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CarolinaQue
05-27-2011, 01:46 PM
If you are a professional team, please have the decency to stay away from the amateur contests so the little guys can have the chance to get their confidence up and have hope for themselves when they decide to enter the pro level circuit!!! It just isn't right to beat up on the little guy's, no matter how bad you want a trophy!!!


Tim

Smoothsmoke
05-27-2011, 01:48 PM
Are their rules and regulations as to pros competing at amateur events?

If so, who enforces them, and in your case why wasn't it enforced?

Lake Dogs
05-27-2011, 01:56 PM
Curious, what percentage of "Pro" teams do you think actually make money at this (after you take in all the costs involved)? And of those that make a profit, how many make enough of a profit to actually do this truly professionally, where this IS their profession, so it pays for the power bill, plus food on the table, and those darned truck and house payments...?

VERY few. My point is that there are very few if any "Pro" teams. It's not like the NFL...

There are teams that compete largely in sanctioned cookoffs because the money tends to be better and they enjoy the level of competition, and those that dont. It's a hobby. Some are just very good at it.

CarolinaQue
05-27-2011, 02:16 PM
Curious, what percentage of "Pro" teams do you think actually make money at this (after you take in all the costs involved)? And of those that make a profit, how many make enough of a profit to actually do this truly professionally, where this IS their profession, so it pays for the power bill, plus food on the table, and those darned truck and house payments...?

VERY few. My point is that there are very few if any "Pro" teams. It's not like the NFL...

There are teams that compete largely in sanctioned cookoffs because the money tends to be better and they enjoy the level of competition, and those that dont. It's a hobby. Some are just very good at it.


I know that not many teams make money at competing, I understand what you are saying. But it's not about the money, it's about the principle of it. When a contest application says "amateur contest" and you roll in there under your catering companies name, and not your competition team name, it makes one look like they're doing something they know full well they shouldn't be doing.

It just seems pretty unfair to the teams that are just starting out and trying to get established when some one that's been competing on the pro side of things for the last 8 or so years comes along to steal the thunder. Some one else could have used the Traeger pellet cooker a lot more than the team that already has the professional level equipment.

CarolinaQue
05-27-2011, 02:17 PM
Are their rules and regulations as to pros competing at amateur events?

If so, who enforces them, and in your case why wasn't it enforced?


This wasn't my contest. It happened to a friend of mine.

Scottie
05-27-2011, 02:36 PM
Sorry, if the rules arent defined then i would do it.

We now have 'pro' contests that dont pay anything, except a state champioship, so more 'little guys' can get a taste of what a comp is all about. So i ask is that fair that State Championships are cheapened so the little local team can compete? It cant be both ways... speaking as a pro team.

Lake Dogs
05-27-2011, 02:40 PM
I know that not many teams make money at competing, I understand what you are saying. But it's not about the money, it's about the principle of it. When a contest application says "amateur contest" and you roll in there under your catering companies name, and not your competition team name, it makes one look like they're doing something they know full well they shouldn't be doing.

It just seems pretty unfair to the teams that are just starting out and trying to get established when some one that's been competing on the pro side of things for the last 8 or so years comes along to steal the thunder. Some one else could have used the Traeger pellet cooker a lot more than the team that already has the professional level equipment.

I never cared for calling it the "pro" side of things. I do understand as a novice going against some very accomplished competitors it can be tough. But truly, there's only sanctioned and un-sanctioned. Contests are contests... I will tell you; dont be fooled by the expensive banners and smokers (or tractor trailers as in MBN); on any given day you can win with your equipment however humble it may be.

I, for one, enjoy the competition level. To me I really haven't done anything until I've beaten someone worth a darn (like last outing I beat 2 previous Memphis In May GC's).

I feel for him (your friend), but it's just the game...

QansasjayhawQ
05-27-2011, 02:44 PM
That would definitely be up to the organizers to restrict the field to truly 'amatuers'.

And as far as I know, there are no really defined 'classes' of competitors. There are teams with tons of experience, and teams who are there for their first competition. They are all 'classified' as simply being there, as far as sanctioned events go.

Anything beyond that would be up to the organizers.

Have you (or your friend) spoken with the contest organizers? Most organizers I know are open to discussion so they can make their next event better.

CarolinaQue
05-27-2011, 02:51 PM
That would definitely be up to the organizers to restrict the field to truly 'amatuers'.

And as far as I know, there are no really defined 'classes' of competitors. There are teams with tons of experience, and teams who are there for their first competition. They are all 'classified' as simply being there, as far as sanctioned events go.

Anything beyond that would be up to the organizers.

Have you (or your friend) spoken with the contest organizers? Most organizers I know are open to discussion so they can make their next event better.


Yes, he does plan on talking to the organizer about it.

Shotgun
05-27-2011, 02:52 PM
I have done non-sanctioned events as fillers, warm-ups, or just to try new things. The ones I have done have always had a mix of "Pros and Amateurs" that mingled together and shared information about how sanctioned contests are run. Amateurs need to take advantage of having someone around with knowledge, most cooks are more than willing to help out the fellow cook.

CarolinaQue
05-27-2011, 02:53 PM
I understand what you guys are saying, I just wouldn't do it. The contest had no sanctioning entity behind it and wasn't affiliated with any BBQ association. Just seems like the pro athlete coming to high school practice to boost his ego to me.

CarolinaQue
05-27-2011, 02:56 PM
I have done non-sanctioned events as fillers, warm-ups, or just to try new things. The ones I have done have always had a mix of "Pros and Amateurs" that mingled together and shared information about how sanctioned contests are run. Amateurs need to take advantage of having someone around with knowledge, most cooks are more than willing to help out the fellow cook.


That would be great, but he was the only high level competitor there and he didn't compete under his team name, but rather, under his catering company name. No one there knew who they really were until the pictures started floating around and those of us that know who this person is told the other teams who they went up against. Seems shady to me. If there was nothing to worry about, why not just use his competition tem name?

gooose53
05-27-2011, 02:56 PM
I've been to contests that spelled out what a pro team is......a team that has competed in a 4 meat contest or other similar contest not considered a amateur contest. I'm not a pro by any means but I would not enter a amateur contest even if the rules didn't specify. Just my opinion.

Lake Dogs
05-27-2011, 03:01 PM
^^^ If it's defined like this above, then I understand. That's up to the organizer. Interesting though. I know PLENTY of fantastic nationally ranked chili cooks/competitors who just **** at barbecue contests. In the definition above I guess they'd be considered Pro....

Smoothsmoke
05-27-2011, 03:02 PM
The event your friend competed in, does it have a website where the rules are written?

YankeeBBQ
05-27-2011, 03:08 PM
he didn't compete under his team name, but rather, under his catering company name. No one there knew who they really were until the pictures started floating around and those of us that know who this person is told the other teams who they went up against. Seems shady to me. If there was nothing to worry about, why not just use his competition tem name?

Yeah that does seem shady. I mean why would he want to promote his business in a contest that didn't count for NEBS or KCBS Team of the year points. Super shady. That dirty bastard.

