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habaneromike
05-22-2011, 10:46 AM
:noidea:What is the best way to hold a brisket in a Cambro for competition for four (4) hours?
With my past experience, I end up with a lukewarm brisket that is tough and dry based on competition standards as well as mine and…is it possible to have a moist brisket that is around 150 degrees)?

I have received the following answers from other competitors: (this is based on foil wrapped Brisket)
- Pull at 195 and through straight in Cambro
- Pull early and let it finish cooking in Cambro
- Let it stay out of cooker in foil (not vented) for about 10 min than put in Cambro
- Vent for 5 degrees then re-foil and put in Cambro
- cook to 202 Cut an large (X) at the top of the foil until brisket drops 10 degrees then put in Cambro

Any help are suggestions or would be extremely helpful as this is a big problem for me! Maybe the trick is to reheat?

Ford
05-22-2011, 11:03 AM
If I put 2 briskets into a cambro that are 195F - 201 F and do not vent the foil then they will be mush in 4 hours in the cambro if it is sealed.

The cambro has a guarantee to hold temp for 4 hours so meat at 195 should still be 195 in 4 hours.

ThomEmery
05-22-2011, 11:34 AM
A hot fire brick can add to your hold time
Yes you need to vent the foil prior to placing brisket in the cambro

habaneromike
05-22-2011, 12:00 PM
What is the difference between a brick and a fire brick? Where do you get one and I assume you have to heat it up first? If so do you keep it in the cooker with the meat so it’s hot?

Thanks,
Mike

habaneromike
05-22-2011, 12:01 PM
If I put 2 briskets into a cambro that are 195F - 201 F and do not vent the foil then they will be mush in 4 hours in the cambro if it is sealed.

The cambro has a guarantee to hold temp for 4 hours so meat at 195 should still be 195 in 4 hours.

But is you mush moist? I am actually serious about this question.

Ford
05-22-2011, 12:33 PM
But is you mush moist? I am actually serious about this question.
certainly is. Of course a lot depends on what goes in the foil when wrapping. you need about 8 oz of liquid.

It makes OK chopped brisket after it's unwrapped and firms up a bit but no way you can slice it.

Bourbon Barrel BBQ
05-22-2011, 12:47 PM
I cook to 205 in a foil covered pan. When it goes in the cambro I vent the foil and leave the cambro door cracked. Comes out pretty good 4 hours later.

redneck cooker
05-22-2011, 01:31 PM
I put my brisket in the cambro rite off the pit whenits done, I leave the foil on the pan, no vent and it always perfert..

thillin
05-22-2011, 02:11 PM
I put my brisket in the cambro rite off the pit whenits done, I leave the foil on the pan, no vent and it always perfert..

Ditto for me as well.

ThomEmery
05-22-2011, 02:56 PM
What is the difference between a brick and a fire brick? Where do you get one and I assume you have to heat it up first? If so do you keep it in the cooker with the meat so its hot?

Thanks,
Mike


The bricks one would use on the inside of a fireplace are different
in their make up I am told
We lined our pit with them and have seen a marked improvement in performance


as to venting wrapped briskets
may be two different dynamics at play here
wrapped in foil and paned then foil covered

I certainly would defer on the subject of briskets to the Texas boys

redneck cooker
05-22-2011, 03:06 PM
paned then foil covered :becky:...that what im talking bout!!

ThomEmery
05-22-2011, 03:10 PM
See you in Fort Worth

Red Valley BBQ
05-22-2011, 09:04 PM
Foil gets opened when the brisket comes out of the pit at 195-200* for 10 or 15 mins to help stop/slow down the cooking process. Then it gets rewrapped and placed in the cambro. Have never taken the temp after it being in the cambro for 4+ hours, but it is definitely too hot to handle without heat resistant mitts of some sort.

roksmith
05-23-2011, 06:15 AM
If the brisket is the only thing in the cambro, that might explain why the temp drops so rapidly. A cold cambro can allow the temp to drop a bit when only a single chunk of meat goes in by itself. One simple way to prevent heat loss is to prime the cambro first by pouring several gallons of hot water in there first and letting it sit for an hour or so. Then just empty it just before the brisket goes in.

habaneromike
05-23-2011, 09:36 AM
If the brisket is the only thing in the cambro, that might explain why the temp drops so rapidly. A cold cambro can allow the temp to drop a bit when only a single chunk of meat goes in by itself. One simple way to prevent heat loss is to prime the cambro first by pouring several gallons of hot water in there first and letting it sit for an hour or so. Then just empty it just before the brisket goes in.

