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View Full Version : Brisket slices back on smoker ---- Illegal?


watertowerbbq
06-14-2011, 09:01 PM
I was talking to a friend this evening regarding brisket. During the conversation, I asked him what he thought about slicing brisket, coating it similar to burnt ends and returning it to the smoker. He stopped me in my tracks and said that was illegal, that I couldn't return brisket slices back to the smoker, but that it was ok for burnt ends. I told him he was crazy and that the only rule applied to pork. He said that at a contest recently, he was told that brisket slices could not be returned to the smoker, but cubes could be returned to the smoker to make burnt ends. This sounds really off the wall that a distinction like that could be made.

So tell me brothers, is it legal to slice the brisket flat, season and sauce and return to the smoker?

sitnfat
06-14-2011, 09:03 PM
legal

boogiesnap
06-14-2011, 09:11 PM
legal. parting being illegal is for pork only.

i can't say preparing the flat slices in the same fashion as the point is a good idea though.

watertowerbbq
06-14-2011, 09:14 PM
i can't say preparing the flat slices in the same fashion as the point is a good idea though.i agree. i was just thinking about new ways to come up with a solid product when he said it was illegal...........which i don't think it is

CarolinaQue
06-14-2011, 09:18 PM
I think that part of the show for appearance in brisket is to let the judges see the smoke ring. How can you accomplish this if you coat the slices in sauce?

watertowerbbq
06-14-2011, 09:22 PM
I think that part of the show for appearance in brisket is to let the judges see the smoke ring. How can you accomplish this if you coat the slices in sauce?That is not the question...........the question is whether it's legal or not to slice the brisket and return it to the smoker.

nthole
06-14-2011, 09:24 PM
I think that part of the show for appearance in brisket is to let the judges see the smoke ring. How can you accomplish this if you coat the slices in sauce?

Judges are told repeatedly not to judge the smoke ring at all since it can be chemically induced, so this shouldn't be a factor.

riblette
06-14-2011, 09:43 PM
That is not the question...........the question is whether it's legal or not to slice the brisket and return it to the smoker.

It depends.

If it's a KCBS sanctioned contest it's legal. They make a specific exception for Pork, but do not call out the other 3 meats. Iíve included the rule from the KCBS website below. (apologies in advance for including more information than you specifically requested Ė donít harsh on me Ė but it may help to see the rule in context of all four meats):

10) The Four KCBS Meat Categories:
∑ CHICKEN: Chicken includes Cornish Game Hen and Kosher Chicken.
∑ PORK RIBS: Ribs shall include the bone. Country style ribs are prohibited.
∑ PORK: Pork is defined as Boston Butt, Picnic and/or Whole Shoulder, weighing a minimum of five (5) pounds. Pork shall be cooked whole (bone in or bone out) and shall not be separated during the cooking process. At no time shall the meat once separated be returned to a cooker.
∑ BEEF BRISKET: May be whole brisket, flat, or point. Corned beef is not allowed.

IBCA doesnít seem to have any restrictions

PNWBA is the same as KCBS, except the judges can judge the burnt ends on appearance only.

You may wanna check the rules for yourself by checking with the sanction body or the event reps.

watertowerbbq
06-14-2011, 10:04 PM
It depends.

If it's a KCBS sanctioned contest it's legal. They make a specific exception for Pork, but do not call out the other 3 meats. Iíve included the rule from the KCBS website below. (apologies in advance for including more information than you specifically requested Ė donít harsh on me Ė but it may help to see the rule in context of all four meats):
10) The Four KCBS Meat Categories:
∑ CHICKEN: Chicken includes Cornish Game Hen and Kosher Chicken.
∑ PORK RIBS: Ribs shall include the bone. Country style ribs are prohibited.
∑ PORK: Pork is defined as Boston Butt, Picnic and/or Whole Shoulder, weighing a minimum of five (5) pounds. Pork shall be cooked whole (bone in or bone out) and shall not be separated during the cooking process. At no time shall the meat once separated be returned to a cooker.
∑ BEEF BRISKET: May be whole brisket, flat, or point. Corned beef is not allowed.

IBCA doesnít seem to have any restrictions

PNWBA is the same as KCBS, except the judges can judge the burnt ends on appearance only.

You may wanna check the rules for yourself by checking with the sanction body or the event reps.
It's for a KCBS contest. I'd never heard of such a rule for brisket and that prompted the question.

JoeB's
06-14-2011, 10:04 PM
Riblette, nice post.