Brew-B-Q
05-27-2011, 03:11 PM
I was thinking about this the other day. There's a KCBS contest near my house this weekend that I can't cook because I'm between smokers. I thought about bringing my one WSM and doing the amateur rib cook, but I figured it wouldn't be worth all the crap I'd get from the KCBS teams that I'm used to cooking against. I only wanted to do it to have some fun, and I'm not a pro by any stretch, but it still didn't feel right. Now, if there was not a KCBS event going on, and it was billed as an amateur or whatever rib cook, I would do it.

Transformer BBQ
05-27-2011, 03:11 PM
I'll take the bait...

I compete as both Transformer as well as New England BBQ and Catering... check out results for New Hampshire or Cape Cod last year. When the contests are close to where my business is located, I tend to use that name especially if they aren't sanctioned. It's marketing. I never did anything to hide the fact that I have competed before, and actually used my Transformer BBQ email address to send in the application. Transformer BBQ t-shirt, logos on my storage bins, stickers on my trailer... I wasn't hiding the fact of who I was.

There was nothing defining a "pro" team, which I think is made up term. In my mind there are about 4 teams in the country that are considered pro's. I can name at least three other teams at the event that I have competed against at other contests. One of those teams got two first places at the Eliot Maine contest last year... so it isn't as though I was the only person who has been entered in a KCBS event before. One team was talking about how they are going to the American Royal this year...

Transformer BBQ
05-27-2011, 03:18 PM
oh... and it hasn't been 8 years... my first ever contest will be 5 years ago in July (my second contest will be 4 years ago in June)... and ask my friends; I've never won one before.

CarolinaQue
05-27-2011, 03:21 PM
No ones baiting you Brendan, just didn't understand the reasoning is all. I was of the impression that it was an amateur contest and don't consider you, or the other teams that have high level experience amateurs is all.

BBQchef33
05-27-2011, 03:26 PM
Sorry, i too have to disagree.. there are no hard and fast lines drawn to what defines a pro, so anyone can show up anywhere...

If an organizer wants to make an event amateur, he should specifiy something to narrow it down.

"First time teams only"
"Less than n contests under your belt"
'cooked less than n contests in the last 12 months".. anythign to specify thast he wants only beginners.

Whatever...

now keep in mind that many of us, the first time out to a contest still have been cooking for 10-15-20 years, prior to hitting the circuit.. are THEY amateurs.:confused:. i think not. Some first time teams can clean the clocks of many seasoned chefs. there are no dividing lines.. and more importantly, as it has been said 100's of times here..

Anyone can win, on ANY given Day.


WE kind of discussed this a while back, different, but the same..


http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?p=716599&highlight=pro+judging#post716599

Start at post #120... it discusses what folks thinks of "professional" tags.

My take on it.. Heres an excerpt from one of my posts when(conversly of your point), a member here though he was a "pro" because he took a walk. Different case, same point though.

2 - Get out of your head that getting a check makes you a pro. Your NOT, I'm not and 99.8% of us here ARE NOT. We are hobbiests, we are enthusiasts, and some even are pitmasters, but we(you included) are NOT Professional Pitmasters or BBQchefs. I don't care how much CIA or culinary experience you have. 2-3 contests and a walk does NOT qualify anyone as a pro on this circuit. Mike Davis, Ray Lampe, Rod Gray, Johnny Trigg.. etc.. they make their living doing BBQ. They have years and years and YEARS of experience and cook more in 8 months than some of us would do in a lifetime. We are the weekend warriors, they are the pitmasters and the folks who will hand us our heads with their eyes closed and a bag of lump. Teams Like I-que, I smell smoke, Cancer sucks, etc..., they are climbing that ladder rung by rung and paying their dues. Its the guys of THAT caliber that qualify as the "PROFESSIONALS". Look up the credentials of Great Grills of Fire, The boys form Tornado Alley, Munching Hogs at the Hilton, Quau, to name a few. But to beat your chest because you got a paycheck is loading yourself into the cannon of disappointment. Slow down, and learn from those around you, or you will be humbled in the blink of a eye. I'm heading to the the American Royal Invitational and possible The Jack this year, and honestly I'm scared chit of what I'm up against and I have been cooking BBQ for 25 years. There are REAL PROS out there.

After 25 years of cooking BBQ and 4 years competing in about 20 contests(4-5 a year), I have a table of trophies, a got bunch of checks.. but I will NEVER claim to be a PROFESSIONAL. I am still learning from the members here and on the circuit, and I respect the opinions and advice of those that offer it. Especially those that know better than I. I won't dismiss their advice and fight for my right to deviate. I take the advice and decide if I want to use it and win, or conversely, try to change the game.

Lake Dogs
05-27-2011, 03:27 PM
^^^ I do understand if an organizer tries to limit the field, and that's surely up to them if that's what they want to do. But truly the devil is in the details. What IS and isn't a "Pro" team; what is and isn't an accomplished team, for that matter what is and isn't an accomplished barbecue cook, or an accomplished meat cook (as in the earlier examples). It's tough. A great steak cook doesn't mean you're worth a darn at barbecue. Reverse too; I had to explain to an organizer locally who basically begged me to compete in their steak cookoff that my smoker doesn't cook steaks; steaks cooked at 250 degrees are AWEFUL. I digress.

That's why there are basically accomplished barbecue cooks and not-nearly-as-accomplished barbecue cooks; there really aren't pro's and amateurs. AND, just because you haven't won a contest doesn't mean you cant beat Myron or Scottie. Go out and compete. Beat 'em!

Dr_KY
05-27-2011, 03:30 PM
What if a 'professional team' takes consistent DAL's or very close to the bottom of the scoring table every time they go out should they still not compete in amateur events?

Lake Dogs
05-27-2011, 03:34 PM
Poob, while the guys you mentioned are certainly barbecue professionals and accomplished competitors, one could argue easily that as their sole and primary source of incomes aren't from contest winnings that they aren't "Pro" competitors. Pro barbecue guys, yes, but not pro competitors... I'm not sure if there are any pro competitors, are there? Myron and most of the others derive their incomes from all over, being books, and TV, sponsorships, selling equipment, and barbecue joints...

Ford
05-27-2011, 03:51 PM
Like Phil said, what defines a "pro"? At a minimum I'd say winning a GC in a sanctioned contest. But even then a person could get lucky in their first contest (it has happened) and then not win again. So would they be a pro?

Now as to the team that cooked a local contest using their "business name" I think that's just good business for them. Doesn't matter as long as they were within the rules for entering then they did nothing wrong. Getting the local trophy is great advertising.

What I will say is coming on here crying poor me is probably not cool. Man up and cook against whoever shows up. Prove your the best. Be proud of what you cook and if it comes in first, second or DAL so be it.