This is great information that I do not pay attention to and is so obvious. I guess if the Cambro is not primed it could suck the heat right out of the brisket as it equalizes. Thinking back, I think I have seen small temp gauges on some Cambroes at the events. :icon_blush:

Jacked UP BBQ
05-23-2011, 09:41 AM
Why would you cook a brisket and be done 4 hours early? What about putting it one a few hours later? I never cambro any meats, cambros IMO are for catering and thats all.

Bourbon Barrel BBQ
05-23-2011, 09:48 AM
Why would you cook a brisket and be done 4 hours early? What about putting it one a few hours later? I never cambro any meats, cambros IMO are for catering and thats all.

If you have a limited amount of space in your cooker you may have to get some of the big cuts off early and hold them while the ribs and chicken are on.

redneck cooker
05-23-2011, 09:48 AM
Why would you cook a brisket and be done 4 hours early? What about putting it one a few hours later? I never cambro any meats, cambros IMO are for catering and thats all.


I like my comp briskets to "rest" for a couple hours before slicing...:becky:

habaneromike
05-23-2011, 10:11 AM
Why would you cook a brisket and be done 4 hours early? What about putting it one a few hours later? I never cambro any meats, cambros IMO are for catering and thats all.

I cook with two WSM's so I have to use the same WSM as I cook the big meats on is relit for Chicken and to play it safe, I need to leave some wiggle room. Chicken with prep and everything that goes with it is about 2.5 hrs.

This does leave me with one question at home what would be the optimum way to let the meat sit and relax before carving? I normally vent for 10 degrees and let sit in the Cambro for an hour but.. not sure if this is the best way.

Jacked UP BBQ
05-23-2011, 11:00 AM
Keeping at holding temp of 150-195 is not resting. It is holding, the juices are still flowing at those temps. So actually holding that long in a cambro dries the inside of the meat out more. We have tested this many times.

roksmith
05-23-2011, 12:18 PM
We too like ours to sit in the cambro for at least a couple hours prior to slicing.. just goes to show that there's more than one way to produce winning brisket.

Dan - 3eyzbbq
05-23-2011, 12:36 PM
Keeping at holding temp of 150-195 is not resting. It is holding, the juices are still flowing at those temps. So actually holding that long in a cambro dries the inside of the meat out more. We have tested this many times.

So, IF you screwed up and had to hold meat for a couple hours what would you do? Just let it sit out?

Jacked UP BBQ
05-23-2011, 03:02 PM
So, IF you screwed up and had to hold meat for a couple hours what would you do? Just let it sit out?

100% let it sit out, and release steam. let it actually rest. My goal is to not let it get done too early, but my brisket in annaoplis sat on the counter for 2 hours.

sonicstimuli
05-23-2011, 04:39 PM
So if you need that 4 hour window due to space constraints on your cooker, is the better move to pull at your finish temp and leave at a holding temp in the Cambro or is it smarter to pull the brisket a couple hours early and leave sealed in a hot Cambro to truly finish cooking?

Jacked UP BBQ
05-23-2011, 04:57 PM
All I can say as far as using the cambro to cook. BAD IDEA

DawgPhan
05-23-2011, 07:50 PM
100% let it sit out, and release steam. let it actually rest. My goal is to not let it get done too early, but my brisket in annaoplis sat on the counter for 2 hours.


surprised the food safety police havent jumped on this....

boogiesnap
05-23-2011, 09:14 PM
surprised the food safety police havent jumped on this....

are you just sayin' or sounding the alarm?

i've been tipped, that some VERY highly successful teams(as well as jacked up)also use this method.

i haven't tried myself, so can't say, but, how long would it take for a 10# pc of meat, lightly wrapped, to drop from 200 plus degrees to below 140?

i'm guessing, quite a while.

now, i'm just sayin'.