As a KCBS judge its unheard of judging burnt ends only on the appearance. It kind of gets off the subject some but Unfortunately whether it be a rule or not every judge will judge every piece of meat that is put in front of them. That goes for pork as well. Many times I've seen where one piece was great but the other wasnt so but Judges will grade them both and it will impact their score. Careful what you put in the box and what you believe to be true.

Joe
Hell's Grill bbq

redneck cooker
06-14-2011, 10:07 PM
It depends.

If it's a KCBS sanctioned contest it's legal. They make a specific exception for Pork, but do not call out the other 3 meats. I’ve included the rule from the KCBS website below. (apologies in advance for including more information than you specifically requested – don’t harsh on me – but it may help to see the rule in context of all four meats):
10) The Four KCBS Meat Categories:
∑ CHICKEN: Chicken includes Cornish Game Hen and Kosher Chicken.
∑ PORK RIBS: Ribs shall include the bone. Country style ribs are prohibited.
∑ PORK: Pork is defined as Boston Butt, Picnic and/or Whole Shoulder, weighing a minimum of five (5) pounds. Pork shall be cooked whole (bone in or bone out) and shall not be separated during the cooking process. At no time shall the meat once separated be returned to a cooker.
∑ BEEF BRISKET: May be whole brisket, flat, or point. Corned beef is not allowed.

IBCA doesn’t seem to have any restrictions

PNWBA is the same as KCBS, except the judges can judge the burnt ends on appearance only.

You may wanna check the rules for yourself by checking with the sanction body or the event reps.


All texas bbq once it leaves the cooker, it goes in the turn in tray. It is a DQ, if you get caught, or slicing and returning to pit...all sauce/glaze must be cooked on, it cannot be added after it leaves the pit..

INmitch
06-14-2011, 10:09 PM
Kinda funny this was brought up. Reps came aroud this weekend with the "clock" while I was prepping ck. I don't know how but the conversation went south and I joked about a team that dropped their ck & washed it up & sauced it & put it back on the smoker......and WON last year at a comp.
The reps imediat comment was that it should have been DQ'd. .......After I thought about it for a minute I asked why. The answer was you can't return it to the smoker!!!....
After I let them know what the rules were & they kinda looked at each other n walked away...
After they got 30-40 feet away I said to my teamates,,,,OH MY GOD the KCBS Reps don't even know the rules!!!!!!!!!

Swear on my dear mothers grave on this. And they will be repping a Sam's regional in August.

Q-Dat
06-14-2011, 11:45 PM
Kinda funny this was brought up. Reps came aroud this weekend with the "clock" while I was prepping ck. I don't know how but the conversation went south and I joked about a team that dropped their ck & washed it up & sauced it & put it back on the smoker......and WON last year at a comp.
The reps imediat comment was that it should have been DQ'd. .......After I thought about it for a minute I asked why. The answer was you can't return it to the smoker!!!....
After I let them know what the rules were & they kinda looked at each other n walked away...
After they got 30-40 feet away I said to my teamates,,,,OH MY GOD the KCBS Reps don't even know the rules!!!!!!!!!

Swear on my dear mothers grave on this. And they will be repping a Sam's regional in August.



Scary.

CarolinaQue
06-15-2011, 07:17 AM
That is not the question...........the question is whether it's legal or not to slice the brisket and return it to the smoker.


Your question had been answered before I got to it, so I figured you didn't need a 3rd answer if the first two were correct. I was just trying to be helpful in regards to your idea that brought about the debate in the first place.

CarolinaQue
06-15-2011, 07:21 AM
Judges are told repeatedly not to judge the smoke ring at all since it can be chemically induced, so this shouldn't be a factor.

I understand that they're told that. But do you honestly expect me to believe that a judge is going to score a brisket with little to no smoke ring the same as one with a nice deep 1/4 to 3/8" smoke ring? If that's the case, then why would teams be using things like tenderquick to deepen the smoke ring? Yes, it may be artificial, but it looks better int he box.

gmholler
06-15-2011, 07:54 AM
All texas bbq once it leaves the cooker, it goes in the turn in tray. It is a DQ, if you get caught, or slicing and returning to pit...all sauce/glaze must be cooked on, it cannot be added after it leaves the pit..

Actually, the IBCA rule reads " ...sauces and/or liquids may not be added once put into tray." The rule was modified a while back due to problems at turn in - i.e. sauce that was said to be cooked on but still tacky to the touch.

Lynn H.

rweller
06-15-2011, 08:44 AM
I understand that they're told that. But do you honestly expect me to believe that a judge is going to score a brisket with little to no smoke ring the same as one with a nice deep 1/4 to 3/8" smoke ring? If that's the case, then why would teams be using things like tenderquick to deepen the smoke ring? Yes, it may be artificial, but it looks better int he box.