YankeeBBQ
05-27-2011, 03:51 PM
As the great Charlie Sheen would say WHINING ! err ah wait no that's not what he would say. Where's the damn delete button.....:icon_blush:

Scottie
05-27-2011, 03:52 PM
I was thinking about this the other day. There's a KCBS contest near my house this weekend that I can't cook because I'm between smokers. I thought about bringing my one WSM and doing the amateur rib cook, but I figured it wouldn't be worth all the crap I'd get from the KCBS teams that I'm used to cooking against. I only wanted to do it to have some fun, and I'm not a pro by any stretch, but it still didn't feel right. Now, if there was not a KCBS event going on, and it was billed as an amateur or whatever rib cook, I would do it.


Why didnt you ask for a smoker, i could have loaned you one. AND we wouldnt of made that much fun of you... especially if you didnt win the amateur contest....
:shocked:

TN_BBQ
05-27-2011, 03:53 PM
I've been to contests that spelled out what a pro team is......a team that has competed in a 4 meat contest or other similar contest not considered a amateur contest. I'm not a pro by any means but I would not enter a amateur contest even if the rules didn't specify. Just my opinion.

There's a local one around here that simply says teams can't enter any category that they've won at a sanctioned event.

Pretty much only grand championship teams would be totally excluded. It would put them out of the running for this local event grand championship race, but I guess they could enter the other categories.

I personally don't have any problem with any of it, so long as the rules are clear (adjectives like "amateur" are way too vague). Then it is up to me to decide what I want to do.

Another thing. I suspect they have room on their board of directors for folks that want to volunteer their time to make their event a success.

drbbq
05-27-2011, 03:56 PM
There are some imaginary classes of Amateur and Pro that some seem to really think are important. Unfortunately unless the organizer does it there really are no such designations. There probably should be but it's just another thing on a long list of KCBS things that just never get fixed.

YankeeBBQ
05-27-2011, 04:00 PM
There are some imaginary classes of Amateur and Pro that some seem to really think are important. Unfortunately unless the organizer does it there really are no such designations. There probably should be but it's just another thing on a long list of KCBS things that just never get fixed.

This contest had nothing to do with KCBS. In fact if KCBS knew about it they probably would have threatened to sue the contest because all of the teams cooked chicken, ribs, pork and brisket.

BBQchef33
05-27-2011, 04:09 PM
Poob, while the guys you mentioned are certainly barbecue professionals and accomplished competitors, one could argue easily that as their sole and primary source of incomes aren't from contest winnings that they aren't "Pro" competitors. Pro barbecue guys, yes, but not pro competitors... I'm not sure if there are any pro competitors, are there? Myron and most of the others derive their incomes from all over, being books, and TV, sponsorships, selling equipment, and barbecue joints...


just picked some big names to make the point. And most of them i think make the living in the world of BBQ, I include sponsorships, restaurateurs, books, tv.. all that stuff in addition to cooking.. IMO, those are the professionals, and honestly, it should have nothing to do with entering a contest. I can see some of them so heavily involved in all aspects of BBQ but not competing. Does that make them LESS of a professional? (I guess that can be a different debate)..

AZScott
05-27-2011, 04:42 PM
I find it odd that amateur teams wouldn't want to see how they stack up against teams that compete in a fun local contest. In AZ we have started having small fun contests that could be considered amateur but everyone is invited to participate. They are set up to include a competition meat along with something like best burger so although competitors have a leg up on the comp meats it's anyone's game on the other category.

My opinion has always been that given an easy comp versus a competition where I fully expect awesome teams to trample me, I'm picking the one with the toughest competition. Winning is awesome but I have found that getting my butt handed to me is an incredibly positive experience. When my butt's handed to me at a comp with great teams, the words they said during our talks or after they tried my food is worth gold.

drbbq
05-27-2011, 04:50 PM
This contest had nothing to do with KCBS. In fact if KCBS knew about it they probably would have threatened to sue the contest because all of the teams cooked chicken, ribs, pork and brisket.

Fine but if KCBS had some good criteria for this I'd bet a lot of people would use it as their baseline.

Dr_KY
05-27-2011, 05:01 PM
Didn't Mista step on the scene with a drum and walked over some well known / professional teams? For me it's not the banners,sponsors, equipment or history it's the challenge of shooting for the dig dogs that I would love.

Capn Kev
05-27-2011, 05:02 PM
I understand what you guys are saying, I just wouldn't do it. The contest had no sanctioning entity behind it and wasn't affiliated with any BBQ association. Just seems like the pro athlete coming to high school practice to boost his ego to me.

Please give us some specifics... What type of comp was it? Where was the comp? What was the payout? ...and what "pro" team showed up? Frankly, if the limitations are not defined, I can see it happening every time. Also, how do you define "pro"? I've cooked in 14 or so "professional" comps. I have yet to make any type of profit. I've had about $5,000 in winnings, but my costs to compete in the 14 contests far exceed that amount. The only reason I do comps is to a) improve my skills, b) meet new friends, and c) build my reputation because I'm starting a BBQ restaurant/catering company.

CarolinaQue
05-27-2011, 05:45 PM
As the great Charlie Sheen would say WHINING ! err ah wait no that's not what he would say. Where's the damn delete button.....:icon_blush:



No "WHINING" here...I just don't think that some one that has cooked on the circuit for 3 years consistantly and 5 years collectively should classify themselves as "amateur" and compete in a contest that references "amateur contest" as being the focus of it.

Like they say, just because something is legal doesn't mean it's ethical. Maybe I just have different ethics?

CarolinaQue
05-27-2011, 05:47 PM
Please give us some specifics... What type of comp was it? Where was the comp? What was the payout? ...and what "pro" team showed up? Frankly, if the limitations are not defined, I can see it happening every time. Also, how do you define "pro"? I've cooked in 14 or so "professional" comps. I have yet to make any type of profit. I've had about $5,000 in winnings, but my costs to compete in the 14 contests far exceed that amount. The only reason I do comps is to a) improve my skills, b) meet new friends, and c) build my reputation because I'm starting a BBQ restaurant/catering company.


No names need to be mentioned. Not here to trash the person or the team.

In regards to your analogy. If someone has to take out a business loan to start a business, do they consider themselves a "professional" before or after they pay off those loans? My point being, does making a profit constitute being a professional?

CarolinaQue
05-27-2011, 05:48 PM
Like Phil said, what defines a "pro"? At a minimum I'd say winning a GC in a sanctioned contest. But even then a person could get lucky in their first contest (it has happened) and then not win again. So would they be a pro?

Now as to the team that cooked a local contest using their "business name" I think that's just good business for them. Doesn't matter as long as they were within the rules for entering then they did nothing wrong. Getting the local trophy is great advertising.

What I will say is coming on here crying poor me is probably not cool. Man up and cook against whoever shows up. Prove your the best. Be proud of what you cook and if it comes in first, second or DAL so be it.

I'm not crying poor me. I didn't cook in the contest.

Fishiest1
05-27-2011, 06:12 PM
I can see where the Carolinaque is coming from, most here certainly would not enter backyard having that kind of experience. It might not be written in the rules but everything doesn't have to be either. Something are just right and others are wrong with out there being definitions. JMO

MilitantSquatter
05-27-2011, 06:28 PM
Just curious... Is this the contest I think that is being referred to

........ Mann's Orchard's Smoke Off ??

http://www.mannorchards.com/1_14_Johnny-Black-BBQ-Smoke-Off.html

Both the contest sign in link above and the text state open to both amateur and professionals...