Jacked UP BBQ
05-23-2011, 09:20 PM
surprised the food safety police havent jumped on this....

Food police jump on what a 200 degree piece of meat sitting wrapped up well over temp danger zone? My sanitation and food safety is top notch, please dont question that. Health departments thank me at events we cook out of our vending site. There are MUCH BIGGER sanitation issues at comps, like porta potties and people taking a leak and walking back to there site with no handwash, which I have with HOT WATER. There is nothing unsanitary about that.

Jacked UP BBQ
05-23-2011, 09:25 PM
Also Dawgphan I rarely finish my brisket 2 hours early

DawgPhan
05-24-2011, 08:42 AM
Food police jump on what a 200 degree piece of meat sitting wrapped up well over temp danger zone? My sanitation and food safety is top notch, please dont question that. Health departments thank me at events we cook out of our vending site. There are MUCH BIGGER sanitation issues at comps, like porta potties and people taking a leak and walking back to there site with no handwash, which I have with HOT WATER. There is nothing unsanitary about that.


So the health department would thank you for allowing ready to serve food to sit on a counter for 2 hours?

Nice strawman with the handwashing though...

Q. "The instructions on the ham said it would take about 4 hours to cook, but the thermometer read 160 F after 3 hours. The problem is that we won't be eating for another 2 hours. Can I leave it out on the counter covered with foil?"

A. That's not a good idea. Bacteria that cause foodborne illness can contaminate safely cooked food left out at room temperature. Scientists have found that after 2 hours at room temperature, bacteria can multiply on foods to high enough levels to cause illness. Since the ham will be out extra time for carving and serving, it's better to cover it and keep it in a 200 F oven until you're ready to serve it. Check the ham with a food thermometer to make sure it doesn't go below an internal temperature of 140 F while it's in the oven.


http://www.fsis.usda.gov/factsheets/Hotline_Answers_Panic_Button_Questions/index.asp

:boink:

CBQ
05-24-2011, 08:49 AM
If you need to rest it for a couple of hours like Jacked Up, wrap it in a towel or a moving blanket, that's good enough. Large meats like a brisket or pork butt will stay hot for four hours like this.

If you have a lonely brisket in a Cambro by itself, and you need to hold it for a long time, Cambro makes an insulated shelf that slides in like a tray and reduces the amount of open space. You can hold a single piece of meat a long time this way. Pull it out when you start adding more stuff to the Cambro. (It's also useful if you want to load a lot of stuff in the Cambro and you don't want newly added hot meats to start cooking stuff that's already there.)

http://cool.cambro.com/ThermoBarriers_Temperature_Maintenance_Tools_Insul ated_Transport.ashx

Jacked UP BBQ
05-24-2011, 09:47 AM
So the health department would thank you for allowing ready to serve food to sit on a counter for 2 hours?

Nice strawman with the handwashing though...




http://www.fsis.usda.gov/factsheets/Hotline_Answers_Panic_Button_Questions/index.asp

:boink:


Obviuosly you are not up to date on your sanitation rules. Do you know anything about the two stage cooling method? If so two hours on a counter wrapped up would be no problem at all with the HD. But back to a cambro, they are not made for resting meats. But if you need one, I guess that is your best bet.

INmitch
05-24-2011, 10:00 AM
I have 2 28 qt coolers I keep meat in. I pull them off the smoker n straight to the cooler (not unwrapping). 1 cooler for briskets (2 flats and a point) and the other for 2 butts. I've never noticed any continuous cooking after that. They are usually in the coolers 3-5 hrs.

DawgPhan
05-24-2011, 10:47 AM
Obviuosly you are not up to date on your sanitation rules. Do you know anything about the two stage cooling method? If so two hours on a counter wrapped up would be no problem at all with the HD. But back to a cambro, they are not made for resting meats. But if you need one, I guess that is your best bet.


awww...that's cute, you sure do love a strawman...Anyway, the process you described isnt a "two stage cooling method". That would mean that after your 2 hours of sitting on the counter, which isn't a part of the process anyway, you then further chilled the brisket to 70-41 degrees.

http://www.ksda.gov/includes/document_center/food_safety/Food_Safety/49TwoStageCooling.pdf

Reminder: Food should not be left out on the counter to cool under any circumstances.

Two stage cooling does not mean leaving it on the counter for 2 hours.

I dont doubt that lots of folks do it. I am sure that it also happens before the meat is cooked. Everyone is going to do what they feel is safe and gives them the best chance to win, but the HD isnt going to bless leaving ready to eat food sitting on a counter for 2 hours.

DawgPhan
05-24-2011, 11:06 AM
So I thought...well maybe things are different in Ocean County, so I called.

http://www.ochd.org/

Said I had a food safety question. Said I had cooked a large roast and it was done a little early and we wouldnt be eating for 2 hours. Spoke with a nice fellow, Ken Wenrich, who suggested that I hold the roast in my oven @ 140 or so until it was time to eat. That leaving it on the counter probably wasnt the best idea.

I think that the point is that a cambro is a holding cabinet and will probably hold your meat at whatever temp you put it in at. Resting and holding are not the same things and aren't interchangeable. Holding is probably what you want to do if you are finished 4 hours early. Resting is what you want to do before you slice up your brisket or pull your pork.

Jacked UP BBQ
05-24-2011, 12:23 PM
WOW you are a bored person. Nothing different about the two stage. The two stage cooling method in a USDA certified is a real process that has nothing to do with an HD guy who only took the same servsafe test as you. What I am saying is if they allow to have meat sit out to get to 70 degrees, there is nothing wrong with a brisket sitting on a counter wrapped for two hours. Back to the point again, cambros are for catering.

Dan - 3eyzbbq
05-24-2011, 12:30 PM
:pop2:

redneck cooker
05-24-2011, 01:11 PM
All I can say as far as using the cambro to cook. BAD IDEA



I dont agree, at all, been using one for yrs....:crazy:

Jacked UP BBQ
05-24-2011, 01:22 PM
I dont agree, at all, been using one for yrs....:crazy:


Whatever works for you. I answered a question and obviously offended the cambro lovers! hahahaha:thumb: Keep the cambro going if it works for you. I stated my opinion. Somehow it turned into a sanitation course. Cambro on redneck!

redneck cooker
05-24-2011, 01:27 PM
Whatever works for you. I answered a question and obviously offended the cambro lovers! hahahaha:thumb: Keep the cambro going if it works for you. I stated my opinion. Somehow it turned into a sanitation course. Cambro on redneck!



Thank ya, thank ya verrry muchhh!!
:becky::becky::whoo:

offended? never.....lol..

Smokedelic
05-24-2011, 01:46 PM
Keeping at holding temp of 150-195 is not resting. It is holding, the juices are still flowing at those temps. So actually holding that long in a cambro dries the inside of the meat out more. We have tested this many times.
So if the meat is sitting in a Cambro @ 150-195 the juices are flowing, but if the meat is sitting on the counter @150-195 the juices staying in the meat?:confused:

Jacked UP BBQ
05-24-2011, 01:56 PM
So if the meat is sitting in a Cambro @ 150-195 the juices are flowing, but if the meat is sitting on the counter @150-195 the juices staying in the meat?:confused:

Without giving it all away of what we do, we dont get drippings to make au jus............To answer your question....yes. There is a reason for resting meat. But if a cambro works for your method go with it. Doesnt work for ours. Cook a 20 oz porterhouse and take it to 130 internal and cut immediately and see what happens, take another and cook the same and let sit on counter for 10 minutes cut and no juices will be lost.

DawgPhan
05-24-2011, 02:19 PM
WOW you are a bored person. Nothing different about the two stage. The two stage cooling method in a USDA certified is a real process that has nothing to do with an HD guy who only took the same servsafe test as you. What I am saying is if they allow to have meat sit out to get to 70 degrees, there is nothing wrong with a brisket sitting on a counter wrapped for two hours. Back to the point again, cambros are for catering.