You can beleive what you want but I for one do not judge Smoke Ring. I could care less if it has a smoke ring. But I'm just one judge.

CarolinaQue
06-15-2011, 08:53 AM
You can beleive what you want but I for one do not judge Smoke Ring. I could care less if it has a smoke ring. But I'm just one judge.


So what exactly do you look for in appearance?

tmcmaster
06-15-2011, 12:19 PM
Kinda funny this was brought up. Reps came aroud this weekend with the "clock" while I was prepping ck. I don't know how but the conversation went south and I joked about a team that dropped their ck & washed it up & sauced it & put it back on the smoker......and WON last year at a comp.
The reps imediat comment was that it should have been DQ'd. .......After I thought about it for a minute I asked why. The answer was you can't return it to the smoker!!!....
After I let them know what the rules were & they kinda looked at each other n walked away...
After they got 30-40 feet away I said to my teamates,,,,OH MY GOD the KCBS Reps don't even know the rules!!!!!!!!!

Swear on my dear mothers grave on this. And they will be repping a Sam's regional in August.

Wow.:doh:

CarolinaQue
06-15-2011, 01:19 PM
You can beleive what you want but I for one do not judge Smoke Ring. I could care less if it has a smoke ring. But I'm just one judge.


A better question I thought of:

The smoke ring does not factor into your mind or decision in the over all appearance of the brisket?

watertowerbbq
06-15-2011, 02:33 PM
Your question had been answered before I got to it, so I figured you didn't need a 3rd answer if the first two were correct. I was just trying to be helpful in regards to your idea that brought about the debate in the first place.No problem. Looking back at my post, you could read it that I was being an a&&hole about your post and I wasn't. When I was typing it, I was just trying to stay on topic.

Returning slices to the smoker may have a ton of pitfalls that would make the final product something that I don't want to turn it, but it was just a brainstorming idea that I thought about pursuing in my driveway before I took it to a comp. Didn't mean the post to come off the wrong way. I apologize for that.

CarolinaQue
06-15-2011, 03:19 PM
No problem. Looking back at my post, you could read it that I was being an a&&hole about your post and I wasn't. When I was typing it, I was just trying to stay on topic.

Returning slices to the smoker may have a ton of pitfalls that would make the final product something that I don't want to turn it, but it was just a brainstorming idea that I thought about pursuing in my driveway before I took it to a comp. Didn't mean the post to come off the wrong way. I apologize for that.


Matt, I understand. I also understand that forums often don't express the emotion meant behind a post. I didn't take it personal, and I appreciate your clarification.

Tim

sitnfat
06-15-2011, 04:10 PM
The judges are told not to judge the smoke ring to give the pellet poopers a chance..We all know they cant make a smoke ring like a stick burner :boxing::tape:

The_Kapn
06-15-2011, 04:12 PM
The judges are told not to judge the smoke ring to give the pellet poopers a chance..We all know they cant make a smoke ring like a stick burner :boxing::tape:

Simply False.

TIM

sitnfat
06-15-2011, 04:21 PM
all in good fun :-P

bam
06-15-2011, 04:31 PM
Brisket legal pork DQ.

boogiesnap
06-15-2011, 04:50 PM
anybody see the box over at BBQ critic? it clearly has a smoke ring all the way around the MM. it's getting scores of 9 in appearance.

at what point does the DQ get applied? only if caught going into the cooker? or off?

i haven't competed much, but, i i also haven't seen many reps around watching @ 12AM or 4:30AM.

the fact that this box is getting such accolades is disturbing, yes, it looks nice, but should be automatic DQ.

now, unless it is someone here's box and can explain HOW they got the ring/bark all the way around, i will gladly stand corrected.

The_Kapn
06-15-2011, 04:53 PM
all in good fun :-P

Figured it was--that's why I kept my reply short. :-D

Cheers

TIM

Meat Burner
06-15-2011, 07:16 PM
Start a new thread about the smoke ring issue. Hijack ring a bell. The topic is about putting sliced brisket back on the smoker being legal. KCBS is fine with it. Probably wouldn't do it but it is something to think about.

boogiesnap
06-15-2011, 07:48 PM
Start a new thread about the smoke ring issue. Hijack ring a bell. The topic is about putting sliced brisket back on the smoker being legal. KCBS is fine with it. Probably wouldn't do it but it is something to think about.

thought maybe it was a hijack, but seemed pertinent to the conversation...

parting and all.

coupla current threads seem somewhat freeflowing on open discussion.
gotcha tho. :thumb: