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The_Kapn
03-02-2005, 11:48 AM
Received this email from FBA.
For those who might have missed it, here it is.
To all FBA Certified Judges and Cook Teams.

In a motion passed by the Board of Directors today we are changing the word Appearance to the word Presentation in all documentation, reports, and manuals effective today.

As a Judge you have been judging Presentation all along but we've been calling it Appearance. This should put an end to the confusion. Presentation is what the box of food looks like at first glance. Did the team take the time to put the meat in the box carefully and in such a manner that it is appealing to the eye? Does the meat look good enough to eat? Is the overall presentation one that makes you want to eat it? Does it look better than a "to go box" from a barbecue joint that's been bounced around in the car on your way home? Does the food look better than the food you get in a barbecue joint or your neighbor's backyard? Questions like these will help you determine an accurate score for Presentation.

Nothing changes in the manner in which you score. You will still start at 7.5 as an average presentation and then score up or down from there. An average presentation for pork, for example, would be a box of shredded pork just tossed into the box. A better presentation for pork, for example, would be where the shredded pork formed a nice evenly distributed bed in the box. Neither of these examples are meant to designate any particular score. That is up to you the judge to decide when you look at the box. The teams have always strived to present their entries in a manner that is befitting of a fine restaurant and that will not change. The teams also know the difference between a nice presentation and sculpting in the box. This is not an issue here.

If there are questions regarding this change please feel free to ask them now. As always, to the judges go our thanks for making the FBA the finest sanctioning body in the world, and to the cook teams the best of luck in all your cooking!

Ricky Ginsburg
For the Board of Directors

Small change, but glad they are looking at things.

His Pork example is the hardest meat entry (IMHO) to be creative with.
But, I guess it can be done.

TIM

homebbq
03-02-2005, 12:13 PM
Hey Tim,

They are trying to eliminate the wide variance in appearance scores. They will also try to do some educating on tenderness scores. There should not be a wde variance there either. Taste, a wide variance could be expected.

The_Kapn
03-02-2005, 02:51 PM
Hey Tim,

They are trying to eliminate the wide variance in appearance scores. They will also try to do some educating on tenderness scores. There should not be a wde variance there either. Taste, a wide variance could be expected.
Good deal any way they do it.
I think any time a topic is brought up like this, the better!
Gets the Judges (and teams) thinking, and that is always productive.

I think I saw somewhere that KCBS is considering a short re-training or re-certification class for Judges every 2 years or so.
That would be a godsend also for the same reason.
Helps get us back to the basics of the guidelines and refresh our memories on what they really are.

I personally think even taste could be more consistant than it is--of course never perfect. But, if Judges honored the instructions to ignore their personal preference for sauce or not, things would be better. Also, we were told in training that whether it was spicey, sweet, or "whatever" flavor, we were to judge it in terms of "Is it a good application of the chosen flavor?" (or words to that effect).
That guidance never made it out the door :lol:
Obviously, never take the human out of it, but Judges could be looking for quality, not just a taste that they love. JMHO

TIM

homebbq
03-02-2005, 03:10 PM
What would be best is if we could cook for the same 6 judges all the time. But thats definately not the case, and never will be. So, no matter what, taste will always be subjective. However, on tenderness that really should not be that subjective. It seems that we get experts that come up with their own tenderness tests all the time. All in all, I think what the FBA is doing is real healthy, and I am certainly willing to have patience, until they get it to where it should be.

smokincracker
03-02-2005, 03:43 PM
What would be best is if we could cook for the same 6 judges all the time. But thats definately not the case, and never will be. So, no matter what, taste will always be subjective. However, on tenderness that really should not be that subjective. It seems that we get experts that come up with their own tenderness tests all the time. All in all, I think what the FBA is doing is real healthy, and I am certainly willing to have patience, until they get it to where it should be.

Perhaps FBA should throw out the low and high scores like most any other judging competition This aint Boxing. Why do we need to submit 8 pieces? For six scores. Throwing out the high and the low will help knock out the judge with PMS

homebbq
03-02-2005, 04:08 PM
The extra 2 pieces is to take care of the table captain, and volunteers.

The arguement for not throwing out the low and high score, is that a score is a score. And the portions turned in can be much different especially with ribs and chicken, and can be with pork an brisket also. Each piece of chicken is different to some extent, and the ribs likely from different slabs, and pork from more than one butt or shoulder, and brisket sometimes the same. It also virtually eliminates ties.

Frankly I know throwing out the low score has, and likely will continue to be discussed. Throwing out the high score will probably never happen.

The_Kapn
03-02-2005, 04:26 PM
If I was "King for a Day", I know how exactly to fix it.
But, I ain't--so no need to waste calories typing it out :lol:
Back to packing the RV for Mobile 8)
TIM

CosmicCookin
03-02-2005, 05:32 PM
I must agree with Kevin, what the FBA is doing is quite healthy for the organization. I think the board is doing the best they can to educate and re-educate the judges.

As I said in "Cattle Call" I've cooked for a few years before competing. When I started competing I threw everything out the window. Not that I think what I was doing would score badly, I just don't think it would win a competition.

While the board is re-educating the judges, I'm trying re-educate myself as a cook. I'm no longer just cooking for friends, family or any folks that know nothing about competition BBQ. I'm cookin' fer da "experts" now!

I have no doubt I can cook, but finding that universal flavor that nobody can deny like many teams have done will be the next challenge for me. Let Ricky deal with the judges..............

The_Kapn
03-02-2005, 05:42 PM
I must agree with Kevin, what the FBA is doing is quite healthy for the organization. I think the board is doing the best they can to educate and re-educate the judges.
We all certainly all agree on that.
I am very glad to see "incremental" improvement and hope it continues.
It might evolve into a better world for all of us, both the Judges and the Teams!
And, I "be both of those". I get to see it from both sides--like DF :lol:
TIM

chad
03-02-2005, 07:13 PM
Actually, Ricky isn't going to be doing quite as much judge's training. :D A little bird told me that the board is looking to actually train the judges instead of telling them to just score high.

We'll see. I'm judging a lot this year and except for a couple of known entities just about everyone else is giving a good effort.