The problem is that they dont allow meat sitting out to cool to 70 degrees. There isnt a process for cooling that includes sitting on a counter. Not for USDA, KSDA, or in Ocean County. I think that you might have misunderstood what the two step process actually entails, but it doesnt include sitting on the counter. I posted a USDA article that says you can let it sit on the counter for 2 hours, a KSDA pdf saying meat can't be left on the counter and I called your local HD that also said meat shouldnt be left on the counter to cool. No one is going to sanction or bless leaving meat on the counter to cool, rest, or hold.

I dont think that leaving it on the counter for 2 hours is dangerous if the brisket was handled properly up until that point, but you saying that the USDA allows for ready to serve food to sit out for 2 hours is wrong.

Jacked UP BBQ
05-24-2011, 02:24 PM
I know what the two step entails. My point is that if they allow it in their temprature and timing to be out of the safety zone for 6 hours, two hours on the counter is safe. Do I agree its not by the book, yes. But do I think anyone will get sick, 100% not.

But cambors are still for catering! IMO!

DawgPhan
05-24-2011, 02:27 PM
I know what the two step entails. My point is that if they allow it in their temprature and timing to be out of the safety zone for 6 hours, two hours on the counter is safe. Do I agree its not by the book, yes. But do I think anyone will get sick, 100% not.

But cambors are still for catering! IMO!

then we agree.

wasnt that fun.

But if someone combines the 2 hours on the counter with 2 hours to "warm up" before cooking and a nice long 215-225 cook you might be running into some issues.

habaneromike
05-24-2011, 03:29 PM
Why would you cook a brisket and be done 4 hours early? What about putting it one a few hours later? I never cambro any meats, cambros IMO are for catering and thats all.

Holly cow.... I am more confused than ever.

What I got from this is resting the brisket for an hr per say is king; just like resting any meat but it is bigger.

So the question is if you measure the temperature of the brisket after it has rested lets say 170 that is what you want when you slice i.e., 170*.

All I can say is when I probe after it has been in the Cambro the brisket is cooler and it take more probing pressure vs. coming off the pit.

Maybe the trick is letting it rest before to stop cooling and after to soften up as long as it is above 170*

Heck I will just get a third Q and be done with it :)

habaneromike
05-25-2011, 12:24 AM
Holy cow.... I am more confused than ever.

What I got from this is resting the brisket for an hr per say is king; just like resting any meat but it is bigger.

So the question is if you measure the temperature of the brisket after it has rested lets say 170 that is what you want when you slice i.e., 170*.

All I can say is when I probe after it has been in the Cambro the brisket is cooler and it take more probing pressure vs. coming off the pit.

Maybe the trick is letting it rest before to stop cooling and after to soften up as long as it is above 170*

Heck I will just get a third Q and be done with it :)[/QUOTE]

Smokesman
05-25-2011, 10:01 AM
Sorry your confused - everyone on here has a method that through trial and error works for them - there really is no right or wrong way - just your way! I know for a fact that many top teams after a short cool down "rest" their brisket in a cooler or cambro for 2 to 3 hours before turn-in. No one is going to ruin or turn a brisket to mush by holding it for a few hours - if it is mush coming out of the cambro then it was overcooked going in. We wrap all our large cuts in plastic to hold everything close and toss them in the cambro fat side up - well before turn-in they go back on the smoker to firm up the bark and for glazing then they rest uncovered on the table while we prepare the turn-in box.

SmokinGuitarPlayer
05-26-2011, 01:59 PM
I read this extended thread with much interest as we recently starting using a cambro. One question keeps coming into my mind ... There are a LOT of references to internal temp of the meat on this thread but ...where on the brisket are you reading the temp ? Point or Flat?

thillin
05-27-2011, 11:07 PM
I read this extended thread with much interest as we recently starting using a cambro. One question keeps coming into my mind ... There are a LOT of references to internal temp of the meat on this thread but ...where on the brisket are you reading the temp ? Point or Flat?


Thickest part of the flat is where I check.