I'm confused :confused:


This event will be held on Saturday, May 22nd and Sunday, May 23rd at Mann Orchards in Methuen, MA. This BBQ smoke off is open to all amateur and professional barbeques in our area.






I

redneck cooker
05-27-2011, 06:49 PM
IMHO, if you/we cook where there is money won and accepted then you are a Pro cook...I dont care if it is a pro or ametur cook off if its close and has a good pay out Im there..:becky::heh:

Dale P
05-27-2011, 07:23 PM
My son has cooked 2 amatuer contests and used all of my equipment and won them both. I think he is a pro. Cheating little farker.

CallMeThree
05-27-2011, 07:34 PM
[CENTER]This event will be held on Saturday, May 22nd and Sunday, May 23rd at Mann Orchards in Methuen, MA. This BBQ smoke off is open to all amateur and professional barbeques in our area.


That particular link is for 2010, not 2011. The 2011 "label" is different. "3rd Annual Amature Applewood Smoke-Off".

(yes, I know -- Amature was misspelled by them).

Lake Dogs
05-27-2011, 07:35 PM
No names need to be mentioned. Not here to trash the person or the team.

In regards to your analogy. If someone has to take out a business loan to start a business, do they consider themselves a "professional" before or after they pay off those loans? My point being, does making a profit constitute being a professional?

I think the IRS defines your profession as 51% of your net income (after expenses).

When their contest winnings (after all the contest expenses are deducted) are 51% of their income, then yeah, they're a professional barbecue contest cook.

Even the greatest of the great probably dont do that (above). I wasn't trying to slight them by any stretch, just trying to bring up a point that not many if any are by that definition a Pro. I mean, by your definition, then I became a Pro in 2008 winning a few thousand dollars. However, all those winnings did just BARELY cover the costs. Luckily I'm a professional at something else that pays the bills...

Right now probably the most winning team is Bub-Ba-Q; who happens to be a brethren (sorry if I mis-spelled it). Oh, by the way, he owns barbecue restaurants, and that's his profession. He's a restauranteur... That's his profession. He happens to be a helluva competitor.


To the KCBS defining what a Pro is, what about the other barbecue cooks who dont participate in the KCBS "circuit"? I dont think Bubba Grills does KCBS, but they do probably 12 contests each year, and they just won Ribs at Memphis In May, and I *think* they were RGC. Gotta watch any one sanctioning body defining what is and isn't a pro.

daveinwestmont
05-27-2011, 07:47 PM
All, I will be cooking tomorrow in Westmont. Second year for ribs.. Second time ever in a competitive environment. I'm going to have fun and try my best. Will there be teams with more experience, sure, do I care no!!! I'm out to have fun learn and see what happens. It's a hobby, not a source of income. As for next weekend I will be trying my luck in a small event with all four meats and I know I will be competing against others but mostly against myself. IE - did i time myself right, did I prep correctly, did I try my best... Again much respect to all that have opinions but lets have some fun.... Come stop bye, I will be the guy with the red weber and the UDS...

MilitantSquatter
05-27-2011, 07:47 PM
That particular link is for 2010, not 2011. The 2011 "label" is different. "3rd Annual Amature Applewood Smoke-Off".

(yes, I know -- Amature was misspelled by them).

Thanks for clearing that up.. Would seem then that the organizer at least put some more thought into by removing "professional" it this year.

I agree with some of the others though, that this is an arbitrary term at best.

Lake Dogs
05-27-2011, 07:56 PM
Thanks for clearing that up.. Would seem then that the organizer at least put some more thought into by removing "professional" it this year.

I agree with some of the others though, that this is an arbitrary term at best.

That's really all I've been trying to say. It's arbitrary, and very gray. There are very few black and whites in this one.

Aside, for me, whether I'm considered a Pro or an amateur (I dont think myself either, just a hobbyist competitor that has had a little success here and there), I'd much rather compete against the accomplished competitors. That way when I do good I truly feel like I've accomplished something. Otherwise I'm learning, and frankly I'd rather learn amongst the best. Otherwise, IMHO, why compete at all?

CarolinaQue
05-27-2011, 08:09 PM
That's really all I've been trying to say. It's arbitrary, and very gray. There are very few black and whites in this one.

Aside, for me, whether I'm considered a Pro or an amateur (I dont think myself either, just a hobbyist competitor that has had a little success here and there), I'd much rather compete against the accomplished competitors. That way when I do good I truly feel like I've accomplished something. Otherwise I'm learning, and frankly I'd rather learn amongst the best. Otherwise, IMHO, why compete at all?


I agree...unless a contest is being pitched as an amateur contest. And from what I've been told, that's what it was suppose to be. From what I've heard, even the contest organizer was upset when he found out the the winning team had been around the block and back on the BBQ circuit. Maybe it's partially his fault for not being clearer or doing better screening. Maybe he's blowing smoke to cover his own backside? Weather we agree or not, thanks for your opinions!!!

CallMeThree
05-27-2011, 08:13 PM
I noticed that their present link corrected the "Amature" typo :-).

YankeeBBQ
05-27-2011, 08:15 PM
No "WHINING" here...I just don't think that some one that has cooked on the circuit for 3 years consistantly and 5 years collectively should classify themselves as "amateur" and compete in a contest that references "amateur contest" as being the focus of it.

Like they say, just because something is legal doesn't mean it's ethical. Maybe I just have different ethics?

Certainly looks like whining from where I'm sitting. I find it sad that not one person in this thread or any other thread about this contest bothered to congratulate the winner. That's very unbrethren like.

If you or 'your friend' can't take getting beat by whoever then perhaps competition is not for you. :thumb:

Bentley
05-27-2011, 08:29 PM
Hey, if I had been given the chance to play against Michael Jordan, I would have taken it...And I never even played BB...and cant dribble with my left hand and have to look at the ball when I dribble with my right...I would have taken the shot...

drbbq
05-27-2011, 08:50 PM
To the KCBS defining what a Pro is, what about the other barbecue cooks who dont participate in the KCBS "circuit"? I dont think Bubba Grills does KCBS, but they do probably 12 contests each year, and they just won Ribs at Memphis In May, and I *think* they were RGC. Gotta watch any one sanctioning body defining what is and isn't a pro.

Like it or not KCBS has hundreds more contests than MBN or the FBA and they are the swinging dick when it comes to BBQ sanctioning outside of Texas. And Bubba Grills cooks at Lakeland Florida in the KCBS contest every January.

redneck cooker
05-27-2011, 08:52 PM
To the KCBS defining what a Pro is, what about the other barbecue cooks who dont participate in the KCBS "circuit"? .


and what gives KCBS the right to make that statement?:hand:...It isnt the only santioning body or the best?:doh:

Q-Dat
05-27-2011, 09:38 PM
I believe that if the contest is separated into "backyard" and "pro" divisions then I believe that the teams that honestly feel like they can hang with the big boys should stay out of the backyard division. Teams that don't feel this way should probably hang back until they do.

