIS ACTUALLY HAPPENS (tasting but removing / peeling off the skin first) . ... and is this proper judging?
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w116/fredsmusicshop/RDGEAGLECHICKPHOTO2.jpg

Alexa RnQ
06-20-2011, 08:19 AM
Sadly, if the contest is unsanctioned, you have no guarantees about what is "proper judging". There will be neither guidelines in place for how the food should be sampled, nor a pool of trained judges to draw from -- and you know most of the public has been brainwashed by bonesless, skinless breast for decades. Fat is EVIL!!! So why are they judging barbeque???

SmokinGuitarPlayer
06-20-2011, 08:25 AM
From what I was told, there was an experienced and properly trained KCBS judge at each table who spent time, coaching the judges as to how / what to do. I met some of these judges after the event and they were "right on" and explained that they did a lot of "hand holding" to make sure things went as good as possible.

Am I wrong to assume that by KCBS guidelines, if the skin is there, it is supposed to be "bitten" ...correct?

Alexa RnQ
06-20-2011, 08:42 AM
Yes, the product is supposed to be judged "as presented".

However, just because a CBJ is coaching the table, the photo is indisputable proof that they can't MAKE laymen judge by KCBS standards.

mobow
06-20-2011, 08:50 AM
KCBS standards state that if the chicken is turned in with skin on it should at least be sampled. The standard is not specific as to how the judge accomplishes this. Keith

bbq.tom
06-20-2011, 08:56 AM
Am I wrong to assume that by KCBS guidelines, if the skin is there, it is supposed to be "bitten" ...correct?


Straight from the KCBS Judge Certification handbook:
"Chicken: Chicken may be presented with or without the skin. It may also be presented with a combination of dark and white meat or all one or the other. The type presented should not in any way affect the way it is scored. Properly smoked chicken will be moist and have a nice texture and any juice present should be clear. Smoked chicken has a tendency to produce a red coloring around the bone areas, especially in the thigh and leg meat. To some it gives the impression that it was undercooked. Always check the juices and if they are clear you will find the chicken is properly cooked. There may be, at times, a pink appearance to the breast meat if it has been smoked for some time. However, we do not judge chicken on its color as some cooks prepare their chicken in such a way the breast meat will remain white."

Additionally, at the judges meeting prior to each event, the direction is given that if skin is on the piece of chicken it must be "tasted". I have NEVER heard the direction that it must be "bitten" to determine "bite-through"; however, that is one of the "usual/understood" criteria for judging chicken with skin on.

Ford
06-20-2011, 09:03 AM
I know for a fact some judges take the piece apart before eating it. They want to make sure it's cooked. They should take a piece of skin with the meat but that doesn't test bite thru. That's all part of judging and you take the good with the bad.

A good judge will take the peice presented and take a bite before doing anything else. After all if it's not done and you see blood you can spit it out and should be OK.

Goddahavit
06-20-2011, 01:29 PM
Fred, seems you did pretty good there in Chicken...

I cant tell from those pix weather or not they bit then pealed the skin back or pealed then bit.

I can say if they don't take a bit of mine its not going to be a balanced taste.

Its all part of the game...

P.S. Where did you get the pix? got any others?

Thanks, Eric

SmokinGuitarPlayer
06-20-2011, 03:35 PM
Eric ... yes, I guess we both had a pretty good weekend. I really think we have the chicken thing "together" but if they don't taste the whole thing in one bite, they are missing the flavor profile and the bite through skin ... both of which take a ton of work to get right.

Did you see my buddies in Psychedelic Smoke took reserve ..first time out!

Also, After the contest I found an error on the score sheet (on my ribs entry , judge 6, no number entered for tenderness... they forgot to enter the score).The error seriously affected my teams placement overall and on ribs and my team guys were quite upset but **** happens...everybody involved in running that contest did a great job.

FB/SGP

Goddahavit
06-20-2011, 03:46 PM
That was great for Psychedelic Smoke, I didn't get to talk to them much, but that was a awesome job.

Sorry to hear about the Ribs that does stink... looks like that could have really mattered as it was in tenderness.

Lake Dogs
06-20-2011, 04:07 PM
Eric ... yes, I guess we both had a pretty good weekend. I really think we have the chicken thing "together" but if they don't taste the whole thing in one bite, they are missing the flavor profile and the bite through skin ... both of which take a ton of work to get right.

Did you see my buddies in Psychedelic Smoke took reserve ..first time out!

Also, After the contest I found an error on the score sheet (on my ribs entry , judge 6, no number entered for tenderness... they forgot to enter the score).The error seriously affected my teams placement overall and on ribs and my team guys were quite upset but **** happens...everybody involved in running that contest did a great job.

FB/SGP

There are a few hundred reasons why to participate only in a sanctioned contest, and then only in a very seasoned reputable sanctioning body.

redneck cooker
06-20-2011, 04:13 PM
There are a few hundred reasons why to participate only in a sanctioned contest, and then only in a very seasoned reputable sanctioning body.


i couldn't agree more.....:becky:

huminie
06-20-2011, 04:48 PM
I know judges who will take a bite through the skin and then peel back the skin to taste the meat to see how much flavor it has vs. all the flavor coming from the rub/sauce on the outside. They want to taste some flavor/smoke in the meat in addition to whatever is put on top.

I don't think you can tell from the one pic what is going on there.

I agree with the statements about sanctioned contests. Non-sanctioned events are a wild-west affair!

SmokinGuitarPlayer
06-20-2011, 05:49 PM
Just to make it clear ..I never said it was "non-sanctioned" . I said it was not KCBS sanctioned. It was sanctioned by the regional group and they did a wonderful job all weekend. Yes, it was more of a casual contest but there were serious competitors there. Also, it was great having a nice contest so close to us. We had a great time and thank everybody who helped put it on.

Alexa RnQ
06-20-2011, 06:02 PM
What sanctioning body was it?

Slamdunkpro
06-20-2011, 06:20 PM
Let's clear all this up right now.

This was not a sanctioned event operated under MABA rules. The Mid Atlantic BBQ Association was asked to come in on short notice and assist in the administration of this event. This event does not count towards MABA ToY, The MABA Brisket Chase or act as a qualifier. We operated under the rules that the organizer provided.

The scoring mistake on Fred's ribs was unfortunate. I'm still trying to figure out exactly what happened as there is a null field test and it didn't trip. Regardless, I'm the one that entered the scores so the responsibility is mine. Fred pointed it out after the results were handed out and it was corrected on the spot. It moved Fred's team up in the standings a bit but it did not affect any calls or prizes. If it had they also would have been corrected on the spot. My sincerest apologies went to Fred on Sunday and again now.

3. As for the chicken photo, there has been a lot of guess work and speculation as what might have happened, but no one here actually knows or can discern anything concrete from that photo.

SmokinGuitarPlayer
06-20-2011, 06:25 PM
SORRY FOLKS ..I did not want to start a broohaha ... I THOUGHT it was sanctioned by MABA ..my error for sure ... so change my previous statements to 'NON SANCTIONED EVENT" .... I really did not want to ruffle any feathers ... They did a great job as I said a couple of times before and accidents errors happen ...I certainly should know having just made another one.....so no hard feelings or negative feelings on our part and again, from us and I think everybody else, the MABA people deserve tons of credit for how they handled this thing ..it was a "casual" event and meant to be fun which it was.

The picture from the Reading Eagle was just an eye-opener and I was trying to find out if it is common practice for judges to eat around the skin.

ModelMaker
06-20-2011, 08:26 PM
There is at least one entry at every contest where the first bite won't go through the skin and you either pull the bite without skin or the skin all comes off with it.
If the skin is not biteworthy then my second bite is usually after I have removed the skin.
I can't say I have ever seen anyone removing skin for their first bite though.
Ed