Age old sand vs. water question

[G$]

The round water pan in my Bandera came with a little hole poked near the bottom, so I have been using a large-ish rectangle cake type pan on a low grate sitting above where the round pan normally goes. It holds quite a bit of water and seems to serve the purpose.

Question is, would it be of value to continue using my cake pan (I have no choice until I remember to call the char broil type people and get a replacement), ALONG WITH the damaged water bowl filled with sand? (I think sand will stay in the round pan and not leak out the small hole.)

Beach Mod? Sand and Surf?

[tommykendall]

The round water pan in my Bandera came with a little hole poked near the bottom


Call and request a replacement.

[racer_81]

use 3 or 4 layers of HD foil.

then sand.

then 3 or 4 more layers of foil.

this will keep the sand clean and the pan clean.

replace the top layer or two of foil after each session.

so there. let the water vs sand discussions being (again).

:-)

[G$]

so there. let the water vs sand discussions being (again).

:-)

Yeah but......... this is 'water vs. water and sand'. Thanks for the opinion racer.



Call and request a replacement.


See above, where i say "no choice until I remember to call the char broil type people and get a replacement". I may be lazy, but I am also dumb.

[tommykendall]

I may be lazy, but I am also dumb.


That's ok - I cannot read. :oops:

[jgh1204]

water+sand=mud mod

[BigBelly]

Here we go again!

I just use the pan with water. Being you have a hole on yours just get the replacement as previously suggested. I doubt you will see this topic reach it's peak, as in the past with such fervor and furious debate...

Either land or sea you will still get the same effects--even, stable temps. Go without, well...thats another topic that recently cropped up in the comp. section here on the forums.

[Mark]

Upon a thorough analysis of the engineering thermodynamic properties of sand versus water, I have concluded that the major difference between them is water is wet while sand is dry. The best of both worlds is wet kittly litter. For real men, removing the turds is optional.

[brdbbq]

For real men, removing the turds is optional.


I quit removing adds a unique flavor.

[racer_81]

so there. let the water vs sand discussions being (again).

:-)

Yeah but......... this is 'water vs. water and sand'. Thanks for the opinion racer.





You live in Aridzona. Water is scarce. Use what is plentiful. Sand.

:-)

[nucleargeek]

If you like a thicker bark on the meat, I'd go with the sand. If you don't really care, then either will work.

[Mark]

Since racer threw down the gauntlet..............

You live in Aridzona. Humidity is low. Use water.

[G$]

Gonna use both. My question was not one vs the other, or how to get thicker bark. Just wanted to know if using the sand plus my little water pan would provide additional thermal mass. I guess the obvious answer is yes - and I should have known it.

As for the general water vs no water question, since I have yet to weigh in: the correct answer is .............. water.

[Neil]

Wise man once said, "there is a reason they call it a 'water pan'"! Otherwise it would be called a sand pan, not to be confused with a sanpan.

[tommykendall]

not to be confused with a sanpan.


or taipan or bedpan.

[jminion]

I do not know the Dera setup but is there a reason that you can not set it with fire brick? I've used them in more than one offset to help temp stabilization. It's worked very well for over the years.

[BigBelly]

No reason at all. Actually, KC has a nice little setup going on with fire bricks in his Dera.

[G$]

I do not know the Dera setup but is there a reason that you can not set it with fire brick? I've used them in more than one offset to help temp stabilization. It's worked very well for over the years.

Correct, I will be putting firebrick in at some point. One benefit (perhaps it is a hinderence), is that the "sand pan" is situated right above the baffle from the firebox to smoke chamber, thus receiving and retaining heat directly.

[BBQchef33]

Bottom of my dera is lined with firebrick, but thats about 3 inches below the bottom of the waterpan. The brick offers more thermal mass, but wont act as the heatsink that the pan does.

[Arlin_MacRae]

Bottom of my dera is lined with firebrick, but thats about 3 inches below the bottom of the waterpan. The brick offers more thermal mass, but wont act as the heatsink that the pan does.

Is that because the bricks are lower than the entrance from the firebox? I would think that many bricks would suck up a LOT of heat. <scratches head>

[Jorge]

Bottom of my dera is lined with firebrick, but thats about 3 inches below the bottom of the waterpan. The brick offers more thermal mass, but wont act as the heatsink that the pan does.

Is that because the bricks are lower than the entrance from the firebox? I would think that many bricks would suck up a LOT of heat. <scratches head>

Unless I'm mistaken, which happens often, they should also radiate that heat unless you are using a pricey ceramic like they use on the space shuttle.

My understanding of the purpose of the bricks and the water/sand pan is to provide an object that will absorb and then radiate heat. If the temp from the firebox drops for a bit you still have the bricks and water pan to radiate heat as they gradually cool. They also absorb heat in the event of a spike rather than allowing ALL of the heat to immediately go to the meat. In the Bandera/SKD the water/sand pan also works in concert with the baffle to direct some of the heat to the far side of the chamber, creating a more even distribution of heat and smoke.

If I've been wrong all these years, I don't want to be right becuase it's working for me now.

[Arlin_MacRae]

If I've been wrong all these years, I don't want to be right becuase it's working for me now.

hehe Right on.

I understand the absorption/release theory and it makes perfect sense. I guess my concern is over the absorption process: wouldn't that keep starting temps WAY low until the bricks are hot? I usually like to get a quick run-up to operating temperatures because it's ealry in the morning, cold, whatever.

[Jorge]

I'm usually moving slow enough at that time that it doesn't matter to me. Maybe add some lump for the heat and quick burn to get things going. I'm sure those with more experience with lump will weigh in.

[BBQchef33]

Sorry, i was in a rush to post. (phone in ear mod).. What i meant was, the bricks are on the bottom, they absorb and radiate heat as designed and that helps to stablilize temps, and also speeds recovery after opening the door. BUT, with the water pan in its location, and with the baffle installed, the heat is forced to disperse and go down under and around the waterpan itself and disperse more evenly into the chamber. If you dont use the waterpan at all, then the heat will exit the firebox and shoot straight up into the chamber intstead of getting a bit of a circulating effect.

[racer_81]

I'm thinking that sand will be more stable over time in terms of absorbing and radiating heat than water, because water will evaporate. Yeah, you can refill, but you'll get more temp ups and downs as the water volume moves around.

[G$]

<SNIP> Yeah, you can refill, but you'll get more temp ups and downs as the water volume moves around.

I have wondered about this a little bit. on the few cooks I have done, Water evap was not an issue. Over 12 hours, I think i Added water once on each cook. (I may be wrong, but this is my recollection).

Of course, my mops were truly mops, and it is possible i was refilling the water pan woith sop eavery time i slopped it in there..... :)

[Mark]

Going back to the original discussion (Why NB, Weber, etc. call it a water pan) please consider the specific heat capacities of sand versus water, etc. Water wins.

Using the term absorb is technically incorrect. ABsorbents undergo a physical or chemical change. Conversely, the technically correct term ADsorbents. means the material does not undergo a chemical or physical change.

So what do "Brawney Paper Towels" really do; absorb or adsorp? A virtual purple hat will be awarded to the first correct answer.

[parrothead]

A virtual purple hat will be awarded to the first correct answer.

Let's see the hat first.