However, if a team competes in backyard alot and consistently wins then they should really think about moving up.

rlncookinbbq
05-27-2011, 09:42 PM
Once u cook as a pro stay out of am contests. Its just not the right thing to do and most cookers know its not right.




RLN Just sayin

CarolinaQue
05-27-2011, 09:43 PM
Certainly looks like whining from where I'm sitting. I find it sad that not one person in this thread or any other thread about this contest bothered to congratulate the winner. That's very unbrethren like.

If you or 'your friend' can't take getting beat by whoever then perhaps competition is not for you. :thumb:



You obviously missed my point. Not that I care. Or am I or others not entitled to an opinion?

I/we can handle getting beat just as well as the rest.

I can hold my own just fine!

YankeeBBQ
05-27-2011, 10:00 PM
You obviously missed my point. Not that I care. Or am I or others not entitled to an opinion?

I/we can handle getting beat just as well as the rest.

I can hold my own just fine!

I get the point. With all your "from what I hear", "from what I've been told" from all you've made up and calling someone shady. Get your facts straight, grow a set and grow up while your at it, I mean you did compare yourself to a high school athlete. The team that won must have developed some awesome bbq cooking muscles (great analogy...NOT).

CarolinaQue
05-27-2011, 10:13 PM
I get the point. With all your "from what I hear", "from what I've been told" from all you've made up and calling someone shady. Get your facts straight, grow a set and grow up while your at it, I mean you did compare yourself to a high school athlete. The team that won must have developed some awesome bbq cooking muscles (great analogy...NOT).


I didn't call anyone shady specifically. What I said was that it appeared shady, there is a difference. And I haven't made any thing up.

And where did I compare myself to a pro athlete exactly? I used an analogy of a pro athlete vs high school, but I don't see where I used me as the example. Or is this in fairytale land?

I guess some one can't have an opinion if it's different than yours?

Lake Dogs
05-27-2011, 10:19 PM
Like it or not KCBS has hundreds more contests than MBN or the FBA and they are the swinging dick when it comes to BBQ sanctioning outside of Texas. And Bubba Grills cooks at Lakeland Florida in the KCBS contest every January.


I didnt mean to insult KCBS or insinuate that it wasnt the swinging meat in most places. I think most of us are quite aware of it. In many places, that I'm aware of, it's about the only meat, isn't it?

You're possibly quite right on the Lakeland comp, it wouldnt surprise me.

My point was simply that there are many competitors in many areas that compete in other sanctioning bodies other than KCBS. That's not a slight on KCBS; it's just what it is. Any one sanctioning body, even the big kahuna, defining what is and isn't "pro" is much like the majority governing political party deciding what is a patriotic American. I think not.

Crash
05-27-2011, 10:20 PM
We've cooked three backyard events and a few dozen sanctioned events over the past 5 years. All of the backyard events were done after we had at least a dozen sanctioned events under our belt. Of the three backyard events that we did, we also cooked a sanctioned event on the very same day, which means 8 turn ins in 4 hours. If anything, we were at a disadvantage against the other cooks that only had 4 turn ins that day.

Personally, I want to compete against the best in any event we do. If someone doesnt like competing against a team that is better than them, competion BBQ (of any sort) probably isnt what they should pursue.

jrbBBQ
05-27-2011, 10:21 PM
This is my first year ever competing in any kind of cooking contest. It all started by sitting around drinking a few beers with my a couple friends. I haven't even BBQ'd all that long, up until this year, I had never cooked a brisket. I DIDN'T even think once about entering some 'backyard' division. The first contest I cooked at had a former winner of the Jack in the field. I got into this because I thought it would be fun to see how my food would stack up against some of the best BBQ cooks in America. Like everyone has said, it's a hobby. I know I'm not gonna win everytime I go out, but at least I learn something and meet some great people at BBQ contests. Amatuer or Pro... does it matter, everyone is doing it becuase they enjoy it, not because they are out to destroy to moral of anyone who finishes lower them.

YankeeBBQ
05-27-2011, 10:23 PM
I guess some one can't have an opinion if it's different than yours?

Which opinion is that ? That a team seems shady for competing under their catering company name ? That opinion seems idiotic to me. Keep in mind I'm not calling anyone an idiot specifically.

Smoothsmoke
05-27-2011, 10:43 PM
Transformers, congrats on the win. Will you be defending your title next year? :boxing:

Transformer BBQ
05-27-2011, 11:14 PM
You obviously do have an opinion on the matter... you got on one of the most read BBQ websites in the world to start a thread. You own every post for your screen name, your friend can have his own opinion on his own account.

I'll skip the obvious fact that I don't make a living off contests, and just say i don't consider myself a professional anything. I actually have a finance and computer science degree... and took up BBQ as a hobby... I'm not even a professional at making stock, peeling onions, or chopping celery. Those are actual facts... not stuff you heard from some guy who you know, who had a buddy, who heard that at 31 Flavors Ferris was very sick.

I have been pretty open on the fact that I am the team you think is shady... skirting around actually mentioning my name is lame, just say it... Honestly your vagueness is more shady than anything I did. Calling my business and my team out as hiding isn't something I'm going to allow... its not true. My business is advertised as "Competition BBQ without Competition"... and lists my Transformer BBQ team name as well as my business partners (I Smell Smoke!!! since I'd hate to get a post about how I kept that a secret). The NEBS site, where I got the info on the contest... regularly has things from my business and my team. The point was to promote my business, so hiding that would have been a little counter productive.

Final thoughts: I stopped posting on and reading bbq sites because of this type of garbage. By bashing not only my team, but my business you did call me out... you, not "your friend" called me out. I am done commenting on something you heard third person, but did forward your posts about the organizer to him just to confirm he did say those things. I'll be happy to share his reply if he's ok with that.

CarolinaQue
05-27-2011, 11:14 PM
Which opinion is that ? That a team seems shady for competing under their catering company name ? That opinion seems idiotic to me. Keep in mind I'm not calling anyone an idiot specifically.


In the big picture, with the impression that it was an "amateur" contest, to some, it did. After he explained why, it makes sense. Like I said, at the time it seemed suspicious until he explained.

Don't get me wrong, he deserves what he's earned. I don't want to take any thing away from that and I apologize if I did.

But from what I understand, the contest organizer wanted to keep this an amateur, backyard level contest. If that opinion was intended but not promoted as such, then it is the organizers fault. Hopefully, the one next year won't leave any room for misinterpretation?

I'm just giving my opinion from the way I see it and the information I have available. If I'm wrong, I'm big enough to admit it if there is information contrary to what I know.

Smoothsmoke
05-27-2011, 11:34 PM
Transformer, will you sell them the Traeger you won at a discounted rate to stop the pouting already? :drama:

MattG
05-28-2011, 07:37 PM
Our team will be trying to cook at 4 competitions this year (all KCBS). Some of these competitions do not have a backyard section. So we cook with what I call the big boys. But I preferred to cook in the back yard ones, it's cheaper and a good place to work on our timing . I remember last year at Pigs And Peaches (http://www.kennesaw.com/pigs-peaches-bbq-festival/ ) a team that competes mostly with the "big boys" cooked with the back yard and did very well. Some people got upset.

boogiesnap
05-28-2011, 10:00 PM
while i do doubt a team with little to no experience is going to have good luck going up against an experienced team, the winner of this contest last year(which was an inexperienced team)went on to win NEBS rookie team of the year. it just goes to show if ya got good Q, experienced in comp or not, it'll come through, and you'll do OK. learn a bit each time out and you'll get better and better results.

when it comes to competition BBQ, i kinda think the only difference between backyard/amatuer and professional is the entry fee. it's the exact opposite of the true definition of the word professional. the pro BBQ'ers pay large entry fees consistently to play, backyard/amatuer is low or free....

MilitantSquatter
05-28-2011, 10:07 PM
when it comes to competition BBQ, i kinda think the only difference between backyard/amatuer and professional is the entry fee. it's the exact opposite of the true definition of the word professional. the pro BBQ'ers pay large entry fees to play, backyard/amatuer is low or free....

Also something I think is important is the difference in how a cook/team carries themselves.. Forget for a minute about KCBS or any other organizations potential future definitions, regarding $$ earned, awards won, cost of entry etc...

In order to have the balls to call yourself a professional, one needs to conduct themselves accordingly... Dirty cooking sites, dirty equipment, drunkeness and not lending a needed hand, word or advice or encouragement to a new team do not make a real pro.

boogiesnap
05-28-2011, 10:12 PM
Also something I think is important is the difference in how a cook/team carries themselves.. Forget for a minute about KCBS or any other organizations potential future definitions, regarding $$ earned, awards won, cost of entry etc...

In order to have the balls to call yourself a professional, one needs to conduct themselves accordingly... Dirty cooking sites, dirty equipment, drunkeness and not lending a needed hand, word or advice or encouragement to a new team do not make a real pro.

very good point. and certainly worth mention. :thumb:

QansasjayhawQ
05-28-2011, 10:54 PM
Yeah that does seem shady. I mean why would he want to promote his business in a contest that didn't count for NEBS or KCBS Team of the year points. Super shady. That dirty bastard.
Because if he uses his catering company's name, then his costs of competing in the event is a deductible business expense.

QansasjayhawQ
05-28-2011, 11:20 PM
I like to compare competition BBQ to the early days of NASCAR (in case you hadn't noticed). There are a lot of similarities. One of the similarities is drivers who never ever won a race . . . but had lots of experience and were competing for many years. These drivers were considered profesionals: Jimmy Means, J.D. McDuffie, Chad Little, Robert Pressley, Dick Trickle, Rick Wilson and Wally Dallenbach all match the description of never winning a single race.

But who would call any one of those drivers less than a professional?

Winning doesn't make someone a professional. It's how they conduct themselves. Think of the KCBS CBJs. I know that most of the judges I've met are true professionals conducting themselves to the highest standards. But are they 'paid'? No. But they are serious about their duties and they do their best in every aspect of their functions.

What makes an amateur? Someone who has no idea what they are doing beyond the most basic instructions. (Cook meat over fire.)

BUT - in every competition I've been involved in, including a single non-sanctioned event, everyone has been in the same 'class'. Competitor. Either you are - or you're not. Sure, it's tough to step up if you don't have experience, but that experience of stepping up will be more valuable to you than you will ever realize.

So don't bemoan professionals being in the competition. Be grateful that they are there to learn from and that you, as an amateur, can gain a lot from them being there.

BBQchef33
05-28-2011, 11:51 PM
oh well..:mod: .cats out of the bag...Congratulations Transformer!!

Crash
05-29-2011, 04:40 AM
Very well said!

I like to compare competition BBQ to the early days of NASCAR (in case you hadn't noticed). There are a lot of similarities. One of the similarities is drivers who never ever won a race . . . but had lots of experience and were competing for many years. These drivers were considered profesionals: Jimmy Means, J.D. McDuffie, Chad Little, Robert Pressley, Dick Trickle, Rick Wilson and Wally Dallenbach all match the description of never winning a single race.

But who would call any one of those drivers less than a professional?

Winning doesn't make someone a professional. It's how they conduct themselves. Think of the KCBS CBJs. I know that most of the judges I've met are true professionals conducting themselves to the highest standards. But are they 'paid'? No. But they are serious about their duties and they do their best in every aspect of their functions.

What makes an amateur? Someone who has no idea what they are doing beyond the most basic instructions. (Cook meat over fire.)

BUT - in every competition I've been involved in, including a single non-sanctioned event, everyone has been in the same 'class'. Competitor. Either you are - or you're not. Sure, it's tough to step up if you don't have experience, but that experience of stepping up will be more valuable to you than you will ever realize.

So don't bemoan professionals being in the competition. Be grateful that they are there to learn from and that you, as an amateur, can gain a lot from them being there.

cubfan1968
05-29-2011, 09:52 AM
I really don't care who I compete against. My main goal in these contests is do the best that I can, have fun and meet some good folks. In the past 3 contests we have been surrounded by 3 teams that competed in Pittmasters last year and done very well and the team who won the whole shootin match, and the team who placed second in the American Royal Invatational. I found all 4 of these teams to be great folks.

My take is don't worry about it and do the best you can.

Sherwood 3 BBQ

CarolinaQue
05-29-2011, 09:58 AM
I really don't care who I compete against. My main goal in these contests is do the best that I can, have fun and meet some good folks. In the past 3 contests we have been surrounded by 3 teams that competed in Pittmasters last year and done very well and the team who won the whole shootin match, and the team who placed second in the American Royal Invatational. I found all 4 of these teams to be great folks.

My take is don't worry about it and do the best you can.

Sherwood 3 BBQ


My question to you cubfan is this: Did you go to a competition that you knew would have big names, or the potential that big names would be there, or did you go to an amateur contest, thinking that you would be competing against other amateurs just starting out, and they showed up?

CarolinaQue
05-29-2011, 10:04 AM
Here's the online advertisement for the contest:

http://www.mannorchards.com/index.php?p=2_15


Here is the definition of a "professional":

professional [prəˈfɛʃənəl]
adj 1. of, relating to, suitable for, or engaged in as a profession
2. engaging in an activity for gain or as a means of livelihood
3. extremely competent in a job, etc.
4. undertaken or performed for gain or by people who are paid

n 1. (Business / Professions) a person who belongs to or engages in one of the professions
2. a person who engages for his livelihood in some activity also pursued by amateurs
3. a person who engages in an activity with great competence
4. (General Sporting Terms) an expert player of a game who gives instruction, esp to members of a club by whom he is hired


So, how much experience should one have before they are no longer considered an amatuer in competition BBQ?

Sawdustguy
05-29-2011, 10:36 AM
So, how much experience should one have before they are no longer considered an amatuer in competition BBQ?

We have been cooking competively for 6 years. Our first contest was a KCBS sanctioned event. We dove right in and did not have the benefit of an amatuer contest to prepare ourselves with. We have never won a contest, although we have come very close a few times (RGC). We run a tidy site, conduct ourselves accordingly and are always willing to lend a hand if asked. We cook for fun. We are a family team that do this to spend a weekend of fun together. Would you consider us professional?

cubfan1968
05-29-2011, 10:51 AM
My question to you cubfan is this: Did you go to a competition that you knew would have big names, or the potential that big names would be there, or did you go to an amateur contest, thinking that you would be competing against other amateurs just starting out, and they showed up?

Before I entered my first contest a friend told me folks from all around participate in these contests. I figured if you travel some distance you might be pretty good. So yes, I did think there might be "pro" teams there. This pro and amateur thing has me puzzled. If you are doing something for money you are no longer an amatuer. And if your willing to pony up the $$$ for the entry you must think your BBQ is pretty good also.

CarolinaQue
05-29-2011, 11:04 AM
We have been cooking competively for 6 years. Our first contest was a KCBS sanctioned event. We dove right in and did not have the benefit of an amatuer contest to prepare ourselves with. We have never won a contest, although we have come very close a few times (RGC). We run a tidy site, conduct ourselves accordingly and are always willing to lend a hand if asked. We cook for fun. We are a family team that do this to spend a weekend of fun together. Would you consider us professional?


If you took RGC in a sanctioned contest, I would not consider you an amatuer, that's for sure!!!

Here's a question for you. Now that you've placed and won a few awards, would you enter a contest listed as amatuer?

Smoothsmoke
05-29-2011, 11:31 AM
:tape2:

CarolinaQue
05-29-2011, 11:47 AM
You obviously do have an opinion on the matter... you got on one of the most read BBQ websites in the world to start a thread. You own every post for your screen name, your friend can have his own opinion on his own account.

I'll skip the obvious fact that I don't make a living off contests, and just say i don't consider myself a professional anything. I actually have a finance and computer science degree... and took up BBQ as a hobby... I'm not even a professional at making stock, peeling onions, or chopping celery. Those are actual facts... not stuff you heard from some guy who you know, who had a buddy, who heard that at 31 Flavors Ferris was very sick.

I have been pretty open on the fact that I am the team you think is shady... skirting around actually mentioning my name is lame, just say it... Honestly your vagueness is more shady than anything I did. Calling my business and my team out as hiding isn't something I'm going to allow... its not true. My business is advertised as "Competition BBQ without Competition"... and lists my Transformer BBQ team name as well as my business partners (I Smell Smoke!!! since I'd hate to get a post about how I kept that a secret). The NEBS site, where I got the info on the contest... regularly has things from my business and my team. The point was to promote my business, so hiding that would have been a little counter productive.

Final thoughts: I stopped posting on and reading bbq sites because of this type of garbage. By bashing not only my team, but my business you did call me out... you, not "your friend" called me out. I am done commenting on something you heard third person, but did forward your posts about the organizer to him just to confirm he did say those things. I'll be happy to share his reply if he's ok with that.


So considering the fact that you charge people to take classes on how to cook competition bbq the way you do wouldn't classify you as a professional? :confused:


Yes Brendan, this thread was obviously targeted towards the Mann Orchard contest. The reason I was vague on who specifically, was because I wanted to discuss the principle's and ideal's in regards to some one of your experience level entering a contest that seemed to be promoted and geared to an amatuer or newby in the world of competition bbq. Obviously, it didn't evolve that way.

I understand your reasoning behind using your catering company name, but I'm just saying how it looks in the big picture to those that don't know that you have two seperate affiliations and find out after the fact.

Like I said, hopefully next years contest won't leave any room for missinterpretation on any ones part.

Meat Burner
05-29-2011, 12:06 PM
Transformer BBQ is a PROFESSIONAL and cannot go have fun anymore. Pass it on.

watertowerbbq
05-29-2011, 12:51 PM
Yes Brendan, this thread was obviously targeted towards the Mann Orchard contest. The reason I was vague on who specifically, was because I wanted to discuss the principle's and ideal's in regards to some one of your experience level entering a contest that seemed to be promoted and geared to an amatuer or newby in the world of competition bbq. Obviously, it didn't evolve that way.

I understand your reasoning behind using your catering company name, but I'm just saying how it looks in the big picture to those that don't know that you have two seperate affiliations and find out after the fact.

Like I said, hopefully next years contest won't leave any room for missinterpretation on any ones part.
From reading your posts, it seems you are more upset about this than your friend. Perhaps I missed it, but if it bothered your friend so much, why didn't he confront the organizer immediately, ask for a refund and go home? Did anyone demand a refund and go home? It sounds like they were ok competing against a caterer and not against a KCBS experienced team. I figure if you are good enough to have a catering business, you probably can cook some good food, so it's hard to understand why they are mad..........other than they didn't win.

CarolinaQue
05-29-2011, 01:46 PM
From reading your posts, it seems you are more upset about this than your friend. Perhaps I missed it, but if it bothered your friend so much, why didn't he confront the organizer immediately, ask for a refund and go home? Did anyone demand a refund and go home? It sounds like they were ok competing against a caterer and not against a KCBS experienced team. I figure if you are good enough to have a catering business, you probably can cook some good food, so it's hard to understand why they are mad..........other than they didn't win.


He doesn't have a catering company, Brendan does. My friend has approached the organizer. There was no entry fee, so there is nothing to get back in that regard.

Q-Dat
05-29-2011, 01:48 PM
I have not competed in an IBCA contest yet, but it is my understanding that there is no separation between "amateur" and "pro" and that you can expect to see every level of cook at these events.

If the contest makes no distinction between the two then I can't see a problem with anybody competing.

However, if a team with a Jambo Pit and several GC's under their belts decides to roll into some small towns fundraiser event with the intention of showing up the locals and walking away with an easy win then that is out of line IMHO. I don't think that was the intention of Brother Transformer.

I do see the point of both arguments though.

ssbbqguy
05-29-2011, 03:59 PM
I still do not see the point.Where is there a distinction of who or who wasn't allowed. Me, I welcome competition from any level. It has made me better in any field that I used that logic in. I also am not too proud to ask thorough, pertinent questions of those who have more knowledge than myself. If you want to rewrite history, which you can't, I'd say Quit whining and start practicing. Steve.

YankeeBBQ
05-29-2011, 05:18 PM
Here's the online advertisement for the contest:

http://www.mannorchards.com/index.php?p=2_15




From the Ad it looks like a contest run by Amateurs not some professional organization. It does say it's an amateur smokeoff not a smokeoff for amateur's. Looks like fun I think I will cook it next year. I sure could use a new pellet cooker :becky: (just like the one in my avatar)

YankeeBBQ
05-29-2011, 05:29 PM
Like I said, hopefully next years contest won't leave any room for missinterpretation on any ones part.

Yeah hopefully they institute a no Whining Rule. Of course it will have to apply to the competitors and "their friends"

Dankster
05-29-2011, 05:50 PM
Here's my dos centavos...

Yesterday, I cooked in my first comp, the Red, White, and BBQ, in Westmont, IL, a KCBS event. I cooked on the "amateur" side of things. I had a farging blast: met some real cool folks, learned A LOT, and really raised the bar for me, and my expectations of my food.

I have NO problem with a "pro" competing against me. Why would I? Let's see...I saw the way the folks who've done this before came more prepared. I saw all the different equipment folks use. I chatted with many good cooks. I cooked ABT's, burgers, etc on my kettle, which passer-bys ate, and complimented me on (felt great!). I could go on.

Really, what I'm saying is, my competition taught me volumes yesterday without saying a word. Were there any "pros" on the am side? Don't know, don't care; we all got an identical, numbered box, to turn in for judging. Seems fair to me.

Did I win, place, or show? No. But I didn't have any grandiose expectations, I was out there to get my feet wet, show 'em what I got, and most of all, HAVE SOME FUN!

I accomplished all the three. And my neighbor who helped me lug things and whatnot, is now SOLD on bbq, and bbq events; he can't wait for next year, and I don't think he's gonna cook!

We ARE cooking for fun, a hobby, correct?

And in reality, I think the "pros" (my definition of a bbq pro is someone who buys a rig that's not your typical backyard que, competes often, perhaps has sold their food, etc) would be more pizzed off at the "amateurs" who enter, and win on the pro KCBS side, cooking on some drum they made. But do they, I don't know, but I doubt it. It's all about the food you submit, and I believe anyone can win on any given day, be it a drum, FEC, or kettle.

In addition, really, is not winning the couple of bucks really not gonna pay your bills this month? If that's the case, you're better off buying a lottery ticket.

sitnfat
05-29-2011, 06:47 PM
You should probably stay in your backyard if cooking against someone that has competed at a higher level bothers or offends you. I have friends that cook in the backyard category that I hoped don't move up, I compete against big teams all the time I take the opportunity to observe and talk to them when I can. You should do the same just sayin!

Crash
05-29-2011, 07:04 PM
The key is knowing when to let a thread die. At this point, it's just plain embarrassing.

AZScott
05-29-2011, 07:09 PM
The key is knowing when to let a thread die. At this point, it's just plain embarrassing.

Amen.

Podge
05-29-2011, 08:00 PM
I got in an ametuer contest in July '07, as a favor for a freind, and got my a$$ handed to me !

Q-Dat
05-29-2011, 08:57 PM
I DONT KNOW WHY WE'RE YELLING!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Steve Carell is the man.

butt head
05-29-2011, 09:22 PM
:pop2:

Lake Dogs
05-29-2011, 09:35 PM
:pop2:

DUDE! Brethren commandment 324: Never bring popcorn without bringing enough to share!

crd26a
05-29-2011, 09:44 PM
There was no entry fee, so there is nothing to get back in that regard.

Wait. No entry fee and you / your friend have gotten your panties in a wad over an amateur / backyard event. Not to mention, from the Mann website
"This BBQ smoke off is open to all amateur and professional barbeques in our area. "

Way to blow things out of proprtion. Sorry your milk got spilled

Jorge
05-29-2011, 09:52 PM
Does your friend have a computer?

EDIT: Let him lead the charge if he chooses. At this point, it appears to me that you are just trying to stir the pot or are unwilling/able to let it die.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

redneck cooker
05-30-2011, 01:03 PM
Isnt this getting totally out of perportion!!:tsk::shocked:, If you cant cook with the big dogs ...stay home..:becky:

Dr_KY
05-30-2011, 01:06 PM
Does your friend have a computer?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
...or an iPhone using Tapatalk?


Sorry just thought I would bring some fun back home.
Doc

Jorge
05-30-2011, 01:20 PM
...or an iPhone using Tapatalk?


Sorry just thought I would bring some fun back home.
Doc

:becky::becky: Hoist a pint with the blokes for me :becky::becky:

Sawdustguy
05-30-2011, 02:49 PM
We have been cooking competively for 6 years. Our first contest was a KCBS sanctioned event. We dove right in and did not have the benefit of an amatuer contest to prepare ourselves with. We have never won a contest, although we have come very close a few times (RGC). We run a tidy site, conduct ourselves accordingly and are always willing to lend a hand if asked. We cook for fun. We are a family team that do this to spend a weekend of fun together. Would you consider us professional?

If you took RGC in a sanctioned contest, I would not consider you an amatuer, that's for sure!!!

Here's a question for you. Now that you've placed and won a few awards, would you enter a contest listed as amatuer?

Absolutely! We got lucky a couple of times. We consider ourselves an amatuer team that likes to gauge ourselves against the best competition we can find. We obviously are not in it for the money. We are not even in the same league as some of the teams we have competed against. How are you going to hit big league pitching if you have never faced a big league pitcher.

Sweet Breathe BBQ
05-31-2011, 02:05 PM
I am not going to beat the dead horse, but rather speak to the event, b/c I would hate to see someone get a bad impression b/c of this thread. We competed at Mann last year and had a blast, it was only our 2nd or 3rd event and we were looking to get experience, which we did. We had a great time, and I think that's all that matters. We went in with the expectation that there would be some more accomplished teams there b/c it was advertised on the NEBS website and on the Mann site as professional/amature. Regardless you couldn't beat the price...free and the organizers were great hosts, loved the apple crisp. I gathered it was meant to be fun, and more laid back that your traditional sanctioned contests. We might have participated again were it not the weekend before Rochester and a fair distance for us to travel. Its a great early season event that allows you to turn in the more traditional meats.

Congrats to the winners, and thanks to the organizers for putting on a great event. Please keep it up.

SmokeInDaEye
05-31-2011, 02:32 PM
This is the stupidest debate I have ever read. Cook your best, take your lumps when you lose the first few times out just as all of us did and either quit or come back stronger the next time because of it.

You're talking like you're a baby holding a plastic teeball bat in a home run hitting contest against Barry Bonds*.

SmokeInDaEye
05-31-2011, 02:36 PM
Transformers, congrats on the win. Will you be defending your title next year? :boxing:

Not if I show up. (let the 2012 Trash Talking Tawk Begin!).

BBQ Grail
05-31-2011, 04:33 PM
You're talking like you're a baby holding a plastic teeball bat in a home run hitting contest against Barry Bonds*.


Okay, did someone use "the clear" as a pork butt injection? Now that would be unfair.

HarleyEarl
05-31-2011, 07:12 PM
Wow, I can't believe I actually wasted my time reading through this embarrassing thread by whining about a friend's contest experience and thinking that all this time and effort debating who is classified as a professional vs. amateur. All this while some of YOUR BRETHREN were being true, giving BBQ Professionals whether or not they compete, organize, judge, or just support our hobby/sport/profession. If you are in the dark, check out this dying thread on this forum: http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=107198 OR those of you that have a FB account can check out this link (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Operation-BBQ-Relief-for-Joplin/166140806782807) - start at the beginning and work your way up.

Flame me all you want, I will not respond to any posts relating to this thread. Just try to put this past week in perspective.